The U.S., At It Again..Or Should I Say, STILL At It!! (251)
BellaTheRebel48: "Horrific Medical Tests Of Past Raise Concerns For Today"
"The astounding revelation that U.S. medical researchers intentionally gave Guatemalans gonorrhea and syphilis more than 60 years ago is so horrifying that we want to believe that what happened then could never happen today."
"In recent years, there has been a steady shift of clinical research from testing in the U.S. and other developed nations to the developing world."
On May 16, 1997 former President Bill Clinton apologized to the eight remaining survivors of the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment.
Now, according to Fox News and a mere 13 years later:Reports indicate that Clinton(not the former president)telephoned President Alvaro Colom to apologize for the Guatemalan STD study. President Colom expressed his anger and outrage.
Tuskegee experiment deja vu U.S. apologizes for Guatemalan STD study
On another note:
Photos Show U.S. Soldiers Posing With Afghan Corpses
"Those who have seen the photos say they are grisly:soldiers beside newly killed bodies, decaying corpses and severed fingers."
"Troops allegedly shared the photos by email and thumb drive like electronic trading cards. Now 60-70 of them are being kept tightly shielded from the public and even defense attorneys because of fears they could wind up in the news media and provoke anti-American violence."
So, in other words, the U.S. is still stuck in "business as usual" mode. Oh, well...some things NEVER change!
"The astounding revelation that U.S. medical researchers intentionally gave Guatemalans gonorrhea and syphilis more than 60 years ago is so horrifying that we want to believe that what happened then could never happen today."
"In recent years, there has been a steady shift of clinical research from testing in the U.S. and other developed nations to the developing world."
On May 16, 1997 former President Bill Clinton apologized to the eight remaining survivors of the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment.
Now, according to Fox News and a mere 13 years later:Reports indicate that Clinton(not the former president)telephoned President Alvaro Colom to apologize for the Guatemalan STD study. President Colom expressed his anger and outrage.
Tuskegee experiment deja vu U.S. apologizes for Guatemalan STD study
On another note:
Photos Show U.S. Soldiers Posing With Afghan Corpses
"Those who have seen the photos say they are grisly:soldiers beside newly killed bodies, decaying corpses and severed fingers."
"Troops allegedly shared the photos by email and thumb drive like electronic trading cards. Now 60-70 of them are being kept tightly shielded from the public and even defense attorneys because of fears they could wind up in the news media and provoke anti-American violence."
So, in other words, the U.S. is still stuck in "business as usual" mode. Oh, well...some things NEVER change!
Every nation has it's hoodlums, even out military, just like every other nation.
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Need to lay it square at the CIC!
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BellaTheRebel48: Minnesota isn't pristine clean. Minneapolis ...extremely polluted lakes.
... Our drinking water is polluted. ... every shopping cart is filled with bottled water or water filters.
..........
...The FDA is a joke... Time after time, medicines have been approved for the public only to have been known by the FDA and the pharma companies to cause horrific side effects and even death, but they have been approved anyway.
...........
...many people had suffered horrible side effects that the drug companies knew about and yet marketed them as safe drugs.
... Our drinking water is polluted. ... every shopping cart is filled with bottled water or water filters.
..........
...The FDA is a joke... Time after time, medicines have been approved for the public only to have been known by the FDA and the pharma companies to cause horrific side effects and even death, but they have been approved anyway.
...........
...many people had suffered horrible side effects that the drug companies knew about and yet marketed them as safe drugs.
I'm not extremely knowledgeable on the above, however:
1)Overwhelming majority(not all)bottled waters are a hoax themselves. Local consumer reports pointed out most come from Dallas, TX municipal water system.. has basically same standards & test results as municipal water system right here in OKC; that is, tap water.
Info is Not hidden. Checked out labels at the store on brand name & generic -Right there, back label stated it was from Dallas Municipal Water System.(I use a water filter myself.)
2)In the past,I was a member of C.Science in the Public Interest. While some useful info & work is going on(I later learned thru the type of smart research methods posted earlier on this thread, or sim. thread by Bluesman63, & more) nearly all such groups exaggerate & take test results(often flawed b/c of the way the research was conducted)out of context, the very context they used in their own testing.
...referring to this quote here: ..to have been known by the FDA and the pharma companies to cause horrific side effects and even death, but they have been approved anyway.
When you get a prescription filled, read a PDR(Physician's Desk Reference) or prescr. "pillbook", it state's side effects, some severe, even resulting in death, Can occur & have occurred, in rare cases, during initial testing.
H/E, in the quote I put in bold, it's worded to appear horrific side effects & deaths occurring in testing stage were in huge amounts & hidden from the public, when, in fact, it's right there in the info sheet w/the script, the very same side effects, & possibility of death, as listed in the PDR. Also says to call dr. or pharmacist immediately if you experience any moderate to severe effect listed. (Most TV ads for new meds. mention the possibility, in rare cases, of death. Also true when you sign a consent form to undergo anesthesia.)
While there are lawsuits against the FDA truly warranted, many quotes on this thread coming from "research" groups have inaccurate or incomplete conclusions, & skewed, way out of proportion, to the particular groups' biases.
3)When a new drug tested shows signs of promise -that is, volunteers(yes,they're real -know some personally; universities, etc. often have ads on radio & TV re: current studies needing volunteers)have had some great results, IMMEDIATELY people beg for the medication.
While I think the FDA is far from pristine(it's similar to biased researchers quoted in some of this thread- one exaggerates safety, the other exag. danger),they do always say they have to wait til all testing is done before drug is available-for effectiveness, safety, etc.
So what occurs then?
.. many people end up finding the drug in another country that has less strict standards, & buy it there, b/c they don't want to wait on the FDA.My Point: there are some Real truths in the allegations in this thread..., but a lot more unscientific, inaccurate conclusions, theories, & often, unreliable research posted as well. (not to mention insults to those who post saying so- I haven't been paid to post, & I'm not stupid.. yes, I can prove both- the latter w/my IQ test)
*Note-would like to see OP, or anyone, really, report on the state of things in a few other locations beyond the U.S. in order to get a more balanced view of the world around us.
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outdoorgirlsun: Every nation has it's hoodlums, even out military, just like every other nation.
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Conrad73: Need to lay it square at the CIC!
"dubai"
just wanted to remind!
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strict: "dubai"
just wanted to remind!
Yes,you better!just wanted to remind!
Not hearing a thing about it otherwise!
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BellaTheRebel48: Minnesota isn't pristine clean. Minneapolis is the city of 10,000 filthy, extremely polluted lakes.
Our top soil is full of arsenic. Our drinking water is polluted. One would think that with so much water here, one wouldn't go into a grocery store and every shopping cart is filled with bottled water or water filters.
The 3M plant has polluted the entire state. Google it!
Chemicals produced by 3M have been found in polar bears.
A local reporter had his blood tested for the chemicals that are byproducts of 3M produced goods and his blood was found to have every single chemical. We're practically glowing in the dark here!
Our top soil is full of arsenic. Our drinking water is polluted. One would think that with so much water here, one wouldn't go into a grocery store and every shopping cart is filled with bottled water or water filters.
The 3M plant has polluted the entire state. Google it!
Chemicals produced by 3M have been found in polar bears.
A local reporter had his blood tested for the chemicals that are byproducts of 3M produced goods and his blood was found to have every single chemical. We're practically glowing in the dark here!
I was joking Bella...it was a joke.
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Conrad73: Yes,you better!
Not hearing a thing about it otherwise!
Not hearing a thing about it otherwise!
ever heard of that "peace keeper" named Hasan Nasrollah?
and as a typical impression of the nine"
"
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strict: ever heard of that "peace keeper" named Hasan Nasrollah?
and as a typical impression of the nine" "
He'll meet his Fate!and as a typical impression of the nine" "
Maybe in Damascus,maybe in Tehran,maybe in the Emirates or Beirut,somewhere somebody will be waiting for him!
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Conrad73: He'll meet his Fate!
Maybe in Damascus,maybe in Tehran,maybe in the Emirates or Beirut,somewhere somebody will be waiting for him!
Maybe in Damascus,maybe in Tehran,maybe in the Emirates or Beirut,somewhere somebody will be waiting for him!
who?
you mean hasan or
the nine
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ironman57321: Sir,don't presume to know what I do or don't concur with.You don't have a clue.
If you don't know what fairness is then man that's just sad.On your politics,I believe I've figured out which side your bread is buttered on there,That's fine.That's why voting booths have curtains on them.
In all truthfulness,I don't know how you would treat 4 billion people excactly the same,I never said you could.I was trying to see if I could learn to cut and paste and (quantify) equality.
Dictionary.com does not have a definition for quantify. Have a blessed day.
If you don't know what fairness is then man that's just sad.On your politics,I believe I've figured out which side your bread is buttered on there,That's fine.That's why voting booths have curtains on them.
In all truthfulness,I don't know how you would treat 4 billion people excactly the same,I never said you could.I was trying to see if I could learn to cut and paste and (quantify) equality.
Dictionary.com does not have a definition for quantify. Have a blessed day.
You have a blessed day too.
I don't know a liberal that can honestly answer how you treat everyone on the planet equally. It's a pie in the sky dream that sounds good at Democrat Conventions. It revs up the base.
Fair, in the end, is what any one person thinks it is at a given moment. Fair can change from day to day.
I'm not picking on you at all sir. I've heard the fairness argument so many times on here that it makes me
I do appreciate you responding though!
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Conrad73: Interesting who is sitting on the Board of that NGO!
Robert S. Lawrence, MD
Chairman of the Board
Frank Davidoff, MD
Vice Chair
Eli Adashi, MD
Brown University
Deborah D. Ascheim, MD
Columbia University
Marion J. Bergman, MD, MPA
Miracle Corners of the World, Inc.
Troy Brennan, MD
CVS Caremark Corporation
Katy Close, MD, MPH
University of South Carolina School of Medicine
Carola Eisenberg, MD
Harvard Medical School
H. Jack Geiger, MD, M Sci Hyg
City University of New York Medical School
Justice Richard J. Goldstone
Justice of the South African Constitutional Court, Retired
Ali Khan
Medical Student, Virginia Commonwealth University
Joel Lamstein
President, John Snow, Inc. (JSI); President, World Education, Inc.
Adam Richards, MD, MPH
Robert Wood Johnson Clinical Scholars Fellow,
University of California, Los Angeles
Anne Stetson, JD, MIA
Lighthouse Consulting
Gerson Smoger, PhD, JD
Smoger and Associates, PC
what else?
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deadbutwhy: Robert S. Lawrence, MD
Chairman of the Board
Frank Davidoff, MD
Vice Chair
Eli Adashi, MD
Brown University
Deborah D. Ascheim, MD
Columbia University
Marion J. Bergman, MD, MPA
Miracle Corners of the World, Inc.
Troy Brennan, MD
CVS Caremark Corporation
Katy Close, MD, MPH
University of South Carolina School of Medicine
Carola Eisenberg, MD
Harvard Medical School
H. Jack Geiger, MD, M Sci Hyg
City University of New York Medical School
Justice Richard J. Goldstone
Justice of the South African Constitutional Court, Retired
Ali Khan
Medical Student, Virginia Commonwealth University
Joel Lamstein
President, John Snow, Inc. (JSI); President, World Education, Inc.
Adam Richards, MD, MPH
Robert Wood Johnson Clinical Scholars Fellow,
University of California, Los Angeles
Anne Stetson, JD, MIA
Lighthouse Consulting
Gerson Smoger, PhD, JD
Smoger and Associates, PCwhat else?
Goldstone for one,haven't checked on the other ones yet!Chairman of the Board
Frank Davidoff, MD
Vice Chair
Eli Adashi, MD
Brown University
Deborah D. Ascheim, MD
Columbia University
Marion J. Bergman, MD, MPA
Miracle Corners of the World, Inc.
Troy Brennan, MD
CVS Caremark Corporation
Katy Close, MD, MPH
University of South Carolina School of Medicine
Carola Eisenberg, MD
Harvard Medical School
H. Jack Geiger, MD, M Sci Hyg
City University of New York Medical School
Justice Richard J. Goldstone
Justice of the South African Constitutional Court, Retired
Ali Khan
Medical Student, Virginia Commonwealth University
Joel Lamstein
President, John Snow, Inc. (JSI); President, World Education, Inc.
Adam Richards, MD, MPH
Robert Wood Johnson Clinical Scholars Fellow,
University of California, Los Angeles
Anne Stetson, JD, MIA
Lighthouse Consulting
Gerson Smoger, PhD, JD
Smoger and Associates, PCwhat else?
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Conrad73: Goldstone for one,haven't checked on the other ones yet!
what about him, conrad?
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Conrad73: Goldstone for one,haven't checked on the other ones yet!
I guess you have problems with the Goldstone report... which has been endorsed on 16 October 2009 by a UNHRC resolution by a vote of 114 in favour to 18 against, with 44 abstentions, and also independently by the European parliament.
Sure, Israel and the US are crying foul. The fact of the matter is that Goldstone, a Zionist, is highly regarded worldwide for his work e.g. in apartheid South Africa and the prosecutions of Karadzic and Mladic.
Here is what a Jewish former supreme court justice, Albie Sachs, said about Goldstone: "any Jew who speaks out with an independent voice, especially with the conduct of the State of Israel, is regarded as a self-hating Jew ... Why should someone be made to choose between being a Jew and having a conscience?"
from wiki.
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deadbutwhy: I guess you have problems with the Goldstone report... which has been endorsed on 16 October 2009 by a UNHRC resolution by a vote of 114 in favour to 18 against, with 44 abstentions, and also independently by the European parliament.
Sure, Israel and the US are crying foul. The fact of the matter is that Goldstone, a Zionist, is highly regarded worldwide for his work e.g. in apartheid South Africa and the prosecutions of Karadzic and Mladic.
Here is what a Jewish former supreme court justice, Albie Sachs, said about Goldstone: "any Jew who speaks out with an independent voice, especially with the conduct of the State of Israel, is regarded as a self-hating Jew ... Why should someone be made to choose between being a Jew and having a conscience?"
from wiki.
What you posted after my quote doesn't have anything to do with my quote. I asked how OPs post about drug companies being sued by the U.S. government showed the government was still at it.Sure, Israel and the US are crying foul. The fact of the matter is that Goldstone, a Zionist, is highly regarded worldwide for his work e.g. in apartheid South Africa and the prosecutions of Karadzic and Mladic.
Here is what a Jewish former supreme court justice, Albie Sachs, said about Goldstone: "any Jew who speaks out with an independent voice, especially with the conduct of the State of Israel, is regarded as a self-hating Jew ... Why should someone be made to choose between being a Jew and having a conscience?"
from wiki.
Also, my previous post on here:
Conrad73: ...
Now strat talking about the Atrocities committed by Janjaweed,Taliban,etc!
You're taking Cheap Shots at a Country that prosecutes Stuff like that,and clam up about Countries that do not!
...
While I believe power abuses began almost from the start, it is no different than power anywhere.
While this country has things to be truly ashamed of, it has far more to be proud of. (I could come up with pages upon pages of great acts, life-changing inventions, sacrifice for others here & abroad, & generosity at every level that can be attributed to this great country.) Yes, any horrendous acts committed by some in this country, should be brought to light & wrongs made right if possible. (My own family has been affected by at least a couple of government experiments done without our knowledge or consent.)
But to bring these things up as if only the U.S. is ever at fault, while ignoring the enormous atrocities committed by mankind where ever there is power all over this world... all I can say is, on that note I agree with Conrad.
The U.S. was & is one of the most generous countries in the world.
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(My reply in my previous post begins with the thumbs-up icon)
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SCatlyn: (My reply in my previous post begins with the thumbs-up icon)
OkI'm not saying US is the only country doing unethical medical experiments. I just happen to care and know more about the US, having lived in there for a lovely 9 years. It's when you care about a country that you can be disappointed by it. As MLK said: I'm disappointed with America, but I remember there can be no great disappointment where there is no love. I'm very often disappointed by Greece too, being Greek myself, but most posters here wouldn't care about it, because Greece is a small country with limited influence.
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What you posted after my quote doesn't have anything to do with my quote. I asked how OPs post about drug companies being sued by the U.S. government showed the government was still at it.
Also, my previous post on here:
Conrad73: ...
Now strat talking about the Atrocities committed by Janjaweed,Taliban,etc!
You're taking Cheap Shots at a Country that prosecutes Stuff like that,and clam up about Countries that do not!
...
The U.S. government is still at it. As you must know, the U.S. government is made up of many government agencies, the FDA for one, which part of its responsibility is to see that medicines are safe for the general public. The FDA has a history of not delving deep enough into whether the pharma company research studies for new drugs have been thorough enough and are suitable for what the medicine is intended to treat or what the pharma companies claim.
Despite the fact that the government is suing pharma companies, the U.S. government knew that certain drugs were harmful and had side effects that included death. Eli Lilly knew that Zyprexa caused diabetes, pancreatitis, ketoacidosis, hyperglycemia and even death and hid this. The FDA issued a "doctor letter" in 2002 advising all doctors about these potential devastating side effects and yet, the drug is still being administered to patients. This drug is for people who are psychotic and may not fully understand the ramifications of taking this drug. Since this drug has the potential to cause diabetes, which can lead to limb loss and death, why not take it off the market instead of just suing the pharma companies? Could it be to offset monies lost to federal and state coffers drained by the recession, not to mention drained by federal and state health care programs that have taken a deep cut due to massive unemployment in the U.S. So, on the one hand the U.S. government is suing the pharma company, but on the other is still allowing these dangerous drugs to continue to be prescribed.
Maybe, I should not have included the post about the pharma companies being sued, but the fact of the matter is they are being sued by states also because the states have had to eat the cost of medical care for the people who developed serious complications from taking this medication.
I, maintain that the U.S. is still at it as I stated in MY thread topic because the U.S apologized to the remaining survivors of The Tuskegee Experiment and a mere 13 years later on October 1st apologized for the Guatemalan STD study. Even though these studies were conducted years ago, the apologizing is continuing.
What country will receive the next apology? When will the next U.S. government research study become public knowledge, another one so gruesome that the U.S. government will be compelled to issue yet another apology.
I truly hope that there are not more of these such studies that are about to become public knowledge. Enough is enough!
The 2nd part of why I stated that the U.S. is still at is because obviously, we learned nothing from the Iraq Abu Ghraib prison torture photos if U.S. soldiers are in Afghanistan killing innocent Afghan civilians, cutting off body parts, posing with the torn up corpses and then emailing them to each other.
Yes, the U.S. is still at it and I stand by my thread title and will continue to do so. Feel free to find fault in any of my threads or posts, I will still post as I see fit as I don't seek approval from anyone as to why I post what I post and that includes you!
Also, my previous post on here:
Conrad73: ...
Now strat talking about the Atrocities committed by Janjaweed,Taliban,etc!
You're taking Cheap Shots at a Country that prosecutes Stuff like that,and clam up about Countries that do not!
...
The U.S. government is still at it. As you must know, the U.S. government is made up of many government agencies, the FDA for one, which part of its responsibility is to see that medicines are safe for the general public. The FDA has a history of not delving deep enough into whether the pharma company research studies for new drugs have been thorough enough and are suitable for what the medicine is intended to treat or what the pharma companies claim.
Despite the fact that the government is suing pharma companies, the U.S. government knew that certain drugs were harmful and had side effects that included death. Eli Lilly knew that Zyprexa caused diabetes, pancreatitis, ketoacidosis, hyperglycemia and even death and hid this. The FDA issued a "doctor letter" in 2002 advising all doctors about these potential devastating side effects and yet, the drug is still being administered to patients. This drug is for people who are psychotic and may not fully understand the ramifications of taking this drug. Since this drug has the potential to cause diabetes, which can lead to limb loss and death, why not take it off the market instead of just suing the pharma companies? Could it be to offset monies lost to federal and state coffers drained by the recession, not to mention drained by federal and state health care programs that have taken a deep cut due to massive unemployment in the U.S. So, on the one hand the U.S. government is suing the pharma company, but on the other is still allowing these dangerous drugs to continue to be prescribed.
Maybe, I should not have included the post about the pharma companies being sued, but the fact of the matter is they are being sued by states also because the states have had to eat the cost of medical care for the people who developed serious complications from taking this medication.
I, maintain that the U.S. is still at it as I stated in MY thread topic because the U.S apologized to the remaining survivors of The Tuskegee Experiment and a mere 13 years later on October 1st apologized for the Guatemalan STD study. Even though these studies were conducted years ago, the apologizing is continuing.
What country will receive the next apology? When will the next U.S. government research study become public knowledge, another one so gruesome that the U.S. government will be compelled to issue yet another apology.
I truly hope that there are not more of these such studies that are about to become public knowledge. Enough is enough!
The 2nd part of why I stated that the U.S. is still at is because obviously, we learned nothing from the Iraq Abu Ghraib prison torture photos if U.S. soldiers are in Afghanistan killing innocent Afghan civilians, cutting off body parts, posing with the torn up corpses and then emailing them to each other.
Yes, the U.S. is still at it and I stand by my thread title and will continue to do so. Feel free to find fault in any of my threads or posts, I will still post as I see fit as I don't seek approval from anyone as to why I post what I post and that includes you!
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Countless lawsuits have been filed and are still being filed over numerous drugs that have caused people to die needlessly when it was already known that the drugs were dangerous.
So you admit that this sort of thing is viewed as illegal by the government and they do what they can to prosecute and stop it.
Good. So what is the problem now?