God vs. Science ( Archived) (902)

Aug 28, 2008 12:00 AM CST God vs. Science
Lonelynights
LonelynightsLonelynightsNew City, New York USA2 Threads 16 Posts
Something Science still cannot explain is Self Conscience, Rational Thought, The knowledge of "Good" and "Evil", the differance to do right from wrong, and the biggest one of all that ties all of that in a knot, Morality. No Scientist can tell you straight foward, in Evolutionary terms why Human beings have Morality. Throw one more at you, Love and Hatred, ask a Evolutionist to explain that. These things are what seperates us from Animals, our Brain Patterns are differant. I believe that God as however you might see it, Supreme Cosmic Energy created all life, but through the process of Evolution as God saw fit, I dont believe that God looks like a Human being, nor did God ever. I dont believe that a devine being capable of creating all life on this universe within a single thought would stoop that low. Only mankind would be so self-centered to believe that god would come down to save us above all other races and beings, and that gods love for us was greater than love for all other life on other planets or solar systems. We are talking about a devine being that knows only love, and all power, something that is infinite, and so we are going to explain that in a book written by man, that has hundreds of versions all claiming to be the right one, all claiming to know the real god. Well, honestly, we are talking about a being that created everything, so honestly, we know nothing about the topic, nor the subject. Nor will we ever.
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Aug 28, 2008 6:41 AM CST God vs. Science
crotalus_p
crotalus_pcrotalus_pRush, Dublin Ireland43 Threads 6 Polls 2,789 Posts
StressFree: Just wanted to hear your take on the universe in general and why it may not exist..


Simply we do not have evidence to say that it does exist , and what evidence we do have would strongly indicate that it does not.

StressFree: I also do like to use some concepts from certain parts of certain religions and spiritualities to draw some parallels. Please, lets not go into the religion as a tool of mass control via fear. I've heard it all and understand the theories. I don't rule anything out. I am not the truth, and it's still waiting out there in my opinion. But I don't think we are meant to find it as human beings on Earth.


The problem is that what you are essentially talking about is a deity or at the very least has to answer the same questions as a deity “no evidence to suggest it does exist and plenty to suggest that it almost certainly does not”
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Aug 28, 2008 7:16 AM CST God vs. Science
crotalus_p
crotalus_pcrotalus_pRush, Dublin Ireland43 Threads 6 Polls 2,789 Posts
BnaturAl: A bit misleading?


We where talking about the universe having a level of conciseness / intelligence wave
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Aug 28, 2008 7:34 AM CST God vs. Science
crotalus_p
crotalus_pcrotalus_pRush, Dublin Ireland43 Threads 6 Polls 2,789 Posts
Lonelynights: Something Science still cannot explain is Self Conscience, Rational Thought, The knowledge of "Good" and "Evil", the differance to do right from wrong, and the biggest one of all that ties all of that in a knot, Morality.

For the purpose of discourse on the subject these are one and the same as this



Lonelynights: No Scientist can tell you straight foward, in Evolutionary terms why Human beings have Morality.

Yes they can it serves to further the species as we evolved it served to protect the individual , there are certain aspects of “morality that are hardwired into our brains” some of theses are also hardwired into the brains of other primates


Lonelynights: Throw one more at you, Love and Hatred, ask a Evolutionist to explain that. These things are what seperates us from Animals,

Other primates exhibit both love and hatred


Lonelynights: I believe that God as however you might see it, Supreme Cosmic Energy created all life, but through the process of Evolution as God saw fit,


And who created the creator ??? You end up back at the old infinite regress ,

Lonelynights: Well, honestly, we are talking about a being that created everything, so honestly, we know nothing about the topic, nor the subject. Nor will we ever.


you are still left to explain the origin of the creator If that truly is your belief then what makes you able to comment on the subject ???
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Aug 28, 2008 7:51 AM CST God vs. Science
BnaturAl
BnaturAlBnaturAlSarnia, Ontario Canada107 Threads 7 Polls 6,811 Posts
crotalus_p: We where talking about the universe having a level of conciseness / intelligence


Nah, its just theory, but the most successful theories have known variables, unlike quantum and string theory :eyesroll:. And this theory has some known constants, the rest (what it means as to possibly a much larger 'being') is conjecture. Not suggesting gods at all


Energy is the medium of consciousness,(wiring for lack of a better word) Awareness doesn't happen without physio, biological material and interaction and that, to our knowledge, is fact. Genes carry information, synapses create exchange in them, voila! awareness, put in simple terms.

Is the universe aware and of what is it aware? That sensation, is a localized event, - relative consciousness.

The proof of this 'wiring' was what I wanted you to see the other day in the thread I suggested you look at in the 'healing' thread.

I understand your penchant to hand everything to psychological dynamics, (psycho-somatic), but you might want to consider it's inverse as well, somato-psyche (sp) as well; because the exchange between those two is not psychological at all; but a process of energy in motion.wine
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Aug 28, 2008 12:55 PM CST God vs. Science
crotalus_p: Come on Mike don’t keep us guessing how did your final go ???


I don't have my final grade, but I made a 93.5 on my research paper. It was 20% of my grade, so I now have a 91.56 without my final. I am in fairly good shape for an "A".

I just have to wait.

Sorry, brain to frazzled to construct any good arguments right now.


But then I would think most of you will be asking "How does that differ from your usual inability to mount a good argument?"



rolling on the floor laughing

I will be back as soon as I can.
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Aug 28, 2008 1:06 PM CST God vs. Science
jlw45
jlw45jlw45Moyers, Oklahoma USA66 Threads 1 Polls 15,566 Posts
kidatheart: Who knows, who cares? Prove anything at all was created by anything?
that's useing your noodle, kid...way to goprofessor thumbs up laugh tongue
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Aug 28, 2008 1:11 PM CST God vs. Science
kidatheart
kidatheartkidatheartFruitvale, British Columbia Canada30 Threads 16,544 Posts
jlw45: that's useing your noodle, kid...way to go



Yep, the chicken and the egg arguement is always a good diversion. laugh

I still don't believe in faerie tales.tongue


Still not one single shred of evidence of any sort that there is a creator of any kind?dunno
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Aug 28, 2008 1:22 PM CST God vs. Science
StressFree
StressFreeStressFreesmall city, Kalmar Sweden176 Threads 16 Polls 8,986 Posts
StressFree: Um, why did you quote yourself? We heard you the first time



Actually it sounded good. Somebody surely was playing God in the lab with gene manipulation....was not me...lol
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Aug 28, 2008 1:31 PM CST God vs. Science
BnaturAl
BnaturAlBnaturAlSarnia, Ontario Canada107 Threads 7 Polls 6,811 Posts
StressFree: Um, why did you quote yourself? We heard you the first time

Okay, so who was part of the group that ridiculed me when I promoted the theory door to door that the earth was round and not the center of the universe way back then.... Yeah, you all wanted proof then from the establishment....


I corrected me spelleeng tongue



confused wt ...f are you on about laugh



wave hello yoda!!
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Aug 28, 2008 1:34 PM CST God vs. Science
BnaturAl
BnaturAlBnaturAlSarnia, Ontario Canada107 Threads 7 Polls 6,811 Posts
kidatheart: Yep, the chicken and the egg arguement is always a good diversion.

I still don't believe in faerie tales. Still not one single shred of evidence of any sort that there is a creator of any kind?


save one kid ...energy, the only creator of anything we know of, as far as the eye and technology can see.
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Aug 28, 2008 1:36 PM CST God vs. Science
kidatheart
kidatheartkidatheartFruitvale, British Columbia Canada30 Threads 16,544 Posts
BnaturAl: save one kid ...energy, the only creator of anything we know of, as far as the eye and technology can see.



Yes, there's that, and Dr.Frankenstien.....or was that a faerie tale too.confused laugh


wave
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Aug 28, 2008 1:47 PM CST God vs. Science
jlw45
jlw45jlw45Moyers, Oklahoma USA66 Threads 1 Polls 15,566 Posts
BnaturAl: The process of genes is rather simplistic. Kind of mimics common sense when you think about it. In fact most of life itself opts for the simplest solution. In fact as simplistic an analogy as i could give you would be your computer. It functions on a series of 1's and 0's, everything that is possible to do is there in the onformation programming, the code is either in on or off position, telling the program what to do.I dont see why it would have to be some monstrous complicated ununderstandable theory. Darwin never looked at it as a monster and he was brillaint
you meant vague?
misnomer me thinks
yes i meant vague...thank you....no it does'nt have to be a big drawn out thing....but, to suggest that male and female ''split off'' from one another, come on....if we did, we'de be morhadites...and yes we all carry m/f genes...from our mother and father, imagine that!......darwin's being brilliant, well thats what seems to be the problem...darwin could'nt have known the complexities of single cell organism's...and besides, his ''theory'' came from observing finch sub-species in the galapagoes islands...thats micro, not macro...but, none the less, for male and female to have evolved at the same time, with every single organism thats needed for reproduction...well, i geuss your theory that says M/F split off like bacteria, is as good as an answer as anyrolling on the floor laughing ....[hmmm....except for maybee there was a creator]
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Aug 28, 2008 2:00 PM CST God vs. Science
BnaturAl
BnaturAlBnaturAlSarnia, Ontario Canada107 Threads 7 Polls 6,811 Posts
jlw45: yes i meant vague...thank you....no it does'nt have to be a big drawn out thing....but, to suggest that male and female ''split off'' from one another, come on....if we did, we'de be morhadites...and yes we all carry m/f genes...from our mother and father, imagine that!......darwin's being brilliant, well thats what seems to be the problem...darwin could'nt have known the complexities of single cell organism's...and besides, his ''theory'' came from observing finch sub-species in the galapagoes islands...thats micro, not macro...but, none the less, for male and female to have evolved at the same time, with every single organism thats needed for reproduction...well, i geuss your theory that says M/F split off like bacteria, is as good as an answer as any ....[hmmm....except for maybee there was a creator]


Lots of people pooed on his theory when it came out. Even the scince community, because there were so many gaps in the evolutionary chain. Since then however that chain is now 98% complete.

WHy couldn't he have known about cells?

morhadites rolling on the floor laughing you mean like worms, possessing both female and male organs.

We are infact to use your word morphadites . Your genes at birth turned off the primary female instructions in your genes. Those instructions are still there i your genes. Hermephrodites, which is what I think you were saying is proof of the 'error' that happens when enzymes don't affect proper replication of the gene and for whatever reason, produces an hermephrodite, a human with both male and female physical characteristics.

Dude daffodils share 1/3 of our genes, seriously! we share 63% of dog's genes and about 78% with apes... if you don't believe the process then we'd all be daffohumans .. haha, ..oh ok maybe youre right when it comes to creationists, a gene forgot to turn off their 'dont be daffy' instruction laugh
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Aug 28, 2008 2:15 PM CST God vs. Science
jlw45
jlw45jlw45Moyers, Oklahoma USA66 Threads 1 Polls 15,566 Posts
BnaturAl: Lots of people pooed on his theory when it came out. Even the scince community, because there were so many gaps in the evolutionary chain. Since then however that chain is now 98% complete.

WHy couldn't he have known about cells?

morhadites you mean like worms, possessing both female and male organs.

We are infact to use your word morphadites . Your genes at birth turned off the primary female instructions in your genes. Those instructions are still there i your genes. Hermephrodites, which is what I think you were saying is proof of the 'error' that happens when enzymes don't affect proper replication of the gene and for whatever reason, produces an hermephrodite, a human with both male and female physical characteristics.

Dude daffodils share 1/3 of our genes, seriously! we share 63% of dog's genes and about 78% with apes... if you don't believe the process then we'd all be daffohumans .. haha, ..oh ok maybe youre right when it comes to creationists, a gene forgot to turn off their 'dont be daffy' instruction
that gap in the chain ,you reffere to is nowhere near 98% complete....actually the gap has widened...in darwin's time there were only to seperate lines...animals and plants...there are now several more diffirent lines to bridge ,said gap.... for us to have all came from the same primordial soup there are a whole lotta' gaps to fill, for such a theory, my friend....and it is not 98% complete....as for gene's...i think YOU meant chromasomes.....rolling on the floor laughing
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Aug 28, 2008 2:39 PM CST God vs. Science
BnaturAl
BnaturAlBnaturAlSarnia, Ontario Canada107 Threads 7 Polls 6,811 Posts
jlw45: that gap in the chain ,you reffere to is nowhere near 98% complete....actually the gap has widened...in darwin's time there were only to seperate lines...animals and plants...there are now several more diffirent lines to bridge ,said gap.... for us to have all came from the same primordial soup there are a whole lotta' gaps to fill, for such a theory, my friend....and it is not 98% complete....as for gene's...i think YOU meant chromasomes.....




how do you think chromosomes get to become chromosomes? the same way feet become feet, and blood cells get to become blood cells, stomache lining becomes stomache lining, etc ..... genes!roll eyes

Youre just plain way behind in your evolution information. Reputeable scientists now accept it as fact. Youre right I said there were a lot of gaps when he wrote the theory so I'm not sure why youre attacking on that. Other scientists have carried on his work and completed the links. The only gap that's widened is the one between what 'you think you know' and what is known.

They are able with a creature's enzymes to take that creature that has a single heart chamber and have it form another fully functioning chamber in the heart of that creature. Simply by turning ON the available code of that gene.

The code is all there, its a simple matter of on or off in the code. The code also evolves and mutates on occasion as I noted because for whatever reason the enzymes don't do a perfect job of assisting in replication of the genes. This sometimes as I have noted creates misformed limbs, hermephrodites and other, what we consider to be, abhorations. Aint no god and if it was I'd be pretty pissed with his sick sense of humor.
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Aug 28, 2008 3:53 PM CST God vs. Science
jlw45
jlw45jlw45Moyers, Oklahoma USA66 Threads 1 Polls 15,566 Posts
BnaturAl: how do you think chromo somes get to become chromosomes? the same way feet become feet, and blood cells get to become blood cells, stomache lining becomes stomache lining, etc ..... genes!

Youre just plain way behind in your evolution information. Reputeable scientists now accept it as fact. Youre right I said there were a lot of gaps when he wrote the theory so I'm not sure why youre attacking on that. Other scientists have carried on his work and completed the links. The only gap that's widened is the one between what 'you think you know' and what is known.

They are able with a creature's enzymes to take that creature that has a single heart chamber and have it form another fully functioning chamber in the heart of that creature. Simply by turning ON the available code of that gene.

The code is all there, its a simple matter of on or off in the code. The code also evolves and mutates on occasion as I noted because for whatever reason the enzymes don't do a perfect job of assisting in replication of the genes. This sometimes as I have noted creates misformed limbs, hermephrodites and other, what we consider to be, abhorations. Aint no god and if it was I'd be pretty pissed with his sick sense of humor.
come on B...you know its not fact...i can tell your smarter then that...but, like i said before...it all boils down to faith....you have a humanistic faith... and i would rather put my faith in a creator....humans have a much worse track record for a sick sence of humor....have a great day Bwave
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Aug 28, 2008 5:02 PM CST God vs. Science
BnaturAl
BnaturAlBnaturAlSarnia, Ontario Canada107 Threads 7 Polls 6,811 Posts
jlw45: come on B...you know its not fact...i can tell your smarter then that...but, like i said before...it all boils down to faith....you have a humanistic faith... and i would rather put my faith in a creator....humans have a much worse track record for a sick sence of humor....have a great day B



oooo, veiled put down .. that's how smart I am. tongue

under your 'no proof' belief god made those humans ... it kind of backwashes on god that way. dunno

he can't be the creator and then all of a sudden, oh no he didnt do that part. roll eyes

I'll take evolution, its factual, proveable, functional, simplistic, explainable and doesn't require faith or worship or excuses for how it behaves. Evolution takes responsibility for every part, not just the good faith parts.

god is always being excused for his behavior. :boooo: :hisss: tongue



beer
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Aug 28, 2008 5:03 PM CST God vs. Science
crotalus_p
crotalus_pcrotalus_pRush, Dublin Ireland43 Threads 6 Polls 2,789 Posts
jlw45: come on B...you know its not fact...


Sorry jlw45 But it is fact, after extensive peer review it is excepted as such by the real scientists (as apposed to the creationist ones who enjoy ignoring facts and making things up to suite their agenda, whilst rarely holding any valid credentials that would qualify them as scientists)

jlw45: i can tell your smarter then that...


Does the fact that creationists statistically have lower IQ’s then evolutionists not give you at least some doubt as to the power of their argument ??


jlw45: it all boils down to faith

You need faith to be a creationist because there is no evidence in fact all the evidence we do have points in exactly the opposite direction so you also need a healthy dollop of wilful ignorance ,to be an evolutionist needs no faith you only need to fallow the evidence and apply logic



and i would rather put my faith in a creator.


And what evidence do you have for this creator you speak of ??



jlw45: ...humans have a much worse track record for a sick sence of humor


What ever about our track record at least we have one your fictional character does not scold
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Aug 28, 2008 5:42 PM CST God vs. Science
charlos
charloscharlosBraunschweig, Lower Saxony Germany1 Threads 243 Posts
BnaturAl: those are just god experiments gone wrong


god goofs ? Holy hell, I knew it devil
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