Obama for president......Battle of Island Number Ten! (800)
ttom500: Hillary won 62% to 38%. If that is pathetic, what is a tidalwave win?
62 to 37
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ttom500: Hillary won 62% to 38%. If that is pathetic, what is a tidalwave win?
you are right she won unfortunatily in my point of view.....
But the pathetic I think was her followers cried all over tv or when they shouted "McCain for president" on the streets.......thats pathetic in deed. I dont think any serious person votes just out of madness or any thing like that but .....that Hillary supporteres and a vote for he is a vote for McCain any way.
I hope this show is soon over and the main battle begins.....
I miss seeing real bloody politichal battles on tv and in news and on net....That is really some thing ......and she can tnot possibly making any thing like that against the old dude....she will loose big and that is not what I wish to see you know!
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opalbeauty: the longer Hillary stays in the more she is dividing the party. I believe the remaining superdelegates will make their decision of who they support soon to keep this from happening. She is in defiance of her own party now and I don't think they will just sit back and allow her to continue this fighting and dividing and not reprimand her. I think within the next few days she will have to get out.
She has the popular vote now and has beat him in the major deligate states. Has a right to take Fl and MI to the certifications committee during the DNC. And just swamped him in the last large last primary.
Sounds like time to quit to me.
Opal, she has been at this for going on 16 months now. The lady is not going to quit. I expect when you go up to do the introduction speech for Obama at the DNC, she is going to shove you off the stage.
Make a one last plea to have a recount on Fl And MI and then take the mike away so you cannot use it.
Please, the last para was said in jest.
But I think that you have to see this for what it is. That until Barak makes the magic number and it is solid....meaning that the super deligates have reconfirmed thier vote....which they can change.
The lady is staying in the race.
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The state of the race......
Barack Obama, pledged delegates 1738, Super delegates 329, Total number is: 2067
Hillary Clinton, pledged delegates 1618, Super delegates 291, Total number is: 1909
Obama leads by 158 pledged delegates and Super delegates, and there are 38 more Super delegates on Obamas side.
The matter of Florida and Michigan made a change a bout the majority number which is needed to get the nomination. the matter seems complicated still but I have no doubt by now that Obama will be the nominated by now.
GO OBAMA GO !!!!!
Montana and South Dakota ......2 days more......then either a long battle to gith still this time by lawyers and so on or Hillary will accept her devistation of the Democratic party and her being less electable than Obama and will go and getting ready for the next time.
She has not my respect because she still is there and trying.....Not all fights are understandable or admirable fights in my mind! She shall soon as possible withdraw before she kills some body or some thing
Barack Obama, pledged delegates 1738, Super delegates 329, Total number is: 2067
Hillary Clinton, pledged delegates 1618, Super delegates 291, Total number is: 1909
Obama leads by 158 pledged delegates and Super delegates, and there are 38 more Super delegates on Obamas side.
The matter of Florida and Michigan made a change a bout the majority number which is needed to get the nomination. the matter seems complicated still but I have no doubt by now that Obama will be the nominated by now.
GO OBAMA GO !!!!!
Montana and South Dakota ......2 days more......then either a long battle to gith still this time by lawyers and so on or Hillary will accept her devistation of the Democratic party and her being less electable than Obama and will go and getting ready for the next time.
She has not my respect because she still is there and trying.....Not all fights are understandable or admirable fights in my mind! She shall soon as possible withdraw before she kills some body or some thing
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Hot_Single_Dude: you are right she won unfortunatily in my point of view.....
But the pathetic I think was her followers cried all over tv or when they shouted "McCain for president" on the streets.......thats pathetic in deed. I dont think any serious person votes just out of madness or any thing like that but .....that Hillary supporteres and a vote for he is a vote for McCain any way.
I hope this show is soon over and the main battle begins.....
I miss seeing real bloody politichal battles on tv and in news and on net....That is really some thing ......and she can tnot possibly making any thing like that against the old dude....she will loose big and that is not what I wish to see you know!
But the pathetic I think was her followers cried all over tv or when they shouted "McCain for president" on the streets.......thats pathetic in deed. I dont think any serious person votes just out of madness or any thing like that but .....that Hillary supporteres and a vote for he is a vote for McCain any way.
I hope this show is soon over and the main battle begins.....
I miss seeing real bloody politichal battles on tv and in news and on net....That is really some thing ......and she can tnot possibly making any thing like that against the old dude....she will loose big and that is not what I wish to see you know!
Dude, we try to avoid 'bloody political battles on tv and in the news and on the net'. We have had them in the past. People get killed and injured in them and democracy is not done in them. I know you are speaking in Canidate campaign battles. But bad choice of words, OK?
The best thing that democracy offers is a peaceful change of power. But if the political process to make the change of power is a bloody one, then it is a failure of the country and its people that allowed it to occur.
Also those Puerto Ricans.....on the streets.....just might have been McCain supporters.....not Hillary Dem voters. Free speech babe, free speech.
LOL....you guys are tieing everything to McCain....GWB and McCain....Hillary and McCain.....Dem Voters and McCain......Rev. Wright and McCain....Carl Rove and McCain ...........the kitchen sink and McCain.....ever stop and think that this is pretty good free political advertising for McCain? Remember that comment I made a few threads back....every time you mention the opponets name.....is a good thing for him?
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Indyfella: It's hard to tell how many more "nutjobs" will come out of the woodwork once Obama wins. All wanting some special favor.
Not just that they are in a position to embaress the country and the Presidency by their connection with him. My little hypothetical is the real deal on this. You want to shut down talks on something faster than a snapping turtle pulls its legs and head into the shell....that is the way to do it.
Barak may want to go meet with all these leaders of foreign countries now.......after Rev. Wright or Father Pfeleger or others get thru mocking thier country, customs, culture and religion...not sure the door will be open for him to do it.
In essence they can use this to force him to talk with only those they approve. Imagine the first time he has a meeting with the say the Isreali prime minister.....and one of them does a Jewish rant?
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Hot_Single_Dude: I am not sure why on earht MCain did not know what kind of monster hagee and Parsley who voting for McCain and no body else before he was forced to kind of "distance" him from those and getting back to them when the Nukes are going to be launched if McCain gets the presidency some day. I dont know how on earth even me knew all a bout those two and McCain did not know and that alone is a lie which makes McCain a lier in my eyes.
The trouble a bout Wright is not over and as tol before he is going to come after Obama massively soon and his taxation problems are much more important than his beleifs or any thing else then he will be there I bet ....soon.
Father Plfgere .....he told exactly what it is to tell and Obama,s making distance to his Just remarks is not some thing I understand but ok this is the way it is when the race goes on and they are all fast in getting rid of trouble. Of course Hillary has showed new true faces of her self some people did not know a bout and she is some how absoloutely sure she is better than Oama because she is White and I find that very disgusting as a matter of fact. This and her other remark with giving the ball to some psykos witht alking a bout Rober Kennedy,s tragichal assissination is really deep trouble and hopefully no body will forget those. Of course some people like Clinton even more because she told as she told in both oacations because there are many voters wanting that kind of stuff as well as it is in any other country.
All presidents have Buddies ....dont ever doubt a bout that fact TT. Some Buddies getting a job if they are clever enough in a new administration and some others getting those if they have a lot of money or a lot shares in death industry......Exactly up to which president the next president will be.
The trouble a bout Wright is not over and as tol before he is going to come after Obama massively soon and his taxation problems are much more important than his beleifs or any thing else then he will be there I bet ....soon.
Father Plfgere .....he told exactly what it is to tell and Obama,s making distance to his Just remarks is not some thing I understand but ok this is the way it is when the race goes on and they are all fast in getting rid of trouble. Of course Hillary has showed new true faces of her self some people did not know a bout and she is some how absoloutely sure she is better than Oama because she is White and I find that very disgusting as a matter of fact. This and her other remark with giving the ball to some psykos witht alking a bout Rober Kennedy,s tragichal assissination is really deep trouble and hopefully no body will forget those. Of course some people like Clinton even more because she told as she told in both oacations because there are many voters wanting that kind of stuff as well as it is in any other country.
All presidents have Buddies ....dont ever doubt a bout that fact TT. Some Buddies getting a job if they are clever enough in a new administration and some others getting those if they have a lot of money or a lot shares in death industry......Exactly up to which president the next president will be.
Dude did you read my post on mocking foreign countries? And the impact it would have? If these guys will mock his political opponet, they will mock foreign leaders, countries, cultures, races, and religions.
Each would be an embaressment to his administration. And a method for them to play into international politics. They don't even need now with the media that they gained, to be in a gov't office or connected to him. The media will pick it up and make news.....
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ttom500: Dude, we try to avoid 'bloody political battles on tv and in the news and on the net'. We have had them in the past. People get killed and injured in them and democracy is not done in them. I know you are speaking in Canidate campaign battles. But bad choice of words, OK?
The best thing that democracy offers is a peaceful change of power. But if the political process to make the change of power is a bloody one, then it is a failure of the country and its people that allowed it to occur.
Also those Puerto Ricans.....on the streets.....just might have been McCain supporters.....not Hillary Dem voters. Free speech babe, free speech.
LOL....you guys are tieing everything to McCain....GWB and McCain....Hillary and McCain.....Dem Voters and McCain......Rev. Wright and McCain....Carl Rove and McCain ...........the kitchen sink and McCain.....ever stop and think that this is pretty good free political advertising for McCain? Remember that comment I made a few threads back....every time you mention the opponets name.....is a good thing for him?
The best thing that democracy offers is a peaceful change of power. But if the political process to make the change of power is a bloody one, then it is a failure of the country and its people that allowed it to occur.
Also those Puerto Ricans.....on the streets.....just might have been McCain supporters.....not Hillary Dem voters. Free speech babe, free speech.
LOL....you guys are tieing everything to McCain....GWB and McCain....Hillary and McCain.....Dem Voters and McCain......Rev. Wright and McCain....Carl Rove and McCain ...........the kitchen sink and McCain.....ever stop and think that this is pretty good free political advertising for McCain? Remember that comment I made a few threads back....every time you mention the opponets name.....is a good thing for him?
It is not real bloody ones I miss to see TT man!And you know this as well......
Bloody means like two candidates with Really differnet views like McCain and Obama than seeing two really look a liked who try to look tougher than the other one doing almost the same and by that I mean Hillary and McCain
People on the street were Hillary supporters...I saw on CNN. But of course freedom of speach is great.....That just shows how pathetic some of them are behaving them selves and their behaviour is not wondering me at all.
I am sure you are doing exactly the same a bout Obama TT...tieing him to every thing!If you can be allowed to Tie Ayers and Obama then McCain must not be spared of any thing what so ever!
Surely a "True Hero" going in bed with another woman when he still was married, cheating his wife who helped him coming back to America from Vietnam nad fought bravely for him in all those horrible years he was there,and did so much for him and helped him through his worse periode of PTSD and surely hold on to this mentaly destroyed dude back then and .....he met Cindy and jumped in bed with her and just after a time told his former wife and finally divorced and dumped her. Well......this is a Fact with no doubts and without any "Maybe"s or any thing like that! You would use it massively agaisnt Obama even if he had kissed another one some where.....and there are a lot other real non deniable Facts a bout McCain and his famliy out there as well..Bush Campain provided the most detailes and the rest from back then till now is already aviable as well.
Or his health? 1200 new pages since year 2000? 150 new pages each year ....as Jon Stewart told on the Daily show? And only three hours to study those for few selective journalists? Gathering money behind close doors from Whom knows? gosh the dued is a piece of cake to beat for Obama I am sure.
This is what I call Bloody debates not with real blood sheed TT!No body must get killed of course. I try to use an american slang you see?
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ttom500: Dude did you read my post on mocking foreign countries? And the impact it would have? If these guys will mock his political opponet, they will mock foreign leaders, countries, cultures, races, and religions.
Each would be an embaressment to his administration. And a method for them to play into international politics. They don't even need now with the media that they gained, to be in a gov't office or connected to him. The media will pick it up and make news.....
Each would be an embaressment to his administration. And a method for them to play into international politics. They don't even need now with the media that they gained, to be in a gov't office or connected to him. The media will pick it up and make news.....
Can any kind of embaressement being worse than the kind of embaressements GWB and his fellows brought for America nationally and internationally......Ever?
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For tom
New York Times
Forewarned but Angry, Florida Democrats Weigh Primary Penalty
By ABBY GOODNOUGH
Published: September 9, 2007
The anger coursing lately through Democratic circles in Florida feels unlike any since the presidential recount of 2000.
This time, though, the object of wrath is the Democratic National Committee, which voted last month to punish Florida harshly for moving up its presidential primary to January. Under pressure from the four states permitted to hold contests that month, many Democratic candidates have pledged not to campaign in Florida and other states that break party rules.
Barring a compromise, none of Florida's delegates can be seated at next summer's party convention, which means the state Democratic primary will essentially count for nothing. Florida Democrats are calling it a cruel irony, not least because their party has worked doggedly to restore public confidence in the electoral process since 2000.
''The D.N.C. apparently wants us to campaign on the slogan of 'Make sure not a single vote counts,' '' said State Senator Steven A. Geller, the minority leader. Incensed by the sanctions, even though he knew they were possible when he voted in May to change the primary date, Mr. Geller scrapped plans to endorse former Senator John Edwards of North Carolina and is urging against donating to the national committee or to candidates who avoid campaigning here.
At least one major donor, Wayne Hogan of Jacksonville, Fla., called off a fund-raising event he was organizing for the national committee after the vote on Aug. 25. Mr. Hogan, a trial lawyer, said he would contribute to candidates but could no longer stomach helping the committee.
''They're playing into a trap set by the Republican Party,'' Mr. Hogan said. ''It's pretty much that simple.''
Under the rules of both national parties, no state can hold a presidential primary or caucus earlier than Feb. 5 without the party's permission. Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina are the only states that have it. Nonetheless, the Florida Legislature voted in May to schedule primaries for Jan. 29, saying the populous and diverse swing state deserved a more prominent role in choosing presidential nominees.
In recent years, Florida's primaries have taken place in March, by which time the nominee is clear.
The change was pushed through by Republicans, who hold a majority in both houses of the Legislature and will suffer less serious penalties. Under Republican National Committee rules, Florida will lose half its delegates to the Republican convention.
While their party had more to lose, Democratic state lawmakers joined Republicans in voting to move up the primary -- a decision for which some fellow Democrats are now chiding them.
''Florida Is Its Own Worst Enemy'' was the headline on a commentary article by Donna Brazile, a member of the Democratic National Committee's rules and bylaws committee, printed this week in The Miami Herald.
But State Representative Dan Gelber, the minority leader, said Democrats' opposition would not have made a difference. Besides, he said, many of the state's 4.25 million registered Democrats wanted an earlier primary.
''To a certain extent, I feel like I'm in an argument with my spouse,'' Mr. Gelber said of the recent fighting within his party. ''It really is a circular firing squad.''
Some Democrats said they were most worried about the candidates' ability to establish ground operations in Florida if they could not campaign here until February. Losing visits from the candidates, they said, is far more troubling than losing delegates to the convention, which many predict the nominee will seat in the end.
New York Times
Forewarned but Angry, Florida Democrats Weigh Primary Penalty
By ABBY GOODNOUGH
Published: September 9, 2007
The anger coursing lately through Democratic circles in Florida feels unlike any since the presidential recount of 2000.
This time, though, the object of wrath is the Democratic National Committee, which voted last month to punish Florida harshly for moving up its presidential primary to January. Under pressure from the four states permitted to hold contests that month, many Democratic candidates have pledged not to campaign in Florida and other states that break party rules.
Barring a compromise, none of Florida's delegates can be seated at next summer's party convention, which means the state Democratic primary will essentially count for nothing. Florida Democrats are calling it a cruel irony, not least because their party has worked doggedly to restore public confidence in the electoral process since 2000.
''The D.N.C. apparently wants us to campaign on the slogan of 'Make sure not a single vote counts,' '' said State Senator Steven A. Geller, the minority leader. Incensed by the sanctions, even though he knew they were possible when he voted in May to change the primary date, Mr. Geller scrapped plans to endorse former Senator John Edwards of North Carolina and is urging against donating to the national committee or to candidates who avoid campaigning here.
At least one major donor, Wayne Hogan of Jacksonville, Fla., called off a fund-raising event he was organizing for the national committee after the vote on Aug. 25. Mr. Hogan, a trial lawyer, said he would contribute to candidates but could no longer stomach helping the committee.
''They're playing into a trap set by the Republican Party,'' Mr. Hogan said. ''It's pretty much that simple.''
Under the rules of both national parties, no state can hold a presidential primary or caucus earlier than Feb. 5 without the party's permission. Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina are the only states that have it. Nonetheless, the Florida Legislature voted in May to schedule primaries for Jan. 29, saying the populous and diverse swing state deserved a more prominent role in choosing presidential nominees.
In recent years, Florida's primaries have taken place in March, by which time the nominee is clear.
The change was pushed through by Republicans, who hold a majority in both houses of the Legislature and will suffer less serious penalties. Under Republican National Committee rules, Florida will lose half its delegates to the Republican convention.
While their party had more to lose, Democratic state lawmakers joined Republicans in voting to move up the primary -- a decision for which some fellow Democrats are now chiding them.
''Florida Is Its Own Worst Enemy'' was the headline on a commentary article by Donna Brazile, a member of the Democratic National Committee's rules and bylaws committee, printed this week in The Miami Herald.
But State Representative Dan Gelber, the minority leader, said Democrats' opposition would not have made a difference. Besides, he said, many of the state's 4.25 million registered Democrats wanted an earlier primary.
''To a certain extent, I feel like I'm in an argument with my spouse,'' Mr. Gelber said of the recent fighting within his party. ''It really is a circular firing squad.''
Some Democrats said they were most worried about the candidates' ability to establish ground operations in Florida if they could not campaign here until February. Losing visits from the candidates, they said, is far more troubling than losing delegates to the convention, which many predict the nominee will seat in the end.
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''It would be a travesty to allow the Republicans to be in full swing, and here we are just trying to get revved up in March or April,'' said Chris Korge, a major fund-raiser here for Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, Democrat of New York. ''We couldn't be in a worse position than where we are right now, where we will not be building excitement over the next five or six months.''
The candidates can still campaign here through Sept. 30, the deadline set by the national committee for Florida Democrats to offer an alternative to the January primary. All seven candidates who signed the pledge are scheduled to participate in a debate at the University of Miami on Sunday, and several have planned events here in coming weeks.
The candidates who signed the pledge are Senators Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware, Christopher J. Dodd of Connecticut and Barack Obama of Illinois; Mrs. Clinton; Mr. Edwards; former Senator Mike Gravel of Alaska; and Gov. Bill Richardson of New Mexico.
After this month, the candidates would be limited to fund-raising events here under an interpretation of the pledge they signed. Some fund-raisers are already envisioning rally-type events that would charge attendees a small fee.
Mark Bubriski, a spokesman for the Florida Democratic Party, said Friday that its leaders had been ''bouncing ideas off'' Democratic lawmakers and local party officials about how to proceed. The ideas include holding a binding caucus or paying for their own vote-by-mail primary after Feb. 5. But the Democrats could also stick to their Jan. 29 date, Mr. Bubriski said.
''We are not pushing or promoting one decision or another,'' Mr. Bubriski said.
State party officials are also trying to persuade Democrats and the news media to avoid using the terms ''beauty contest'' and ''straw poll'' to describe the now-toothless primary set for Jan. 29.
Even if no Florida delegates are seated at the party's convention next summer, Mr. Bubriski said, the primary results will grab national attention.
''Nothing is going to change the fact that the nation will be watching us on the night of Jan. 29,'' he said, ''and the results will have an enormous impact on this race.''
(end of story)
So Tom... who decided to set the date up? and why?
Florida broke the rules.. Florida pays for it.
Florida itself chose to break the rules...
The candidates can still campaign here through Sept. 30, the deadline set by the national committee for Florida Democrats to offer an alternative to the January primary. All seven candidates who signed the pledge are scheduled to participate in a debate at the University of Miami on Sunday, and several have planned events here in coming weeks.
The candidates who signed the pledge are Senators Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware, Christopher J. Dodd of Connecticut and Barack Obama of Illinois; Mrs. Clinton; Mr. Edwards; former Senator Mike Gravel of Alaska; and Gov. Bill Richardson of New Mexico.
After this month, the candidates would be limited to fund-raising events here under an interpretation of the pledge they signed. Some fund-raisers are already envisioning rally-type events that would charge attendees a small fee.
Mark Bubriski, a spokesman for the Florida Democratic Party, said Friday that its leaders had been ''bouncing ideas off'' Democratic lawmakers and local party officials about how to proceed. The ideas include holding a binding caucus or paying for their own vote-by-mail primary after Feb. 5. But the Democrats could also stick to their Jan. 29 date, Mr. Bubriski said.
''We are not pushing or promoting one decision or another,'' Mr. Bubriski said.
State party officials are also trying to persuade Democrats and the news media to avoid using the terms ''beauty contest'' and ''straw poll'' to describe the now-toothless primary set for Jan. 29.
Even if no Florida delegates are seated at the party's convention next summer, Mr. Bubriski said, the primary results will grab national attention.
''Nothing is going to change the fact that the nation will be watching us on the night of Jan. 29,'' he said, ''and the results will have an enormous impact on this race.''
(end of story)
So Tom... who decided to set the date up? and why?
Florida broke the rules.. Florida pays for it.
Florida itself chose to break the rules...
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rasgumby: For tom
New York Times
Forewarned but Angry, Florida Democrats Weigh Primary Penalty
By ABBY GOODNOUGH
Published: September 9, 2007
The anger coursing lately through Democratic circles in Florida feels unlike any since the presidential recount of 2000.
This time, though, the object of wrath is the Democratic National Committee, which voted last month to punish Florida harshly for moving up its presidential primary to January. Under pressure from the four states permitted to hold contests that month, many Democratic candidates have pledged not to campaign in Florida and other states that break party rules.
Barring a compromise, none of Florida's delegates can be seated at next summer's party convention, which means the state Democratic primary will essentially count for nothing. Florida Democrats are calling it a cruel irony, not least because their party has worked doggedly to restore public confidence in the electoral process since 2000.
''The D.N.C. apparently wants us to campaign on the slogan of 'Make sure not a single vote counts,' '' said State Senator Steven A. Geller, the minority leader. Incensed by the sanctions, even though he knew they were possible when he voted in May to change the primary date, Mr. Geller scrapped plans to endorse former Senator John Edwards of North Carolina and is urging against donating to the national committee or to candidates who avoid campaigning here.
At least one major donor, Wayne Hogan of Jacksonville, Fla., called off a fund-raising event he was organizing for the national committee after the vote on Aug. 25. Mr. Hogan, a trial lawyer, said he would contribute to candidates but could no longer stomach helping the committee.
''They're playing into a trap set by the Republican Party,'' Mr. Hogan said. ''It's pretty much that simple.''
Under the rules of both national parties, no state can hold a presidential primary or caucus earlier than Feb. 5 without the party's permission. Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina are the only states that have it. Nonetheless, the Florida Legislature voted in May to schedule primaries for Jan. 29, saying the populous and diverse swing state deserved a more prominent role in choosing presidential nominees.
In recent years, Florida's primaries have taken place in March, by which time the nominee is clear.
The change was pushed through by Republicans, who hold a majority in both houses of the Legislature and will suffer less serious penalties. Under Republican National Committee rules, Florida will lose half its delegates to the Republican convention.
While their party had more to lose, Democratic state lawmakers joined Republicans in voting to move up the primary -- a decision for which some fellow Democrats are now chiding them.
''Florida Is Its Own Worst Enemy'' was the headline on a commentary article by Donna Brazile, a member of the Democratic National Committee's rules and bylaws committee, printed this week in The Miami Herald.
But State Representative Dan Gelber, the minority leader, said Democrats' opposition would not have made a difference. Besides, he said, many of the state's 4.25 million registered Democrats wanted an earlier primary.
''To a certain extent, I feel like I'm in an argument with my spouse,'' Mr. Gelber said of the recent fighting within his party. ''It really is a circular firing squad.''
Some Democrats said they were most worried about the candidates' ability to establish ground operations in Florida if they could not campaign here until February. Losing visits from the candidates, they said, is far more troubling than losing delegates to the convention, which many predict the nominee will seat in the end.
New York Times
Forewarned but Angry, Florida Democrats Weigh Primary Penalty
By ABBY GOODNOUGH
Published: September 9, 2007
The anger coursing lately through Democratic circles in Florida feels unlike any since the presidential recount of 2000.
This time, though, the object of wrath is the Democratic National Committee, which voted last month to punish Florida harshly for moving up its presidential primary to January. Under pressure from the four states permitted to hold contests that month, many Democratic candidates have pledged not to campaign in Florida and other states that break party rules.
Barring a compromise, none of Florida's delegates can be seated at next summer's party convention, which means the state Democratic primary will essentially count for nothing. Florida Democrats are calling it a cruel irony, not least because their party has worked doggedly to restore public confidence in the electoral process since 2000.
''The D.N.C. apparently wants us to campaign on the slogan of 'Make sure not a single vote counts,' '' said State Senator Steven A. Geller, the minority leader. Incensed by the sanctions, even though he knew they were possible when he voted in May to change the primary date, Mr. Geller scrapped plans to endorse former Senator John Edwards of North Carolina and is urging against donating to the national committee or to candidates who avoid campaigning here.
At least one major donor, Wayne Hogan of Jacksonville, Fla., called off a fund-raising event he was organizing for the national committee after the vote on Aug. 25. Mr. Hogan, a trial lawyer, said he would contribute to candidates but could no longer stomach helping the committee.
''They're playing into a trap set by the Republican Party,'' Mr. Hogan said. ''It's pretty much that simple.''
Under the rules of both national parties, no state can hold a presidential primary or caucus earlier than Feb. 5 without the party's permission. Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina are the only states that have it. Nonetheless, the Florida Legislature voted in May to schedule primaries for Jan. 29, saying the populous and diverse swing state deserved a more prominent role in choosing presidential nominees.
In recent years, Florida's primaries have taken place in March, by which time the nominee is clear.
The change was pushed through by Republicans, who hold a majority in both houses of the Legislature and will suffer less serious penalties. Under Republican National Committee rules, Florida will lose half its delegates to the Republican convention.
While their party had more to lose, Democratic state lawmakers joined Republicans in voting to move up the primary -- a decision for which some fellow Democrats are now chiding them.
''Florida Is Its Own Worst Enemy'' was the headline on a commentary article by Donna Brazile, a member of the Democratic National Committee's rules and bylaws committee, printed this week in The Miami Herald.
But State Representative Dan Gelber, the minority leader, said Democrats' opposition would not have made a difference. Besides, he said, many of the state's 4.25 million registered Democrats wanted an earlier primary.
''To a certain extent, I feel like I'm in an argument with my spouse,'' Mr. Gelber said of the recent fighting within his party. ''It really is a circular firing squad.''
Some Democrats said they were most worried about the candidates' ability to establish ground operations in Florida if they could not campaign here until February. Losing visits from the candidates, they said, is far more troubling than losing delegates to the convention, which many predict the nominee will seat in the end.
Interesting that as smart as most democrats are, no one could figure that out?
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rasgumby: ''It would be a travesty to allow the Republicans to be in full swing, and here we are just trying to get revved up in March or April,'' said Chris Korge, a major fund-raiser here for Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, Democrat of New York. ''We couldn't be in a worse position than where we are right now, where we will not be building excitement over the next five or six months.''
The candidates can still campaign here through Sept. 30, the deadline set by the national committee for Florida Democrats to offer an alternative to the January primary. All seven candidates who signed the pledge are scheduled to participate in a debate at the University of Miami on Sunday, and several have planned events here in coming weeks.
The candidates who signed the pledge are Senators Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware, Christopher J. Dodd of Connecticut and Barack Obama of Illinois; Mrs. Clinton; Mr. Edwards; former Senator Mike Gravel of Alaska; and Gov. Bill Richardson of New Mexico.
After this month, the candidates would be limited to fund-raising events here under an interpretation of the pledge they signed. Some fund-raisers are already envisioning rally-type events that would charge attendees a small fee.
Mark Bubriski, a spokesman for the Florida Democratic Party, said Friday that its leaders had been ''bouncing ideas off'' Democratic lawmakers and local party officials about how to proceed. The ideas include holding a binding caucus or paying for their own vote-by-mail primary after Feb. 5. But the Democrats could also stick to their Jan. 29 date, Mr. Bubriski said.
''We are not pushing or promoting one decision or another,'' Mr. Bubriski said.
State party officials are also trying to persuade Democrats and the news media to avoid using the terms ''beauty contest'' and ''straw poll'' to describe the now-toothless primary set for Jan. 29.
Even if no Florida delegates are seated at the party's convention next summer, Mr. Bubriski said, the primary results will grab national attention.
''Nothing is going to change the fact that the nation will be watching us on the night of Jan. 29,'' he said, ''and the results will have an enormous impact on this race.''
(end of story)
So Tom... who decided to set the date up? and why?
Florida broke the rules.. Florida pays for it.
Florida itself chose to break the rules...
The candidates can still campaign here through Sept. 30, the deadline set by the national committee for Florida Democrats to offer an alternative to the January primary. All seven candidates who signed the pledge are scheduled to participate in a debate at the University of Miami on Sunday, and several have planned events here in coming weeks.
The candidates who signed the pledge are Senators Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware, Christopher J. Dodd of Connecticut and Barack Obama of Illinois; Mrs. Clinton; Mr. Edwards; former Senator Mike Gravel of Alaska; and Gov. Bill Richardson of New Mexico.
After this month, the candidates would be limited to fund-raising events here under an interpretation of the pledge they signed. Some fund-raisers are already envisioning rally-type events that would charge attendees a small fee.
Mark Bubriski, a spokesman for the Florida Democratic Party, said Friday that its leaders had been ''bouncing ideas off'' Democratic lawmakers and local party officials about how to proceed. The ideas include holding a binding caucus or paying for their own vote-by-mail primary after Feb. 5. But the Democrats could also stick to their Jan. 29 date, Mr. Bubriski said.
''We are not pushing or promoting one decision or another,'' Mr. Bubriski said.
State party officials are also trying to persuade Democrats and the news media to avoid using the terms ''beauty contest'' and ''straw poll'' to describe the now-toothless primary set for Jan. 29.
Even if no Florida delegates are seated at the party's convention next summer, Mr. Bubriski said, the primary results will grab national attention.
''Nothing is going to change the fact that the nation will be watching us on the night of Jan. 29,'' he said, ''and the results will have an enormous impact on this race.''
(end of story)
So Tom... who decided to set the date up? and why?
Florida broke the rules.. Florida pays for it.
Florida itself chose to break the rules...
Thank you for the fabulous insight Ras!
Can we say like......"There is some thing rotten in the state of florida.....So many beautiful democrats but too many Reagan democrats"
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Indyfella: Interesting that as smart as most democrats are, no one could figure that out?
My humble oponion would be like........
They new very well but still they made a plan out of the strategy called Clinton or McCain.......No Obama because he is.......
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Ken Blackwell - Columnist for the New York Sun
It's an amazing time to be alive in America . We're in
a year of firsts in this presidential election: the first viable woman
candidate; the first viable African-American candidate; and, a candidate
who is the first front-running freedom fighter over 70. The next
president of America will be a first.
We won't truly be in an election of firsts, however, until
we judge every candidate by where they stand. We won't arrive where we should be until we no longer talk about skin color or gender. Now that Barack Obama steps to the front of the Democratic field, we need to stop talking about his race, and start talking about his policies and his politics.
The reality is this: Though the Democrats will not have a
nominee until August, unless Hillary Clinton drops out, Mr. Obama is now the frontrunner, and its time America takes a closer and deeper look at him. Some pundits are calling him the next John F. Kennedy. He's not. He's the next George McGovern. And it's time people learned the facts.
Because the truth is that Mr. Obama is the single most
liberal senator in the entire U.S. Senate. He is more liberal than Ted
Kennedy, Bernie Sanders, or Mrs. Clinton. Never in my life have I
seen a presidential frontrunner whose rhetoric is so far removed from
his record. Walter Mondale promised to raise our taxes, and he lost.
George McGovern promised military weakness, and he lost. Michael Dukakis promised a liberal domestic agenda, and he lost.
Yet Mr. Obama is promising all those things, and he's not
behind in the polls. Why? Because the press has dealt with him as if he
were in a beauty pageant.. Mr. Obama talks about getting past party,
getting past red and blue, to lead the United States of America . But
let's look at the more defined strokes of who he is underneath this
superficial 'beauty.'
Start with national security, since the president's most
important duties are as commander-in-chief. Over the summer, Mr. Obama talked about invading Pakistan, a nation armed with nuclear weapons; meeting without preconditions with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who vows to destroy Israel and create another Holocaust; and Kim Jong II, who is murdering and starving his people, but emphasized that the nuclear option was off the table against terrorists - something no president has ever taken off the table since we created nuclear weapons in the 1940s.
Even Democrats who have worked in national security condemned all of those remarks. Mr. Obama is a foreign-policy novice who would put our national security at risk.
Next, consider economic policy. For all its faults, our health care system is the strongest in the world. And free trade agreements, created by Bill Clinton as well as President Bush, have made more goods more affordable so that even people of modest means can live a life that no one imagined a generation ago. Yet Mr. Obama promises to raise taxes on 'the rich.' How to fix Social Security? Raise taxes. How to fix Medicare? Raise taxes. Prescription drugs? Raise taxes. Free college? Raise taxes. Socialize medicine? Raise taxes. His solution to everything is to have government take it over. Big Brother on steroids, funded by your paycheck.
......
It's an amazing time to be alive in America . We're in
a year of firsts in this presidential election: the first viable woman
candidate; the first viable African-American candidate; and, a candidate
who is the first front-running freedom fighter over 70. The next
president of America will be a first.
We won't truly be in an election of firsts, however, until
we judge every candidate by where they stand. We won't arrive where we should be until we no longer talk about skin color or gender. Now that Barack Obama steps to the front of the Democratic field, we need to stop talking about his race, and start talking about his policies and his politics.
The reality is this: Though the Democrats will not have a
nominee until August, unless Hillary Clinton drops out, Mr. Obama is now the frontrunner, and its time America takes a closer and deeper look at him. Some pundits are calling him the next John F. Kennedy. He's not. He's the next George McGovern. And it's time people learned the facts.
Because the truth is that Mr. Obama is the single most
liberal senator in the entire U.S. Senate. He is more liberal than Ted
Kennedy, Bernie Sanders, or Mrs. Clinton. Never in my life have I
seen a presidential frontrunner whose rhetoric is so far removed from
his record. Walter Mondale promised to raise our taxes, and he lost.
George McGovern promised military weakness, and he lost. Michael Dukakis promised a liberal domestic agenda, and he lost.
Yet Mr. Obama is promising all those things, and he's not
behind in the polls. Why? Because the press has dealt with him as if he
were in a beauty pageant.. Mr. Obama talks about getting past party,
getting past red and blue, to lead the United States of America . But
let's look at the more defined strokes of who he is underneath this
superficial 'beauty.'
Start with national security, since the president's most
important duties are as commander-in-chief. Over the summer, Mr. Obama talked about invading Pakistan, a nation armed with nuclear weapons; meeting without preconditions with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who vows to destroy Israel and create another Holocaust; and Kim Jong II, who is murdering and starving his people, but emphasized that the nuclear option was off the table against terrorists - something no president has ever taken off the table since we created nuclear weapons in the 1940s.
Even Democrats who have worked in national security condemned all of those remarks. Mr. Obama is a foreign-policy novice who would put our national security at risk.
Next, consider economic policy. For all its faults, our health care system is the strongest in the world. And free trade agreements, created by Bill Clinton as well as President Bush, have made more goods more affordable so that even people of modest means can live a life that no one imagined a generation ago. Yet Mr. Obama promises to raise taxes on 'the rich.' How to fix Social Security? Raise taxes. How to fix Medicare? Raise taxes. Prescription drugs? Raise taxes. Free college? Raise taxes. Socialize medicine? Raise taxes. His solution to everything is to have government take it over. Big Brother on steroids, funded by your paycheck.
......
------ This thread is Archived ------
rasgumby:
''They're playing into a trap set by the Republican Party,'' Mr. Hogan said. ''It's pretty much that simple.''
''They're playing into a trap set by the Republican Party,'' Mr. Hogan said. ''It's pretty much that simple.''
Man those Republicans are good
------ This thread is Archived ------
Alfalfa
"Ken Blackwell - Columnist for the New York Sun"
this is a column... one mans views without any backup.. statements of proof from anyone.. nothing... get real.
This is just crap that anyone could write.
"Ken Blackwell - Columnist for the New York Sun"
this is a column... one mans views without any backup.. statements of proof from anyone.. nothing... get real.
This is just crap that anyone could write.
------ This thread is Archived ------
rasgumby: Alfalfa
"Ken Blackwell - Columnist for the New York Sun"
this is a column... one mans views without any backup.. statements of proof from anyone.. nothing... get real.
This is just crap that anyone could write.
"Ken Blackwell - Columnist for the New York Sun"
this is a column... one mans views without any backup.. statements of proof from anyone.. nothing... get real.
This is just crap that anyone could write.
I share the opinion of Ken Blackwell the writer (duh). Is my opinion not allowed? While he does not substantiate much of what he writes, it is all verifiable. I noticed you did substantiate YOUR OPINION that this is "crap" Don't preach why you won't practice.
Is that "real" enough for you or by saying "get real" are you just throwing out some random insult to puff up your recklessly obvious ego trip which I have observed w/o objection until now.
------ This thread is Archived ------
read this
-------------------------------- -----------------------------------
\ /
\ /
''The D.N.C. apparently wants us to campaign on the slogan of 'Make sure not a single vote counts,' '' said State Senator Steven A. Geller
Who is the DNC, Ras? Geller is a Dem here.
This all was written up after the the parties made the request to the
state to change the date.
When I heard that the parties wanted a change in the primary date,
I thought they were crazy to ask for a primary date change on a Presidential election year. Why lose deligate seats? It is nuts.
read this
------------------------- --------------------------------
\ /
Incensed by the sanctions, even though he knew they were possible when he voted in May to change the primary date, Mr. Geller scrapped plans to endorse former Senator John Edwards of North Carolina
Who voted for it in Florida senate and house? Dems did...actually both of them did. Ask a question. Why? Because they thought DNC and RNC would not punish them.
Why were they incensed by the sanctions? Find that answer and you have an answer to what I allude to earlier. They were incensed because they did not think that they would get them.
Would you not run a change of primary date by your National before taking it to the floor for a vote, Ras? Sure you would and they did....both parties....the Nationals gave them tentative 'go ahead, we will not cut your deligates', then both flipped on them.
read this
--------------------------- ------------------------------------
\ /
''They're playing into a trap set by the Republican Party,'' Mr. Hogan said. ''It's pretty much that simple.''
Hogan got this wrong, Ras. They were flipped by their Nationals. In my opinion.
read this
--------------------------- ---------------------------------------
\ /
\ /
But State Representative Dan Gelber, the minority leader, said Democrats' opposition would not have made a difference. Besides, he said, many of the state's 4.25 million registered Democrats wanted an earlier primary.
The Dem voters wanted the change and had pressured the FL DNC for it.
But to really understand this. You got to go back and find out who intiated the motion before it was brought to the floor of Florida Senate and House. I am saying both parties intiated it. Grasping the idea now?
Then got tenetative agreement with the nationals. Floored the motion and voted it in. Then the Nationals flipped on the agreement.
There were some back page new articles prior to this date on where the motion came from. As I remember (it was 20 months ago) it was both parties that motioned it. Just like the votes both supported it. I will dig around and try to find them. I thought it was crazy then, for either party to move the date and lose deligate seats. Simply did not make sense. So why change?
Even in this article Ras, the answer is there. You got to read between the lines some. The DNC and RNC flipped on a earlier unpublic and tentative agreements on this. Fearing they would have a flock of states changing dates and they would lose super Tuesday, after they gave tentative agreements to approving it for Florida.
The question to ask is why did the Nationals approve the tenative agreements? And then flip?
-------------------------------- -----------------------------------
\ /
\ /
''The D.N.C. apparently wants us to campaign on the slogan of 'Make sure not a single vote counts,' '' said State Senator Steven A. Geller
Who is the DNC, Ras? Geller is a Dem here.
This all was written up after the the parties made the request to the
state to change the date.
When I heard that the parties wanted a change in the primary date,
I thought they were crazy to ask for a primary date change on a Presidential election year. Why lose deligate seats? It is nuts.
read this
------------------------- --------------------------------
\ /
Incensed by the sanctions, even though he knew they were possible when he voted in May to change the primary date, Mr. Geller scrapped plans to endorse former Senator John Edwards of North Carolina
Who voted for it in Florida senate and house? Dems did...actually both of them did. Ask a question. Why? Because they thought DNC and RNC would not punish them.
Why were they incensed by the sanctions? Find that answer and you have an answer to what I allude to earlier. They were incensed because they did not think that they would get them.
Would you not run a change of primary date by your National before taking it to the floor for a vote, Ras? Sure you would and they did....both parties....the Nationals gave them tentative 'go ahead, we will not cut your deligates', then both flipped on them.
read this
--------------------------- ------------------------------------
\ /
''They're playing into a trap set by the Republican Party,'' Mr. Hogan said. ''It's pretty much that simple.''
Hogan got this wrong, Ras. They were flipped by their Nationals. In my opinion.
read this
--------------------------- ---------------------------------------
\ /
\ /
But State Representative Dan Gelber, the minority leader, said Democrats' opposition would not have made a difference. Besides, he said, many of the state's 4.25 million registered Democrats wanted an earlier primary.
The Dem voters wanted the change and had pressured the FL DNC for it.
But to really understand this. You got to go back and find out who intiated the motion before it was brought to the floor of Florida Senate and House. I am saying both parties intiated it. Grasping the idea now?
Then got tenetative agreement with the nationals. Floored the motion and voted it in. Then the Nationals flipped on the agreement.
There were some back page new articles prior to this date on where the motion came from. As I remember (it was 20 months ago) it was both parties that motioned it. Just like the votes both supported it. I will dig around and try to find them. I thought it was crazy then, for either party to move the date and lose deligate seats. Simply did not make sense. So why change?
Even in this article Ras, the answer is there. You got to read between the lines some. The DNC and RNC flipped on a earlier unpublic and tentative agreements on this. Fearing they would have a flock of states changing dates and they would lose super Tuesday, after they gave tentative agreements to approving it for Florida.
The question to ask is why did the Nationals approve the tenative agreements? And then flip?
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Great in deed!!!!!!!!
Three hours before the voting is over in Puetrorico!
Hillary suppurters are crying and screaming all over the News!
Pathetic in deed!
Hillary won 62% to 38%. If that is pathetic, what is a tidalwave win?