Burqanisation (244)
"Burqa-clad robbers hold up post office
Two burqa-wearing robbers have held up a French post office using a handgun concealed beneath an Islamic-style full veil, court officials said.
Officials said postal office staff let the pair through the security double doors of the banking branch near Paris, believing them to be veil-wearing Muslim women.
Once inside, the pair flipped back their head coverings and pulled out a gun.
They made off with 4,500 euros ($7,100) seized from the staff and customers of the branch in Athis Mons, just south of Paris, according to the online edition of Le Parisien newspaper.
Police have opened an investigation.
France is seeking to restrict use of the head-to-toe Islamic veil on the grounds it is incompatible with French values, after a parliament report called for a ban in schools, hospitals, government offices and public transport.
President Nicolas Sarkozy's right-wing party has already presented a bill to make it illegal for anyone to cover their faces in public on security grounds.
Mr Sarkozy has declared the burqa "not welcome" in secular France and favours legislation to outlaw it, though he has warned against stigmatising Muslims.
According to the interior ministry, only around 1,900 women wear the burqa in France, which is home to Europe's biggest Muslim minority."
Posted Sun Feb 7, 2010 9:22am AEDT
Updated Sun Feb 7, 2010 9:28am AEDT
Two burqa-wearing robbers have held up a French post office using a handgun concealed beneath an Islamic-style full veil, court officials said.
Officials said postal office staff let the pair through the security double doors of the banking branch near Paris, believing them to be veil-wearing Muslim women.
Once inside, the pair flipped back their head coverings and pulled out a gun.
They made off with 4,500 euros ($7,100) seized from the staff and customers of the branch in Athis Mons, just south of Paris, according to the online edition of Le Parisien newspaper.
Police have opened an investigation.
France is seeking to restrict use of the head-to-toe Islamic veil on the grounds it is incompatible with French values, after a parliament report called for a ban in schools, hospitals, government offices and public transport.
President Nicolas Sarkozy's right-wing party has already presented a bill to make it illegal for anyone to cover their faces in public on security grounds.
Mr Sarkozy has declared the burqa "not welcome" in secular France and favours legislation to outlaw it, though he has warned against stigmatising Muslims.
According to the interior ministry, only around 1,900 women wear the burqa in France, which is home to Europe's biggest Muslim minority."
Posted Sun Feb 7, 2010 9:22am AEDT
Updated Sun Feb 7, 2010 9:28am AEDT
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bohdiprana: Of course I do. Do you recognize that there those women who do not want you meddling in their choices, based on what you call human rights or more appropriately a fight for women's rights, when what they want is to wear the burqa, to be allowed individual choice?
Changing an entire culture will only happen as the younger generation becomes disenchanted with it or finds a preference without it. You can't change a whole group of people who's custom is so engrained.
Imagine if people started coming up to you and told you that your activities were harmful to the women's movement. How hard it would be for you to accept that it was harmful and secondly to find the desire to change what you are doing to suit someone else's ideals.
I'm saying it's not a clear road of just subjugation. Their religion (and most do have this natural order in them) works for them, no matter what your views are on it.
Changing an entire culture will only happen as the younger generation becomes disenchanted with it or finds a preference without it. You can't change a whole group of people who's custom is so engrained.
Imagine if people started coming up to you and told you that your activities were harmful to the women's movement. How hard it would be for you to accept that it was harmful and secondly to find the desire to change what you are doing to suit someone else's ideals.
I'm saying it's not a clear road of just subjugation. Their religion (and most do have this natural order in them) works for them, no matter what your views are on it.
Sadly their religion does NOT work for them, and the numbers back me up. They are dying and being abused in record numbers. Even those who "choose" it, do so because they are indoctrinated into the religion. The penalty for disobeying and NOT choosing??
Death.
That doesn't sound like working to me.
As far as not changing them all at once, I agree.
The first step though is talking about it, and condemning it in conversation.
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Veritaas: Ayan Hirsi Ali - a great women of strength and willpower. She renounced her religion - well done openchick, you are one of the few who seem to know of this woman or even read about her on CS.
denounced. she rejected Islam, read her book called Infadel (My Life). She also made a movie called "Submission".
She brings home alot of truth.
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sindhiboy: Is it not against human rights to banned the burqa in any country ?
Isn't it against human rights for cowardly men to hide woman in a 'burqa' because they feel insecure????? HUMAN/HUWOMAN RIGHTS
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sideshowbob: Isn't it against human rights for cowardly men to hide woman in a 'burqa' because they feel insecure????? HUMAN/HUWOMAN RIGHTS
Lets get facts right- the burqa has Nothing at all to do with religion, drink and be Mary
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Veritaas: There were times when I had to put down that book, take a breath and come back to it, it was horrific what she suffered and her sister too.
It is very open and gives a very real view of what it is like in that society. Not that we need such accounts to see the evil that Islam represents, but it sure brings it home!
The fact that people actually defend this is beyond me!
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sideshowbob: Lets get facts right- the burqa has Nothing at all to do with religion, drink and be Mary
The Burqa DOES have to do with religion (although it is not commanded in the Quran) as it is a religious tradition. Without the religion, there would be no Burqa.
If it has nothing to do with religion then why is the head of the Islamic council of Canada pleading with Imams all over the world to abandon the burqa because of the harm it does?
ALthough I can agree with your eat drink and be merry. :)
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openchick: It is very open and gives a very real view of what it is like in that society. Not that we need such accounts to see the evil that Islam represents, but it sure brings it home!
The fact that people actually defend this is beyond me!
The fact that people actually defend this is beyond me!
NO NO NO, Islam is a religion ie not all Muslims are suicide bombers as in not all suicidal canadians are muslims
I wish we were all as righteous as you
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sideshowbob: NO NO NO, Islam is a religion ie not all Muslims are suicide bombers as in not all suicidal canadians are muslims
I wish we were all as righteous as you
I wish we were all as righteous as you
Where did I say ANYTHING about suicide bombers??
It has become the fashion to defend Islam, but read their own book, and then come to me and defend it.
It commands killing of ANYONE who doesn't agree with their ways.
It gives rules for beating your wife
It gives rules for hatred of those who hold the dominion of islam back
Aside from its inherent evils and immorality, for you to suggest that religion is above reproach is immoral and you should be ashamed.
No one would suggest with any amount of seriousness that it was wrong to criticize political ideologies, or social ideologies. That would be ludicrous. So why are religious ideologies protected from that same critique?
Because it is soself righteous, sanctimonious, and arrogant (and so are the people who defend it solely because it is "religion") to feel that it is so grand, so great, and so august an institution that it is immune to critique for its mistakes and immoralities.
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openchick: Where did I say ANYTHING about suicide bombers??
It has become the fashion to defend Islam, but read their own book, and then come to me and defend it.
It commands killing of ANYONE who doesn't agree with their ways.
It gives rules for beating your wife
It gives rules for hatred of those who hold the dominion of islam back
Aside from its inherent evils and immorality, for you to suggest that religion is above reproach is immoral and you should be ashamed.
No one would suggest with any amount of seriousness that it was wrong to criticize political ideologies, or social ideologies. That would be ludicrous. So why are religious ideologies protected from that same critique?
Because it is soself righteous, sanctimonious, and arrogant (and so are the people who defend it solely because it is "religion") to feel that it is so grand, so great, and so august an institution that it is immune to critique for its mistakes and immoralities.
It has become the fashion to defend Islam, but read their own book, and then come to me and defend it.
It commands killing of ANYONE who doesn't agree with their ways.
It gives rules for beating your wife
It gives rules for hatred of those who hold the dominion of islam back
Aside from its inherent evils and immorality, for you to suggest that religion is above reproach is immoral and you should be ashamed.
No one would suggest with any amount of seriousness that it was wrong to criticize political ideologies, or social ideologies. That would be ludicrous. So why are religious ideologies protected from that same critique?
Because it is soself righteous, sanctimonious, and arrogant (and so are the people who defend it solely because it is "religion") to feel that it is so grand, so great, and so august an institution that it is immune to critique for its mistakes and immoralities.
HA HA, whats your religion? Your soooooo right. Where abouts do we sign up for your bible. Actually your referring to infidels when you mention muslims/christians etc etc. Arrogance is inevitable when your ignorant. It's more about you dont you think
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sideshowbob: HA HA, whats your religion? Your soooooo right. Where abouts do we sign up for your bible. Actually your referring to infidels when you mention muslims/christians etc etc. Arrogance is inevitable when your ignorant. It's more about you dont you think Thank GOD for YOU
I don't have a religion. You cna have it.
Actually, I am referring to Muslims and Christians when I speak of Muslims and christians. Infidels (or Kafir) are merely the term for non islamic people according to the Quran (generally used for Christians, Jews and Atheists)
I am not asking ANYONE to asacribe to my beliefs but I AM asking cowards to stop protecting religions and beliefs that do HARM!
Clearly it is not about me. Read a book.
There are women DYING and being terribly abused each day. Read the Quran, read the newspaper, read their own literature, listen to the Imams who defend beating their wives....
yea, it MUST be about me.
It is about me being outraged that people IGNORE the human rights abuses just so that they can appear tolerant of religion.
You are right, arrogance IS inevitable when you are ignorant.
So go solve the problem and read a book or two. Find out what is REALLY happening.
Not sure why you keep ignoring the issue of human rights abuses, and why you keep thinking that mocking is another form of intellectual conversation, or debate.
Very effective I must say.
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morgan5: In Pakistan can women go everywhere without needing to cover their hair or their bodies, if their can i am very suprized
Sure ,dont you know that.
women here are very independent they can go every where ,No need to cover the hairs or face also they can wear anything
Why provide information that is not true about your own country??
It is a well known fact that in rural areas (as stated in your profile this is a place where you reside) women are not even going to do groceries alone, they are covered also from head to toe there. Their brothers are splashing dirt on their cars so that a woman is not seen.
Does anyone wear miniskirts and open dresses in Pakistan??
Pls, don't make people laugh here with your stories about Pakistan.
Sure ,dont you know that.
women here are very independent they can go every where ,No need to cover the hairs or face also they can wear anything
Why provide information that is not true about your own country??
It is a well known fact that in rural areas (as stated in your profile this is a place where you reside) women are not even going to do groceries alone, they are covered also from head to toe there. Their brothers are splashing dirt on their cars so that a woman is not seen.
Does anyone wear miniskirts and open dresses in Pakistan??
Pls, don't make people laugh here with your stories about Pakistan.
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openchick: I don't have a religion. You cna have it.
Actually, I am referring to Muslims and Christians when I speak of Muslims and christians. Infidels (or Kafir) are merely the term for non islamic people according to the Quran (generally used for Christians, Jews and Atheists)
I am not asking ANYONE to asacribe to my beliefs but I AM asking cowards to stop protecting religions and beliefs that do HARM!
Clearly it is not about me. Read a book.
There are women DYING and being terribly abused each day. Read the Quran, read the newspaper, read their own literature, listen to the Imams who defend beating their wives....
yea, it MUST be about me.
It is about me being outraged that people IGNORE the human rights abuses just so that they can appear tolerant of religion.
You are right, arrogance IS inevitable when you are ignorant.
So go solve the problem and read a book or two. Find out what is REALLY happening.
Not sure why you keep ignoring the issue of human rights abuses, and why you keep thinking that mocking is another form of intellectual conversation, or debate.
Very effective I must say.
Actually, I am referring to Muslims and Christians when I speak of Muslims and christians. Infidels (or Kafir) are merely the term for non islamic people according to the Quran (generally used for Christians, Jews and Atheists)
I am not asking ANYONE to asacribe to my beliefs but I AM asking cowards to stop protecting religions and beliefs that do HARM!
Clearly it is not about me. Read a book.
There are women DYING and being terribly abused each day. Read the Quran, read the newspaper, read their own literature, listen to the Imams who defend beating their wives....
yea, it MUST be about me.
It is about me being outraged that people IGNORE the human rights abuses just so that they can appear tolerant of religion.
You are right, arrogance IS inevitable when you are ignorant.
So go solve the problem and read a book or two. Find out what is REALLY happening.
Not sure why you keep ignoring the issue of human rights abuses, and why you keep thinking that mocking is another form of intellectual conversation, or debate.
Very effective I must say.
Pass, ignorance is bliss, good night. Rest that little head of yours
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TO ARMS!!!!
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marisata: morgan5: In Pakistan can women go everywhere without needing to cover their hair or their bodies, if their can i am very suprized
Sure ,dont you know that.
women here are very independent they can go every where ,No need to cover the hairs or face also they can wear anything Why provide information that is not true about your own country??
It is a well known fact that in rural areas (as stated in your profile this is a place where you reside) women are not even going to do groceries alone, they are covered also from head to toe there. Their brothers are splashing dirt on their cars so that a woman is not seen.
Does anyone wear miniskirts and open dresses in Pakistan??
Pls, don't make people laugh here with your stories about Pakistan.
Sure ,dont you know that.
women here are very independent they can go every where ,No need to cover the hairs or face also they can wear anything Why provide information that is not true about your own country??
It is a well known fact that in rural areas (as stated in your profile this is a place where you reside) women are not even going to do groceries alone, they are covered also from head to toe there. Their brothers are splashing dirt on their cars so that a woman is not seen.
Does anyone wear miniskirts and open dresses in Pakistan??
Pls, don't make people laugh here with your stories about Pakistan.
I have asked this question before on this thread with no response.
Have you or anyone else been to Pakistan?
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bodleing: I have asked this question before on this thread with no response.
Have you or anyone else been to Pakistan?
Have you or anyone else been to Pakistan?
I have, as well as India and Nepal. I tried going to Tibet but I wasn't given a visa. When silly morally righteous little girls like what ever her name was that has never been out of her own comfort zone starts preaching makes me laugh
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sideshowbob: Discuss ISSUES?, seriously now, you have issues, as I said before-- it's more about YOU. Would you consider yourself hip or hop You have serious delusional problems, do you hate the world or just me (oh the injustice)
GOD BLESS YOU FOR SHOWING US ALL OUR INEQUITIES, I strive to be just like you- so warm, compassionate and loving
GOD BLESS YOU FOR SHOWING US ALL OUR INEQUITIES, I strive to be just like you- so warm, compassionate and loving
Clearly avoiding the issue again.
If you can't see that women DYING is a problem, then I would suggest that you have more problems than you ability to debate.
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openchick: Clearly avoiding the issue again.
If you can't see that women DYING is a problem, then I would suggest that you have more problems than you ability to debate.
If you can't see that women DYING is a problem, then I would suggest that you have more problems than you ability to debate.
OK, you win, by the way-- have you ever travelled?? judging by your comments obviously not. Well done, your a winner
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sideshowbob: I have, as well as India and Nepal. I tried going to Tibet but I wasn't given a visa. When silly morally righteous little girls like what ever her name was that has never been out of her own comfort zone starts preaching makes me laugh
First; Did you feel that you need to be well travelled to be able to comment on the rwandan genocides? Likely not, so why must I be well travelled here? I have shown the numbers, and I have cited sources for human rights abuses and you avoid the questions, while throwing out insults like "silly morally self righteous girls" and you figure that makes you knowledgable??
You clearly have no care for the dead, dying and abused.
Well done Mr. Tolerance and understanding.
People who protect religion instead of their fellow human beings make me laugh.
Second; I was a medic in the military and have been WAY outside your comfort zone. Ever been to afghanistan? No? Ever been to the middle east? No? Ever even SEEN war or bullets or the real time effects of what is ACTUALLY happening in the world Mr Well travelled?
Next time you make assumptions, make sure that you are not making them blindly.
;)
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The ban France is discussing is actually only in certain public places and government establishments...not a total ban.
Lest we all forget, when we visit another country or live in that country, especially muslim ones, they have rules and regulations which include dresswear..Saudi Arabia for example.
Thats actually the best thing I have heard here
In almost every Country there is a law which obligate us to have the seatbelt on while driving....I don`t understand who am I putting in danger if I don`t wear it... but... I have to live with it.... or chose a Country which has`nt got that law