The Importance of good spelling and grammar (206)
jac379: Saying, "I prefer to correspond with people who I can accurately and deeply express myself and them with me." is different from saying "People are lazy and ill-educated if I can't communicate with them in the way that suits me."
Jac, I never said the above and if you read it that way, maybe you should work on your interpretation skills.
I'm out of here, because there is no point in trying to have a discussion with you.
KNenagh: There are different opinions and voicing them without getting called names should be possible.
I don't like someone twisting my words even though it is obvious what I am talking about.
Thanks for the flowers unlaoised, English isn't my first language and sometimes I mightn't be as clear about something as I wish to be, but I'll do my best and try to elaborate if someone doesn't understand me.
I don't like someone twisting my words even though it is obvious what I am talking about.
Thanks for the flowers unlaoised, English isn't my first language and sometimes I mightn't be as clear about something as I wish to be, but I'll do my best and try to elaborate if someone doesn't understand me.
Your english is brilliant, K. I only wish my German was as good
unlaoised: Your english is brilliant, K. I only wish my German was as good
hello gorgeous 
ali110: hello gorgeous
afternoon Ali
unlaoised: afternoon Ali
evening baby doll 
how is weather and everything ?
jac379: I don't know what a pronown pronoun is, nor do I understand the specifics of your question.
I learned English intuitively, I know fairly well how to use it, but I don't know what everything is called. It doesn't matter how many times I look things up, like the definition of word 'verb', it never stays in my memory.
I have no idea whether people choose not to learn, has have been put off from certain types of learning, has have no interest in a particular bit of learning (there is so much to learn, why does everybody have to know the same things?), or whether something just doesn't compute in the format it's presented to them.
Some people are wordy, some people think in shapes, some in colour and no doubt in many other ways.
Oh, hang on, I get your question now. How do the people using a pronoun (whatever that is) know that they're using it incorrectly and that someone else is using it correctly just by reading someone else's use of the word? Even if they recognise that someone else's sentence sounds better, how do they process and utilise the correct usage?
Personally, I use a lot of visual imagery and lateral thinking for spelling if that's any help in answering your question: if I want to say, "Bear in mind..." I imagine a bear inside my skull every single time I write the word.
I learned English intuitively, I know fairly well how to use it, but I don't know what everything is called. It doesn't matter how many times I look things up, like the definition of word 'verb', it never stays in my memory.
I have no idea whether people choose not to learn, has have been put off from certain types of learning, has have no interest in a particular bit of learning (there is so much to learn, why does everybody have to know the same things?), or whether something just doesn't compute in the format it's presented to them.
Some people are wordy, some people think in shapes, some in colour and no doubt in many other ways.
Oh, hang on, I get your question now. How do the people using a pronoun (whatever that is) know that they're using it incorrectly and that someone else is using it correctly just by reading someone else's use of the word? Even if they recognise that someone else's sentence sounds better, how do they process and utilise the correct usage?
Personally, I use a lot of visual imagery and lateral thinking for spelling if that's any help in answering your question: if I want to say, "Bear in mind..." I imagine a bear inside my skull every single time I write the word.
I knew it Jac.
The longer youe response was the longer your comment
I said pronouns trying to narrow the point but there are other words as well:
Their There
Then Than
Etc...
In fact I do remember K posting an image about it.
Even though English is not my first language I will try to be concise:
How do you call a person that has the capacity to learn and could use it in his/her life but chooses not to in a conscious/subconscious way (where is BB ?)
ali110: evening baby doll
how is weather and everything ?
how is weather and everything ?
Babydoll?
jac379: I have a problem with people being called lazy and ill-educated if their literacy skills aren't up to a standard that you see fit....
So it is right for a lazy person to choose not to learn and it is wrong for a person to choose not to communicate with someone who does not have a good language skill?
Good time to all!
CapricornDancer: I find the level of literacy on this and other sites disturbing. How do you feel?
Considering this is an international site, the forum posts might be a challenge for many people to read and interpret but overall, I think most people are tolerant of the differences. On a personal level, I'm inclined to gravitate towards those who make a sincere effort to communicate effectively so as not to be misunderstood. Good communication is very important to me on a personal level and as long as I can understand the message being conveyed, minor spelling, grammatical errors and improper sentence structure is excusable.
lifeisadream: I knew it Jac.
The longer youe response was the longer your comment
I said pronouns trying to narrow the point but there are other words as well:
Their There
Then Than
Etc...
In fact I do remember K posting an image about it.
Even though English is not my first language I will try to be concise:
(I never said clear
)
How do you call a person that has the capacity to learn and could use it in his/her life but chooses not to in a conscious/subconscious way (where is BB ?)
The longer youe response was the longer your comment
I said pronouns trying to narrow the point but there are other words as well:
Their There
Then Than
Etc...
In fact I do remember K posting an image about it.
Even though English is not my first language I will try to be concise:
(I never said clear
)How do you call a person that has the capacity to learn and could use it in his/her life but chooses not to in a conscious/subconscious way (where is BB ?)
For ever learning is something,some people don't want to do.So if some didn't managed to learn when younger,and want to STOP learning,is like asking them,by force to change their ways.-In other words telling them directly or indirectly.-"""No matter what, you have to learn more ,than you know off"".-And this attitute,was the ""Iron will"" for some states towards their population.
KNenagh: How much do you know about them jac?
We all make choices in life. Some people are simply not interested in learning and increasing their skill set. Nothing wrong with that, I am just not interested in communicating with them on here.
Not everyone suits the "normal" school system, but today there are more possibilities than ever to go and learn things - various courses open to adults, internet learning etc. So if someone did't manage to learn in a way that suited him in younger years, what stops them now?
I said in every post I made that I have no problem with people being dyslexic I am just not interested to communicate with people who have no communication skills.
There are people who choose not to communicate with me and I am with them. What is your problem with acknowledging this? Is it a problem for you that there are people who don't want to communicate with you and you can't accept this?
We all make choices in life. Some people are simply not interested in learning and increasing their skill set. Nothing wrong with that, I am just not interested in communicating with them on here.
Not everyone suits the "normal" school system, but today there are more possibilities than ever to go and learn things - various courses open to adults, internet learning etc. So if someone did't manage to learn in a way that suited him in younger years, what stops them now?
I said in every post I made that I have no problem with people being dyslexic I am just not interested to communicate with people who have no communication skills.
There are people who choose not to communicate with me and I am with them. What is your problem with acknowledging this? Is it a problem for you that there are people who don't want to communicate with you and you can't accept this?
2intrigued: Considering this is an international site, the forum posts might be a challenge for many people to read and interpret but overall, I think most people are tolerant of the differences. On a personal level, I'm inclined to gravitate towards those who make a sincere effort to communicate effectively so as not to be misunderstood. Good communication is very important to me on a personal level and as long as I can understand the message being conveyed, minor spelling, grammatical errors and improper sentence structure is excusable.
Don't forget thumbs.
Ccincy: Don't forget thumbs.
Just when I was starting to forget. Thanks for the reminder CC.
2intrigued: Just when I was starting to forget. Thanks for the reminder CC.
Sure you were.
I'm dyslexic and enumerate, I have never had anyone show any form of discrimination against me for being so, I taught computer engineers for over 15 years and it was never a problem.
I have been teaching English for over 8 years and yes I often make spelling mistakes when writing on the boards etc. But use that to praise a student who spots my “deliberate” mistake.
So much crap is written and spoken about dyslexia it has all become too confusing, and instead of just encouraging those who have dyslexia to find simple ways to correct themselves or simply ignore it, todays do gooders seem to revel in making everyone else feel obliged to “look away”.
It is now PC to blame poor lazy and disruptive students, as having dyslexia or being hyperactive, when in actual fact they are just lazy and disruptive. But I'm sure some will say students are never lazy or disruptive, or they must have been affected by a traumatic event when 4 months old!!!
It comes down the same old story, modern mankind is slowly but surely, being persuaded by those who apparently are never wrong, to reject any form of responsibility and to always pass the buck, what a sad sad state of affairs.
I have been teaching English for over 8 years and yes I often make spelling mistakes when writing on the boards etc. But use that to praise a student who spots my “deliberate” mistake.
So much crap is written and spoken about dyslexia it has all become too confusing, and instead of just encouraging those who have dyslexia to find simple ways to correct themselves or simply ignore it, todays do gooders seem to revel in making everyone else feel obliged to “look away”.
It is now PC to blame poor lazy and disruptive students, as having dyslexia or being hyperactive, when in actual fact they are just lazy and disruptive. But I'm sure some will say students are never lazy or disruptive, or they must have been affected by a traumatic event when 4 months old!!!
It comes down the same old story, modern mankind is slowly but surely, being persuaded by those who apparently are never wrong, to reject any form of responsibility and to always pass the buck, what a sad sad state of affairs.
Ccincy: Sure you were.
Consciously am avoiding to learn more than i know off,which makes my child mad asking."""Why??? i know you are capable"""and my usual reply is """Capable or not,is my choice""".
lifeisadream: I knew it Jac.
The longer youe response was the longer your comment
I said pronouns trying to narrow the point but there are other words as well:
Their There
Then Than
Etc...
In fact I do remember K posting an image about it.
Even though English is not my first language I will try to be concise:
How do you call a person that has the capacity to learn and could use it in his/her life but chooses not to in a conscious/subconscious way (where is BB ?)
The longer youe response was the longer your comment
I said pronouns trying to narrow the point but there are other words as well:
Their There
Then Than
Etc...
In fact I do remember K posting an image about it.
Even though English is not my first language I will try to be concise:
How do you call a person that has the capacity to learn and could use it in his/her life but chooses not to in a conscious/subconscious way (where is BB ?)
jac379: Hi Joey. A lot people don't realise they're dyslexic. About five years ago I was talking to a learning support teacher who described to me what my daughter was seeing after some in house college screening.
I asked, "Doesn't everyone see that...?"
That's how I found out all those things I thought were issues with print, my monitor, dog hairs on the page I kept trying to brush away were actually a result of a hereditary condition both my daughter and I have called Irlen's Syndrome, a light sensitivity disorder related to dyslexia.
The knowledge of how I perceive and function cognitively has opened up my world.
That is very interesting. Congratulations on your realization Jac. I learn something new every day.I asked, "Doesn't everyone see that...?"
That's how I found out all those things I thought were issues with print, my monitor, dog hairs on the page I kept trying to brush away were actually a result of a hereditary condition both my daughter and I have called Irlen's Syndrome, a light sensitivity disorder related to dyslexia.
The knowledge of how I perceive and function cognitively has opened up my world.
CapricornDancer: I find the level of literacy on this and other sites disturbing. How do you feel?
I think that it is sad the way that people use the written language to manipulate and play mind games with others. Many of the present company included. They find the right Buttons to push and they think that Life is a joke. Well it may be a laugh or quite entertaining for them but it seems to be at the expense of others. Those are just plain BAd people either way you look at it. Grammar and spelling is all good but can also become a tool of snobbery. And that is not something we are lacking in any part of the world these days.
Dragos1: I think that it is sad the way that people use the written language to manipulate and play mind games with others. Many of the present company included. They find the right Buttons to push and they think that Life is a joke. Well it may be a laugh or quite entertaining for them but it seems to be at the expense of others. Those are just plain BAd people either way you look at it. Grammar and spelling is all good but can also become a tool of snobbery. And that is not something we are lacking in any part of the world these days.
You are very right . For some is a tool of """Snobbery""".chris27292729: You are very right . For some is a tool of """Snobbery""".
I would rather sit and eat bread with a man with a smile and some good laughs then a well spoken hypocrite with expensive wine.
Dragos1: I would rather sit and eat bread with a man with a smile and some good laughs then a well spoken hypocrite with expensive wine.
Here, here.
2intrigued: Here, here.
"To Comprehend a mouthful of words is a tastier treat than a garden of clever lies"
-Dragos
lifeisadream: I knew it Jac.
The longer youe response was the longer your comment
I said pronouns trying to narrow the point but there are other words as well:
Their There
Then Than
Etc...
In fact I do remember K posting an image about it.
Even though English is not my first language I will try to be concise:
How do you call a person that has the capacity to learn and could use it in his/her life but chooses not to in a conscious/subconscious way (where is BB ?)
The longer youe response was the longer your comment
I said pronouns trying to narrow the point but there are other words as well:
Their There
Then Than
Etc...
In fact I do remember K posting an image about it.
Even though English is not my first language I will try to be concise:
How do you call a person that has the capacity to learn and could use it in his/her life but chooses not to in a conscious/subconscious way (where is BB ?)
The their/there thing is called a homophone error. I don't know what the then/than thing is called - all I know is most of the time the right one is intuitive to me, but once in a while I just cannot think of which one to use.
As for your question it sounds like one of those jokes, y'know, "What do you call a man with no ears? Anything you like he can't hear you."
I'm really not sure what you're driving
rizlared: I'm dyslexic and enumerate, I have never had anyone show any form of discrimination against me for being so, I taught computer engineers for over 15 years and it was never a problem.
I have been teaching English for over 8 years and yes I often make spelling mistakes when writing on the boards etc. But use that to praise a student who spots my “deliberate” mistake.
So much crap is written and spoken about dyslexia it has all become too confusing, and instead of just encouraging those who have dyslexia to find simple ways to correct themselves or simply ignore it, todays do gooders seem to revel in making everyone else feel obliged to “look away”.
It is now PC to blame poor lazy and disruptive students, as having dyslexia or being hyperactive, when in actual fact they are just lazy and disruptive. But I'm sure some will say students are never lazy or disruptive, or they must have been affected by a traumatic event when 4 months old!!!
It comes down the same old story, modern mankind is slowly but surely, being persuaded by those who apparently are never wrong, to reject any form of responsibility and to always pass the buck, what a sad sad state of affairs.
I have been teaching English for over 8 years and yes I often make spelling mistakes when writing on the boards etc. But use that to praise a student who spots my “deliberate” mistake.
So much crap is written and spoken about dyslexia it has all become too confusing, and instead of just encouraging those who have dyslexia to find simple ways to correct themselves or simply ignore it, todays do gooders seem to revel in making everyone else feel obliged to “look away”.
It is now PC to blame poor lazy and disruptive students, as having dyslexia or being hyperactive, when in actual fact they are just lazy and disruptive. But I'm sure some will say students are never lazy or disruptive, or they must have been affected by a traumatic event when 4 months old!!!
It comes down the same old story, modern mankind is slowly but surely, being persuaded by those who apparently are never wrong, to reject any form of responsibility and to always pass the buck, what a sad sad state of affairs.
Yes, a lot of children automatically develop coping strategies, especially if their dyslexia, dyscalculia, or whatever is mild. People with specific learning issues are often extremely bright and creative and should be commended.
The problem comes when people need support and information to expand their coping strategies, or need certain things to help them access and process information, but teachers find it easier for themselves to ignore a students needs, punish, or belittle. Very often the kind of help someone needs can be as simple as using large font on cream paper, coloured overlays, the use of a laptop/computer, using white board pen colours that everyone in the class can see, or getting up and moving around periodically to re-oxygenate the brain.
Some innovative schools and colleges routinely have strategies in place to include and not discriminate against a proportion of their students. It's a matter of using simple techniques which suit all students, rather than only some of them.
jac379: The their/there thing is called a homophone error. I don't know what the then/than thing is called - all I know is most of the time the right one is intuitive to me, but once in a while I just cannot think of which one to use....
jac379: …
As for your question it sounds like one of those jokes, y'know, "What do you call a man with no ears? Anything you like he can't hear you.".
As for your question it sounds like one of those jokes, y'know, "What do you call a man with no ears? Anything you like he can't hear you.".
In fact, a man with no ears can still hear.
jac379: If it's a problematic issue for that person, I'd be more concerned with exploring their issue with them.
What if that person can not communicate well?
Some time ago, someone check my profile and did send me flowers so I did check his profile and I found an interesting mature male specimen with a lovely profile but at the end it said “sorry I do not speak English”. Anyway I did write to him to thank him and ask which languages he spoke? Only his native language and he was from one of those countries from the former Soviet Union. Conclusion: Arrivederce! and wish him the best.
It takes some time to learn a language enough to be able to communicate and somepeople might be more patient -as it seems you are- but others no (me included).
jac379: ..
I'm really not sure what you're driving out at, Life. What are the reasons for your hypothetical scenario?.
I'm really not sure what you're driving out at, Life. What are the reasons for your hypothetical scenario?.
lifeisadream: So
it is right for a lazy person to choose not to learn and
it is wrong for a person to choose not to communicate with someone who does not have a good language skill?
it is right for a lazy person to choose not to learn and
it is wrong for a person to choose not to communicate with someone who does not have a good language skill?
My point is that in either of the above circumstances there is no right and certainly not wrong. It is just a matter of preferences Jac.
lifeisadream: In fact, a man with no ears can still hear.
What if that person can not communicate well?
Some time ago, someone check my profile and did send me flowers so I did check his profile and I found an interesting mature male specimen with a lovely profile but at the end it said “sorry I do not speak English”. Anyway I did write to him to thank him and ask which languages he spoke? Only his native language and he was from one of those countries from the former Soviet Union. Conclusion: Arrivederce! and wish him the best.
It takes some time to learn a language enough to be able to communicate and somepeople might be more patient -as it seems you are- but others no (me included).
My point is that in either of the above circumstances there is no right and certainly not wrong. It is just a matter of preferences Jac.
What if that person can not communicate well?
Some time ago, someone check my profile and did send me flowers so I did check his profile and I found an interesting mature male specimen with a lovely profile but at the end it said “sorry I do not speak English”. Anyway I did write to him to thank him and ask which languages he spoke? Only his native language and he was from one of those countries from the former Soviet Union. Conclusion: Arrivederce! and wish him the best.
It takes some time to learn a language enough to be able to communicate and somepeople might be more patient -as it seems you are- but others no (me included).
My point is that in either of the above circumstances there is no right and certainly not wrong. It is just a matter of preferences Jac.
I have no issue with communication compatibility and I've said that many times on this thread.
My mum and dad didn't speak the same language when they got married. My dad had to nudge her in the ribs with his elbow when it was time to say I do because she didn't understand the wedding ceremony. I think if my dad had actually had to talk to a woman when courting, he never would have got married.
Can you imagine me not being able to discuss the ins and outs of a cat's arsehole with a partner?
Communication is very important to me, you might have noticed. It's the air I breath.However, spelling and grammatical mistakes are piddle in the wind compared to content and there are other ways to communicate besides the written word.
My objection to these type of threads is the disparagement of others, putting others down and what is effectively bullying - a group of people with good literacy excluding those who make mistakes, or struggle with written English. There are people who don't have the confidence to contribute to the forums because of this type of emotional battery.
It's just not on to call people lazy and ill-educated if they're literacy skills aren't perfect. It's just not on to behave in such a way so people feel excluded from joining in with a public forum. CS is not an exclusive club, it's for everyone.
jac379: I have no issue with communication compatibility and I've said that many times on this thread.
My mum and dad didn't speak the same language when they got married. My dad had to nudge her in the ribs with his elbow when it was time to say I do because she didn't understand the wedding ceremony. I think if my dad had actually had to talk to a woman when courting, he never would have got married.
Can you imagine me not being able to discuss the ins and outs of a cat's arsehole with a partner? Communication is very important to me, you might have noticed. It's the air I breath.
However, spelling and grammatical mistakes are piddle in the wind compared to content and there are other ways to communicate besides the written word.
My objection to these type of threads is the disparagement of others, putting others down and what is effectively bullying - a group of people with good literacy excluding those who make mistakes, or struggle with written English. There are people who don't have the confidence to contribute to the forums because of this type of emotional battery.
It's just not on to call people lazy and ill-educated if they're literacy skills aren't perfect. It's just not on to behave in such a way so people feel excluded from joining in with a public forum. CS is not an exclusive club, it's for everyone.
My mum and dad didn't speak the same language when they got married. My dad had to nudge her in the ribs with his elbow when it was time to say I do because she didn't understand the wedding ceremony. I think if my dad had actually had to talk to a woman when courting, he never would have got married.
Can you imagine me not being able to discuss the ins and outs of a cat's arsehole with a partner? Communication is very important to me, you might have noticed. It's the air I breath.
However, spelling and grammatical mistakes are piddle in the wind compared to content and there are other ways to communicate besides the written word.
My objection to these type of threads is the disparagement of others, putting others down and what is effectively bullying - a group of people with good literacy excluding those who make mistakes, or struggle with written English. There are people who don't have the confidence to contribute to the forums because of this type of emotional battery.
It's just not on to call people lazy and ill-educated if they're literacy skills aren't perfect. It's just not on to behave in such a way so people feel excluded from joining in with a public forum. CS is not an exclusive club, it's for everyone.
I concur and well said ..
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Saying, "I prefer to correspond with people who I can accurately and deeply express myself and them with me." is different from saying "People are lazy and ill-educated if I can't communicate with them in the way that suits me."