is there a GOD (463)

Mar 8, 2011 10:57 PM CST is there a GOD
SCatlyn
SCatlynSCatlynBrecon, South Glamorgan, Wales UK5 Threads 2,166 Posts
RDM59: I'm sure he is a kind and gentle man and is quite capable of coping with my minor comment. Come on, lighten up please.

I've seen a few comments which infer to me that it is the fear of not ensuring a heavenly afterlife that drives the religious following during this earthly one. If so, is being a good person and helping others etc just a self serving process
( witnessed and recorded by the almighty of course) to ensure an entry ticket to heaven and therefore the good deed is not really done without any personal benefit in mind ?
Here's a little something to lighten things up, from my friend, the aforementioned kind and gentle man(I also posted this on V-day in time4fun's thread "Remember...")

"From a good friend on here:

OTHER SIDE OF SAD
Author: serpico12AKAchristian22

SOMETIMES SAD SONGS
JUST FILL THE AIR
AND WE KIND OF GET
SOME COMFORT
WHENEVER WE ARE THERE

BUT LET'S NOT
STAY THERE TOO LONG
THERE ARE MORE FISH
IN THE SEA

IF WE WILL JUST KEEP ON
PAST THE RAINBOW
ON TOWARD THE POT OF GOLD
THERE IS LOVE, I AM SURE
AND MORE THAN CAN BE TOLD

SO SAY GOODBYE TO SAD SONGS
AND FACE THE WORLD AGAIN
I AM ALWAYS GLAD TO SEE
THE SUNSHINE MORE THAN RAIN

SO HERE'S TO ALL
WHO FEEL THE SAD TODAY
HERE'S A WISH
THAT YOU ALL FIND BETTER DAYS..
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Mar 9, 2011 12:31 AM CST is there a GOD
Italy101
Italy101Italy101union, New Jersey USA19 Threads 4 Polls 420 Posts
just a poll[/quote My father ask me if i really believe there is a GOD and Heaven. Because he is 65yrs old now and mite have a good 20 or 30yrs left on earth... I told him i do believe there is a GOD and heaven.

I pondered on what he said to me. and when i was a work the very next day i asked a friend and co worker of mine that is 55yrs old if he believed there really is a God...

He told me during a very difficult surgery he gone through that he was warned he could die from it. But it was the only way he would beable to survive. And that is just what had happened. He passed away for 22 minutes on the operation table. Miraculously the doctor's brought him back to life.

He told me he knew he had died when he seen a bright light flash in his eyes. When the light went away. He was surrounded by family members that had passed on. And one of them was his brother... They talked for the time they had. His brother said to him. I see you have a family and two kids grown up now. He replied yes i do and i need to be there for them. But i can no longer be. But it is so great to see you again. I miss u sooo much. His brother replied i miss u so much to. But it is not your time.. We will see eachother again.

Then my friend Sam woke up on the operation table.

Sam's brother was murdered when he was 14yrs old.
Mar 9, 2011 2:16 PM CST is there a GOD
reneldo
reneldoreneldobridgetown, Saint Michael Barbados46 Posts
cynicalorange: It's the same as asking if Godzilla exists. Both are characters from a major bit of fiction, with no proof of either ever existing.


Nature tells me that living things only come from living things, never from non-living matter; so life itself must have always existed. Since the current astronomical data points to a beginning of the physical universe billions of years agao at the big bang, then life itself (since it has no beggining) predates the universe. now what kinda life can exist outside the universe? since the physical universe is all of nature, it must be supernatural life.

also, minds are the only known source of meaningful information. only a person could have put the complex information in our DNA at the beginning. no naturalistic explanation can explain adequately the origin of complexed specific meaningful information as we find in the genetic code. all this points to a creator.

the existence of absolute moral values tells us that we are made in the image of God and did not evolve from animals. the resurrection of Jesus also proves God's existence. Luke interviewd the eyewitnesses (Luke 4:1-5)as one of the means that he got his information.
Mar 9, 2011 2:18 PM CST is there a GOD
tallman51
tallman51tallman51Limerick, Ireland9 Threads 1 Polls 3,327 Posts
Yes !!.......and he thinks he's Bono !
Mar 9, 2011 2:32 PM CST is there a GOD
theoldestdear
theoldestdeartheoldestdearReading, Berkshire, England UK2 Threads 507 Posts
reneldo: Nature tells me that living things only come from living things, never from non-living matter; so life itself must have always existed. Since the current astronomical data points to a beginning of the physical universe billions of years agao at the big bang, then life itself (since it has no beggining) predates the universe. now what kinda life can exist outside the universe? since the physical universe is all of nature, it must be supernatural life.


In your opinion how old is the Earth and when did life first appear on our planet?

reneldo: also, minds are the only known source of meaningful information. only a person could have put the complex information in our DNA at the beginning. no naturalistic explanation can explain adequately the origin of complexed specific meaningful information as we find in the genetic code. all this points to a creator..


what, in your opinion, is complex about the triplet code in DNA?

reneldo: the existence of absolute moral values tells us that we are made in the image of God and did not evolve from animals so did we just arrive one sunny day? . the resurrection of Jesus also proves God's existence. Luke interviewd the eyewitnesses (Luke 4:1-5)as one of the means that he got his information.


what are these absolute moral values, prove to me that they exist?
Mar 9, 2011 2:56 PM CST is there a GOD
SCatlyn
SCatlynSCatlynBrecon, South Glamorgan, Wales UK5 Threads 2,166 Posts
Italy101: ...

He told me during a very difficult surgery he gone through that he was warned he could die from it. But it was the only way he would beable to survive. And that is just what had happened. He passed away for 22 minutes on the operation table. Miraculously the doctor's brought him back to life.

He told me he knew he had died when he seen a bright light flash in his eyes. When the light went away. He was surrounded by family members that had passed on. And one of them was his brother... They talked for the time they had. His brother said to him. I see you have a family and two kids grown up now. He replied yes i do and i need to be there for them. But i can no longer be. But it is so great to see you again. I miss u sooo much. His brother replied i miss u so much to. But it is not your time.. We will see eachother again.

Then my friend Sam woke up on the operation table.

Sam's brother was murdered when he was 14yrs old.
Thanks for posting. That reminds me of a Christian friend I have who, about 20 yrs. ago, was on a motorcycle trip w/a Christian friend of his & both in the same horrible accident. Both were married & just starting families. His friend died, and he died in surgery, but came back from it(near-death experience is what it's usually called).

He also told about the light and the great peaceful, comforting, pure love he felt engulfed in. Since that happened, he doesn't fear dying at ALL. He's experienced it, and said it isn't scary, just the opposite. His dad has passed away since, but his own "death" experience has given great comfort in knowing his dad experienced & feels what he did. Though he has a family, & kids are nearly grown now, even when they were younger, all through the years he hasn't been afraid to die - he was also able to see the whole picture during his experience - the true perspective on how short this life is... and if he were to die & be separated from his family, for him it appeared to be a short time before they would all be together again in the afterlife.
(I've read of these experiences over the years, but to hear it from an honest person whom I know personally is amazing.)
Mar 9, 2011 3:03 PM CST is there a GOD
reneldo
reneldoreneldobridgetown, Saint Michael Barbados46 Posts
theoldestdear: In your opinion how old is the Earth and when did life first appear on our planet?
what, in your opinion, is complex about the triplet code in DNA?
what are these absolute moral values, prove to me that they exist?


Amazing revelations about DNA

As scientists began to decode the human DNA molecule, they found something quite unexpected—an exquisite 'language' composed of some 3 billion genetic letters. "One of the most extraordinary discoveries of the twentieth century," says Dr. Stephen Meyer, director of the Center for Science and Culture at the Discovery Institute in Seattle, Wash., "was that DNA actually stores information—the detailed instructions for assembling proteins—in the form of a four-character digital code" (quoted by Lee Strobel, The Case for a Creator, 2004, p. 224).

It is hard to fathom, but the amount of information in human DNA is roughly equivalent to 12 sets of The Encyclopaedia Britannica—an incredible 384 volumes" worth of detailed information that would fill 48 feet of library shelves!

Yet in their actual size—which is only two millionths of a millimeter thick—a teaspoon of DNA, according to molecular biologist Michael Denton, could contain all the information needed to build the proteins for all the species of organisms that have ever lived on the earth, and "there would still be enough room left for all the information in every book ever written" (Evolution: A Theory in Crisis, 1996, p. 334).
Who or what could miniaturize such information and place this enormous number of 'letters' in their proper sequence as a genetic instruction manual? Could evolution have gradually come up with a system like this?
Mar 9, 2011 3:03 PM CST is there a GOD
SCatlyn
SCatlynSCatlynBrecon, South Glamorgan, Wales UK5 Threads 2,166 Posts
theoldestdear: In your opinion how old is the Earth and when did life first appear on our planet?
what, in your opinion, is complex about the triplet code in DNA?
what are these absolute moral values, prove to me that they exist?
Can anyone explain how anything ever came to be? Where did it start and how? Whatever it started from, how did that thing itself start? Sounds like a wild story.... just like Godzilla... only nobody can deny it, even though they can't explain it.

It would be nice to hear answers from those who don't believe in God - to show PROOF of their particular beliefs as well. It shouldn't be all one-sided. Some have said the theory of evolution proves it... but the proof you say exists needs to be posted. Otherwise, how do we know there is such proof? If it exists, and you know about it, it shouldn't be hard to post it here.
Mar 9, 2011 3:06 PM CST is there a GOD
reneldo
reneldoreneldobridgetown, Saint Michael Barbados46 Posts
theoldestdear: In your opinion how old is the Earth and when did life first appear on our planet?
what, in your opinion, is complex about the triplet code in DNA?
what are these absolute moral values, prove to me that they exist?


DNA contains a genetic language

Let's first consider some of the characteristics of this genetic 'language.' For it to be rightly called a language, it must contain the following elements: an alphabet or coding system, correct spelling, grammar (a proper arrangement of the words), meaning (semantics) and an intended purpose.
Scientists have found the genetic code has all of these key elements. "The coding regions of DNA," explains Dr. Stephen Meyer, "have exactly the same relevant properties as a computer code or language" (quoted by Strobel, p. 237, emphasis in original).

The only other codes found to be true languages are all of human origin. Although we do find that dogs bark when they perceive danger, bees dance to point other bees to a source and whales emit sounds, to name a few examples of other species" communication, none of these have the composition of a language. They are only considered low-level communication signals.
The only types of communication considered high-level are human languages, artificial languages such as computer and Morse codes and the genetic code. No other communication system has been found to contain the basic characteristics of a language.
Bill Gates, founder of Microsoft, commented that "DNA is like a software program, only much more complex than anything we've ever devised."

Can you imagine something more intricate than the most complex program running on a supercomputer being devised by accident through evolution—no matter how much time, how many mutations and how much natural selection are taken into account?
Mar 9, 2011 3:06 PM CST is there a GOD
compact
compactcompactBirkirkara, Majjistral Malta3 Posts
Well, let's put it like this. According to Theology, which in fact is a branch of Philosophy, we are all given an immortal soul, which according to the bible is god's breath and immortal. Now if we are going to be logical in this, we have to bear in mind that god had no parts, but is full, and whole. So logically, everyone of us forms part of the whole, hence all of us are gods, and i stated that there is a god, and that i believe in God, after all I believe in myself!
Mar 9, 2011 3:07 PM CST is there a GOD
reneldo
reneldoreneldobridgetown, Saint Michael Barbados46 Posts
theoldestdear: In your opinion how old is the Earth and when did life first appear on our planet?
what, in your opinion, is complex about the triplet code in DNA?
what are these absolute moral values, prove to me that they exist?


Information from an intelligent source
In addition, this type of high-level information has been found to originate only from an intelligent source.
As Lee Strobel explains: "The data at the core of life is not disorganized, it's not simply orderly like salt crystals, but it's complex and specific information that can accomplish a bewildering task—the building of biological machines that far outstrip human technological capabilities" (p. 244).
For instance, the precision of this genetic language is such that the average mistake that is not caught turns out to be one error per 10 billion letters. If a mistake occurs in one of the most significant parts of the code, which is in the genes, it can cause a disease such as sickle-cell anemia. Yet even the best and most intelligent typist in the world couldn't come close to making only one mistake per 10 billion letters—far from it.

So to believe that the genetic code gradually evolved in Darwinian style would break all the known rules of how matter, energy and the laws of nature work. In fact, there has not been found in nature any example of one information system inside the cell gradually evolving into another functional information program.

Michael Behe, a biochemist and professor at Pennsylvania's Lehigh University, explains that genetic information is primarily an instruction manual and gives some examples.
He writes: "Consider a step-by-step list of instructions. A mutation is a change in one of the lines of instructions. So instead of saying, "Take a 1/4-inch nut," a mutation might say, "Take a 3/8-inch nut." Or instead of "Place the round peg in the round hole," we might get "Place the round peg in the square hole" . . . What a mutation cannot do is change all the instructions in one step—say, [providing instructions] to build a fax machine instead of a radio" (Darwin's Black Box, 1996, p. 41).

We therefore have in the genetic code an immensely complex instruction manual that has been majestically designed by a more intelligent source than human beings.

Even one of the discoverers of the genetic code, the agnostic and recently deceased Francis Crick, after decades of work on deciphering it, admitted that "an honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to be almost a miracle, so many are the conditions which would have had to have been satisfied to get it going" (Life Itself, 1981, p. 88, emphasis added).
Mar 9, 2011 3:07 PM CST is there a GOD
bodleing
bodleingbodleingGreater Manchester, England UK238 Threads 8 Polls 13,810 Posts
SCatlyn: Can anyone explain how anything ever came to be? Where did it start and how? Whatever it started from, how did that thing itself start? Sounds like a wild story.... just like Godzilla... only nobody can deny it, even though they can't explain it.

It would be nice to hear answers from those who don't believe in God - to show PROOF of their particular beliefs as well. It shouldn't be all one-sided. Some have said the theory of evolution proves it... but the proof you say exists needs to be posted. Otherwise, how do we know there is such proof? If it exists, and you know about it, it shouldn't be hard to post it here.


Do you really think people should post the theory of evolution on here?laugh

If anyone wanted to research that, endless amounts of information is available.
Mar 9, 2011 3:11 PM CST is there a GOD
reneldo
reneldoreneldobridgetown, Saint Michael Barbados46 Posts
theoldestdear: In your opinion how old is the Earth and when did life first appear on our planet?
what, in your opinion, is complex about the triplet code in DNA?
what are these absolute moral values, prove to me that they exist?


Quality of genetic information the same
Evolution tells us that through chance mutations and natural selection, living things evolve. Yet to evolve means to gradually change certain aspects of some living thing until it becomes another type of creature, and this can only be done by changing the genetic information.

So what do we find about the genetic code? The same basic quality of information exists in a humble bacteria or a plant as in a person. A bacterium has a shorter genetic code, but qualitatively it gives instructions as precisely and exquisitely as that of a human being. We find the same prerequisites of a language—alphabet, grammar and semantics—in simple bacteria and algae as in man.

Each cell with genetic information, from bacteria to man, according to molecular biologist Michael Denton, consists of "artificial languages and their decoding systems, memory banks for information storage and retrieval, elegant control systems regulating the automated assembly of parts and components, error fail-safe and proof-reading devices utilized for quality control, assembly processes involving the principle of prefabrication and modular construction . . . [and a] capacity not equalled in any of our most advanced machines, for it would be capable of replicating its entire structure within a matter of a few hours" (Denton, p. 329).

So how could the genetic information of bacteria gradually evolve into information for another type of being, when only one or a few minor mistakes in the millions of letters in that bacterium's DNA can kill it?

Again, evolutionists are uncharacteristically silent on the subject. They don't even have a working hypothesis about it. Lee Strobel writes: "The six feet of DNA coiled inside every one of our body's one hundred trillion cells contains a four-letter chemical alphabet that spells out precise assembly instructions for all the proteins from which our bodies are made . . . No hypothesis has come close to explaining how information got into biological matter by naturalistic means" (Strobel, p. 282).
Werner Gitt, professor of information systems, puts it succinctly: "The basic flaw of all evolutionary views is the origin of the information in living beings. It has never been shown that a coding system and semantic information could originate by itself [through matter] . . . The information theorems predict that this will never be possible. A purely material origin of life is thus [ruled out]" (Gitt, p. 124).

There is much more to DNA, but this is sufficient to show that the information in the DNA could only come from an intelligence.
Mar 9, 2011 3:12 PM CST is there a GOD
SCatlyn
SCatlynSCatlynBrecon, South Glamorgan, Wales UK5 Threads 2,166 Posts
Going to post an experience from my own life, but since it says "no html" in the rules, I'll have to post the pics in the Picture Thread. (Then will quote this & post the story both here & with the pics in the Picture Thread- and see what opinions are on whether it was God's intervention or it was just coincidence.)
Mar 9, 2011 3:13 PM CST is there a GOD
reneldo: Information from an intelligent source
In addition, this type of high-level information has been found to originate only from an intelligent source.
As Lee Strobel explains: "The data at the core of life is not disorganized, it's not simply orderly like salt crystals, but it's complex and specific information that can accomplish a bewildering task—the building of biological machines that far outstrip human technological capabilities" (p. 244).
For instance, the precision of this genetic language is such that the average mistake that is not caught turns out to be one error per 10 billion letters. If a mistake occurs in one of the most significant parts of the code, which is in the genes, it can cause a disease such as sickle-cell anemia. Yet even the best and most intelligent typist in the world couldn't come close to making only one mistake per 10 billion letters—far from it.

So to believe that the genetic code gradually evolved in Darwinian style would break all the known rules of how matter, energy and the laws of nature work. In fact, there has not been found in nature any example of one information system inside the cell gradually evolving into another functional information program.

Michael Behe, a biochemist and professor at Pennsylvania's Lehigh University, explains that genetic information is primarily an instruction manual and gives some examples.
He writes: "Consider a step-by-step list of instructions. A mutation is a change in one of the lines of instructions. So instead of saying, "Take a 1/4-inch nut," a mutation might say, "Take a 3/8-inch nut." Or instead of "Place the round peg in the round hole," we might get "Place the round peg in the square hole" . . . What a mutation cannot do is change all the instructions in one step—say, [providing instructions] to build a fax machine instead of a radio" (Darwin's Black Box, 1996, p. 41).

We therefore have in the genetic code an immensely complex instruction manual that has been majestically designed by a more intelligent source than human beings.

Even one of the discoverers of the genetic code, the agnostic and recently deceased Francis Crick, after decades of work on deciphering it, admitted that "an honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to be almost a miracle, so many are the conditions which would have had to have been satisfied to get it going" (Life Itself, 1981, p. 88, emphasis added).
You really expect us to take Lee Strobel's word for anything?rolling on the floor laughing

Mar 9, 2011 3:15 PM CST is there a GOD
SCatlyn
SCatlynSCatlynBrecon, South Glamorgan, Wales UK5 Threads 2,166 Posts
reneldo: DNA contains a genetic language

Let's first consider some of the characteristics of this genetic 'language.' For it to be rightly called a language, it must contain the following elements: an alphabet or coding system, correct spelling, grammar (a proper arrangement of the words), meaning (semantics) and an intended purpose.
Scientists have found the genetic code has all of these key elements. "The coding regions of DNA," explains Dr. Stephen Meyer, "have exactly the same relevant properties as a computer code or language" (quoted by Strobel, p. 237, emphasis in original).

The only other codes found to be true languages are all of human origin. Although we do find that dogs bark when they perceive danger, bees dance to point other bees to a source and whales emit sounds, to name a few examples of other species" communication, none of these have the composition of a language. They are only considered low-level communication signals.
The only types of communication considered high-level are human languages, artificial languages such as computer and Morse codes and the genetic code. No other communication system has been found to contain the basic characteristics of a language.
Bill Gates, founder of Microsoft, commented that "DNA is like a software program, only much more complex than anything we've ever devised."

Can you imagine something more intricate than the most complex program running on a supercomputer being devised by accident through evolution—no matter how much time, how many mutations and how much natural selection are taken into account?
Nice post - someone just pointed out to me today, how did language come about if there wasn't a creator. I hadn't really thought about it before.
Mar 9, 2011 3:17 PM CST is there a GOD
reneldo: Quality of genetic information the same
Evolution tells us that through chance mutations and natural selection, living things evolve. Yet to evolve means to gradually change certain aspects of some living thing until it becomes another type of creature, and this can only be done by changing the genetic information.

So what do we find about the genetic code? The same basic quality of information exists in a humble bacteria or a plant as in a person. A bacterium has a shorter genetic code, but qualitatively it gives instructions as precisely and exquisitely as that of a human being. We find the same prerequisites of a language—alphabet, grammar and semantics—in simple bacteria and algae as in man.

Each cell with genetic information, from bacteria to man, according to molecular biologist Michael Denton, consists of "artificial languages and their decoding systems, memory banks for information storage and retrieval, elegant control systems regulating the automated assembly of parts and components, error fail-safe and proof-reading devices utilized for quality control, assembly processes involving the principle of prefabrication and modular construction . . . [and a] capacity not equalled in any of our most advanced machines, for it would be capable of replicating its entire structure within a matter of a few hours" (Denton, p. 329).

So how could the genetic information of bacteria gradually evolve into information for another type of being, when only one or a few minor mistakes in the millions of letters in that bacterium's DNA can kill it?

Again, evolutionists are uncharacteristically silent on the subject. They don't even have a working hypothesis about it. Lee Strobel writes: "The six feet of DNA coiled inside every one of our body's one hundred trillion cells contains a four-letter chemical alphabet that spells out precise assembly instructions for all the proteins from which our bodies are made . . . No hypothesis has come close to explaining how information got into biological matter by naturalistic means" (Strobel, p. 282).
Werner Gitt, professor of information systems, puts it succinctly: "The basic flaw of all evolutionary views is the origin of the information in living beings. It has never been shown that a coding system and semantic information could originate by itself [through matter] . . . The information theorems predict that this will never be possible. A purely material origin of life is thus [ruled out]" (Gitt, p. 124).

There is much more to DNA, but this is sufficient to show that the information in the DNA could only come from an intelligence.
Everyone you quoting is a Creationist!
As in the case of Strobel,not even a Scientist!
Mar 9, 2011 3:17 PM CST is there a GOD
rubendario
rubendariorubendarioHartford, Connecticut USA8 Threads 1 Polls 3,278 Posts
mlp133: just a poll


As much as I try to understand, I can't for the life of me, see how anyone can not believe, in at least the existence of a supreme being!

How can this universe, this living planet and it's life, the growth of germs in a small puddle of water within hours, and as the last man wrote about biological genetic programming code exist by chance?

Of course religion is another matter entirely!! doh
Mar 9, 2011 3:17 PM CST is there a GOD
bodleing
bodleingbodleingGreater Manchester, England UK238 Threads 8 Polls 13,810 Posts
SCatlyn: Nice post - someone just pointed out to me today, how did language come about if there wasn't a creator. I hadn't really thought about it before.


A multilingual creator?

Really...it gets worse...rolling on the floor laughing
Mar 9, 2011 3:20 PM CST is there a GOD
SCatlyn
SCatlynSCatlynBrecon, South Glamorgan, Wales UK5 Threads 2,166 Posts
bodleing: Do you really think people should post the theory of evolution on here?

If anyone wanted to research that, endless amounts of information is available.
Why? Is it that long? If it is, I'd just like to see a summary. But the title itself doesn't sound like proof - it sounds like it's a theory.

Fairs fair, though. Others keep saying to post proof of their belief in God. But no one's ever going to be able to post anything that will be taken as proof. The same as no one, no matter what their beliefs, can prove how the beginning came into existence.

(Are you saying we should just take people's word for it - the theory of evolution PROVES how everything began?)
Mar 9, 2011 3:23 PM CST is there a GOD
SCatlyn
SCatlynSCatlynBrecon, South Glamorgan, Wales UK5 Threads 2,166 Posts
bodleing: A multilingual creator?

Really...it gets worse...
No, one language in the beginning.
Mar 9, 2011 3:23 PM CST is there a GOD
reneldo
reneldoreneldobridgetown, Saint Michael Barbados46 Posts
Conrad73: You really expect us to take Lee Strobel's word for anything?



No I don't, and I don't expect you to take mine; I expect you to check it out for yourself and see if it is so. That's what people do when they want to check the facts. They don't just go on someone's word. Do you expect me to take your word? If so, why?
Mar 9, 2011 3:24 PM CST is there a GOD
Sunnydaze14
Sunnydaze14Sunnydaze14Dublin, Ireland105 Threads 3 Polls 2,870 Posts
SCatlyn: Nice post - someone just pointed out to me today, how did language come about if there wasn't a creator. I hadn't really thought about it before.


Language evolved, obviously different regions evolved differently as geographically they had little or no contact with other regions doh
Mar 9, 2011 3:26 PM CST is there a GOD
reneldo
reneldoreneldobridgetown, Saint Michael Barbados46 Posts
SCatlyn: Nice post - someone just pointed out to me today, how did language come about if there wasn't a creator. I hadn't really thought about it before.


Good point. Evolution nmoves from the simple to the complex. If that is how we got language, we would be moving from gruts and groans of cavemen to more complicated language; but that isn't the case. The most ancient languages like Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, etc are more complex than modern ones like English, Spanish and French. This is moving from the complex to the less complex. Quite odd if evolution were true.
Mar 9, 2011 3:33 PM CST is there a GOD
reneldo
reneldoreneldobridgetown, Saint Michael Barbados46 Posts
Conrad73: Everyone you quoting is a Creationist!
As in the case of Strobel,not even a Scientist!


And if you were to quote a scientist I bet he'd be an atheist! Should I question the reliability of his work because he has an axe to grind against God? Guilt by association is easy to make. But you can't prove that Dr. Meyer's work or Lee Stobel's is questionable just because of their religious persuasion anymore than I can claim that other scientists are twisting the facts because they are evolutionists. What you must do is look at the vidence.

Do any scientist (atheists included) deny that DNA contains the blueprint for the whole human body? Do they deny it ocntains the information for the brain, which is, the most complex machine there is? No! They don't deny these things. They may draw different conclusions about what the information means, bt they don't deny these facts in themselves. It is up to you to draw your own conclusion from the evidence.

Since you are an atheist, or agnostic, I don't know, I suppose I must think you are lying when you claim this or that, but I am not that petty. I don't play the gilt by association card; I deal with the evidence.
Mar 9, 2011 3:39 PM CST is there a GOD
reneldo
reneldoreneldobridgetown, Saint Michael Barbados46 Posts
rubendario: As much as I try to understand, I can't for the life of me, see how anyone can not believe, in at least the existence of a supreme being!

How can this universe, this living planet and it's life, the growth of germs in a small puddle of water within hours, and as the last man wrote about biological genetic programming code exist by chance?

Of course religion is another matter entirely!!


AMEN
Mar 9, 2011 3:41 PM CST is there a GOD
SCatlyn
SCatlynSCatlynBrecon, South Glamorgan, Wales UK5 Threads 2,166 Posts
Sunnydaze14: Language evolved, obviously different regions evolved differently as geographically they had little or no contact with other regions
That's not what I meant(and as I just pointed out, I didn't mean multi).

What I mean is, how did language - 1 language - the very 1st spoken word - begin?
Mar 9, 2011 3:41 PM CST is there a GOD
reneldo
reneldoreneldobridgetown, Saint Michael Barbados46 Posts
bodleing: A multilingual creator?

Really...it gets worse...


Some humans can speak many languages. I know a girl who speaks 8 languages. What's so amusing about a multilingual creator?
Mar 9, 2011 3:44 PM CST is there a GOD
well it depends on you i suppose i don't believe in god
Mar 9, 2011 3:45 PM CST is there a GOD
theoldestdear
theoldestdeartheoldestdearReading, Berkshire, England UK2 Threads 507 Posts
reneldo: No I don't, and I don't expect you to take mine; I expect you to check it out for yourself and see if it is so. That's what people do when they want to check the facts. They don't just go on someone's word. Do you expect me to take your word? If so, why?



A) The DNA evidence compiled in the '90s so richly and accurately met the many predictions of common descent with modification that biological scientists like Behe and Denton (whom you quote) no longer found it possible to persist with their opposition to common descent.

B) Denton in particular committed a complete about-turn once the full molecular evidence was in. His position transformed from "Evolution is impossible", to "Evolution is an inevitable and perfectly designed result of God's plan". Michael Denton's 1985 book, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis, inspired Phillip Johnson to create the modern ID movement in the early '90s. Denton's later (2002) book, Nature's Destiny, abandoned his earlier argument and basically conceded the whole story of evolution, arguing instead that the way the universe was designed made evolution inevitable - although interestingly, apparently he never once mentioned his earlier book in his later book.

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