Do you believe that Obama's birth certificate is real (84)
jac379: And that is what I was trying to establish. Why someone else might have a problem, where I don't.
That's why I expressed my thoughts. It gives others a point, or some points, of reference to explain to me their own rationale within a framework I can relate to...and vice versa.
Do you think democratic leaders are honest?
That's why I expressed my thoughts. It gives others a point, or some points, of reference to explain to me their own rationale within a framework I can relate to...and vice versa.
Do you think democratic leaders are honest?
The point in this debate Jac is that of BO is NOT an American Citizen by birthright or adoption the it might be an indication that there is 'some machination' occurred behind the scenes and if that is the case then there's a serious question about the entire USA Democratic Election process ... apart from the computerised vote rigging etc etc etc
Presidents are disposable parrots.
They are used for a few years and then replaced.
One of their most important functions, particularly in their second term, is to accomplish all the unpopular measures that the ruling elite want to inflict upon the populous, and then to leave office with as much blame as possible. Thereby paving the way for the new Resident to come in and continue the farce with some degree of initial support.
They are used for a few years and then replaced.
One of their most important functions, particularly in their second term, is to accomplish all the unpopular measures that the ruling elite want to inflict upon the populous, and then to leave office with as much blame as possible. Thereby paving the way for the new Resident to come in and continue the farce with some degree of initial support.
jac379: In what way do you think Obama is not 'real'?
What makes you say he is that unsavoury character that most people of colour despise?
How do you think he has succeeded in moving people of colour into the ages of darkness?
What makes you say he is that unsavoury character that most people of colour despise?
How do you think he has succeeded in moving people of colour into the ages of darkness?
or this
or this
I could give a goats behind whether or not Obama's birth certificate is real or not.
Can anymore prove without a doubt that their own BR is absolute?
Heck mine could be wrong.
Can anymore prove without a doubt that their own BR is absolute?
Heck mine could be wrong.
Ccincy: I could give a goats behind whether or not Obama's birth certificate is real or not.Can anymore prove without a doubt that their own BR is absolute?Heck mine could be wrong.
I can.
The parchment paper it's on is about to fall apart
And, I have had reason to get a version of it on modern paper and all the information is the same as the original parchment paper version
So yes, I am who I say I am.
bodleing:
Sometimes I suspect people feel threatened by jac's straight forward no nonsense approach, especially many males on here.
Sometimes I suspect people feel threatened by jac's straight forward no nonsense approach, especially many males on here.
The entire opposite, is what it is....
MADDOG69: The entire opposite, is what it is....
Its easy to act straight forward while looking for a side door.
Jac is so far left she has a 30 degree list to port
Checkers101: Its easy to act straight forward while looking for a side door.
Jac is so far left she has a 30 degree list to port
Jac is so far left she has a 30 degree list to port
Anyway, he was probably born in Hawaii, his Birth Cert might be fake though.
MADDOG69: Anyway, he was probably born in Hawaii, his Birth Cert might be fake though.
Leo_7: i dont really care about obama and his birth certificate
Who cares!
HexagonKeySet: The point in this debate Jac is that of BO is NOT an American Citizen by birthright or adoption the it might be an indication that there is 'some machination' occurred behind the scenes and if that is the case then there's a serious question about the entire USA Democratic Election process ... apart from the computerised vote rigging etc etc etc
Is it?
Only I was following the argument that Checkers himself proposed a few posts in:
Checkers101: Its relevant because if he wasnt born in the US his presidency is ILLEGAL along with all his wars.
So its not just about the legality of Obama's presidency, its about the consequences of that potential illegality, specifically from Checker's point of view, the justification of war.
As I understand it, there was a war going on before Obama was elected as president, a war that he inherited along with the position.
As I understand it, one of the reasons many people voted for Obama was the belief that he would take action to reduce military involvement, rather than escalate it as the opposition appeared to favour.
Had someone stood for election with policies suggesting the war was totally unjust and the intention was immediate withdrawal from the conflict on gaining office, what would the likelihood have been that person would have been voted into office? I suspect zero, so voting options in the US appear to be much like they are here - one votes for the party most likely to move towards ones own belief system without expecting ones own wishes to be completely fulfilled, or indeed that would be practical, or sensible within the time scale of office.
In terms of reducing involvement in conflict, what would be the consequences of removing the president based upon a technicality relating to the war being unjust? As I see it, removing Obama on a technicality will not instantly stop the war and depending upon who came into office after him, it could actually be escalated.
If the justness of the war is at issue, it seems totally illogical to me to do anything other than tackle the justness of the war directly, if the aim is to demonstrate the war is unjust.
Exactly ,My old employe listened his Crying Voice when he born ..Uwaaaa..Uwaaaa.....
To this day I will never understand this accusation or who it was that started this conspiracy theory (My best guess is Donald Trump or maybe Rush Limbaugh). No matter what you do in the public there will always be that group of people that scream cover up. Some people just don't like to accept reality for what it is and thus make up all kinds of conspiracy theories in order to satisfy themselves.
O's BC presented is absolutely fabricated document. That has, beyond a doubt, been proven forensically. Opinions don't matter in this case. It is scientific fact.
Doubts about his birth records are also documented in research on the hospital records where he was supposedly born and on his university records as well as statements from Kenyans. Opinion has no weight on this case.
Facts are facts, opinions are often full of wind.
Doubts about his birth records are also documented in research on the hospital records where he was supposedly born and on his university records as well as statements from Kenyans. Opinion has no weight on this case.
Facts are facts, opinions are often full of wind.
PJ1961: O's BC presented is absolutely fabricated document. That has, beyond a doubt, been proven forensically. Opinions don't matter in this case. It is scientific fact.
Doubts about his birth records are also documented in research on the hospital records where he was supposedly born and on his university records as well as statements from Kenyans. Opinion has no weight on this case.
Facts are facts, opinions are often full of wind.
He can't shout it to the World that Frank Marshall is his Pa,now,could he?Doubts about his birth records are also documented in research on the hospital records where he was supposedly born and on his university records as well as statements from Kenyans. Opinion has no weight on this case.
Facts are facts, opinions are often full of wind.
RayfromUSA: oops, I hit the button by mistake above before responding to Jac's questions.
In what ways is Obama not "real"?
In what ways is Obama not "real"?
Ray is an incredibly good example of how a US citizen can achieve greater awareness of truth, a real man of honest and accurate thought on WTF is really going down.
Conrad73: He can't shout it to the World that Frank Marshall is his Pa,now,could he?
Of course not... ya know, sometimes... sometimes I think : this whole thing is a Soros deal. 
PJ1961: Of course not... ya know, sometimes... sometimes I think : this whole thing is a Soros deal.
Obamy's Sugarpop!
I wonder how many birthers get their facts through chain emails and heresay. I have found no articles mentioning forensic testings and testimony saying it was forged. This came from chain emails and random comments on conservative outlets liek FOX news, infowards and Rush Limbaugh (I can ask the Westboro Baptist Church if they think he is the Antichrist disguised as a Muslim and they would totally agree with me).
baronobeefdip: http://www.politifact.com/subjects/obama-birth-certificate/
funny how George Soros' Shadow looms over PolitiFact!baronobeefdip: I wonder how many birthers get their facts through chain emails and heresay. I have found no articles mentioning forensic testings and testimony saying it was forged. This came from chain emails and random comments on conservative outlets liek FOX news, infowards and Rush Limbaugh (I can ask the Westboro Baptist Church if they think he is the Antichrist disguised as a Muslim and they would totally agree with me).
jajajajaja! so silly. Do you know the name of the Arizona Sheriff who leads the investigation? Apparently not.
baronobeefdip: I wonder how many birthers get their facts through chain emails and heresay. I have found no articles mentioning forensic testings and testimony saying it was forged. This came from chain emails and random comments on conservative outlets liek FOX news, infowards and Rush Limbaugh (I can ask the Westboro Baptist Church if they think he is the Antichrist disguised as a Muslim and they would totally agree with me).
and, jaja, since when is it possible for a church to offer divine truth on politics? Not even politicians can do that. what a joke. I love it when people ignore the facts.baronobeefdip: I wonder how many birthers get their facts through chain emails and heresay. I have found no articles mentioning forensic testings and testimony saying it was forged. This came from chain emails and random comments on conservative outlets liek FOX news, infowards and Rush Limbaugh (I can ask the Westboro Baptist Church if they think he is the Antichrist disguised as a Muslim and they would totally agree with me).
here you go, misinformed sweetie, try searching these words: sheriff joe arpaio obama forensic
PJ1961: here you go, misinformed sweetie, try searching these words: sheriff joe arpaio obama forensic
He is a republican so of course he would try to demonize it. Besides Google searching didn't turn up the names of the tests he ran in the investigation (things like microscopy, handwriting analysis, and linguistics. although handwriting analysis would not be an ideal test since the author of the document in question wasn't identifiable. this doesn't prove fraudulence) and all conclusions are based off of small anomalies (still skeptikal, small anomalies tend to ruin many trials due to lack of evidence). As a scientist I am not convinced due to lack of evidence that a reliable investigation even took place. Of course there will be anomalies of a computer generated when a paper is scanned these days. not only have scanners improved in quality but scanning programs also have built in functions that can clean up an image which would make it appear as if it was created on a computer. I have scanned an application fill in sheet before when I obtained it to sign up for attending the community college (they make you re-register if you miss a semester for some reason but I was still in the system) Needless to say it looked like it was created in infopath but in PDF format like I wanted it to. Colors are more vibrant and letters surprisingly more legible. A Siginature might even look like it was super imposed from another document that was signed onto the document in question. I have recreated this as illegal as it was and it is very difficult to make it convincing since the indicators are very obvious. I can't accept his testimony until I see his reports rather than hearing claims based on conjecture and someone enforce those claims dogmatically)
I have come back with some research of my own. Although I haven't found any mention of any conventional forensic testing (other than some random people in their basement doing tricks with photoshop which brings me to my point). I have gone over some of the evidence but none of which jumped out at me. The most compelling however was the B in OBAMA was digitally similar to that of another B in the document. It is said that phenomena like this rarely happens. Sometimes these kinds of things happen. Remember, rarely doesn't mean never. I'm getting to my point here about small anomalies being taken seriously could be mistaken as things in which there weren't. I have heard of a case that involved a man that was accused of killing his girlfriend (not unusual but this story is compelling). He had a left-front snaggle tooth and on the woman's body the bite mark also had a left-front snaggle tooth. Forensic investigators made him bite into a piece of Styrofoam and compared them to the bite marks on the body. They were photographically identical. The angle of the tooth and the length of which it stuck out from the rest of them. He was convicted of this crime with nothing to use as evidence other than odontological evidence. The examiner presented a video that shows the bite patterns of the man's teeth and the photograph of the bite mark on the woman's body. The jury bought it as being similar to the bite mark on the body. Later examinations of the body (some time after he was convicted) turned up hair that didn't match his ethnicity (mongoloid hairs, which correlate with Asians). Later forensic odontology examinations of the bite marks found that while the mans tooth was jutting outward from the rest of them, there was no separation of the mans tooth as opposed to the bite marks on the body. A one in a million chance of having teeth that were similar to another, later examinations showed some signs that they had been wrong. For your own opinions read the story about the wrongful conviction of Ray Krone. What makes this case relate to the accusations of obama's birth certificate false only shows that while similarities like this do occur in forensics, it doesn't mean that they are beyond impossible. Like the Krone case, a conclusion that came from offhand self-justification made from a small detail wrongfully convicted an innocent man. The Bs that appear similar on the photo of the birth certificate are nothing more than coincidences and someone's conjectured self-justified opinion make it appear false. To me it seems that Joe is out trying to demonize the president like a lot of other republicans. Besides small anomalies are considered more to be opinion than fact and aren't scientifically valid.
baronobeefdip: I have come back with some research of my own. Although I haven't found any mention of any conventional forensic testing (other than some random people in their basement doing tricks with photoshop which brings me to my point). I have gone over some of the evidence but none of which jumped out at me. The most compelling however was the B in OBAMA was digitally similar to that of another B in the document. It is said that phenomena like this rarely happens. Sometimes these kinds of things happen. Remember, rarely doesn't mean never. I'm getting to my point here about small anomalies being taken seriously could be mistaken as things in which there weren't. I have heard of a case that involved a man that was accused of killing his girlfriend (not unusual but this story is compelling). He had a left-front snaggle tooth and on the woman's body the bite mark also had a left-front snaggle tooth. Forensic investigators made him bite into a piece of Styrofoam and compared them to the bite marks on the body. They were photographically identical. The angle of the tooth and the length of which it stuck out from the rest of them. He was convicted of this crime with nothing to use as evidence other than odontological evidence. The examiner presented a video that shows the bite patterns of the man's teeth and the photograph of the bite mark on the woman's body. The jury bought it as being similar to the bite mark on the body. Later examinations of the body (some time after he was convicted) turned up hair that didn't match his ethnicity (mongoloid hairs, which correlate with Asians). Later forensic odontology examinations of the bite marks found that while the mans tooth was jutting outward from the rest of them, there was no separation of the mans tooth as opposed to the bite marks on the body. A one in a million chance of having teeth that were similar to another, later examinations showed some signs that they had been wrong. For your own opinions read the story about the wrongful conviction of Ray Krone. What makes this case relate to the accusations of obama's birth certificate false only shows that while similarities like this do occur in forensics, it doesn't mean that they are beyond impossible. Like the Krone case, a conclusion that came from offhand self-justification made from a small detail wrongfully convicted an innocent man. The Bs that appear similar on the photo of the birth certificate are nothing more than coincidences and someone's conjectured self-justified opinion make it appear false. To me it seems that Joe is out trying to demonize the president like a lot of other republicans. Besides small anomalies are considered more to be opinion than fact and aren't scientifically valid.
Oh golly, I think I've found a challenger for my silver medal.
Welcome to CS, Baron.
More Threads
Reality Check
rarotonga
Salami, Salami, Baloney
everything is changing
1830's Music
Nature
Icebergs Still Around
How far is too far?
What I Lack In Vocabulary
Don Shits-In-Pants!!!
More Threads
Report threads that break rules, are offensive, or contain fighting. Staff may not be aware of the forum abuse, and cannot do anything about it unless you tell us about it. click to report forum abuse »
When the global elitists (Rockefeller, Soros, etc) chose Obama to be their hatchet man and patsy in Washington, they knew that there would be instant opposition to his policies designed to destroy the middle class and drain all wealth out of the nation.
So in typical Illuminati style they set about to control the dialectic from both sides. The birth certificate issue is just a tool to trivialize the debate.
It may very well be a fake. But rest assured that if they had wanted to, the administration could have come up with a certificate that would be "realer than real". If they didn't it's because the whole issue was planned and is just a straw-man tactic to keep the opposition distracted on an issue that can never be proved one way or the other.
There are plenty of valid reasons why Obama should be impeached tried and executed. There's no point wasting time on the birth certificate question. It merely trivializes the debate.