God vs. Science (902)
Claayer: Ermm.. well..
I DID get some gorgeous new shoes a while back for dirt cheap!
and I thought then..
There IS a god!
Helloooo Kid
I DID get some gorgeous new shoes a while back for dirt cheap!
and I thought then..
There IS a god!
Helloooo Kid
Hi Claire
Well I do believe some of the creatures on the earth are heavenly.
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crotalus_p: No one is denying that science can be proven wrong , in fact it’s what true scientists live for because when they are proven wrong science advances and we get closer to the truth , that is what sceince is about finding the truth
we did not come from Primates we are Primates
To be honest id have to look it up and im not in the mood Im sure with the aid of google you can find it your self Because this is what we have evolved into it has taken the amount of time it has to get here It has been proven to the point where all legitimate scientist’s agree that it is fact
There is not a shred of evidence to prove that he does exist , more to the point science suggests that likelihood is he does not , the burden of proof is on the person claming that he does exist, and as yet no proof has been offered
you and I are going to have to disagree on that point
i dont know what comic books you've been reading ,canteen boywe did not come from Primates we are Primates
To be honest id have to look it up and im not in the mood Im sure with the aid of google you can find it your self Because this is what we have evolved into it has taken the amount of time it has to get here It has been proven to the point where all legitimate scientist’s agree that it is fact
There is not a shred of evidence to prove that he does exist , more to the point science suggests that likelihood is he does not , the burden of proof is on the person claming that he does exist, and as yet no proof has been offered
you and I are going to have to disagree on that point
and as far as ''legitimate scientist's''...that would be another argument ------ This thread is Archived ------
kidatheart:
People talk about their "god experiences" and "feelings" and I look at a lot of them and think "you should be medicated...heavily!" .
People talk about their "god experiences" and "feelings" and I look at a lot of them and think "you should be medicated...heavily!" .
Sam harris made a very good point
“The president of the United States has claimed, on more than one occasion, to be in dialogue with God. If he said that he was talking to God through his hairdryer, this would precipitate a national emergency. I fail to see how the addition of a hairdryer makes the claim more ridiculous or offensive.”
In all fair ness some people can have what for want of a better word can be described as "spiritual experiences" however these can be shown to have happened threw out history with every religion and it can be explained threw psychology , there is also this to consider , the human mind is extremely susceptible to hallucinations
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jlw45: ...that would be another argument
No it's not, it's a case you ignoring the facts that there is no disagrement amoung the scientific community when it comes to weather or not evolution is fact ,
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kidatheart: Do I get a cool cell phone and dark sunglasses if I pick the right pill? Seriously though, I've been hearing people spout off about god all my life and I've yet to see or hear of any evidence of him/her/it existing.
People talk about their "god experiences" and "feelings" and I look at a lot of them and think "you should be medicated...heavily!"
There are others though, that are genuinely conviced and sincere about their faith and also accepting of other faiths and beliefs, or lack thereof.
If any of it brings comfort to you, believing there is a god as described in the bible, GREAT!, but why try to convince others if you can't prove the existance of any god and attempt to disprove all other theories.
Doesn't make sense to me, unless you're a salesman.
the deal that gets to me is....people are always saying that a believer is always pushing there beliefes off on others.....but, as this thread is evadence off, the opposite is more so....athiest's push there staind far more, and more aggresivelly then believers do....and a believer is supposed to just set back and take it all in stride...the evadence that a creator/designer exist's is all around us....even with the evolutionist's millions and millions of years ''theory'', the probability of all life form deriving from nothing is and what should be, unfathomable......People talk about their "god experiences" and "feelings" and I look at a lot of them and think "you should be medicated...heavily!"
There are others though, that are genuinely conviced and sincere about their faith and also accepting of other faiths and beliefs, or lack thereof.
If any of it brings comfort to you, believing there is a god as described in the bible, GREAT!, but why try to convince others if you can't prove the existance of any god and attempt to disprove all other theories.
Doesn't make sense to me, unless you're a salesman.
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jlw45: the deal that gets to me is....people are always saying that a believer is always pushing there beliefes off on others.....but, as this thread is evadence off, the opposite is more so....athiest's push there staind far more, and more aggresivelly then believers do....and a believer is supposed to just set back and take it all in stride...the evadence that a creator/designer exist's is all around us....even with the evolutionist's millions and millions of years ''theory'', the probability of all life form deriving from nothing is and what should be, unfathomable......
Have I "pushed" anything on anyone?
That's your "belief" when you say everything all around us is "evidence" of a creator, not proof.
I have yet to see any evidence of a creator, but quite a few selling god, even on this thread.
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Conrad73: Besides that,a Scientific Theory is far away from the Hypothesis as which it started out.
A Scientific Theory is an Assembly od Facts which point to the Conclusion of said Theory,and will be modified as new Knowledge is Discovered,unlike Religion,which for some Fool Reason considers itself Immutable!!
Ponder THAT for a while!
A Scientific Theory is an Assembly od Facts which point to the Conclusion of said Theory,and will be modified as new Knowledge is Discovered,unlike Religion,which for some Fool Reason considers itself Immutable!!
Ponder THAT for a while!
There is a Buddhist saying to the effect that religion is like a finger pointing at the moon. The sad truth is that many get soooo caught up in studying the finger that they never see the moon. I believe that for many, their religious experience is simply an exchange of one ego construct for another. Perhaps the one is a less destructive, and maybe morally superior. Still, I sincerely doubt that it is any more spiritual.
I spent a substantial part of my life "thumping the Bible", and I was really good at it. Yet through that time, especially the time I spent at a "Christian" University, I became rather disillusioned. I knew that something was wrong with the Church, but I didn't know how to articulate it. I still consider myself a Christian, but I am definitely a nonconformist in my beliefs.
I view the scriptures now from a perspective that many Christians would call "New Age". However, I don't believe it is new at all. I often wonder if the "new agers" realize that Jesus taught what they believe. I don't think it's new at all. It is simply a spiritual truth that has been buried by the collective ego of Bapti-cees, or Phari-costals, or Whateveritans.(so to speak)
I do believe that God exists, and He expresses Himself through all of us. There is proof that God exists, there is. It is the kind of proof that no one can show you. You may think that is a convenient cop out, but it is precisely the message that the Buddhist was trying to convey. The doctrine is like a finger pointing at the moon. For those who do not believe it is because the fingers instructions make no sense, or perhaps they are simply too arrogant, and appalled by the very idea of recieveing instructions. Those who are pointing are often equally frustrated, because it seems so apparent, and so they point even harder, or perhaps they feel superior in thier experience, and arrogantly loft thier fingers in defiance of the non-believers.
In any case the focus is on the finger. Some say, "There is no proof of this moon thingy, all you have is your own stupid finger."
The others say, "Look, look at my finger. See? The moon is right there
....See now dummy?""Nuh-uh...that's just your finger dummy." is the reply.
The cycle is endless, and really has no effect on the presence of the moon. The moon handles it's luminescent business regardless. Lucky for us it is not dependent upon our beliefs, or fingers. Some of us for whatever reason occasionally look away from ourselves, (deny thyself or something) and almost by accident it would seem, we see the moon. The Once you see it you cannot help but to believe it. Just be careful to keep your attention there, and away from the pointing as often as possible.
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Kryssi34: Ok, Science Is In Fact Being Constantly Proved Wrong. Sure, There Are Some Things That Remain The Same, but Things Are Still Being Proved Wrong!
If Anyone Is Surrending To Ignorance, It Is You. Sure Science Does Explain Some Things, but It Sure As Hell Doesn't Explain Everything. For Example: Back In 2005, A Little 12 Year Old Girl In Bita Genet Escaped From These Men That Went Through Her Village and Were Beating and Raping and Trying To Force The Young Girls To Marry Them. As I Mentioned She Escaped, and When The Police Found Her, She Was Being Protected By Three Lions. As Soon As The Police Arrived, The Lions Went Back Into The Forest. She Had Been Guarded By The Lions For About Half A Day. When They Captured The Men, They Said The Lions Had Scared Them Off. Now Of Course Scientists Think They Have A Say In Everything, So They Explained That The Reason The Lions Did Not Attack The Little Girl, Was Because The Little Girl's Cry Probably Sounded Like A Lion Cub Crying. Give Me A Break! That May Have Been Possible, but Lions Are Not Dumb Animals. They Would Have Been Able To See and Smell The Difference In The Little Girl and A Cub. GOD Sent Those Lions To Protect Her!
I Will Be The First One To Admit That Evolution Exists. However, If We Supposedly Came From Primates, Then Why Are They Not Extinct? And What Is This Common Ancestor That We Share? And Why Have We Not Evolved Into Something Else By Now? Explain That To Me.
For Your Information Evolution Can Not Be Proved 100% In Everything, and Science Can NOT Prove That GOD Doesn't Exist.
As Far As What MikeHD Said About What He Experienced With Jesus, You Have No Idea What He Felt or Went Through. So Therefore, You Can't Sit Here and Say It's The Same Thing Other People Have Felt.
I Have Had My Doubts About God Before, but They Only Lasted A Moment Before I Realized I Have No Reason To Doubt Him. I Myself Have Gone Through Experiences(Yah, That's Plural) With God. I Know I Am A Sinner, but I Also Know That I Am Truly Sorry For The Wrong Things I Do, and I Am Forgiven and Will Go To Heaven When I Die. and Ya Know, Personally, I'd Rather Go Through Life Believing In God, Just To Find Out When I Die, That He Isn't Real, Than Going Through Life Not Believing In Him, Just To Die and Find Out He Is. Fortunately For You, God Does Love You and Does Watch Over You. Unfortunately So Does The Devil, and He Has A Hold On You. I Hope For Your Sake That You Will Someday Realize That God Is Real, and Find Your Faith Before It's Too Late.
If Anyone Is Surrending To Ignorance, It Is You. Sure Science Does Explain Some Things, but It Sure As Hell Doesn't Explain Everything. For Example: Back In 2005, A Little 12 Year Old Girl In Bita Genet Escaped From These Men That Went Through Her Village and Were Beating and Raping and Trying To Force The Young Girls To Marry Them. As I Mentioned She Escaped, and When The Police Found Her, She Was Being Protected By Three Lions. As Soon As The Police Arrived, The Lions Went Back Into The Forest. She Had Been Guarded By The Lions For About Half A Day. When They Captured The Men, They Said The Lions Had Scared Them Off. Now Of Course Scientists Think They Have A Say In Everything, So They Explained That The Reason The Lions Did Not Attack The Little Girl, Was Because The Little Girl's Cry Probably Sounded Like A Lion Cub Crying. Give Me A Break! That May Have Been Possible, but Lions Are Not Dumb Animals. They Would Have Been Able To See and Smell The Difference In The Little Girl and A Cub. GOD Sent Those Lions To Protect Her!
I Will Be The First One To Admit That Evolution Exists. However, If We Supposedly Came From Primates, Then Why Are They Not Extinct? And What Is This Common Ancestor That We Share? And Why Have We Not Evolved Into Something Else By Now? Explain That To Me.
For Your Information Evolution Can Not Be Proved 100% In Everything, and Science Can NOT Prove That GOD Doesn't Exist.
As Far As What MikeHD Said About What He Experienced With Jesus, You Have No Idea What He Felt or Went Through. So Therefore, You Can't Sit Here and Say It's The Same Thing Other People Have Felt.
I Have Had My Doubts About God Before, but They Only Lasted A Moment Before I Realized I Have No Reason To Doubt Him. I Myself Have Gone Through Experiences(Yah, That's Plural) With God. I Know I Am A Sinner, but I Also Know That I Am Truly Sorry For The Wrong Things I Do, and I Am Forgiven and Will Go To Heaven When I Die. and Ya Know, Personally, I'd Rather Go Through Life Believing In God, Just To Find Out When I Die, That He Isn't Real, Than Going Through Life Not Believing In Him, Just To Die and Find Out He Is. Fortunately For You, God Does Love You and Does Watch Over You. Unfortunately So Does The Devil, and He Has A Hold On You. I Hope For Your Sake That You Will Someday Realize That God Is Real, and Find Your Faith Before It's Too Late.
you expect 100% proof of science, yet zero proof of god ... mind boggling and irrational
Why do you worry about your sins since some "alledged unproveable being"(again zero proof) apparently already died for them, long before you even sinned
... again mind boggling and irrational.What people call 'experiences' can be explained through psychological and biological processes, including the Lion story. Some dogs have been known to eat kids, and some that protect, whether they do or not is explainable and controllable. Sometimes theyre hungry, sometimes they sense threats, sometimes they dont. Lions don't always eat and or attack humans and they generally eat at night and sleep by day ... a few hours of not being eaten is easily explainable.
The fact that you ignore a 'more' factual process in cosmology and its child sciences in favour of some zero proveable hocus pocus... will leave you uneducated in science and a victim of the greatest 'fool roundup in our history', which is by the way another subject you are definitely lacking knowledge in.
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Cardsfan what was the quiestion here?
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jlw45: the deal that gets to me is....people are always saying that a believer is always pushing there beliefes off on others.....but, as this thread is evadence off, the opposite is more so....athiest's push there staind far more, and more aggresivelly then believers do....and a believer is supposed to just set back and take it all in stride...the evadence that a creator/designer exist's is all around us....even with the evolutionist's millions and millions of years ''theory'', the probability of all life form deriving from nothing is and what should be, unfathomable......
because the 'evidence' around you as you put it, is scientifically explainable. and that is more evidence than just pronouncing that there is some super santa for which there is no evidence.
Just because you dont understand the evidence doesn't make it less proof.
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I don't often spend much time reading the religious debates, that last post seemed a little nasty.
I never imagined you that way Al.
You're not nasty all the time are you Al?
I never imagined you that way Al.
You're not nasty all the time are you Al?
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Okay the one before last
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diogenes: There is a Buddhist saying to the effect that religion is like a finger pointing at the moon. The sad truth is that many get soooo caught up in studying the finger that they never see the moon. I believe that for many, their religious experience is simply an exchange of one ego construct for another. Perhaps the one is a less destructive, and maybe morally superior. Still, I sincerely doubt that it is any more spiritual.
I spent a substantial part of my life "thumping the Bible", and I was really good at it. Yet through that time, especially the time I spent at a "Christian" University, I became rather disillusioned. I knew that something was wrong with the Church, but I didn't know how to articulate it. I still consider myself a Christian, but I am definitely a nonconformist in my beliefs.
I view the scriptures now from a perspective that many Christians would call "New Age". However, I don't believe it is new at all. I often wonder if the "new agers" realize that Jesus taught what they believe. I don't think it's new at all. It is simply a spiritual truth that has been buried by the collective ego of Bapti-cees, or Phari-costals, or Whateveritans.(so to speak)
I do believe that God exists, and He expresses Himself through all of us. There is proof that God exists, there is. It is the kind of proof that no one can show you. You may think that is a convenient cop out, but it is precisely the message that the Buddhist was trying to convey. The doctrine is like a finger pointing at the moon. For those who do not believe it is because the fingers instructions make no sense, or perhaps they are simply too arrogant, and appalled by the very idea of recieveing instructions. Those who are pointing are often equally frustrated, because it seems so apparent, and so they point even harder, or perhaps they feel superior in thier experience, and arrogantly loft thier fingers in defiance of the non-believers.
In any case the focus is on the finger. Some say, "There is no proof of this moon thingy, all you have is your own stupid finger."
The others say, "Look, look at my finger. See? The moon is right there ....See now dummy?"
"Nuh-uh...that's just your finger dummy." is the reply.
The cycle is endless, and really has no effect on the presence of the moon. The moon handles it's luminescent business regardless. Lucky for us it is not dependent upon our beliefs, or fingers. Some of us for whatever reason occasionally look away from ourselves, (deny thyself or something) and almost by accident it would seem, we see the moon. The Once you see it you cannot help but to believe it. Just be careful to keep your attention there, and away from the pointing as often as possible.I don't even know if that made sense
I spent a substantial part of my life "thumping the Bible", and I was really good at it. Yet through that time, especially the time I spent at a "Christian" University, I became rather disillusioned. I knew that something was wrong with the Church, but I didn't know how to articulate it. I still consider myself a Christian, but I am definitely a nonconformist in my beliefs.
I view the scriptures now from a perspective that many Christians would call "New Age". However, I don't believe it is new at all. I often wonder if the "new agers" realize that Jesus taught what they believe. I don't think it's new at all. It is simply a spiritual truth that has been buried by the collective ego of Bapti-cees, or Phari-costals, or Whateveritans.(so to speak)
I do believe that God exists, and He expresses Himself through all of us. There is proof that God exists, there is. It is the kind of proof that no one can show you. You may think that is a convenient cop out, but it is precisely the message that the Buddhist was trying to convey. The doctrine is like a finger pointing at the moon. For those who do not believe it is because the fingers instructions make no sense, or perhaps they are simply too arrogant, and appalled by the very idea of recieveing instructions. Those who are pointing are often equally frustrated, because it seems so apparent, and so they point even harder, or perhaps they feel superior in thier experience, and arrogantly loft thier fingers in defiance of the non-believers.
In any case the focus is on the finger. Some say, "There is no proof of this moon thingy, all you have is your own stupid finger."
The others say, "Look, look at my finger. See? The moon is right there ....See now dummy?"
"Nuh-uh...that's just your finger dummy." is the reply.
The cycle is endless, and really has no effect on the presence of the moon. The moon handles it's luminescent business regardless. Lucky for us it is not dependent upon our beliefs, or fingers. Some of us for whatever reason occasionally look away from ourselves, (deny thyself or something) and almost by accident it would seem, we see the moon. The Once you see it you cannot help but to believe it. Just be careful to keep your attention there, and away from the pointing as often as possible.I don't even know if that made sense
It is circular but heavily based in ... now don't freak out Dio...... Einstein's thoery of relativity.
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BnaturAl: because the 'evidence' around you as you put it, is scientifically explainable. and that is more evidence than just pronouncing that there is some super santa for which there is no evidence.
Just because you dont understand the evidence doesn't make it less proof.
what i mean by the evadence around us is there are hundreds and hundreds of life forms that cant exist without one or the other....that evolution says one lived without the other for a million years, when it would have been imposible...just a fauge example, but, that was my meaning of evidence...as for evidence of god....the guy from longview texas put it pretty good....i dont subscribe to his theology BUT, thats nether here nor there....the theory of millions and millions of years is badly flawed to say the least...there are knew evidence's comming up all the time of a young earth that, without the bed time story of long long long ago, could only point to a creator.....Just because you dont understand the evidence doesn't make it less proof.
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diogenes: I don't often spend much time reading the religious debates, that last post seemed a little nasty.
I never imagined you that way Al.
You're not nasty all the time are you Al?
I never imagined you that way Al.
You're not nasty all the time are you Al?
tell me what you feel is nasty about it...
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BnaturAl: It is circular but heavily based in ... now don't freak out Dio...... Einstein's thoery of relativity.
I love Einstein!
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BnaturAl: It is circular but heavily based in ... now don't freak out Dio...... Einstein's thoery of relativity.
it indeed is circular reasoning..... but, what has'nt been so far?------ This thread is Archived ------
BnaturAl: tell me what you feel is nasty about it...
The fool round-up thing came off to me as condescending I guess.
I guess I had always imagined you to be above mudslinging ad hominem argument.
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jlw45: in human cells, the nucleus contains 99.5% of the DNA. half from the mother and half from the dad...its hard to detirmine wich one contributed what , within the dna strand, because it changes with each generation....however, each cell, outside its nucleus, thousands of tiny energy producing components called mitochondria ...each containing a circular strand of dna...mtDNA ,only comes from the mother...where did she get hers?....from HER mother...and so on and so on....thier are four letters within a dna straind...one copy of a persons mtDNA is 16,559 letters long...sometimes these letters change there order. these changes are passed on to the next generation...these changes help geniticists to identify families...in 1987 a team from berkly published a studycomparing the mtDNA of147 people from 5 diffirent geographical locations...there ''conclusion'' was that all 147 had the same female ancestor...she is what is now referred to as the ''mitochondrial eve''....these mtDNA changes, that i referred to, change at such a rate that it can be mathmatically determined how far back this started....and there conclusion was aproxamatlly 6000 years ago........not millions of years ago, as evolutionists would have us believe....the probability of life as we know it, came from nothing ,has the same probability of a plain crashing into a salvage yard and throwing together a 1981 toyota pick-up truck
Sumer,Mesopotamia!!Only part of the answer though,doesn't explain Neandertal,nor Cro-Magnon,nor the early Settlers of the Americas at the End of the Iceage.(ca.12'000 BC).------ This thread is Archived ------
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No one is denying that science can be proven wrong , in fact it’s what true scientists live for because when they are proven wrong science advances and we get closer to the truth , that is what sceince is about finding the truth
we did not come from Primates we are Primates
To be honest id have to look it up and im not in the mood Im sure with the aid of google you can find it your self Because this is what we have evolved into it has taken the amount of time it has to get here
There is not a shred of evidence to prove that he does exist , more to the point science suggests that likelihood is he does not , the burden of proof is on the person claming that he does exist, and as yet no proof has been offered
you and I are going to have to disagree on that point