Should burning your country's flag be illegal?. (96)
TonyIsAChampion: Which of the statements below do you agree with or do you have a different opinion?
1: A flag is only a piece of decorated material that most people have been brainwashed into giving thier lives for.
War and killing is usually for profit (and not for those who actually fight or are killed) but for those in power.
or
2: A flag is a symbol of your home, and gives nations an identity which should be loved and respected. It is something to defend if necessary with your life and the lives of your family.
or
3: I am not against war as long as I don't have to fight it or die in it.
1: A flag is only a piece of decorated material that most people have been brainwashed into giving thier lives for.
War and killing is usually for profit (and not for those who actually fight or are killed) but for those in power.
or
2: A flag is a symbol of your home, and gives nations an identity which should be loved and respected. It is something to defend if necessary with your life and the lives of your family.
or
3: I am not against war as long as I don't have to fight it or die in it.
depends...
which country, you are trying to make a statement against...
democratic or dictatorship
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bubbles2012: depends...
which country, you are trying to make a statement against...
democratic or dictatorship
which country, you are trying to make a statement against...
democratic or dictatorship
You mean that there is a difference?
A son said to his father " Dad I want a career in organized crime" to which his father replied "Government or the private sector?"
And in answer to your question, I am not making a statement against any country. Only against those who brainwash the soldiers of their country to die in wars, while they stay safe, and wave a flag. They are called Politicians.
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Ok I see where you are coming from -
I was referring to freedom ...
I was referring to freedom ...
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bubbles2012: Ok I see where you are coming from -
I was referring to freedom ...
I was referring to freedom ...
Oh I see, you mean we are really free? Free to decide where our taxes are spent? Free to choose how our children are indoctrinated, free to choose who our soldiers should kill next, free to allow greedy bankers and corporations to rob us (legally), free to hate exactly who the politicians tell us to. Free to kill and maim anyone who disagrees with our politics because we have been told to believe that our way of life is the only truly free one. Yes we are free.
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A country wich makes it illegal to burn the flag is a dictatorship.
There should be no nations and no borders.
Is there any free country in this world?
NO!
There should be no nations and no borders.
Is there any free country in this world?
NO!
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SorayaNoor: A country wich makes it illegal to burn the flag is a dictatorship.
There should be no nations and no borders.
Is there any free country in this world?
NO!
There should be no nations and no borders.
Is there any free country in this world?
NO!
If as some people say "That the world will end as we know it" either by natural or manmade (financial) disaster, your wish may come true sooner than you think.
I only hope that if it does happen, that the survivors will learn from our mistakes. :)
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In a month, the London Olympic games begin. Each country will present its flag in the open ceremonies. Then will have a flags flown over the winners of the events.
I don't see any killing in a event like the Olympics. No soldier taking the castle or hill. No impressed mass that is fearful of a military.
I do see.....a real terrorist target and a real anarchist target in the summer games. Were to make some inane ideological statement...they place 100s at risk. All because many they hate some of the flags that are at the summer games.
I don't see any killing in a event like the Olympics. No soldier taking the castle or hill. No impressed mass that is fearful of a military.
I do see.....a real terrorist target and a real anarchist target in the summer games. Were to make some inane ideological statement...they place 100s at risk. All because many they hate some of the flags that are at the summer games.
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Interesting poll - and the second choice that the flag is a symbol - I do believe that which is why some choose to use the symbol to express their opinion and feelings about something that is going on in their country (assuming that the freedom to express their opinion is allowed) or in the case of other countries expressing their displeasure at another country - by burning the flag -
It is a symbol of expression both negative and positive - in my opinion
It is a symbol of expression both negative and positive - in my opinion
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TonyIsAChampion: Which of the statements below do you agree with or do you have a different opinion?
1: A flag is only a piece of decorated material that most people have been brainwashed into giving thier lives for.
War and killing is usually for profit (and not for those who actually fight or are killed) but for those in power.
or
2: A flag is a symbol of your home, and gives nations an identity which should be loved and respected. It is something to defend if necessary with your life and the lives of your family.
or
3: I am not against war as long as I don't have to fight it or die in it.
The flags represent the heart of our countries.1: A flag is only a piece of decorated material that most people have been brainwashed into giving thier lives for.
War and killing is usually for profit (and not for those who actually fight or are killed) but for those in power.
or
2: A flag is a symbol of your home, and gives nations an identity which should be loved and respected. It is something to defend if necessary with your life and the lives of your family.
or
3: I am not against war as long as I don't have to fight it or die in it.
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TonyIsAChampion: Oh I see, you mean we are really free? Free to decide where our taxes are spent? Free to choose how our children are indoctrinated, free to choose who our soldiers should kill next, free to allow greedy bankers and corporations to rob us (legally), free to hate exactly who the politicians tell us to. Free to kill and maim anyone who disagrees with our politics because we have been told to believe that our way of life is the only truly free one. Yes we are free.
I would like to address some of the points you are trying to make:
You are using the word "we" referring to Portugal. Each country has their own set of laws.
In America, the military draft ended a long time ago. Our men and women are FREE to join if they want to. When they talk to a recruiter it is explained what joining the military can do for them financially. The recruiter does not convince them it is a good thing to kill anyone. People join the military for their own private reasons.
The USA flag is a symbol of the country that I love, not a symbol of the government. Loving country and loving government are two different things. I love my country but right now I don't have many warm feelings about my government.
Millions of people hate the U.S. but we don't kill those who hate us or disagree with our policies. One thing you can be sure of is that we, the United States of America, won't back down from those who attack us physically.
Freedom doesn't mean you can run rampant and do whatever you want. Freedom means I can use my voice to express an opinion; I can go to whatever church I want; I can work wherever I want; I can slander the President; burn the flag. In some countries the people are forced to work a certain place for a certain amount of money. They even force their children to work.
Even though the U.S. is in a recession and unemployment is high, Americans still have a good way of life. Ask any illegal immigrant why they sneak over the border to come to America.
What Does Free Speech Mean?
The First Amendment protects freedom of speech. The U.S. Supreme Court often has struggled to determine what exactly constitutes protected speech. The following are examples of speech, both direct (words) and symbolic (actions), that the Court has decided are either entitled to First Amendment protections, or not.
The First Amendment states, in relevant part, that:
“Congress shall make no law...abridging freedom of speech.”
Freedom of speech includes the right:
Not to speak (specifically, the right not to salute the flag).
West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943).
Of students to wear black armbands to school to protest a war (“Students do not shed their constitutional rights at the schoolhouse gate.”).Tinker v. Des Moines, 393 U.S. 503 (1969).
To use certain offensive words and phrases to convey political messages. Cohen v. California, 403 U.S. 15 (1971).
To contribute money (under certain circumstances) to political campaigns. Buckley v. Valeo, 424 U.S. 1 (1976).
To advertise commercial products and professional services (with some restrictions). Virginia Board of Pharmacy v. Virginia Consumer Council, 425 U.S. 748 (1976); Bates v. State Bar of Arizona, 433 U.S. 350 (1977).
To engage in symbolic speech, e.g., burning the flag in protest.
Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397 (1989); United States v. Eichman, 496 U.S. 310 (1990).
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Back in 2005 Eric Cantor, yes THAT Eric Cantor, sponsored a bill to make flag desecration illegal in the US, meaning anybody found guilty of burning or maliciously damaging the American flag would be subject to arrest and if convicted, face imprisonment. I always found it ironic that probably 95% of the flags people display so proudly and love so deeply were probably manufactured in China or Thailand or some other 3rd world country. In other words, an American citizen could be charged with a felony and thrown in jail for damaging a product made in China. You could almost hear the Chinese laughing at us. Fortunately the bill failed, but by only ONE vote!
Burn the flag, don't burn my rights or my freedoms!
Burn the flag, don't burn my rights or my freedoms!
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ooby_dooby: Back in 2005 Eric Cantor, yes THAT Eric Cantor, sponsored a bill to make flag desecration illegal in the US, meaning anybody found guilty of burning or maliciously damaging the American flag would be subject to arrest and if convicted, face imprisonment. I always found it ironic that probably 95% of the flags people display so proudly and love so deeply were probably manufactured in China or Thailand or some other 3rd world country. In other words, an American citizen could be charged with a felony and thrown in jail for damaging a product made in China. You could almost hear the Chinese laughing at us. Fortunately the bill failed, but by only ONE vote!
Burn the flag, don't burn my rights or my freedoms!
OobyBurn the flag, don't burn my rights or my freedoms!
yeah i hear Chinese are laughing
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montemonte: I would like to address some of the points you are trying to make:
You are using the word "we" referring to Portugal. Each country has their own set of laws.
In America, the military draft ended a long time ago. Our men and women are FREE to join if they want to. When they talk to a recruiter it is explained what joining the military can do for them financially. The recruiter does not convince them it is a good thing to kill anyone. People join the military for their own private reasons.
The USA flag is a symbol of the country that I love, not a symbol of the government. Loving country and loving government are two different things. I love my country but right now I don't have many warm feelings about my government.
Millions of people hate the U.S. but we don't kill those who hate us or disagree with our policies. One thing you can be sure of is that we, the United States of America, won't back down from those who attack us physically.
Freedom doesn't mean you can run rampant and do whatever you want. Freedom means I can use my voice to express an opinion; I can go to whatever church I want; I can work wherever I want; I can slander the President; burn the flag. In some countries the people are forced to work a certain place for a certain amount of money. They even force their children to work.
Even though the U.S. is in a recession and unemployment is high, Americans still have a good way of life. Ask any illegal immigrant why they sneak over the border to come to America.
What Does Free Speech Mean?
The First Amendment protects freedom of speech. The U.S. Supreme Court often has struggled to determine what exactly constitutes protected speech. The following are examples of speech, both direct (words) and symbolic (actions), that the Court has decided are either entitled to First Amendment protections, or not.
The First Amendment states, in relevant part, that:
“Congress shall make no law...abridging freedom of speech.”
Freedom of speech includes the right:
Not to speak (specifically, the right not to salute the flag).
West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943).
Of students to wear black armbands to school to protest a war (“Students do not shed their constitutional rights at the schoolhouse gate.”).Tinker v. Des Moines, 393 U.S. 503 (1969).
To use certain offensive words and phrases to convey political messages. Cohen v. California, 403 U.S. 15 (1971).
To contribute money (under certain circumstances) to political campaigns. Buckley v. Valeo, 424 U.S. 1 (1976).
To advertise commercial products and professional services (with some restrictions). Virginia Board of Pharmacy v. Virginia Consumer Council, 425 U.S. 748 (1976); Bates v. State Bar of Arizona, 433 U.S. 350 (1977).
To engage in symbolic speech, e.g., burning the flag in protest.
Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397 (1989); United States v. Eichman, 496 U.S. 310 (1990).
You are using the word "we" referring to Portugal. Each country has their own set of laws.
In America, the military draft ended a long time ago. Our men and women are FREE to join if they want to. When they talk to a recruiter it is explained what joining the military can do for them financially. The recruiter does not convince them it is a good thing to kill anyone. People join the military for their own private reasons.
The USA flag is a symbol of the country that I love, not a symbol of the government. Loving country and loving government are two different things. I love my country but right now I don't have many warm feelings about my government.
Millions of people hate the U.S. but we don't kill those who hate us or disagree with our policies. One thing you can be sure of is that we, the United States of America, won't back down from those who attack us physically.
Freedom doesn't mean you can run rampant and do whatever you want. Freedom means I can use my voice to express an opinion; I can go to whatever church I want; I can work wherever I want; I can slander the President; burn the flag. In some countries the people are forced to work a certain place for a certain amount of money. They even force their children to work.
Even though the U.S. is in a recession and unemployment is high, Americans still have a good way of life. Ask any illegal immigrant why they sneak over the border to come to America.
What Does Free Speech Mean?
The First Amendment protects freedom of speech. The U.S. Supreme Court often has struggled to determine what exactly constitutes protected speech. The following are examples of speech, both direct (words) and symbolic (actions), that the Court has decided are either entitled to First Amendment protections, or not.
The First Amendment states, in relevant part, that:
“Congress shall make no law...abridging freedom of speech.”
Freedom of speech includes the right:
Not to speak (specifically, the right not to salute the flag).
West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943).
Of students to wear black armbands to school to protest a war (“Students do not shed their constitutional rights at the schoolhouse gate.”).Tinker v. Des Moines, 393 U.S. 503 (1969).
To use certain offensive words and phrases to convey political messages. Cohen v. California, 403 U.S. 15 (1971).
To contribute money (under certain circumstances) to political campaigns. Buckley v. Valeo, 424 U.S. 1 (1976).
To advertise commercial products and professional services (with some restrictions). Virginia Board of Pharmacy v. Virginia Consumer Council, 425 U.S. 748 (1976); Bates v. State Bar of Arizona, 433 U.S. 350 (1977).
To engage in symbolic speech, e.g., burning the flag in protest.
Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397 (1989); United States v. Eichman, 496 U.S. 310 (1990).
good post Monte, correct. freedom is not the right to do whatever you want whenever. as in "your freedoms end where mine begin." freedom can only exist in atmosphere that respects the civil liberty of all members. that is why in the US we have a rule of law.
I really think people who have not lived in a democracy similar to that in the US have a very difficult time understanding civil liberties, what they are and why they are important.
As far as flag burning - I think it does disrespect the country (not the government) and in the US our country and our government are distinct separate entities.
I don't really care if burning the flag is illegal or not, but it is not something that I am going to do
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This is one of those threads where never the twain shall meet. Each side is fixed in their position. The Bob Dylan song "God on their side" comes to mind where he ponders how history will record these conflicts. The basic question he asks was who writes the history books, the winners. So in any conflict who is right, the winners - You don't hear much about the role of NATIVE americans in US history.
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DaveD20: This is one of those threads where never the twain shall meet. Each side is fixed in their position. The Bob Dylan song "God on their side" comes to mind where he ponders how history will record these conflicts. The basic question he asks was who writes the history books, the winners. So in any conflict who is right, the winners - You don't hear much about the role of NATIVE americans in US history.
That's because you're right reading the right books. I know Native American history because I am fifth generation Cherokee..
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montemonte: Your post is an example of the freedom that you enjoy. If you were under Communist rule or lived in a country where Alcada dictated what you can say you wouldn't be able to post such an opinion.
Isn't it great to be free to say what's on your mind...
Isn't it great to be free to say what's on your mind...
Indeed
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Fair enough point about the availability of books on the topics but my point was the way mainstream history will portray the events. All societies are guilty of glossing over the past where they may not have behaved so well.
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TonyIsAChampion: Which of the statements below do you agree with or do you have a different opinion?
1: A flag is only a piece of decorated material that most people have been brainwashed into giving thier lives for.
War and killing is usually for profit (and not for those who actually fight or are killed) but for those in power.
or
2: A flag is a symbol of your home, and gives nations an identity which should be loved and respected. It is something to defend if necessary with your life and the lives of your family.
or
3: I am not against war as long as I don't have to fight it or die in it.
1: A flag is only a piece of decorated material that most people have been brainwashed into giving thier lives for.
War and killing is usually for profit (and not for those who actually fight or are killed) but for those in power.
or
2: A flag is a symbol of your home, and gives nations an identity which should be loved and respected. It is something to defend if necessary with your life and the lives of your family.
or
3: I am not against war as long as I don't have to fight it or die in it.
I really don`t see the point in burning your own flag ,but then again, I don`t see why it should be punishable ...
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I agree - I couldn't care less if I saw someone burning the flag - I would just think someone has too much time on their hands - I live in a country where people have killed each other over whether a british union jack or a irish tri colour flies on a house - So excuse me , if I consider that there a lot more important things in life than a piece of cloth.
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EagleWoman:
After her front lawn was torn up in a sewer repair, an Oak Park Michigan woman decided that rather than re-plant grass and shrubs, she’d convert the yard to five raised beds for growing vegetables. Neighbors complained to the city and now Julie Bass is facing possible jail time for violations of city code, even though the zoning code itself is so vaguely worded that it may be difficult to prove that Bass is operating outside the law.
OMG, I have the same neighbors...
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montemonte: Your post is an example of the freedom that you enjoy. If you were under Communist rule or lived in a country where Alcada dictated what you can say you wouldn't be able to post such an opinion.
Isn't it great to be free to say what's on your mind...
Isn't it great to be free to say what's on your mind...
You are absolutely right, I do have the freedom to say what is on my mind.
But that does not give me the right to attack or kill someone who does not believe that freedom of speech is right, who does believe that freedom of speech is harmful.
In other words I do not have the freedom to impose my beliefs on others by force.
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Boban1: After her front lawn was torn up in a sewer repair, an Oak Park Michigan woman decided that rather than re-plant grass and shrubs, she’d convert the yard to five raised beds for growing vegetables. Neighbors complained to the city and now Julie Bass is facing possible jail time for violations of city code, even though the zoning code itself is so vaguely worded that it may be difficult to prove that Bass is operating outside the law.
OMG, I have the same neighbors...
OMG, I have the same neighbors...
Yeah!!! But did YOUR plants have beautiful slim finely chiselled elongated leaves ... And were they getting high from the aroma that drifted into their home from the buds?
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TonyIsAChampion: You are absolutely right, I do have the freedom to say what is on my mind.
But that does not give me the right to attack or kill someone who does not believe that freedom of speech is right, who does believe that freedom of speech is harmful.
In other words I do not have the freedom to impose my beliefs on others by force.
But that does not give me the right to attack or kill someone who does not believe that freedom of speech is right, who does believe that freedom of speech is harmful.
In other words I do not have the freedom to impose my beliefs on others by force.
Sorry please excuse the error.The last line should read
"In other words I do not have the right, to impose my beliefs on others by force."
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TonyIsAChampion: You are absolutely right, I do have the freedom to say what is on my mind.
But that does not give me the right to attack or kill someone who does not believe that freedom of speech is right, who does believe that freedom of speech is harmful.
In other words I do not have the freedom to impose my beliefs on others by force.
But that does not give me the right to attack or kill someone who does not believe that freedom of speech is right, who does believe that freedom of speech is harmful.
In other words I do not have the freedom to impose my beliefs on others by force.
Do you want to have the freedoms that you say you don't have?
"I do not have the freedom to impose my beliefs on others by force." That statement is vague so I don't know how to respond to it.
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I think its as big a deal as peeps make of it, nothing more, nothing less
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yes it should be illegal and require jail time. because it is so treasonous
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EagleWoman: Yeah!!! But did YOUR plants have beautiful slim finely chiselled elongated leaves ... And were they getting high from the aroma that drifted into their home from the buds?
My aunts cat has Gloucoma...
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TonyIsAChampion: Sorry please excuse the error.The last line should read
"In other words I do not have the right, to impose my beliefs on others by force."
"In other words I do not have the right, to impose my beliefs on others by force."
Okay, one word can make a big difference and you are right.
Neither do I have the right to impose on someone else what I believe and I wouldn't want that "right". But I will join in a discussion on a subject but I would never think of forcing what I believe on someone else. This very discussion that you and I are having is a debate of opinions about freedom. You have yours and I have mine. Both of us are adults who know how to have a discussion without being condescending, disrespectful or rude and that is a breath of fresh air on CS.
I understand my freedoms and that's what makes it work for me.
It appears that you understand what you think you don't have and want it to change. The thing that confuses me is, the freedoms that you say you don't have in my opinion aren't positive for you or your country. Think back to a few posts back where you list the things you say you can't do. Does that mean you wish you could have those rights?
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Created: Jun 2012
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Should burning your country's flag be illegal?.(Vote Below)
1: A flag is only a piece of decorated material that most people have been brainwashed into giving thier lives for.
War and killing is usually for profit (and not for those who actually fight or are killed) but for those in power.
or
2: A flag is a symbol of your home, and gives nations an identity which should be loved and respected. It is something to defend if necessary with your life and the lives of your family.
or
3: I am not against war as long as I don't have to fight it or die in it.