It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?. (311)

Jun 29, 2013 2:40 PM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
stringman
stringmanstringmanwallaceburg, Ontario Canada649 Threads 1 Polls 7,049 Posts
Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.
George Washington
Jun 29, 2013 3:17 PM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
Waterbearer63: Yes. Too many people have died needlessly.


As in, driving while under the influence of alcohol...?
Overdosed on illegal drugs...?
Killed by terrists...?
Deceased by wild animals...?
Stabbed to death during an armed robbery...?
Victimized by natural disasters...?
Defending a nation...?

And lastly,
Die needlessly for defending my rights...?
Jun 29, 2013 3:25 PM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
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devil devil devil
Jul 3, 2013 6:23 PM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
Ken_19
Ken_19Ken_19Winchester, Virginia USA68 Threads 26 Polls 1,055 Posts
As soon as we get a law allowing manufacturers to be sued for how what they make is misused, we can go after automobile makers for helping the drunks.
Jul 3, 2013 6:24 PM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
Ken_19
Ken_19Ken_19Winchester, Virginia USA68 Threads 26 Polls 1,055 Posts
Also we can sue those evil computer makers because all drones and satellites use computers to kill folks. Sue everyone!
Jul 3, 2013 6:31 PM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
virgosingle
virgosinglevirgosinglegreymouth, West Coast New Zealand10 Threads 347 Posts
well I think its all wrong for people to " bear arms " those poor bears
Jul 3, 2013 6:47 PM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
PJ1961
PJ1961PJ1961Somewhere..., Nicaragua19 Threads 2 Polls 905 Posts
virgosingle: well I think its all wrong for people to " bear arms " those poor bears
peace
Jul 3, 2013 8:26 PM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
Conrad73: still doesn't change a thing on the Right to Own and Bear Arms!

Native to the lands of my ancestors, bought and owned by treaties, borrowers and traders, it's my honor to bear arms and my responsibility to the people and the land of my bloodline.
Jul 3, 2013 8:46 PM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
funxsinia
funxsiniafunxsiniaButtholeville, Iowa USA9 Threads 2 Polls 328 Posts
RayfromUSA: It's not just a law. It's an article of the Bill of Rights, the most important part of the US constitution. Without which the people would not have accepted the constitution at all.

It's not about hunting.
It's about having the means to fight back against tyranny.
And tyranny loves the idea of disarming the people.


thumbs up

It's a right that we are entrusted with. As a responsible gun owner I fully support the right to bear arms...also as a responsible gun owner I expect my government to enforce the gun laws that we already have (which they do a very poor job of)...not to be a bunch of knee jerk reactionaries every time there is a tragedy involving firearms.
Seriously what good does it do to pass more laws that will never be enforced? It's interesting that the cities (i.e. Chicago, New York, Washington D.C.) with the toughest gun laws always seem to be the cities with the highest rate of gun crimes...maybe the criminals know their victims can't shoot back?
Jul 4, 2013 12:22 PM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
CmdrMercutio
CmdrMercutioCmdrMercutioRickmansworth, UK, Hertfordshire, England UK2 Threads 139 Posts
May already have been said.. but I thought the actual wording was "the right to bear arms as part of a well-regulated militia" thus implying that it was intended to be about state troops not private arms

Although as with any law the truth is in how its regulated - and its come to be taken differently.
Jul 4, 2013 12:44 PM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
galrads
galradsgalradsDublin, Ohio USA2,264 Threads 279 Polls 36,283 Posts
CmdrMercutio: May already have been said.. but I thought the actual wording was "the right to bear arms as part of a well-regulated militia" thus implying that it was intended to be about state troops not private arms

Although as with any law the truth is in how its regulated - and its come to be taken differently.


With all due respect, you have no Idea what you are talking about. First of all, "well-regulated" meant something different a couple of centuries ago.

It is not today's definition of “controlled,” “limited,” or “restricted” but was instead defined as “having proper kit and provisions” or in the case of objects or machinery, “properly maintained and kept in good repair." However, I hope you realize that the definition for an individual hasn't changed since then.


wave
Jul 4, 2013 12:56 PM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
Ken_19
Ken_19Ken_19Winchester, Virginia USA68 Threads 26 Polls 1,055 Posts
Ken_19: snipped. Typo sorry.

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms, a well regulated militia, shall not be infringed."
<Got distracted by someone here while typing, sorry.>
Jul 4, 2013 1:41 PM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
Seventy-two killed resisting gun confiscation in Boston

BOSTON
National guard units seeking to confiscate a cache of recently banned assault weapons were ambus...hed on April 19th by elements of a Para-military extremist faction. Military and law enforcement sources estimate that 72 were killed and more than 200 injured before government forces were compelled to withdraw.

Speaking after the clash, Massachusetts Governor Thomas Gage declared that the extremist faction, which was made up of local citizens, has links to the radical right-wing tax protest movement. Gage blamed the extremists for recent incidents of vandalism directed against internal revenue offices. The governor, who described the group's organizers as "criminals," issued an executive order authorizing the summary arrest of any individual who has interfered with the government's efforts to secure law and order. The military raid on the extremist arsenal followed wide-spread refusal by the local citizenry to turn over recently outlawed assault weapons.

Gage issued a ban on military-style assault weapons and ammunition earlier in the week. This decision followed a meeting in early this month between government and military leaders at which the governor authorized the forcible confiscation of illegal arms.

One government official, speaking on condition of anonymity, pointed out that "none of these people would have been killed had the extremists obeyed the law and turned over their weapons voluntarily." Government troops initially succeeded in confiscating a large supply of outlawed weapons and ammunition. However, troops attempting to seize arms and ammunition in Lexington met with resistance from heavily-armed extremists who had been tipped off regarding the government's plans. During a tense standoff in Lexington 's town park, National Guard Colonel Francis Smith, commander of the government operation, ordered the armed group to surrender and return to their homes. The impasse was broken by a single shot, which was reportedly fired by one of the right-wing extremists. Eight civilians were killed in the ensuing exchange.

Ironically, the local citizenry blamed government forces rather than the extremists for the civilian deaths. Before order could be restored, armed citizens from surrounding areas had descended upon the guard units.

Colonel Smith, finding his forces over matched by the armed mob, ordered a retreat.

Governor Gage has called upon citizens to support the state/national joint task force in its effort to restore law and order. The governor also demanded the surrender of those responsible for planning and leading the attack against the government troops.











































Samuel Adams, Paul Revere, and John Hancock, who have been identified as "ringleaders" of the extremist faction, remain at large.

. . . And this, people, is how the American Revolution began .

April 20, 1775
Jul 4, 2013 1:43 PM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
“As a textual matter, the Second Amendment does speak of the idea of a “well regulated” militia, phrasing which seems to at least concede the idea that the government could assert the authority to assert some conditions upon gun ownership by individual citizens.”

Wrong.

The term “well-regulated”, in the lexicon of the late 1700s, meant “functioning properly, functioning as expected”, not the dictionary definition we have today. Today, the term means “tightly controlled”, and is at odds with the “shall not be infringed” phrase found in the amendment. So no, textually the Second Amendment does NOT allow government to place conditions on gun ownership, as the Second Amendment is WITHOUT conditions in it’s explicit prohibition.

Jul 4, 2013 2:04 PM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
galrads
galradsgalradsDublin, Ohio USA2,264 Threads 279 Polls 36,283 Posts
Conrad73: “As a textual matter, the Second Amendment does speak of the idea of a “well regulated” militia, phrasing which seems to at least concede the idea that the government could assert the authority to assert some conditions upon gun ownership by individual citizens.”

Wrong.

The term “well-regulated”, in the lexicon of the late 1700s, meant “functioning properly, functioning as expected”, not the dictionary definition we have today. Today, the term means “tightly controlled”, and is at odds with the “shall not be infringed” phrase found in the amendment. So no, textually the Second Amendment does NOT allow government to place conditions on gun ownership, as the Second Amendment is WITHOUT conditions in it’s explicit prohibition.



handshake I believe you said it better than I was trying to in post 44 of this thread.
Jul 4, 2013 2:35 PM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
SparkyAgain: The biggest difference between those who support the 2nd amendment and those who don't is that those who support it would never try to make those who don't buy or keep weapons. In contrast, those who don't like weapons want to invoke their values on those that do by "banning" certain aspects. It's rather stupid for an unarmed anti gun advocate to screw with an armed persons weapons or any of their rights provided under the constitution. I believe our forefathers knew this which is why we have the 2nd amendment and why the NRA or any of its members will never allow anyone to screw with our right to own weapons.


This view is completely missing the point. The issue is a societal one and does not boil down to whether a single individual has a right to bear arms. Of course the pro weapon lobby will say that they as individuals they never shot anyone and they're all responsible people. That may be true. But the fact remains that in a society where "the right to bear arms" is enshrined in law, there are far more gun related violent deaths. I wouldn't expect everyone who has the right to own semi automatic guns to go out and kill 26 children, but some will do that. If there were no guns in society then no one would get shot.
Jul 4, 2013 2:55 PM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
Forcedhand: This view is completely missing the point. The issue is a societal one and does not boil down to whether a single individual has a right to bear arms. Of course the pro weapon lobby will say that they as individuals they never shot anyone and they're all responsible people. That may be true. But the fact remains that in a society where "the right to bear arms" is enshrined in law, there are far more gun related violent deaths. I wouldn't expect everyone who has the right to own semi automatic guns to go out and kill 26 children, but some will do that. If there were no guns in society then no one would get shot.


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yep,If My Auntie...........................

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devil

Jul 4, 2013 3:53 PM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
A nation with guns may not have any armies fighting in it.
If the common person has the right to protect themselves from injustice,
let us protect ourselves.
You may take my money (taxes) but you will not take my gun (rights of all Americans)
jmho!
Jul 4, 2013 4:07 PM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
NAKEDMUDPEOPLE: A nation with guns may not have any armies fighting in it.
If the common person has the right to protect themselves from injustice,
let us protect ourselves.
You may take my money (taxes) but you will not take my gun (rights of all Americans)
jmho!
thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up
Jul 4, 2013 4:09 PM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
A gun in the hands of a free man frightens and angers the autocrat, not because he fears the power of the gun, but, rather, the spirit of the man who holds it.

ANONYMOUS
Jul 4, 2013 4:48 PM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
Ken_19
Ken_19Ken_19Winchester, Virginia USA68 Threads 26 Polls 1,055 Posts
Forcedhand: snip
is enshrined in law, there are far more gun related violent deaths. I wouldn't expect everyone who has the right to own semi automatic guns to go out and kill 26 children, but some will do that. If there were no guns in society then no one would get shot.

Yeah right. He'd have to get some nail polish remover and some peroxide and blow up buses instead. That is if he didn't pull a Guy Fawkes with some GP. Or a Tokyo type subway incident with some home made Sarin (or was it Sabin?). Point is if you think focusing on a single implement (whose basic design dates back to the 1300s with everything since then simply improvements) is the way to render crazy psychos impotent, then you are being very delusional.

27? I am dancing around in my words to avoid putting ways much, much larger numbers than the incident mentioned could be achieved by a dedicated psycho if he had no gun.

A common problem with this debate (no doubt similar to that experienced by old time sailors who knew the earth was round, but dared not mention it to land loving Catholic priests who had decided their scripture proved the earth was flat) is one side which never experienced the really darker side of life is that side has no clue, and everything the other side says, just sails by overhead and unheard. Yes, avoidance of violence is preferable. That option however is every now and then the only solution to a problem you may not otherwise survive.

Yes, I personally know a woman who 20 years ago decided for religious reasons to not kill an attacker when she had a chance and instead he stabbed her son, had his way with her, then slit her throat, then had his way with her young daughter. Amazingly (as sometimes happens when amateurs are doing the slitting and stabbing) all 3 survived and the attacker went to jail (NY). Now 20 years later he will be getting out soon and she lives in terror (as does the very screwed up daughter) due to a combination of societal failures (which you alluded to and a sweetheart plea bargain deal which cleared a prosecutor's table and a belief then killing was evil). Her son has never really forgiven her and will have no hesitation on pulling a trigger on his own (legal) gun when the attacker comes back as he has told friends he intends to do. You would disarm them and run and hide. To me they have an individual right to do what will probably need doing. Also I am with the son's belief. Mom screwed up big time by turning the other cheek at precisely the wrong moment to the wrong guy and a whole family paid for it and has paid for it every moment since.
Jul 4, 2013 6:17 PM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
I could make a few points about your response here. I understand every part of "shall not be infringed". Are you presenting that to me as some sort of commandment handed down from the Gods? What part of "free speech" do you not understand? I don't agree with the gun laws in the US! Have a look at the statistics presented here,


Maybe you could put your cartoons away for a while and face reality? There seems to be a slight bias in gun related deaths in the Americas when compared to the rest of the world, wouldn't you agree?

Regarding banning rocks, do you think it's possible for some lunatic to murder 26 pre school children by throwing stones at them? They're hardly comparable to semi automatic weapons, are they?
Jul 4, 2013 6:25 PM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
Have a look at the statistics,



America has 10.3 gun related deaths per 100,000 per annum compared to Israel which has 0.94 per 100,000 per annum.

Believe it or not, guns are banned in Israel and I picked that country because you probably feel it's in a state of constant war!

My argument was to separate individual experiences and look at societal effects.
Jul 5, 2013 2:32 AM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
Forcedhand: I could make a few points about your response here. I understand every part of "shall not be infringed". Are you presenting that to me as some sort of commandment handed down from the Gods? What part of "free speech" do you not understand? I don't agree with the gun laws in the US! Have a look at the statistics presented here,


Maybe you could put your cartoons away for a while and face reality? There seems to be a slight bias in gun related deaths in the Americas when compared to the rest of the world, wouldn't you agree?

Regarding banning rocks, do you think it's possible for some lunatic to murder 26 pre school children by throwing stones at them? They're hardly comparable to semi automatic weapons, are they?
why are you so hung up on semi-automatic?
Most Rifles and Shotguns today are just that!
Really doesn't make much difference!
Except for introducing an invalid factor into the Argument,besides,what are you worrying about in Ireland!
The US won't compel you to on and bear arms!

And it,The Right to Arms is an extension of the Right to self-Defense,and it guaranties the Freedom of Speech!
But the whole thing is moot,you Europeans do just not understand the Concept of RIGHTS.
Jul 5, 2013 2:35 AM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
“As a textual matter, the Second Amendment does speak of the idea of a “well regulated” militia, phrasing which seems to at least concede the idea that the government could assert the authority to assert some conditions upon gun ownership by individual citizens.”

Wrong.

The term “well-regulated”, in the lexicon of the late 1700s, meant “functioning properly, functioning as expected”, not the dictionary definition we have today. Today, the term means “tightly controlled”, and is at odds with the “shall not be infringed” phrase found in the amendment. So no, textually the Second Amendment does NOT allow government to place conditions on gun ownership, as the Second Amendment is WITHOUT conditions in it’s explicit prohibition.

Jul 5, 2013 2:38 AM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
Forcedhand: I could make a few points about your response here. I understand every part of "shall not be infringed". Are you presenting that to me as some sort of commandment handed down from the Gods? What part of "free speech" do you not understand? I don't agree with the gun laws in the US! Have a look at the statistics presented here,


Maybe you could put your cartoons away for a while and face reality? There seems to be a slight bias in gun related deaths in the Americas when compared to the rest of the world, wouldn't you agree?

Regarding banning rocks, do you think it's possible for some lunatic to murder 26 pre school children by throwing stones at them? They're hardly comparable to semi automatic weapons, are they?
GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Jul 5, 2013 3:35 AM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
Conrad73: why are you so hung up on semi-automatic?
Most Rifles and Shotguns today are just that!
Really doesn't make much difference!
Except for introducing an invalid factor into the Argument,besides,what are you worrying about in Ireland!
The US won't compel you to on and bear arms!

And it,The Right to Arms is an extension of the Right to self-Defense,and it guaranties the Freedom of Speech!
But the whole thing is moot,you Europeans do just not understand the Concept of RIGHTS.


Well since you Americans are so committed to the concept of rights, why don't you extend that concept to other nations? Why don't you let Iraq, North Korea and Cuba bear arms in the form of nuclear weapons? They're really only bigger guns, aren't they? (Unless you want to introduce an "invalid factor"?)

However, I think the reason is that you don't want the world's lunatics getting their hands on weapons that they may use against you. The same philosophy should be applied to guns, there is no shortage of lunatics around!

Face reality and look at the statistics. Which is more important your right to bear arms or the lives of US citizens?
Jul 5, 2013 4:07 AM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
Forcedhand: Well since you Americans are so committed to the concept of rights, why don't you extend that concept to other nations? Why don't you let Iraq, North Korea and Cuba bear arms in the form of nuclear weapons? They're really only bigger guns, aren't they? (Unless you want to introduce an "invalid factor"?)

However, I think the reason is that you don't want the world's lunatics getting their hands on weapons that they may use against you. The same philosophy should be applied to guns, there is no shortage of lunatics around!

Face reality and look at the statistics. Which is more important your right to bear arms or the lives of US citizens?
your argument doesn't make sense!
We are simply talking about the Individual's Right to self-defense!
The Right to bear Arms,guarantied under the Constitution!
All you are doing is obfuscating the Issue!
Jul 5, 2013 4:22 AM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.


Guns used overwhelmingly for defense, make carriers safer
Obama orders CDC gun violence study, study shreds his position

Earlier this year, President Obama signed a set of executive orders targeting gun violence in the wake of the Sandy Hook shootings. Among them was an edict commanding the CDC to do a comprehensive survey of studies regarding guns and gun violence in the United States. Clearly, once the CDC produced the hard evidence that the US was a violent nation of wild-west shootouts, the American people would be eager to approve and fund future research while embracing strict gun control legislation.

At least that was the plan. The study, which was compiled by the Institute of Medicine and National Research Council under the CDC’s direction, was recently completed and released. The anti-gun crowd has been awfully quiet about it. Could it be that it didn’t support their bogus hypothesis?

In a word, Yes. The CDC’s numbers basically back every pro-gun rights argument made over the course of the last year.

First and foremost, the majority of annual gun-related deaths are due to suicide, not crime.

The study finds that “Between the years 2000-2010 firearm-related suicides significantly outnumbered homicides for all age groups, annually accounting for 61 percent of the more than 335,600 people who died from firearms related violence in the United States.”

While this is still a depressing statistic, it supports gun-rights advocates’ claims that the country has a mental health problem, not a gun owner problem. In fact, the study found that those who own guns, carry them, and fight back against criminals are actually fare better in dangerous situations.

The report notes that virtually all studies which “assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns” found the same thing. There are “consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies.”

But self-defense with a firearm is incredibly uncommon. After all, that’s what the lefties are always telling us, so it must be true. Right?

Wrong.

The CDC report finds that “Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence.” In fact, while exact statistics are hard to come by, the report indicates that “Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year, in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.”

So, there’s as much as a 10 to 1 ratio of defensive firearm use vs. offensive use, though admittedly the 3 million figure is probably a bit high.

On the downside, the study does indicate that we have the most firearm related deaths of any wealthy western nation, but - contrary to what the left would like you to believe - those numbers are declining. Things are getting better, not worse.

recommendations.
Jul 5, 2013 4:25 AM CST It`s every Americans right to bear arms. Do you think this law should be repealed or not?.
The report indicates that “Overall crime rates have declined in the past decade, and violent crimes, including homicides specifically, have declined in the past 5 years.” However, “Between 2005 and 2010, the percentage of firearm-related violent victimizations remained generally stable.”

According to the report, “firearm-related death rates for youth ages 15 to 19 declined from 1994 to 2009,” while the number of accidental shootings declined as well. The report states that “Unintentional firearm-related deaths have steadily declined during the past century. The number of unintentional deaths due to firearm-related incidents accounted for less than 1 percent of all unintentional fatalities in 2010.”

We all know the United States has too much crime, and yes, too much gun violence. No one is arguing that we need to work to bring those numbers down. However, expanded gun control has never been the answer. The report recommends further research on a variety of topics, among them the effects of gun safety tech, videogame violence, and alcohol availability on gun crime. Still, with all of the above data in mind, we wouldn’t expect to see Obama and Biden waving their study around. It simply does too much damage to many of their specious claims.


Enforce the Laws that are on the Book now,instead of creating new Kneejerk-Laws at every turn!

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