life and death--for the atheist (295)
mak_uits: intelligent people search the source of a concerned matter, not at articles written by others.
It's impossible to search the source (in the case of religion) when no "source" has ever been proven. Even the Bible and Quran are nothing more than individual interpretations of events which may or may not have occurred. The Bible and Quran were written by others. No person, organization, or religious order has ever proven that what is contained in those texts is anything more than ancient stories and fables.
Every human being has a right to their own beliefs.
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For me, organized religion (and they were all the creations of man) is nothing more than a curiosity. I've never received any comfort or peace of mind or "prayerful" answers from anything supernatural. And yes, all religions are based on the supernatural. A divine being who created, and is in control of, everything? That's as supernatural as it gets.
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imsophie1: For me, organized religion (and they were all the creations of man) is nothing more than a curiosity. I've never received any comfort or peace of mind or "prayerful" answers from anything supernatural. And yes, all religions are based on the supernatural. A divine being who created, and is in control of, everything? That's as supernatural as it gets.
I agree with you on the subject of organised religion and have turned my back on them (I was brought up Catholic).
As for divine energy, my personal experiences have shown me there´s more than meets the eye when it comes to what we call reality and what exists and what doesn´t.
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imsophie1: For me, organized religion (and they were all the creations of man) is nothing more than a curiosity. I've never received any comfort or peace of mind or "prayerful" answers from anything supernatural. And yes, all religions are based on the supernatural. A divine being who created, and is in control of, everything? That's as supernatural as it gets.
Without getting in the debate of Christain, Jew, Moslem, Budhist or any other God that different people believe in, the question is that Athiests truly 'BELIEVE' that there is NO God in light of some "logical" and "scientific" questions they usually present. Which is understandable. Ofcourse there has to be some answer. But if the right question is asked, only then a right answer may be sought. A wrong question with a right answer doesn't serve the purpose of the debate in question.
So I have some questions too.
Let's start with the very basics here. There is no power in the world known to mankind that can 'produce' anything in its basic form. Let's say a strand of your hair. Can anyone produce it even after the great scientific advancements? Or let's say DNA code, let alone writing it, the deciphering took a long time for mankind. Let's say, the perfect balance of the universe, the perfect orbital motion of planets on our solar system, the 63 degree's tilt of earth on it's axis. The layers (spheres) covering the earth protecting from Sun's radiation. How could this great plan come into place without some supreme intelligence writing it and making it happen?
What is the spirit, that inhabits your body and makes it work? why can't we still live on a ventilator or live suport machines when the spirit is gone? Surely the heart pumps blood and ample oxygen keeps the brain cells alive. Why don't we live then?
Why are you so intelligent? Why don't you have a rooster's brain? How come evolution of intelligence only worked on mankind and not on other species? Why are cockroaches not the leaders of the world?
Our world, universe, is hanging in such a delicate balance, that if it were not in control of some supreme authority, it would have disintegrated long ago. What do you think? (Logically)
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Why do people always question the obvious ,why is the sky blue?why does the sun shine etc,etc, well 99%of the world population knows nothing about mans purpose on the physical universe ,where we came from? our purpose(s) here and upon death where we are going to ,pls visit this site for more spiritual enlightenment -- and my the bless be
EagleWoman: How do YOU know the Quran is the original scriptures? Where you there to witness it? Or did you just read that somewhere?
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lonelyemma: Why do people always question the obvious ,why is the sky blue?why does the sun shine etc,etc, well 99%of the world population knows nothing about mans purpose on the physical universe ,where we came from? our purpose(s) here and upon death where we are going to ,pls visit this site for more spiritual enlightenment -- and my the bless be
I do my own work for my spiritual enlightenment, thank you.
Does taking a part of my post out of the context it was written in and making it sound like something it´s not, make you feel spiritually enlightened?
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Lets take the first question Max.
Let's start with the very basics here. There is no power in the world known to mankind that can 'produce' anything in its basic form. Let's say a strand of your hair. Can anyone produce it even after the great scientific advancements? Or let's say DNA code, let alone writing it, the deciphering took a long time for mankind. Let's say, the perfect balance of the universe, the perfect orbital motion of planets on our solar system, the 63 degree's tilt of earth on it's axis. The layers (spheres) covering the earth protecting from Sun's radiation. How could this great plan come into place without some supreme intelligence writing it and making it happen?
1 Electrical Storms, Lightning have produce Millions of Kilowatts of Energy
2 The action of the Moons GRAVITY sends Hundreds of Billions of gallons of water all around the world.
3 The Universe is what it is an imperfect part of which our tiny wee it is affected by the Gravity of all around us. And that also accounts for the "perfect tilt" of the earth. Which Max has changed many times over the existance of Earth.
Like I said before Facts baffle you.
Let's start with the very basics here. There is no power in the world known to mankind that can 'produce' anything in its basic form. Let's say a strand of your hair. Can anyone produce it even after the great scientific advancements? Or let's say DNA code, let alone writing it, the deciphering took a long time for mankind. Let's say, the perfect balance of the universe, the perfect orbital motion of planets on our solar system, the 63 degree's tilt of earth on it's axis. The layers (spheres) covering the earth protecting from Sun's radiation. How could this great plan come into place without some supreme intelligence writing it and making it happen?
1 Electrical Storms, Lightning have produce Millions of Kilowatts of Energy
2 The action of the Moons GRAVITY sends Hundreds of Billions of gallons of water all around the world.
3 The Universe is what it is an imperfect part of which our tiny wee it is affected by the Gravity of all around us. And that also accounts for the "perfect tilt" of the earth. Which Max has changed many times over the existance of Earth.
Like I said before Facts baffle you.
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Next bit.
What is the spirit, that inhabits your body and makes it work? why can't we still live on a ventilator or live suport machines when the spirit is gone? Surely the heart pumps blood and ample oxygen keeps the brain cells alive. Why don't we live then?
Max, folk have lived for years on Ventilators and they are used often to keep people "alive" for transplant purposes until the right time to do the operation/
What is the spirit, that inhabits your body and makes it work? why can't we still live on a ventilator or live suport machines when the spirit is gone? Surely the heart pumps blood and ample oxygen keeps the brain cells alive. Why don't we live then?
Max, folk have lived for years on Ventilators and they are used often to keep people "alive" for transplant purposes until the right time to do the operation/
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Another Bit .
Why are you so intelligent? Why don't you have a rooster's brain? How come evolution of intelligence only worked on mankind and not on other species? Why are cockroaches not the leaders of the world?
Evolution Max. Never heard of it that is why we are what we are and it has always been the survival of the fittest.
We have the biggest brain by ratio on this planet (not sure aout you)
Also unlike a lot of Mammals we have the miraculous "opposable thumb.
Why are you so intelligent? Why don't you have a rooster's brain? How come evolution of intelligence only worked on mankind and not on other species? Why are cockroaches not the leaders of the world?
Evolution Max. Never heard of it that is why we are what we are and it has always been the survival of the fittest.
We have the biggest brain by ratio on this planet (not sure aout you)
Also unlike a lot of Mammals we have the miraculous "opposable thumb.
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Last bit.
Our world, universe, is hanging in such a delicate balance, that if it were not in control of some supreme authority, it would have disintegrated long ago. What do you think? (Logically)
Logic Max is something you do not use or maybe you just don't have any.
Evolution has been proved and the studies of many scientists have shown the Earth like us evolves at all times.
Our world, universe, is hanging in such a delicate balance, that if it were not in control of some supreme authority, it would have disintegrated long ago. What do you think? (Logically)
Logic Max is something you do not use or maybe you just don't have any.
Evolution has been proved and the studies of many scientists have shown the Earth like us evolves at all times.
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Let's start with the very basics here. There is no power in the world known to mankind that can 'produce' anything in its basic form. Let's say a strand of your hair. Can anyone produce it even after the great scientific advancements? Or let's say DNA code, let alone writing it, the deciphering took a long time for mankind. Let's say, the perfect balance of the universe, the perfect orbital motion of planets on our solar system, the 63 degree's tilt of earth on it's axis. The layers (spheres) covering the earth protecting from Sun's radiation. How could this great plan come into place without some supreme intelligence writing it and making it happen?
My questions remain the same, You didn't answer anything. Have highlighted again for your review.
You have just added some more facts, in addition to mine, but didn't asnwer the question. How could this great plan come into place without some supreme intelligence writing it and making it happen?
patmac: Lets take the first question Max.
patmac: 1 Electrical Storms, Lightning have produce Millions of Kilowatts of Energy
2 The action of the Moons GRAVITY sends Hundreds of Billions of gallons of water all around the world.
2 The action of the Moons GRAVITY sends Hundreds of Billions of gallons of water all around the world.
My questions remain the same, You didn't answer anything. Have highlighted again for your review.
patmac: 3 The Universe is what it is an imperfect part of which our tiny wee it is affected by the Gravity of all around us. And that also accounts for the "perfect tilt" of the earth. Which Max has changed many times over the existance of Earth.
Like I said before Facts baffle you.
Like I said before Facts baffle you.
You have just added some more facts, in addition to mine, but didn't asnwer the question. How could this great plan come into place without some supreme intelligence writing it and making it happen?
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What is the spirit, that inhabits your body and makes it work? why can't we still live on a ventilator or live suport machines when the spirit is gone? Surely the heart pumps blood and ample oxygen keeps the brain cells alive. Why don't we live then?
You still didn't asnwer the question. I asked why can't the vantilators bring the spirit back in the body and make the person alive again? Why don't you die and try coming back to life through a vantilator? It's a life support mechanism, not LIFE itself?
patmac: Next bit.
Max, folk have lived for years on Ventilators and they are used often to keep people "alive" for transplant purposes until the right time to do the operation
Max, folk have lived for years on Ventilators and they are used often to keep people "alive" for transplant purposes until the right time to do the operation
You still didn't asnwer the question. I asked why can't the vantilators bring the spirit back in the body and make the person alive again? Why don't you die and try coming back to life through a vantilator? It's a life support mechanism, not LIFE itself?
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Soooooooooooo Pat & Max .....
You already know, neither of you answers the other´s questions to their satisfaction. Or at least, all the CSers who read your posts have worked it out by now!!!
Definition of madness: Keep doing the same things over and over again and expect a different outcome
You already know, neither of you answers the other´s questions to their satisfaction. Or at least, all the CSers who read your posts have worked it out by now!!!
Definition of madness: Keep doing the same things over and over again and expect a different outcome
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EagleWoman: Soooooooooooo Pat & Max .....
You already know, neither of you answers the other´s questions to their satisfaction. Or at least, all the CSers who read your posts have worked it out by now!!!
Definition of madness: Keep doing the same things over and over again and expect a different outcome
You already know, neither of you answers the other´s questions to their satisfaction. Or at least, all the CSers who read your posts have worked it out by now!!!
Definition of madness: Keep doing the same things over and over again and expect a different outcome
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Why are you so intelligent? Why don't you have a rooster's brain? How come evolution of intelligence only worked on mankind and not on other species? Why are cockroaches not the leaders of the world?
You still missed the question purposedly through sarcasm and irrelevant humor. Why only human brain evolved as it is today and not other species? And about evolution, why your forefathers, Primates (monkeys/apes) from which you evolved from according to your evolution, are still apes. Why din't they all evolve to be human? Has evolution stopped after you evolved from them?
For the survival of the fittest, why humans remained fittest in all respects and why not other species? we all shared the same earth. NO?
I have to higlight my questions agian so that you can put the evolution to use.
patmac: Another Bit
Evolution Max. Never heard of it that is why we are what we are and it has always been the survival of the fittest.
We have the biggest brain by ratio on this planet (not sure aout you)
Also unlike a lot of Mammals we have the miraculous "opposable thumb.
Evolution Max. Never heard of it that is why we are what we are and it has always been the survival of the fittest.
We have the biggest brain by ratio on this planet (not sure aout you)
Also unlike a lot of Mammals we have the miraculous "opposable thumb.
You still missed the question purposedly through sarcasm and irrelevant humor. Why only human brain evolved as it is today and not other species? And about evolution, why your forefathers, Primates (monkeys/apes) from which you evolved from according to your evolution, are still apes. Why din't they all evolve to be human? Has evolution stopped after you evolved from them?
For the survival of the fittest, why humans remained fittest in all respects and why not other species? we all shared the same earth. NO?
I have to higlight my questions agian so that you can put the evolution to use.
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Our world, universe, is hanging in such a delicate balance, that if it were not in control of some supreme authority, it would have disintegrated long ago. What do you think? (Logically)
You still didn't answer why Evolution worked only on humans and not on species way older than us according to the evolution theories.
And for logic, digest this...and answer accordingly....
You see a rare occurance can be called a conincidence. Some logic defying occurance may be called a miracle. But what do we call millions of rare and uniaginable occurances to the perfection of life's existance, specially to the conscious benefit of only Human Species? It's not a miracle but an act of precision creation and control by some supreme authority!
Let me quote an unbelievable example.
Earth is rotating on it's axis (spinning) at the speed of 1670 kilometers per hour (Km/h). At the same time, our earth is orbiting around the sun at the speed of (incredible) 8766 km an hour. WOW!
And our galaxy (milky way) is moving at a speed of 1.08 million km per hour towards the galaxy Andromeda.
While all this mad mad mad race is going on, the moon stays intact with the earth and revolves around us at the incredible speed of 3683 kms an hour.
There are billions of asteroids, planets, stars, and blackholes in the universe. Small big both. Some billion times bigger than earth. Blackholes even suck light in due to their sheer gravitational pull.
My question is that with such an incredible speed and spin in the presence of all all hazards in space, how can we steer clear of collisoin unless somebody is not intelligently steering with utmost precision? We haven't collieded yet. (a chance?)
How do we and everything else stay (relatively) still with our feet holding firm on the ground and why don't we just get thrown away and smash into peices colliding with something else?
Our days, nights and seasons come and go in a set pattern due to all the speedrace and spin above. Yet, there is balance in everything. A perfect echo system of life. Humans and other species. It's a miracle that I am holding still in front of the screen and writing all this and you're acting funny.
It defies all logics a human brain can comprehend, except one. The Existence of a supreme being. God. The one and only. Creator of everything, Heaven and Earth! Amen...
patmac: Last bit.
Logic Max is something you do not use or maybe you just don't have any.
Evolution has been proved and the studies of many scientists have shown the Earth like us evolves at all times.
Logic Max is something you do not use or maybe you just don't have any.
Evolution has been proved and the studies of many scientists have shown the Earth like us evolves at all times.
You still didn't answer why Evolution worked only on humans and not on species way older than us according to the evolution theories.
And for logic, digest this...and answer accordingly....
You see a rare occurance can be called a conincidence. Some logic defying occurance may be called a miracle. But what do we call millions of rare and uniaginable occurances to the perfection of life's existance, specially to the conscious benefit of only Human Species? It's not a miracle but an act of precision creation and control by some supreme authority!
Let me quote an unbelievable example.
Earth is rotating on it's axis (spinning) at the speed of 1670 kilometers per hour (Km/h). At the same time, our earth is orbiting around the sun at the speed of (incredible) 8766 km an hour. WOW!
And our galaxy (milky way) is moving at a speed of 1.08 million km per hour towards the galaxy Andromeda.
While all this mad mad mad race is going on, the moon stays intact with the earth and revolves around us at the incredible speed of 3683 kms an hour.
There are billions of asteroids, planets, stars, and blackholes in the universe. Small big both. Some billion times bigger than earth. Blackholes even suck light in due to their sheer gravitational pull.
My question is that with such an incredible speed and spin in the presence of all all hazards in space, how can we steer clear of collisoin unless somebody is not intelligently steering with utmost precision? We haven't collieded yet. (a chance?)
How do we and everything else stay (relatively) still with our feet holding firm on the ground and why don't we just get thrown away and smash into peices colliding with something else?
Our days, nights and seasons come and go in a set pattern due to all the speedrace and spin above. Yet, there is balance in everything. A perfect echo system of life. Humans and other species. It's a miracle that I am holding still in front of the screen and writing all this and you're acting funny.
It defies all logics a human brain can comprehend, except one. The Existence of a supreme being. God. The one and only. Creator of everything, Heaven and Earth! Amen...
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Read it again Max. I proved folk live on ventilators...You originally asked why we could not ring back the spirit..
What is the spirit, that inhabits your body and makes it work? why can't we still live on a ventilator or live suport machines when the spirit is gone? Surely the heart pumps blood and ample oxygen keeps the brain cells alive. Why don't we live then?
patmac: "“Next bit.
Max, folk have lived for years on Ventilators and they are used often to keep people "alive" for transplant purposes until the right time to do the operation”"
You still didn't asnwer the question. I asked why can't the vantilators bring the spirit back in the body and make the person alive again? Why don't you die and try coming back to life through a vantilator? It's a life support mechanism, not LIFE itself?
You cannot ever prove a spirit ever existed. Show me one.
We can live on a ventilator and you can't show or prove any "spirit has gone or was even there.
I clearly answered your questions Max with facts. You as normal twisted and changed the angle.
Eagle is right I am wasting my time as you ask for logic and then try to twist and lie.
Two Questions Max....
Who or what is Allah...Can you show me.
Who or what is a spirit....Can you show me..
No chance of a logical answer...
What is the spirit, that inhabits your body and makes it work? why can't we still live on a ventilator or live suport machines when the spirit is gone? Surely the heart pumps blood and ample oxygen keeps the brain cells alive. Why don't we live then?
patmac: "“Next bit.
Max, folk have lived for years on Ventilators and they are used often to keep people "alive" for transplant purposes until the right time to do the operation”"
You still didn't asnwer the question. I asked why can't the vantilators bring the spirit back in the body and make the person alive again? Why don't you die and try coming back to life through a vantilator? It's a life support mechanism, not LIFE itself?
You cannot ever prove a spirit ever existed. Show me one.
We can live on a ventilator and you can't show or prove any "spirit has gone or was even there.
I clearly answered your questions Max with facts. You as normal twisted and changed the angle.
Eagle is right I am wasting my time as you ask for logic and then try to twist and lie.
Two Questions Max....
Who or what is Allah...Can you show me.
Who or what is a spirit....Can you show me..
No chance of a logical answer...
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EagleWoman: Soooooooooooo Pat & Max .....
You already know, neither of you answers the other´s questions to their satisfaction. Or at least, all the CSers who read your posts have worked it out by now!!!
Definition of madness: Keep doing the same things over and over again and expect a different outcome
You already know, neither of you answers the other´s questions to their satisfaction. Or at least, all the CSers who read your posts have worked it out by now!!!
Definition of madness: Keep doing the same things over and over again and expect a different outcome
It's an age old trick of peer support. When one peer is losing the case, the other peers come and attempt to brand both as losers....Like in auction houses....some insiders will just raise the price to induce a high price....
Your known buddy failing to asnwer relevant questions doesn't mean you assume the role of a spkoes person of all CSers....don't even speculate. If you really had substance, you would choose to be part of the debate in question, rather than making silly remarks about my posts. And please act on your madness definition. We have seen it over and over. Either make a contribution relevant to my posts, directly, or stay quiet. Will help you not look like a clueless dumbo!
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Religion is a form of madness. Led Zeppelin was on the radio one day singing "She's buying the stairway to heaven" My mother said to me that they were singing about my aunty Mary who used to do the stations of the cross twice a day.
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3. some made a question about the originality of the Quran. i would discuss about it. Allah says in the Quran, " i have sent this revelation to mankind and i'll protect it." Quran came to Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)in 23 years time and it was put to his heart. the companions memorised it from him and wrote it on stones, woods and etc. then it was collected in the form of book after 13-14 years of the Prophet's death. since then the Quran is found in the form of a book. the existance of the Quran is a miracle. it got 6666 verses in arabic. but you would find millions of muslims around the world from every languages have memorised the complete Quran, with the same arabic accent. the english of the african people got their own accent. while the russian speak a different english. chinese English is different. italian people also got their own accent for english. but when they read the Quran, its the same accent. can anyone of you memorise an article of one page length written in a different language and read it in the exact accent without making a mistake even a comma?
this is how the originality of the Quran is maintained for centuries from people's heart to heart.
For a kick if you start with "It says in the Quoran"
Well the fact I and others questioned the Holy Books and you answer with a quote from the one of the ooks in question shows you are not taking the point made.
MAN WROTE THESE BOOKS..Not Allah, God, Jehovah or any other being. Man and like I said earlier he is fallible and also biased.
You are just quoting from other folks writings and I see not one original thought from you.
If you do not question but follow blindly then your are a fool. Man learns by questioning.
So I for one would prefer it if you stopped quoting the Quoran and Mohammed as like the Majority of the population of this world neither mean diddly squat to me.
Answer the question as to why anyone should believe any Holy book that was written by Man ....Not any Diety of any religion.
Try answering without all the flowery prose and just comment on the point of the question.
So No quotes from anywhere
No rambling about Mohammed,Jesus,Bhuddha,Jehova just an answer to why should we beleive any MAN who says God,Allah or any other diety told him...And why should we elieve the books in question