All About The Niqab

This is documentary is about the veil worn by women of the Muslim faith...not too long ago this woman called N.S. was asked to remove the niqab in court...even the Prime Minister became involved...does she have the right to practice face covering here in Canada when it comes to court proceeding and citizenship?...is this really about feminism...ensuring that women are equal and not subservient...or is it more about being fearful of Muslims since ISIS made its presence known...here is this young woman's perspective on it and the battle in court for her to continue wearing her niqab...
What are your thoughts?...


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Comments (72)

Jaq, you are absolutely correct. On both counts. We have many ski mask and stocking mask robberies and home invasions, and with the assent and support of the voters in those places the reaction to being caught while masked is extremist. Those who aren't comfortable, they let their feet do their voting and move to places more tolerant of those who are masked.
You are very naive if you think that they have a choice. I saw a woman beaten for removing her scarf.

Like a lot of women, they will tell you it's their choice when they are dominated by their men. You should take it with a pinch of salt.

And as for looking elegant. Try telling that to their men. They basically want to see their women covered up. Some even have their eyes covered.

It will change and the sooner the better. It could be very damaging for the young girls who are forced to wear it and at the same time be expected to be part of a modern society.

Don't get me started! I know quite a lot about this stuff.

frustrated very mad
rain
Did you watch the video?...she is standing up because of principle...hardly sounds like a meek person...who is beaten at home by her husband or controlled...if that were true...I would think the husband wouldn't want her to take her relatives to court...or allow her to speak and to be filmed by the journalists at the Fifth Estate...JMO...
There was a recent case in Montreal, where 2 foriegn university students were planning to go overseas to fight with Isis. Authorities stepped in and took care of the situation. When the authorities stepped into the dorm where the 2 students lived, All the other foreign students were hiding their faces,confused . They didn t do anything wrong,but they HAD TOO HIDE THIER FACES. Were they ashamed of something.Could someone explain this to me.
1to1

I don't know about the recent events but will check it out...were all the women wearing niqab?...
1to1
Will have to get more details...not sure what it is about...
Loulou the woman I spoke of was in a very public place in fact a classroom. She was dragged by her hair down stairs and literally thrown into a taxi.
Jac

That was exactly my point.
It is not clothing, it's a screen.
I am coming in very late here but think it has been a very interesting topic of discussion. Some excellent points made by various bloggers too.

For me personally as I watched the video I felt this lady was honest and open about her dress standard. That she was just standing up to something that was personal to her. Like she said she does it for God, not for man. I can truly relate to that. She sounds a lovely lovely person with her ideals of how she live.To me there is nothing wrong with that. She also comes a strong woman.

As long as I can see someones eyes I am ok. I believe the eyes are the windows to the soul. You can`t have any untoward feelings and it not show in your eyes.

I am all for freedom in how someone lives their religion or believes as long as it does not violate another person. As in harm them in any way.

Do we not all have dress standards one way or another? I know I do. Things I would and would not wear. I also believe in modesty of dress. I am grateful nobody takes away my right to dress how I choose.

I agree with so many comments on here of who have worded things waaaaay better than I.

Good blog Lou.

Hope you have had a great day, celebrating being a woman .. on this Mothers day.teddybear teddybear
I am coming in very late here but think it has been a very interesting topic of discussion. Some excellent points made by various bloggers too.

For me personally as I watched the video I felt this lady was honest and open about her dress standard. That she was just standing up to something that was personal to her. Like she said she does it for God, not for man. I can truly relate to that. She sounds a lovely lovely person with her ideals of how she live.To me there is nothing wrong with that. She also comes a strong woman.

As long as I can see someones eyes I am ok. I believe the eyes are the windows to the soul. You can`t have any untoward feelings and it not show in your eyes.

I am all for freedom in how someone lives their religion or believes as long as it does not violate another person. As in harm them in any way.

Do we not all have dress standards one way or another? I know I do. Things I would and would not wear. I also believe in modesty of dress. I am grateful nobody takes away my right to dress how I choose.

I agree with so many comments on here of who have worded things waaaaay better than I.

Good blog Lou.

Hope you have had a great day, celebrating being a woman .. on this Mothers day.teddybear teddybear
wallops
Thanks for your comment...she comes across as a strong minded person...no shrinking violet!!...it is kind of a backward standard to have in regards to the conduct of women in the courts...one minute women are judged by how much makeup or lack of clothing women have on...then in the next breath...refuse to hear a case due to women donning too much clothing on...

I know that hats and sunglasses are not permitted as a standard rule in courts of law but what about the turbans the Sikhs have?...we are so culturally diverse...we need to bend a little to accommodate people...

Thanks for the warm wishes and have a Good Mother's day to you!!wine
That's a good point about Sikh's wearing a turban.
jac
I was wondering if that was ever an issue in the court room?...may check it out...wine
Times changed and some laws and customs went away. When I was a boy we were taught a gentleman ALWAYS removes his hat entering a building, with the exception being uniformed civil service workers (police, fire, ambulance, etc) and soldiers wearing helmets. In a city owned building such as a hospital or a library that was the actual law and you should call the police if you saw someone wearing a hat. I think I was 6 back then. We also had classes for the boys on bowing and how to seat a lady at dinner and curtsying for the girls. Thing I am seeing is the veil is not in all Muslim countries. It is a sect thing. But here supposedly we have someone in a country where it is not required, attempting to introduce it into Canadian law.
It was an issue here when it became mandatory to wear a motorcycle helmet. As Sikh men couldn't get one on over their turbans, they were exempt, but I think they may only ride up to a certain size of engine to limit the risk of head injury should they have an accident.

I doubt very much there has ever been an issue about wearing religious head dress in court here in the UK. It may be something to do with Sikhs having a lot of respect in the British Indian Army, or it may be that the courts are a little less petty and more respectful.

As for wearing the niqab in a British court, I found this which was interesting:



I read another report which talked of women being required to unveil their faces when giving evidence, but from behind a screen so only the jurors and court officials could see their face. The screen would ensure discretion from the public gallery and reporters.
ken
That was another world back then...I didn't see that kind of good manners growing up...and some of our customs are no longer relevant...but I think coming up with a compromise as you said would have been better than the harsh stance the courts took...

We should be able to challenge our government...and demand change if needed...laws need to be changed to reflect today's environment...
jac
Thanks for the information...it is better to find a solution than to make people feel that they don't belong...or assume she doesn't belong here because of her ethnicity...she is Canadian!!...glad to hear others are accommodating to these women...will look at the link provided... wine
This is another opinion about the niqab debate...

Yes, this issue of the Niqab is a good smokescreen for the bigger issues Mr.Murphy mentioned, but it concerns me that there's maybe more to it than that, certainly here in the UK.

What if it's a smokescreen for less obvious, more secretive political action? What if it's used to garner support for war crimes, such as the ones the former UK Prime Minister Tony Blair has been alleged to be involved with, but not prosecuted for? What if it's ultimately about power, wealth and control and once again women are being used as pawns in the game?

If we collectively learn to hate and depersonalise groups of people, it's then not difficult to get people to support their destruction and death. Surely, the objectification of others is exactly the behaviour of an extremist.

Is it any different insisting that women don't wear the Niqab than it is insisting they do? It's still about removing their right to self-determination, free will and choice.

thumbs up
jac
Read the news article you posted...that women on trial for intimidating a security guard who refused to take off her niqab...fortunately someone listened to the guard although it wasn't pursued at first...and oddly it seems that her connection to her husband's crime wasn't apparent during her trial with her brother...correct me if I got it wrong...it seems it was on purpose...the issue of the niqab was used as a smoke screen?...
I think you're interpreting from your own value framework Rain, without considering NS's own culture.
If I had been through the same then shut myself away it would be said that I needed therapy.

By continuing to wear the veil NS is playing that same game that started all the problems. ie her relatives' culture.

If she broke away from her veil she may feel liberated instead of subservient.

I'm afraid that I don't see this the way others are.

I know people in her situation and I think it's interesting that she hesitated when asked whether she wished her daughter to wear a veil.

I say again that it will change and the sooner the better. Woman hiding this way are playing the game and are oppressed.

I'd like to see her walk tall. I see her wearing the veil as a confirmation that she SHOULD be hiding. By her own admission, she goes both ways depending on how exposed she's feeling.



sad flower

She may well benefit from counselling after her childhood experiences. Wearing the veil may be a copying strategy for her in some way. That's her journey and she should have control over it, not anyone else.


I don't understand what you mean here, Rain. Could you explain, please?


How do you know she feels subservient. That wasn't the message she was portraying when interviewed, unless you mean her comment about bowing down to no one, no man and only bowing down to god.


I get some of what you're saying, but I do think it's important to work from her value framework rather than try to impose our own. She's entitled to make her own choices and not have anything imposed upon her from anyone.


What do you find interesting about that?


It may well change in time, but it's oppressive to decide for someone else, whatever the decision.


The standard dress code in my house (my daughter, granddaughter and myself) is T-shirt and knickers. We don't feel exposed in our own home, but we cover up to go outside the home. We wouldn't expose ourselves like that in public. Is that so very different?
Jac

Of course it must be in her own time but what was the fascination about this story that we should discuss it?

A woman who can be filmed and interviewed in such a way is no shrinking violet.

What went on in her case is common in her culture so it's a shame that she hasn't rejected the veil which I feel would have made more of a point.

I'm definitely not getting your stance on this and we will have to agree to differ.

handshake
rain
This story didn't have to become so public...but the court failed to come up with a solution or compromise and failed to treat her with respect...she has the right to question practices that maybe too old to uphold...such as the dress code in the courts...
rain/jac

Thanks for all of your input...it is amazing what evokes such strong feelings towards others' practices and customs...

The niqab may not be worn in all of the Muslim practicing countries...perhaps certain sects...does it matter why she wears it or should it be seen as a right?...dress codes serve a function but allowances should be made to embrace cultural differences...

Thanks again for contributing...wine
Another view of the debate..

Embedded image from another site
Hello Lou. A very interesting blog and your questions are all legitimate that begs legitimate answers.

I am a little bit late on the discussion but I just want to address all your original questions.

After listening to her personal account I believe that as a citizen living in a country like Canada which tolerates religious freedom she is free to practice what she wants and in fact she does her job very professionally dressed in her cultural or religious practice.

Now on the legal part of the court, regardless of her practice and freedom she, as everyone else has to abide and respect the law. When the judge demands for her to take it off is not because of her denial of her cultural and or feminism. It is a law that applies to all.

Now whatever is the reason for them to wear it is not the issue more than the clash of culture on a country they have so chosen to embrace.

But for the woman in question, she seems very comfortable being who she is and wear it regardless of how the others perceive her.

Now on the post of Zman, what an encumbrance but they are proud to be who they are and so be it.

I have a feeling it will change though. In my birth country the Philippines, our way of dress in the traditional way is celebrated with pride and value but it has evolved due to practical purposes. On fiestas and celebrations, there is still a glimpse of how it was.

Almost all Filipinos around the world that I have seen hardly has a clue anymore as to how our old way of dressing look like.

Respect to how they dress is just as much as respect to the way we, the west have chosen to dress.



cheers
ken
Such a funny cartoon...but it is relevant...as the debate of what is acceptable for women to wear...wine
lind
Thanks for dropping by...sad to see the niqab debate in regards to our courts' dress code became a political platform...it could have been simpler to compromise...see Rex's comments from the National News program...

Countries such as Canada have had so much change in regards to its population...once a country dominated by European ethnicity...now a mixture of people living quite different culturally speaking...seems to me we need to decide what rules are important to keep and what can be discarded...to be able to live with out so much tension among us...wine
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loulou77

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Iam a down to earth individual who likes to travel and learn about different countries and their cultures. [read more]

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