For the most part I think you're probably right...however, there had to be some societal structure to set moral codes before then. I tend to think our current moral codes are based on theological concepts.
I was also thinking about that....based on my "what is atheism" thread...I'm wondering if the bible is fiction....then so are the 10 commandments....but then where did our "morals" for living originate if not from those commandments?
mbcaseyNorth Myrtle Beach, South Carolina USA16,449 posts
The Bible summed it up, but I guess through trial and error, people came to certain conlusions about right and wrong in a "civilized" society. Those lines between right and wrong have been blurred recently, but I think deep down most people agree on a basic moral code.
500 BC: the Rational Revolution takes place -- miraculously -- simultaneously in the fundamentally unconnected worlds of China, India, Persia, Judea, and Greece; a brand new sophistication and consistency in thought inaugurates the world's first Age of Reason -- altho' full rationality doesn't actually form and triumph except in Greece; there, true full philosophy and morality are born
250 BC: there is a surprising and depressing dialectic reaction against reason and philosophy across almost the whole Old World; people experiment with, and turn to, the nemesis and antithesis of rationality and philosophy: newly-invented pure irrationality and religion; this is especially true in Greece, as was probably natural and ineluctable; but world culture and morality suffer immensely; people become fixated on, or even obsessed with, excessively long-term personal enjoyment and social over-cooperation; neither goal is much achieved; it gets to the point where the individual -- the meaning and purpose of the universe -- gets very little pleasure or happiness short or long term; the man in the city street focuses on interpersonal cooperation to the point of self-sacrifice and self-immolation; the Sacred Self virtually abandons all-important personal morality in order to serve his monolithic bureaucratic Society -- an abstract institution and entity which doesn't much even exist; the newly-invented "god" is so evil he practically stands ethics on its head; morality is so perverted, subverted, and tortured by the hyper-evil of religion that it actually becomes the individual's enemy (a shocking situation which still obtains to this day); the holy Self and his Society suffer horrifically; poorly defined and explained "selfishness" and "greed" become highly condemned while bottom-feeding religiosos promote the ambiguous concepts and ideals of "duty" and "obligation"; these last two get interpreted almost exclusively as social concepts and become two new hateful words and enemies of the individual and his society
500-750 AD: religion and the judeo-christiano-islamic ethic have sadly triumphed; true philosophy and morality lie crushed
500-1500: social duties and obligations -- even including counter-productive charity -- continue to dog and torture the individual and society in Europe; fortunately, philosophical and ethical hypocrisy and corruption reign in both government and religion; thus, neither the Sacred Self nor his derivative society perish during this seemingly endless monstrous Dark Age
1300-1500: reason returns to Italy; the false god and anti-philosophy of religion goes into steep decline; individualism and humanism emerge vigorously, while the loathsome god-based morality (sic) of altruism retreats; the selfish virtues of classic Greek "excellence" and classic Roman "manly power" reascend strongly
1500-1700: more of the same, but this time much further, and thruout the whole of Europe
1700-1800: the Enlightenment and new Age of Reason take place culturally, philosophically, and morally; the value of the individual, individualism, and individual happiness are somewhat realized and reach their historic zenith; self-centered and rational ethics see to it that human society and culture are never higher, sweeter, or better
I would like to say from common sense of seeing what the differences of causing joy and pain do,but then I would be going against church and state as most seem to dictate what they see as just and moral depending on what best suits them at the time as shown throughout history. JMO
Try the religious records found on this planet; ancient Sumer. All of their ancient records have been found as...meaning no point of any known origin or beginning...All their records from Religious texts to school lessons, to world trade right down to taxes have been found and translations are still on-going. They are the origins of all our religious history, beliefs and how humanity evolved and progressed....long before any 10 commandments or the Bible as we know it came to be. Virtually all of which were copied from the Sumerians. To seek origins, one must always go to the oldest known sources.
i doubt if morals have anything to do with religion. morals usually come from a sense of knowing what's right and what's wrong and the feeling of guilt.
it obviously comes from within. if you do something wrong then you feel guilt. if you feel u have been wronged then you feel a sense of injustice. if you see someone committing a crime against another you instinctively know that it's wrong and you know that these crimes should be punished. nothing to do with religion, just simple logic.
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Any thoughts on this?