Margaret Thatcher RIP (251)
sofarsogood74: Maybe not. But you did say we should be thankfull to her. I dont see why to be honest.
But she did cause hardship for many in the UK and N. Ireland. She also had no problem supporting dictators who tortured and murdered and also the SA government of the 80's.
Admire her all you want but please be honest about the sort of leader you're admiring.
But she did cause hardship for many in the UK and N. Ireland. She also had no problem supporting dictators who tortured and murdered and also the SA government of the 80's.
Admire her all you want but please be honest about the sort of leader you're admiring.
To be honest I admire her a bit less than I did before, in part due to the points you've raised.
In terms of the north though I still think she was spot on.
snowlynx: Again, fair enough.
Just to clarify, I admire her role in NI. She stood firm against republicans and then stood firm against Unionists when she signed the Anglo-Irish Agreement, which gave us a say in the north for the first time and in my opinion was hugely progressive.
Just to clarify, I admire her role in NI. She stood firm against republicans and then stood firm against Unionists when she signed the Anglo-Irish Agreement, which gave us a say in the north for the first time and in my opinion was hugely progressive.
That's fair enough. But she did say later in life the Anglo Irish areement was her greatest regret.
But on the same note you cant ignore her policies of supporting far right leaders, many of whom were dictators. In my view she done more damage in the world than good during her time in power.
sofarsogood74: Of course not. But if you are going to say you admire the woman surely you have to be honest with yourself about what she stood for and the leaders of the world she supported.
i have no problem with that
but it seems some people think that your not a nationalist unless you believe in the armed struggle
thepooka: It is not a selective account you quizling..it's all fact..!! I notice you could not dispute any of the facts that I raised..The like's of you still cow tow to the Brits..Mourning a war monger who visited heaps of misery on the citizens of your own country..Hang your head in shame..!!!
Calling people quizlings is hardly helpful. I'm just curious, in your condemnation of Thatcher (and personally I hope she died roaring), why do you completely ignore the Miners' strikes? Apologies if I misread but I saw no reference to this.
scriobhneoir: Calling people quizlings is hardly helpful. I'm just curious, in your condemnation of Thatcher (and personally I hope she died roaring), why do you completely ignore the Miners' strikes? Apologies if I misread but I saw no reference to this.
What does it mean Scribs? Have never heard it before.
WadeWilson: whatever about refering to sands et all about being political prisoners
it was the statement that they were not like other odc prisoners
i did not know that rapists, muggers, bank robbers etc were decent
but then again when you been using illegal drugs for along period of time, maybe you have a diff definition of decent
it was the statement that they were not like other odc prisoners
i did not know that rapists, muggers, bank robbers etc were decent
but then again when you been using illegal drugs for along period of time, maybe you have a diff definition of decent
You're taking being pedantic to a whole new level here Wade. ordinary decent criminals is a commonly accepted slang term for non -political prisoners, I don't think it was ever intended to genuinely declare them as being decent.
scriobhneoir: You're taking being pedantic to a whole new level here Wade. ordinary decent criminals is a commonly accepted slang term for non -political prisoners, I don't think it was ever intended to genuinely declare them as being decent.
nope
the person who said the phrase
has openly boasted about using illegal drugs for years & by his own admission hits on married women
so maybe he his verison of decent is different to others
snowlynx: To be honest I admire her a bit less than I did before, in part due to the points you've raised.
In terms of the north though I still think she was spot on.
In terms of the north though I still think she was spot on.
And I fully accept your right and others to admire her.
She wasn't far off on her thinking of the North in my opinion.The thing I do think she messed up on is the hunger strikes. She could have handled that better but I do believe like her in not giving in to terrorists or criminals.
WadeWilson: i have no problem with that
but it seems some people think that your not a nationalist unless you believe in the armed struggle
but it seems some people think that your not a nationalist unless you believe in the armed struggle
Those people are idiots. I wouldn't listen to them. You can have ideals without believing people have to die to achieve them.
I didn't hate Maggie so I wont be calling her names. I don't hate anyone thank goodness. But I didn't admire her. I fact I disagreed with 99% of what she stood for.
thought this was supposed to a r i p thread ??
mr1983: It is interesting how the West never heard of the way the ANC and the blacks treated and still treat the coloreds in South Africa.
Mandela and the ANC were also admirers of the Soviet Union, apartheid was an abominable policy nobody disputes that but I can tell you one thing if the ANC had come to power before the Soviet union collapsed in 1991 they would have turned South Africa into a Marxist state.
It was only as a result of communism collapsing in 1989 in Eastern Europe that many Marxist parties in the Western World abandoned Marxism-Leninism and embraced social democracy instead.
sofarsogood74: Maybe not. But you did say we should be thankfull to her. I dont see why to be honest.
But she did cause hardship for many in the UK and N. Ireland. She also had no problem supporting dictators who tortured and murdered and also the SA government of the 80's.
Admire her all you want but please be honest about the sort of leader you're admiring.
But she did cause hardship for many in the UK and N. Ireland. She also had no problem supporting dictators who tortured and murdered and also the SA government of the 80's.
Admire her all you want but please be honest about the sort of leader you're admiring.
The aparthied regime in SA was barbaric. On the hand the ANC were a bunch of Soviet union loving communists, perhaps if they didn't have such extreme left wing views then the likes of Thatcher wouldn't have opposed the ANC.
kennyfromdublin: The aparthied regime in SA was barbaric. On the hand the ANC were a bunch of Soviet union loving communists, perhaps if they didn't have such extreme left wing views then the likes of Thatcher wouldn't have opposed the ANC.
But around the world, these Socialist groups only exist when there is a broken society. And in this case ANC existed because De Klerk and his merry men operated a broken society.
MADDOG69: But around the world, these Socialist groups only exist when there is a broken society. And in this case ANC existed because De Klerk and his merry men operated a broken society.
I disasgree, In Ireland in the War of Independence most of the IRA men were certainly not left wing and would have been quite conservative in their political outlook.
It was Botha that led SA up till 1989 then De Klerk took over as SA President. As for the ANC they have no reason to take the moral high ground, their support for the Soviet Union was despicable.
Here's a article on the "saint" Mandela and the ANC from Mark Humphrys.
RIP Nelson Thatcher.......or was it Margaret Mandela? I'm confused 
snowlynx: We as Irish people owe her a great debt, she didn't flinch in the face of terrorism.
no...we dont...what do we owe her?? she done a bit of damage to the uk herself. should they thank her for the mines she closed and the industries i suppose they should i say they had a ball of a time when they found out they were out of the job if you wanna go and say terrorists both sides are terrorists both brought terror to both communities but oh wait thats just us i suppose...dear me i should look up my history again im sure its all one sided on that forgive my ignorance! i shall behave and be a good paddy that i am don't question just obey!!!
kennyfromdublin: The aparthied regime in SA was barbaric. On the hand the ANC were a bunch of Soviet union loving communists, perhaps if they didn't have such extreme left wing views then the likes of Thatcher wouldn't have opposed the ANC.
That is the point I am making Kenny. That was the problem with her. She did not care about Democracy at all. She did not care what the majority wanted. All she cared about was the political ideology of a regime. If the political ideology suited her she supported them. It did not matter if they were dictators, murderers, torturers or kidnappers. Because they were right wing they were OK in her book.
So you're saying that if the majority in a country have a different way of thinking politically than you then they dont deserve to have democracy?
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But she did cause hardship for many in the UK and N. Ireland. She also had no problem supporting dictators who tortured and murdered and also the SA government of the 80's.
Admire her all you want but please be honest about the sort of leader you're admiring.
Again, fair enough.
Just to clarify, I admire her role in NI. She stood firm against republicans and then stood firm against Unionists when she signed the Anglo-Irish Agreement, which gave us a say in the north for the first time and in my opinion was hugely progressive.