Bridging The GREAT DIVIDE ! (227)
Ambrose2007: Well, it's hard to see how an olive branch can be meaningful if it rests essentially on one agreeing with you, IV.
What might be more meaningful would be to ask how we might best solve problems like healthcare and so on, and to be willing to entertain opposing ideas fairly and reasonably.
What might be more meaningful would be to ask how we might best solve problems like healthcare and so on, and to be willing to entertain opposing ideas fairly and reasonably.
Yes, I have done that - over and over , in the streets and with friends . What I have learned - is that republicans and conservatists truly hate a black intelligent president who's direction is completely opposit of their archaic, antiquated and proven failures for principles to prosper as a country.
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jvaski: Some women just hide behind their fabricated quotes with hopes they insult others .....
Or because they just have to say something.
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jvaski: Ambrose, Unfortunately - your opionions are just that - Yours .
I believe Obama's been on the right track and has accomplished quite a bit ! But, unfortunately when someone such as yourself hates a president as much .....it's pointless to debate the issues and merely is interpretive like saying somethings grey or blue.
I'm not the least bit emotionally disturbed that you don't care for him .
I believe Obama's been on the right track and has accomplished quite a bit ! But, unfortunately when someone such as yourself hates a president as much .....it's pointless to debate the issues and merely is interpretive like saying somethings grey or blue.
I'm not the least bit emotionally disturbed that you don't care for him .
Well, I have no idea what about his track record you like, IV. And I'm not sure what the point is of stating the obvious - that my opinions are mine.
I'm going to guess that you haven't actually examined the details of what Obama's "accomplished," but rather are simply responding to him on an emotional basis.
There's nothing pointless about true debate - that is, a discussion where actual facts are considered. It certainly is pointless to debate with someone who "just likes" a person but has no interest in or knowledge of what that person has done.
I could name a long list of things Obama's administration has done, and ask you what you think of those things individually, I suppose. Was the bailout of corporate interests a good thing, for example? Reneging on his promise to get troops out of Iraq? Reaffirming the Patriot Act? Reaffirming the Bush Admin's stand on torture? Continuing a commitment to covert government when he promised transparency?
What do you think of these things, IV? Is there any substance to your beliefs, or is it just about your gut feeling that Obama's a nice guy? If so, is there any difference between that emotional stance and people's previous belief that Bush was just a "regular good guy"?
Shouldn't one's opinions of an administration rest on a measured consideration of actual facts as opposed to visceral reactions?
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Ambrose2007: That kind of logic would require that everything - all forms of exchanges between people - be made compulsory, because basically all forms of bad or irresponsible behavior (for example, drinking or eating too much or even being an a**hole) impose costs on society.
Incidentally, being older or less healthy raises insurance premiums as well. Aren't you sick of paying for them??
Do you truly believe that the additional costs of insuring people with prior conditions, or eliminating service caps, won't be passed on to health insurance customers?
Incidentally, being older or less healthy raises insurance premiums as well. Aren't you sick of paying for them??
Do you truly believe that the additional costs of insuring people with prior conditions, or eliminating service caps, won't be passed on to health insurance customers?
Part of that post was copied from another, with my reply directly behind it ....
To answer your question.....I expect to pay sunsidy for others less fortunate through either my taxes or insurance - but not at the rate it has recently become. The uninsured use our system failures because they know they have to be treated. And the medical providers, hospitals, insurance companies very simply pass the cost on to anyone who has health insurance .
So, for this reason I think the halth care reform was smart to pass - but it needs further adjustment to include either regulation to curb runaway medical costs. Whether it be public option or regulation - it needs to be
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jvaski: Yes, I have done that - over and over , in the streets and with friends . What I have learned - is that republicans and conservatists truly hate a black intelligent president who's direction is completely opposit of their archaic, antiquated and proven failures for principles to prosper as a country.
His beliefs, as far as I can see from looking at what he's actually said and done - as opposed to being enthralled with his public image - are basically identical to the "archaic, antiquated, and proven failures" of the Bush Administration. So if Bush's policies failed to cause our country to prosper, I'm not sure what possible basis there could be for believing that Obama's policies will cause prosperity.
He's continued all of Bush's policies, and even expanded on some of them. Thus far the only difference is his healthcare bill.
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"I could name a long list of things Obama's administration has done, and ask you what you think of those things individually, I suppose. Was the bailout of corporate interests a good thing, for example? Reneging on his promise to get troops out of Iraq? Reaffirming the Patriot Act? Reaffirming the Bush Admin's stand on torture? Continuing a commitment to covert government when he promised transparency"
Was the bail-out started by the previous administration?
Was it maybe necessary to avoid a true depression and economic collapse ? 
Did Obama not actually state that troops from Iraq are all to return by Oct this year ?
get out of the forums Ambrose and watch the news once in a while ......
Was the bail-out started by the previous administration?
Was it maybe necessary to avoid a true depression and economic collapse ? Did Obama not actually state that troops from Iraq are all to return by Oct this year ?
get out of the forums Ambrose and watch the news once in a while ......
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Ambrose2007: His beliefs, as far as I can see from looking at what he's actually said and done - as opposed to being enthralled with his public image - are basically identical to the "archaic, antiquated, and proven failures" of the Bush Administration. So if Bush's policies failed to cause our country to prosper, I'm not sure what possible basis there could be for believing that Obama's policies will cause prosperity.
He's continued all of Bush's policies, and even expanded on some of them. Thus far the only difference is his healthcare bill.
He's continued all of Bush's policies, and even expanded on some of them. Thus far the only difference is his healthcare bill.
He may be enhancing some of the previous administration's policies - but beyond that His direction is "worlds apart" .
Obama has done as much as he can - considering the obstructionism of rebubs .........but he's not done yet - and neither are any of us who believe in a future with change .
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Ambrose2007: His beliefs, as far as I can see from looking at what he's actually said and done - as opposed to being enthralled with his public image - are basically identical to the "archaic, antiquated, and proven failures" of the Bush Administration. So if Bush's policies failed to cause our country to prosper, I'm not sure what possible basis there could be for believing that Obama's policies will cause prosperity.
He's continued all of Bush's policies, and even expanded on some of them. Thus far the only difference is his healthcare bill.
He's continued all of Bush's policies, and even expanded on some of them. Thus far the only difference is his healthcare bill.
And NO, ....I'm not all "enthrawled" and goo goo-eyed with this new guy . I don't agree with everything he's doing either.
BUT, given the choice to continue the path our last brilliant administration was on and going directly opposit direction - I'm happy to take my chances.
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ok, I'm done for a bit .......
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jvaski: "I could name a long list of things Obama's administration has done, and ask you what you think of those things individually, I suppose. Was the bailout of corporate interests a good thing, for example? Reneging on his promise to get troops out of Iraq? Reaffirming the Patriot Act? Reaffirming the Bush Admin's stand on torture? Continuing a commitment to covert government when he promised transparency"Was the bail-out started by the previous administration? Was it maybe necessary to avoid a true depression and economic collapse ?
Did Obama not actually state that troops from Iraq are all to return by Oct this year ?
get out of the forums Ambrose and watch the news once in a while ......
Did Obama not actually state that troops from Iraq are all to return by Oct this year ?
get out of the forums Ambrose and watch the news once in a while ......
Of course the bail-out was started by the previous administration. That's a central point of mine - that Obama's following in Bush's footsteps in most matters of policy.
I daresay, IV, that I've done vastly more reading outside these forums on this subject (and probably most other subjects) than you have.
Obama promised to withdraw troops by 2009. While failing to do that (adding at least two more years to that pointless war), he added another thirty thousand to that other utterly pointless war in Afghanistan. If Bush had done that, I suspect you would've been opposed, no?
And no, bailing out his corporate pals was most definitely not needed to save this country.
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*Chuckle*
Let me ask you something if I may? Many people have opinions, we were given that by Creator. The gift of free will, the gift of using our tongues and minds wisely. The ability to get along and to accept that if we have differences, to shake hands, agree to disagree and to move on to the next subject at hand. If you don't want to hear something, just say, "I don't want to hear it right now, maybe later", then move on to whatever else comes up to talk about.
What is it about a conflicting opinion that troubles you so? Why do you and others who believe the way that you do feel the need to belittle someone who believes differently from yourselves? Whatever happened to the philosophy of "live and let live and never the 'twain shall meet?" Instead it's gone from applying that philosophy to belittling, insulting, name calling and worse. Why? And for what reason? I don't feel the need to constantly badger someone who I don't agree with. Why do it in the first place? To make yourself somehow feel "superior"? Or "better" than someone else? Really? To be perfectly and yes, brutally honest, it's a turn off to women to witness a man treating people like so much offal and on the internet at that.If a man does that to people on the internet, it's a pretty sure bet he treats the people in his life dreadfully as well.It speaks volumes about that person's character and not a good character at that. That's not a person I'd like to get to know. In fact, that's a person to stay very far away from because that negativity that they emit doesn't need to exist in someone elses' life. I've observed this behavior from certain members for months. It's little wonder why so many are single. Nobody wants to hang around someone who behaves like a jerk.
We aren't meant as humans to always have to agree or be perfect or all march in the same line. We weren't created to be that way. We are created to be our own individual. Some folks have a real problem with that and do their best to try to make others fit into their mold. Human molds are one of a kind and it's not one size fits all. That's something that needs to be accepted if you want to say that's having a keen mind and being open.
Sometimes we need to tend to our own pumpkin patch and take a good hard look at ourselves and how we treat others before we go digging in other people's gardens. Just some thoughts.
Let me ask you something if I may? Many people have opinions, we were given that by Creator. The gift of free will, the gift of using our tongues and minds wisely. The ability to get along and to accept that if we have differences, to shake hands, agree to disagree and to move on to the next subject at hand. If you don't want to hear something, just say, "I don't want to hear it right now, maybe later", then move on to whatever else comes up to talk about.
What is it about a conflicting opinion that troubles you so? Why do you and others who believe the way that you do feel the need to belittle someone who believes differently from yourselves? Whatever happened to the philosophy of "live and let live and never the 'twain shall meet?" Instead it's gone from applying that philosophy to belittling, insulting, name calling and worse. Why? And for what reason? I don't feel the need to constantly badger someone who I don't agree with. Why do it in the first place? To make yourself somehow feel "superior"? Or "better" than someone else? Really? To be perfectly and yes, brutally honest, it's a turn off to women to witness a man treating people like so much offal and on the internet at that.If a man does that to people on the internet, it's a pretty sure bet he treats the people in his life dreadfully as well.It speaks volumes about that person's character and not a good character at that. That's not a person I'd like to get to know. In fact, that's a person to stay very far away from because that negativity that they emit doesn't need to exist in someone elses' life. I've observed this behavior from certain members for months. It's little wonder why so many are single. Nobody wants to hang around someone who behaves like a jerk.
We aren't meant as humans to always have to agree or be perfect or all march in the same line. We weren't created to be that way. We are created to be our own individual. Some folks have a real problem with that and do their best to try to make others fit into their mold. Human molds are one of a kind and it's not one size fits all. That's something that needs to be accepted if you want to say that's having a keen mind and being open.
Sometimes we need to tend to our own pumpkin patch and take a good hard look at ourselves and how we treat others before we go digging in other people's gardens. Just some thoughts.
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Ambrose2007: Of course the bail-out was started by the previous administration. That's a central point of mine - that Obama's following in Bush's footsteps in most matters of policy.
I daresay, IV, that I've done vastly more reading outside these forums on this subject (and probably most other subjects) than you have.
Obama promised to withdraw troops by 2009. While failing to do that (adding at least two more years to that pointless war), he added another thirty thousand to that other utterly pointless war in Afghanistan. If Bush had done that, I suspect you would've been opposed, no?
And no, bailing out his corporate pals was most definitely not needed to save this country.
I daresay, IV, that I've done vastly more reading outside these forums on this subject (and probably most other subjects) than you have.
Obama promised to withdraw troops by 2009. While failing to do that (adding at least two more years to that pointless war), he added another thirty thousand to that other utterly pointless war in Afghanistan. If Bush had done that, I suspect you would've been opposed, no?
And no, bailing out his corporate pals was most definitely not needed to save this country.
Well then, I am sorry that you feel it necessary to converse with a less intelligent and ill-informed person who does no reading outside this forum .....
It must be hard to have all that knowlege and not be able to convince those of us who are not well-read and challenged ..
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jvaski: He may be enhancing some of the previous administration's policies - but beyond that His direction is "worlds apart" .
Obama has done as much as he can - considering the obstructionism of rebubs .........but he's not done yet - and neither are any of us who believe in a future with change .
Obama has done as much as he can - considering the obstructionism of rebubs .........but he's not done yet - and neither are any of us who believe in a future with change .
"World's apart'?? How??
This is a question that has some meat to it. I say Obama is basically Bush 2, you say he's the opposite of Bush.
Should be fairly easily to check the facts and see which position they better support, eh?
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jvaski: Well then, I am sorry that you feel it necessary to converse with a less intelligent and ill-informed person who does no reading outside this forum .....
It must be hard to have all that knowlege and not be able to convince those of us who are not well-read and challenged ..
It must be hard to have all that knowlege and not be able to convince those of us who are not well-read and challenged ..
It is a terrible cross to bear, IV.
I don't mean to be condescending - but remember, I was replying to an accusation you made of me (that I'm not well-read...not a good idea, IV
).I'm willing to have a discussion which fairly considers what Obama has or has not accomplished. Give me a list of good things you think he's accomplished - let's start with that. Fair enough?
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jlw45: it aint the smile he's so taken with...it's teleprompter prowess...
I would give anything to have a president I admire. That would've happened if Ron Paul had been elected, by the way, despite his lack of a pretty smile (though he does have a sort of cute dimple).
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Ambrose2007: It is a terrible cross to bear, IV.
I don't mean to be condescending - but remember, I was replying to an accusation you made of me (that I'm not well-read...not a good idea, IV).
I'm willing to have a discussion which fairly considers what Obama has or has not accomplished. Give me a list of good things you think he's accomplished - let's start with that. Fair enough?
I don't mean to be condescending - but remember, I was replying to an accusation you made of me (that I'm not well-read...not a good idea, IV).
I'm willing to have a discussion which fairly considers what Obama has or has not accomplished. Give me a list of good things you think he's accomplished - let's start with that. Fair enough?
give me a minute, i'm still thinking...
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RevWhiteWolf: *Chuckle*
Let me ask you something if I may? Many people have opinions, we were given that by Creator. The gift of free will, the gift of using our tongues and minds wisely. The ability to get along and to accept that if we have differences, to shake hands, agree to disagree and to move on to the next subject at hand. If you don't want to hear something, just say, "I don't want to hear it right now, maybe later", then move on to whatever else comes up to talk about.
What is it about a conflicting opinion that troubles you so? Why do you and others who believe the way that you do feel the need to belittle someone who believes differently from yourselves? Whatever happened to the philosophy of "live and let live and never the 'twain shall meet?" Instead it's gone from applying that philosophy to belittling, insulting, name calling and worse. Why? And for what reason? I don't feel the need to constantly badger someone who I don't agree with. Why do it in the first place? To make yourself somehow feel "superior"? Or "better" than someone else? Really? To be perfectly and yes, brutally honest, it's a turn off to women to witness a man treating people like so much offal and on the internet at that.If a man does that to people on the internet, it's a pretty sure bet he treats the people in his life dreadfully as well.It speaks volumes about that person's character and not a good character at that. That's not a person I'd like to get to know. In fact, that's a person to stay very far away from because that negativity that they emit doesn't need to exist in someone elses' life. I've observed this behavior from certain members for months. It's little wonder why so many are single. Nobody wants to hang around someone who behaves like a jerk.
We aren't meant as humans to always have to agree or be perfect or all march in the same line. We weren't created to be that way. We are created to be our own individual. Some folks have a real problem with that and do their best to try to make others fit into their mold. Human molds are one of a kind and it's not one size fits all. That's something that needs to be accepted if you want to say that's having a keen mind and being open.
Sometimes we need to tend to our own pumpkin patch and take a good hard look at ourselves and how we treat others before we go digging in other people's gardens. Just some thoughts.
Let me ask you something if I may? Many people have opinions, we were given that by Creator. The gift of free will, the gift of using our tongues and minds wisely. The ability to get along and to accept that if we have differences, to shake hands, agree to disagree and to move on to the next subject at hand. If you don't want to hear something, just say, "I don't want to hear it right now, maybe later", then move on to whatever else comes up to talk about.
What is it about a conflicting opinion that troubles you so? Why do you and others who believe the way that you do feel the need to belittle someone who believes differently from yourselves? Whatever happened to the philosophy of "live and let live and never the 'twain shall meet?" Instead it's gone from applying that philosophy to belittling, insulting, name calling and worse. Why? And for what reason? I don't feel the need to constantly badger someone who I don't agree with. Why do it in the first place? To make yourself somehow feel "superior"? Or "better" than someone else? Really? To be perfectly and yes, brutally honest, it's a turn off to women to witness a man treating people like so much offal and on the internet at that.If a man does that to people on the internet, it's a pretty sure bet he treats the people in his life dreadfully as well.It speaks volumes about that person's character and not a good character at that. That's not a person I'd like to get to know. In fact, that's a person to stay very far away from because that negativity that they emit doesn't need to exist in someone elses' life. I've observed this behavior from certain members for months. It's little wonder why so many are single. Nobody wants to hang around someone who behaves like a jerk.
We aren't meant as humans to always have to agree or be perfect or all march in the same line. We weren't created to be that way. We are created to be our own individual. Some folks have a real problem with that and do their best to try to make others fit into their mold. Human molds are one of a kind and it's not one size fits all. That's something that needs to be accepted if you want to say that's having a keen mind and being open.
Sometimes we need to tend to our own pumpkin patch and take a good hard look at ourselves and how we treat others before we go digging in other people's gardens. Just some thoughts.
With that, you have my apology for badgering you , but you should take note that you promptly jumped on it with direct insults.
I'm here for the entertainment value in these forums and care-not to actually dive into a bloody battle over anything.
We're all entitled to our opinions, and to express them here.
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jlw45: give me a minute, i'm still thinking...
Too bad, JW, your time's almost up.
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Ambrose2007: It is a terrible cross to bear, IV.
I don't mean to be condescending - but remember, I was replying to an accusation you made of me (that I'm not well-read...not a good idea, IV).
I'm willing to have a discussion which fairly considers what Obama has or has not accomplished. Give me a list of good things you think he's accomplished - let's start with that. Fair enough?
I don't mean to be condescending - but remember, I was replying to an accusation you made of me (that I'm not well-read...not a good idea, IV).
I'm willing to have a discussion which fairly considers what Obama has or has not accomplished. Give me a list of good things you think he's accomplished - let's start with that. Fair enough?
I don't reacll that I accused you of being not well-red Ambrose
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I haven't read through the whole thread at this point, IV.