The War on Religion ( Archived) (30)

Nov 15, 2008 4:34 PM CST The War on Religion
BarrenPneuma
BarrenPneumaBarrenPneumaGolden Staircase, Ontario Canada87 Threads 3 Polls 1,561 Posts
From Rep. Ron Paul, MD

“As we celebrate another Yuletide season, it’s hard not to notice that Christmas in America simply doesn’t feel the same anymore. Although an overwhelming majority of Americans celebrate Christmas, and those who don’t celebrate it overwhelmingly accept and respect our nation’s Christmas traditions, a certain shared public sentiment slowly has disappeared. The Christmas spirit, marked by a wonderful feeling of goodwill among men, is in danger of being lost in the ongoing war against religion.
Through perverse court decisions and years of cultural indoctrination, the elitist, secular Left has managed to convince many in our nation that religion must be driven from public view. The justification is always that someone, somewhere, might possibly be offended or feel uncomfortable living in the midst of a largely Christian society, so all must yield to the fragile sensibilities of the few. The ultimate goal of the anti-religious elites is to transform America into a completely secular nation, a nation that is legally and culturally biased against Christianity.
This growing bias explains why many of our wonderful Christmas traditions have been lost. Christmas pageants and plays, including Handel’s Messiah, have been banned from schools and community halls. Nativity scenes have been ordered removed from town squares, and even criticized as offensive when placed on private church lawns. Office Christmas parties have become taboo, replaced by colourless seasonal parties to ensure no employees feel threatened by a “hostile environment.” Even wholly non-religious decorations featuring Santa Claus, snowmen, and the like have been called into question as Christmas symbols that might cause discomfort. Earlier this month, firemen near Chicago reluctantly removed Christmas decorations from their firehouse after a complaint by some embittered busybody. Most noticeably, however, the once commonplace refrain of “Merry Christmas” has been replaced by the vague, ubiquitous “Happy Holidays.” But what holiday? Is Christmas some kind of secret, a word that cannot be uttered in public? Why have we allowed the secularists to intimidate us into downplaying our most cherished and meaningful Christian celebration?
The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders’ political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs. Certainly the drafters of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, both replete with references to God, would be aghast at the federal government’s hostility to religion. The establishment clause of the First Amendment was simply intended to forbid the creation of an official state church like the Church of England, not to drive religion out of public life.
The Founding Fathers envisioned a robustly Christian yet religiously tolerant America, with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance. Throughout our nation’s history, churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people’s allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation’s Christian heritage. Christmas itself may soon be a casualty of that war.”
Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.

christmas cool
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Nov 15, 2008 4:43 PM CST The War on Religion
druidess6308
druidess6308druidess6308Aliquippa, Pennsylvania USA79 Threads 13,695 Posts
I have to say that as a Pagan I have objected to this as well. Churches have the right to display nativity scenes, though I don't believe that they belong in the town square. I've never objected to being wished a "Merry Christmas", and can even say the words in return...but I have appreciated more the co-workers and friends who are aware that Yule/Solstice is my holiday and wished me either a Happy Yule or a Happy Solstice...and wished them a Merry Christmas in return with more feeling than to those who say that to me instead. (Gosh I hope you followed that wording.)

Our nation's heritage is religious freedom, not Christianity. There are many from all faiths here, and all have the same rights.
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Nov 15, 2008 4:51 PM CST The War on Religion
kidatheart
kidatheartkidatheartFruitvale, British Columbia Canada30 Threads 16,544 Posts
Funny, the Christians stole the holiday, and now whine about others wanting to celebrate their own thing?confused

Is nothing sacred?laugh
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Nov 15, 2008 4:59 PM CST The War on Religion
druidess6308: I have to say that as a Pagan I have objected to this as well. Churches have the right to display nativity scenes, though I don't believe that they belong in the town square. I've never objected to being wished a "Merry Christmas", and can even say the words in return...but I have appreciated more the co-workers and friends who are aware that Yule/Solstice is my holiday and wished me either a Happy Yule or a Happy Solstice...and wished them a Merry Christmas in return with more feeling than to those who say that to me instead. (Gosh I hope you followed that wording.)

Our nation's heritage is religious freedom, not Christianity. There are many from all faiths here, and all have the same rights.
Well,the Yule-Log still has it's name,at least for the time being.conversing wave



But that Tradition is being messed with as well.
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Nov 15, 2008 5:05 PM CST The War on Religion
mindfful
mindffulmindffulChicago, Illinois USA235 Threads 8 Polls 18,996 Posts
nobody wants 'the log' conrad


roll eyes




grin
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Nov 15, 2008 5:05 PM CST The War on Religion
mbcasey
mbcaseymbcaseyNorth Myrtle Beach, South Carolina USA68 Threads 7 Polls 16,449 Posts
santa waving

Ho Ho Ho
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Nov 15, 2008 5:08 PM CST The War on Religion
hollandgirl
hollandgirlhollandgirlSomewhere in Canada. B.C., British Columbia Canada523 Threads 4,464 Posts
christmas cool crying santa waving crying santa waving crying
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Nov 15, 2008 5:10 PM CST The War on Religion
shipoker58
shipoker58shipoker58Las Vegas, Nevada USA30 Threads 2,969 Posts
I am opposed to any organized(sic) religion. Christian, Pagan, moslem,mor any other. Christmas is just a happy time for many, and I don't think there are many that even think about it's religious beginnings. Of course, when talking to the media....everyone claims to be a Christian.

Religious symbols do not belong in any govenment establishment, Period!!
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Nov 15, 2008 5:29 PM CST The War on Religion
omurchu22
omurchu22omurchu22Dundalk, Louth Ireland12 Threads 720 Posts
I am Glad to a organized religion. Christian,. Christmas is just a happy time or many, and I t think there are many that even think about it's religious beginnings. Of course, when talking to the media....everyone claims to be a Christian.But thankfully i respect my Pilgrim Forefathers as its the American way of life which i hold dear to me as a patriot


SHIPBROKER YOUR COMING CLEAN AT LAST
devil
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Nov 15, 2008 5:31 PM CST The War on Religion
Ambrose2007
Ambrose2007Ambrose2007BFE, South Dakota USA67 Threads 10 Polls 8,881 Posts
I'm a big fan of Ron Paul, and I'm surprised by his statement: "The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers...."

The First Amendment forbids the establishment of religion by the federal government. Also, Jefferson wrote: "...I contemplate with solemn reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State..." Last time I checked, he's considered to be a "founding father."

There is some wiggle room in interpreting Paul's use of such phrases as "rigid separation," but there certainly is ample reason to understand the US Constitution as forbidding the USG from promoting any religion through use of public authority or monies. Any branch or agency of the USG, accordingly, should not be permitted to promote or impose religion on individuals.
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Nov 15, 2008 5:40 PM CST The War on Religion
littlewolf
littlewolflittlewolfnunya, Oklahoma USA10 Threads 526 Posts
shipoker58: I am opposed to any organized(sic) religion. Christian, Pagan, moslem,mor any other. Christmas is just a happy time for many, and I don't think there are many that even think about it's religious beginnings. Of course, when talking to the media....everyone claims to be a Christian.

Religious symbols do not belong in any govenment establishment, Period!!
thumbs up Most Christians teach their children there is a Santa Claus.Ive always wondered what little children, that didnt get presents, thought they had done.Thats lying to your kids.Most Christians dont know that Christmas has absolutely nothing to do with Christ, which in truth is a pagan holiday.We dont know when Christ was born.Its amazing how people have gotten all this mess together down through the centuries.My family celebrates Christmas for what it is,Just another Holiday and u get to give and get gifts. handshake
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Nov 15, 2008 5:43 PM CST The War on Religion
Indyfella
IndyfellaIndyfellaindianapolis, Indiana USA152 Threads 8 Polls 18,150 Posts
Ambrose2007: I'm a big fan of Ron Paul, and I'm surprised by his statement: "The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers...."

The First Amendment forbids the establishment of religion by the federal government. Also, Jefferson wrote: "...I contemplate with solemn reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State..." Last time I checked, he's considered to be a "founding father."

There is some wiggle room in interpreting Paul's use of such phrases as "rigid separation," but there certainly is ample reason to understand the US Constitution as forbidding the USG from promoting any religion through use of public authority or monies. Any branch or agency of the USG, accordingly, should not be permitted to promote or impose religion on individuals.



I think the keyword could be "impose". If I saw jewish symbols at a courthouse, I wouldn't be offended.
And...I'm certainly not jewish.
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Nov 15, 2008 5:48 PM CST The War on Religion
shipoker58
shipoker58shipoker58Las Vegas, Nevada USA30 Threads 2,969 Posts
Ron Paul is a coward and nothing he has to say is relevant.....JMO, of course
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Nov 15, 2008 5:59 PM CST The War on Religion
omurchu22
omurchu22omurchu22Dundalk, Louth Ireland12 Threads 720 Posts
littlewolf: Most Christians teach their children there is a Santa Claus.Ive always wondered what little children, that didnt get presents, thought they had done.Thats lying to your kids.Most Christians dont know that Christmas has absolutely nothing to do with Christ, which in truth is a pagan holiday.We dont know when Christ was born.Its amazing how people have gotten all this mess together down through the centuries.My family celebrates Christmas for what it is,Just another Holiday and u get to give and get gifts.


rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing Bless you rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing

Urmmm Christ has a mass Its something that Christ...ians do go to mass dunno

and whenever his birthday was...December.....jan feb march april they go to MASS to celebrate his BIRTHDAY and they called it CHRISTMASS..now known as CHRISTMAS



The presents giving are celebrated as the three wise men ...the Spanish probally do it better than anyone else as they were occupied by a non Christian power (MUSLIMS) for hundreds of years and dont give presents until the 5th Night of Jan...when the 3 wise men would of arrived

Like so many Christian Holidays ..Atheists have undermined them by starting Christmas shopping earlier and earlier ...to stimulate business....Nothing to do with Christ doh
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Nov 15, 2008 6:08 PM CST The War on Religion
druidess6308
druidess6308druidess6308Aliquippa, Pennsylvania USA79 Threads 13,695 Posts
shipoker58: I am opposed to any organized(sic) religion. Christian, Pagan, moslem,mor any other. Christmas is just a happy time for many, and I don't think there are many that even think about it's religious beginnings. Of course, when talking to the media....everyone claims to be a Christian.

Religious symbols do not belong in any govenment establishment, Period!!


Ummm...Paganism is not an organized religion by any stretch of the imagination. Just thought that deserved to be corrected. There is no dogma, and so many different paths because each individual has slightly different beliefs and practices. Even Wicca is not totally organized, and though there are covens within it, all of those are still separate. Finding one's own beliefs and respect for those of others is encouraged...that's not organized religion, where one is supposed to believe the same as the masses.

Sorry, Ship...I don't belong to an organized religion, nor believe in organized religion either. Beliefs should belong to the individual, not be spoon-fed.

hug
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Nov 15, 2008 6:15 PM CST The War on Religion
hollandgirl
hollandgirlhollandgirlSomewhere in Canada. B.C., British Columbia Canada523 Threads 4,464 Posts
omurchu22: Bless you

Urmmm Christ has a mass Its something that Christ...ians do go to mass

and whenever his birthday was...December.....jan feb march april they go to MASS to celebrate his BIRTHDAY and they called it CHRISTMASS..now known as CHRISTMAS
The presents giving are celebrated as the three wise men ...the Spanish probally do it better than anyone else as they were occupied by a non Christian power (MUSLIMS) for hundreds of years and dont give presents until the 5th Night of Jan...when the 3 wise men would of arrived

Like so many Christian Holidays ..Atheists have undermined them by starting Christmas shopping earlier and earlier ...to stimulate business....Nothing to do with Christ


Jesus was born sometime in the spring.
Were does anyone read in the Bible about three wise men?
It is not there, this notion comes simply because three gifts are mentioned.
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Nov 15, 2008 6:16 PM CST The War on Religion
Galactic_bodhi
Galactic_bodhiGalactic_bodhiAkron, Ohio USA609 Threads 1 Polls 9,196 Posts
druidess6308: Ummm...Paganism is not an organized religion by any stretch of the imagination. Just thought that deserved to be corrected. There is no dogma, and so many different paths because each individual has slightly different beliefs and practices. Even Wicca is not totally organized, and though there are covens within it, all of those are still separate. Finding one's own beliefs and respect for those of others is encouraged...that's not organized religion, where one is supposed to believe the same as the masses.

Sorry, Ship...I don't belong to an organized religion, nor believe in organized religion either. Beliefs should belong to the individual, not be spoon-fed.


The only organized principle underlying paganism is animism, that every aspect(god/goddess) principle of reality has a discrete female/male dualistic soul/spirit. Other than that I would have to agree.
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Nov 15, 2008 6:18 PM CST The War on Religion
littlewolf
littlewolflittlewolfnunya, Oklahoma USA10 Threads 526 Posts
omurchu22: Bless you

Urmmm Christ has a mass Its something that Christ...ians do go to mass

and whenever his birthday was...December.....jan feb march april they go to MASS to celebrate his BIRTHDAY and they called it CHRISTMASS..now known as CHRISTMAS
The presents giving are celebrated as the three wise men ...the Spanish probally do it better than anyone else as they were occupied by a non Christian power (MUSLIMS) for hundreds of years and dont give presents until the 5th Night of Jan...when the 3 wise men would of arrived

Like so many Christian Holidays ..Atheists have undermined them by starting Christmas shopping earlier and earlier ...to stimulate business....Nothing to do with Christ
Yes I do know all of that.You are talking about Catholic mass.I am not Catholic I am christian.Protestant.handshake
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Nov 15, 2008 6:20 PM CST The War on Religion
omurchu22
omurchu22omurchu22Dundalk, Louth Ireland12 Threads 720 Posts
druidess6308: Ummm...Paganism is not an organized religion by any stretch of the imagination. Just thought that deserved to be corrected. There is no dogma, and so many different paths because each individual has slightly different beliefs and practices. Even Wicca is not totally organized, and though there are covens within it, all of those are still separate. Finding one's own beliefs and respect for those of others is encouraged...that's not organized religion, where one is supposed to believe the same as the masses.

Sorry, Ship...I don't belong to an organized religion, nor believe in organized religion either. Beliefs should belong to the individual, not be spoon-fed.



tongue tongue Whats Summer solstice and winter ..thingy and other dates in the calender that you may celebrate as a Witch......... Warlock........... Druid (all spelt with capital letters to show respect by the way)

You know an ORGANISED day...........

Typical Druids Here in Eireann built these little caves long before the pyramids and stuff just to celebrate a light from the sun once a year at a certain time on a certain day

you know ORGANISED for their FAITH/RELIGION dunno
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Nov 15, 2008 6:22 PM CST The War on Religion
littlewolf
littlewolflittlewolfnunya, Oklahoma USA10 Threads 526 Posts
hollandgirl: Jesus was born sometime in the spring.
Were does anyone read in the Bible about three wise men?
It is not there, this notion comes simply because three gifts are mentioned.
Matt.cpt 2 verse 1,speaks of wise men from the east who came to Jeruslem .ur right it doesnt say 3.handshake
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