Yeshua's death on the cross means faithfulness unto death. He was not alone in the first century who were faithful to death, many of the apostles ended the same was as the mimicked the faithful life of their Master.
We all have this call, you remember, unless we take up our cross and follow him we are not worthy of him. So did his disciples.
John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, ‘I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.’”
Yeshua is saying the Father is his God and that he is one of them with his disciples. Consider this in the light of
John 17:3(NASB) 3 This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
He is not God. He is God's sent one.
Now on to the gospel:
Mark 1: 14 Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”
Acts 14:15 and saying, “Men, why are you doing these things? We are also men of the same nature as you, and preach the gospel to you that you should turn from these vain things to a living God, WHO MADE THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH AND THE SEA AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM.
Romans 1:1 "Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God"
1 Peter 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
There is only one gospel, and that has been preached by everyone from John the Baptiser to Yeshua and the disciples.
The cross was an additional message:
Romans 16: 25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospeland the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past
Corporate guilt: While you are certainly responsible for your own sins, the sins of your leaders brought devastation upon you also. This was the case in 70 AD. This is corporate guilt leading to corporate punishment. The cross of Jesus was preached to both Jews and Greeks because they had to make a stand.
Jesus could not die for anyone's sins. Human sacrifices are not acceptable. He could not fulfil the law by breaking it. He was the Passover lamb, which is a covenant sacrifice, not a sin sacrifice. The removal of sin is an outcome, not a magic bullet.
Luke 22: 7 Then came the first day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. 8 And Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and prepare the Passover for us, so that we may eat it.” 9 They said to Him, “Where do You want us to prepare it?” 10 And He said to them, “When you have entered the city, a man will meet you carrying a pitcher of water; follow him into the house that he enters. 11 And you shall say to the owner of the house, ‘The Teacher says to you, “Where is the guest room in which I may eat the Passover with My disciples?”’ 12 And he will show you a large, furnished upper room; prepare it there.” 13 And they left and found everything just as He had told them; and they prepared the Passover.
Why do you think I made any reference to this story? Yeshua didn't change the Passover, he observed it.
An age often ends with judgment. When John the Baptiser and Yeshua preached "Repent for the Kingdom of God was near" it was a frightening message to the Jews, for the Kingdom came with judgment. This is what you had to be saved from, hence the extensive usage of "saved" in the NT.
The RSV/NRSV footnotes, when translating "Jesus died for our sins" add the alternative reading "because of". It means corporate guilt, as in ancient times people suffered for the sins of their leaders (so do we). So when the Jewish religious leaders collaborated with the Romans to kill Yeshua, they became guilty of killing the innocent man. Therefore, both the Jews and Greeks had to make a choice whether they identified with their leaders (agreed with the crime) or repented from it. This is why Jesus was preached to them on top of the gospel of the Kingdom.
When Peter preaches at Pentecost and reminds his Jewish audience to Joel's prophecy regarding the end times, ending his message with the killing of Jesus, whom God raised (confirming that the leaders were wrong about him), the audience is frightened to death.
The SDA started off as an Unitarian movement, but later on turned trinitarian. Yes, they observe some of the laws, just as the JWs. Trinitarians observe a new set of laws.
No, I meant the Hellenised Jesus abolished the Torah with its days and seasons and festivals. Instead of observing the Sabbath Christians observed the Sunday. Then they observed the Easter instead of the Passover as well as Christmas, which was also a Pagan holiday.
Paul met with his disciples on the first day of the week, which was Saturday night after 6. This is why, when he teaches for a long time, a guy falls asleep and falls through the window to his death. They could not possibly met on Sunday because in the Roman Empire it was another work day.
I think you misunderstood what I wrote. Yes, he did say that, yet, Christianity claims that he only meant it until Pentecost, when the age/dispensation of Law ended and the age/dispensation of grace started. And since they are no longer under the law, but under grace they don't need to keep any of it.
My position is that Yeshua ben Josef fulfilled (fully kept) the Torah and all his followers also need to "walk as he himself also walked", that is, they have to mimic his faithful life.
His Jewish followers observed the Torah, and were so zealous that they even named themselves "The Way" which is a synonym for Torah living. Gentile converts were required to observe the Noahide laws (as reflected by the ruling of the Jerusalem Council), as well as any additional laws required by the local leadership (due to local conditions), and were encouraged (but not required) to observe as much of the Torah as they could.
Gentile converts, according to the Jerusalem Council, were not required to convert to Judaism for salvation, though conversion was certainly possible. In the Kingdom the Jewish people will be the priestly nation (hence they come under different laws than others).
No, The Antichrist is the Hellenised version of Jesus, the virgin-born divine god-man saviour, who is almost indistinguishable from the sons of Apollo (see Justin Martyr).
He fulfilled the law so that nobody else has to, thereby abrogated it, changed the times and seasons, so his followers don't have to keep the Jewish days and festivals, and claimed equality with God, by sitting in the Temple of God and claiming to be God.
1Tim. 4 talks about another kind of knowledge that crept into the churches. Do you deny that the Greek Church fulfilled that prophecy?
I am interested in the knowledge of Yeshua ben Josef and his disciples that got Hellenised by the Greeks.
"Revealer" is only a nickname which I picked on another dating site because suddenly nothing else came into my mind. I made no claims for the other titles, so why do you put words into my mind?
No, these are not. John didn't write these words. You better upgrade your bible. Textual scholars today hold the second part of this verse spurious. I would not use it as a proof text. Even Erasmus omitted it from his text.
And he prayed that his disciples should be one just as he is one with the Father. Unity of purpose.
Did you missed John 17:3? Where Jesus declared the Father to be the only true God?
You couldn't call someone a "rabbi" ("teacher") unless he was really a teacher:
John 3: 1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; 2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher...
So was he a Rabbi or not? Nothing to do with "honorific salutation". You had to be a teacher to be called a "Rabbi".
Did you miss my reply to you when I quoted Paul regarding who those are that adopt the doctrines of demons?
The Pharisees were hypocritical:
Matthew 23:23 “ Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.
This is not the same as having the doctrines of demons. Their doctrine was derived from the Tanakh. Why are you trying to misrepresent the teachings of the Pharisees?
Christians are mistaken that the "gospel" is Jesus dying for sins. That is not the gospel. There is one gospel, and that is about the nearness of the Kingdom of God:
Genesis 3:19 By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return.”
Daniel 12:2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.
Once you die you are dead. To dust you return and figuratively you "sleep", that is, unconscious.
It is in the resurrection when you wake up from this sleep.
Those Jewish writings in the period 500 BC–50 AD are Jewish prophetical writing where the antichrist-like figure will fight with the Messiah.
Yes, he is the ugliest antichrist I have seen. And the silliest idea. The British Israel is wrong. Period. The lost 10 tribes of Israel are the Hungarians
Maybe there is some knowledge that did not originate with the Nicaean fathers
I certainly didn't invent it.
First of all, I don't intend to be a leader. Secondly, what I posted is - though incompatible with trinitarian doctrine - is the result of many years of study. I was once an evangelical and studied theology full time in a bible college, but then realised that trinitarian theology was wrong. So I know both sides of the story.
Book, chapter verse?
1 Timothy 4: 1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, 3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.
This has been fulfilled by the Greek Church, not by the Jews? Why are you trying to pretend those religious Jews were following doctrines of devils? Yeshua himself was a Jewish Rabbi. He taught a version of Judaism, just as Paul and all the other apostles, that the Greeks hijacked and Hellenised later on.
revealer24 Forum Posts (985)
This is too hard for my little brain...
Has the Antichrist come?
Yeshua's death on the cross means faithfulness unto death. He was not alone in the first century who were faithful to death, many of the apostles ended the same was as the mimicked the faithful life of their Master.We all have this call, you remember, unless we take up our cross and follow him we are not worthy of him. So did his disciples.
John 20:17
Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, ‘I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.’”
Yeshua is saying the Father is his God and that he is one of them with his disciples. Consider this in the light of
John 17:3(NASB)
3 This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
He is not God. He is God's sent one.
Now on to the gospel:
Mark 1:
14 Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God,
15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”
Acts 14:15 and saying, “Men, why are you doing these things? We are also men of the same nature as you, and preach the gospel to you that you should turn from these vain things to a living God, WHO MADE THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH AND THE SEA AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM.
Romans 1:1 "Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God"
1 Peter 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
There is only one gospel, and that has been preached by everyone from John the Baptiser to Yeshua and the disciples.
The cross was an additional message:
Romans 16:
25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past
Corporate guilt: While you are certainly responsible for your own sins, the sins of your leaders brought devastation upon you also. This was the case in 70 AD. This is corporate guilt leading to corporate punishment. The cross of Jesus was preached to both Jews and Greeks because they had to make a stand.
Jesus could not die for anyone's sins. Human sacrifices are not acceptable. He could not fulfil the law by breaking it. He was the Passover lamb, which is a covenant sacrifice, not a sin sacrifice. The removal of sin is an outcome, not a magic bullet.