HEALTH CARE BILL PASSES!!!! (243)
I do find a problem with it, particularly since I already pay 15.35% Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid rider(because I am self employed, I pay double what is deducted from your paycheck as an employee), I also pay 37% in federal and state income taxes, which is 52.35% of my net income plus property taxes, sales taxes, licenses and fees.
Obviously no service is free, someone has to pay for it and you have a $6,000 bill because you chose to not have health insurance and it did not work in your favor. That is unfortunate, but even the health care bill needs people to pay for. Remember the old commercial, "pay me now or pay me later"?
Obviously no service is free, someone has to pay for it and you have a $6,000 bill because you chose to not have health insurance and it did not work in your favor. That is unfortunate, but even the health care bill needs people to pay for. Remember the old commercial, "pay me now or pay me later"?
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Look, *****. I also pay the same self-employment taxes you do. I did not "not choose" to have health insurance; I cannot afford to PAY for it. Get it? I know of many people who DO have health insurance and their coverage is not adequate. No, no service is free, and I never said it should be. I contribute every damn bit to this society as a working individual as you do, and just because I cannot afford the asinine and exorbitant costs of health insurance doesn't mean I should be exempt from receiving healthcare. What about people who are much worse off than either one of us is? Are you that heartless and dispassionate about them, too? Do you think,like so many other people I know, that those who cannot afford health insurance should just go ahead and die? People without money are really worthless, aren't they?
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ladichatterlee: Look, *****. I also pay the same self-employment taxes you do. I did not "not choose" to have health insurance; I cannot afford to PAY for it. Get it? I know of many people who DO have health insurance and their coverage is not adequate. No, no service is free, and I never said it should be. I contribute every damn bit to this society as a working individual as you do, and just because I cannot afford the asinine and exorbitant costs of health insurance doesn't mean I should be exempt from receiving healthcare. What about people who are much worse off than either one of us is? Are you that heartless and dispassionate about them, too? Do you think,like so many other people I know, that those who cannot afford health insurance should just go ahead and die? People without money are really worthless, aren't they?
When it by by their own actions or choice, they should not impose on me and there is no moral obligation for me to pay for it. Never did I say it should be denied to those who are clearly unable to work or care for themselves, but that is the responsibility of charitable organizations, not the government.
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toranoga: I always find it interesting that you hear all these stories about people working 2 or 3 jobs and 16 hours a day that can't afford health insurance and yet few have ever been turned away from an emergency room, or refused necessary medical care. It is a right to have access to health care, but it sure as hell is not a fundamental right to have government operated health care. Quote me where in the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, or subsequent ammendments that is stated!
If the health insurance and pharma companies control everything, how did that happen when the federal government regulates all of them through the interstate commerce clause and why has congress not passed legislation that would allow those same companies to sell across state lines therby increasing competition amongst and between those companies? Any excess profits or control those companies may have are a direct result of bills passed by congress. That being said, do you really believe that the Federal government can efficiently and effectively operate a system their legislation screwd up in the first place? Go back to 1964, the year before congress passed Johnson's "Great Society" programs and you will see that health care costs ran less than 7% of GDP as compared to todays 17% of GDP. The vast majority of that increase is due directly to government intervention at al levels.
If the health insurance and pharma companies control everything, how did that happen when the federal government regulates all of them through the interstate commerce clause and why has congress not passed legislation that would allow those same companies to sell across state lines therby increasing competition amongst and between those companies? Any excess profits or control those companies may have are a direct result of bills passed by congress. That being said, do you really believe that the Federal government can efficiently and effectively operate a system their legislation screwd up in the first place? Go back to 1964, the year before congress passed Johnson's "Great Society" programs and you will see that health care costs ran less than 7% of GDP as compared to todays 17% of GDP. The vast majority of that increase is due directly to government intervention at al levels.
Hmmmm..... Somehow all of Congress gets platimun health care ... why not everyone else ?
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toranoga: When it by by their own actions or choice, they should not impose on me and there is no moral obligation for me to pay for it. Never did I say it should be denied to those who are clearly unable to work or care for themselves, but that is the responsibility of charitable organizations, not the government.
If health insurance was made mandatory, like car insurance, (and affordable) then you wouldn't have to worry about a moral obligation to pay. Having said that, I do feel a moral obligation toward people who are less fortunate than I am. I'm not so self-absorbed and greedy that I would throw a tantrum if my tax dollars were being used to fund goverment health care for those who cannot afford it. Lord knows, it's already used for a lot of crap I'd never support if I had a choice in the matter.
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I am a self employed individual who makes a decent living in California. I could not get health insurance because of a pre-exisiting condition so had to go through the state's major medical program at a whopping $816.00 a month. I can see how someone could not afford this, it is an extreme burden on me financially.
I do feel people should give up cable, etc. to pay for their health insurance and not expect other people to be responsible for it. But for those with pre-existing conditions the monthly premiums can be too high. I can afford a few hundred a month, but when you are getting to $1,000.00 it starts breaking the bank. And no, I don't have cancer or any life threatening disease with high medical costs. I don't want the costs placed on taxpayers (I am one of them!) but the problem does need to be addressed and some solutions found.
I do feel people should give up cable, etc. to pay for their health insurance and not expect other people to be responsible for it. But for those with pre-existing conditions the monthly premiums can be too high. I can afford a few hundred a month, but when you are getting to $1,000.00 it starts breaking the bank. And no, I don't have cancer or any life threatening disease with high medical costs. I don't want the costs placed on taxpayers (I am one of them!) but the problem does need to be addressed and some solutions found.
ladichatterlee: I work two jobs, self-employed, and have no "toys," and still cannot afford health insurance. Don't assume the majority of people who don't have health insurance is because they simply won't get off their fat butts and work. I need my cell phone for communication with clients, family, etc. I need internet for my work. The amount I pay for cable wouldn't even begin to cover health insurance. For many people, it's a choice between paying for groceries and paying for health insurance. I absolutely DETEST incompassionate people like you who asssume that people who cannot afford insurance can't do so simply because they sit on their "fat butts" and don't work. There are multitudes of very hard-working people (harder working than you are, in many cases, I would bet) who STILL cannot afford adequate health insurance. I don't believe health care should be afforded to only those people who can, well, afford it. What makes you any more deserving of health care just because you can afford to pay for it, versus someone else who can't? Why should someone have to make personal sacrifices to obtain that which should be a fundamental right of every citizen of this country? I pay freaking taxes, same as you do. I provide two different services, work sometimes 16 hours or more a day. The insurance and pharmaceutical companies control everything now, with regard to medical care. Are you satisfied with that? I know of no one who is.
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jvaski: Hmmmm..... Somehow all of Congress gets platimun health care ... why not everyone else ?
Shhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!! That is suppose to be a secret 
Well, in reality...it makes sense why they don't really care about making a decent health care plan...after all everyone that serves 1 term in congress is set for life
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When it by by their own actions or choice, they should not impose on me and there is no moral obligation for me to pay for it. Never did I say it should be denied to those who are clearly unable to work or care for themselves, but that is the responsibility of charitable organizations, not the government.[/quote]
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Give up toranoga..
they will never understand..
they don't want to..
they TRUELY believe that they can have whatever they
may want or need WITHOUT paying, and if they cannot
pay.. they demand YOU pay.. And when they suck you, me,
the gov.. the'll find a reason and excuse of why that is
not their fault either..
If we go by THEIR logic, greed and reasoning..
then:
I cannot afford to pay for a new hummer,
white wine and filet's as much as I'd like..
MAYBE the gov. should GIVE it to me if
I whine and complain and make up all kinds
of good reasons & excuses of why I did not
become a millionaire so I could afford it..
I worked hard..
wahh wahh wahh.
give me
give me
I want and want and want..
except I do not want to accept responsibility for MY life decisions.
RE-read your rant..
I'm posting NOTHING here except re-wording EXACTLY what
this whole thread is stating..
---SoldierByte---
===============================
Give up toranoga..
they will never understand..
they don't want to..
they TRUELY believe that they can have whatever they
may want or need WITHOUT paying, and if they cannot
pay.. they demand YOU pay.. And when they suck you, me,
the gov.. the'll find a reason and excuse of why that is
not their fault either..
If we go by THEIR logic, greed and reasoning..
then:
I cannot afford to pay for a new hummer,
white wine and filet's as much as I'd like..
MAYBE the gov. should GIVE it to me if
I whine and complain and make up all kinds
of good reasons & excuses of why I did not
become a millionaire so I could afford it..
I worked hard..
wahh wahh wahh.
give me
give me
I want and want and want..
except I do not want to accept responsibility for MY life decisions.
RE-read your rant..
I'm posting NOTHING here except re-wording EXACTLY what
this whole thread is stating..
---SoldierByte---
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SoldierByte:
they TRUELY believe that they can have whatever they
may want or need WITHOUT paying, and if they cannot
pay.. they demand YOU pay.. And when they suck you, me,
the gov.. the'll find a reason and excuse of why that is
not their fault either..
---SoldierByte---
they TRUELY believe that they can have whatever they
may want or need WITHOUT paying, and if they cannot
pay.. they demand YOU pay.. And when they suck you, me,
the gov.. the'll find a reason and excuse of why that is
not their fault either..
---SoldierByte---
but if it is a government ran health care system, won't they be paying too through taxes? 
And come on guys seriously, at least Health Care is a good intention...I mean the government clearly can't stop spending money, and won't stop spending money...so they mine as well spend it on something useful.
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the debate here is NOT health care..
It is WHO will pay..
Give health Care to everyone in the world,
and the next three planets..
Is fine with me..
BUT I DO not want to pay for it..
and when or IF I do decide to "give to charity"
for those who cannot afford..
WHO the HELL are they to TELL me, DEMAND,
and state what I should give, do, and sustain..??
Please....
---SoldierByte---
It is WHO will pay..
Give health Care to everyone in the world,
and the next three planets..
Is fine with me..
BUT I DO not want to pay for it..
and when or IF I do decide to "give to charity"
for those who cannot afford..
WHO the HELL are they to TELL me, DEMAND,
and state what I should give, do, and sustain..??
Please....
---SoldierByte---
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The 39 House Democrats who Voted Against Their Party's Health Care Bill
Posted: 11/8/09
The Democrats who voted against the bill:
John Adler (NJ)
Jason Altmire (PA)
Brian Baird (WA)
John Barrow (GA)
John Boccieri (OH)
Dan Boren (OK)
Rick Boucher (VA)
Allen Boyd (FL)
Bobby Bright (AL)
Ben Chandler (KT)
Travis Childers (MS)
Artur Davis (AL)
Lincoln Davis (TN)
Chet Edwards (TX)
Bart Gordon (TN)
Parker Griffith (AL)
Stephanie Herseth Sandlin (SD)
Tim Holden (PA)
Larry Kissell (NC)
Suzanne Kosmas (FL)
Frank Kratovil (MD)
Dennis Kucinich (OH)
Jim Marshall (GA)
Betsy Markey (CO)
Eric Massa (NY)
Jim Matheson(UT)
Mike McIntyre (NC)
Michael McMahon (NY)
Charlie Melancon (LA)
Walt Minnick (ID)
Scott Murphy (NY)
Glenn Nye (VA)
Collin Peterson (MN)
Mike Ross (AR)
Heath Shuler (NC)
Ike Skelton (MO)
John Tanner (TN)
Gene Taylor (MS)
Harry Teague (NM)
This should tell you/me something about the Bill in question!
Posted: 11/8/09
The Democrats who voted against the bill:
John Adler (NJ)
Jason Altmire (PA)
Brian Baird (WA)
John Barrow (GA)
John Boccieri (OH)
Dan Boren (OK)
Rick Boucher (VA)
Allen Boyd (FL)
Bobby Bright (AL)
Ben Chandler (KT)
Travis Childers (MS)
Artur Davis (AL)
Lincoln Davis (TN)
Chet Edwards (TX)
Bart Gordon (TN)
Parker Griffith (AL)
Stephanie Herseth Sandlin (SD)
Tim Holden (PA)
Larry Kissell (NC)
Suzanne Kosmas (FL)
Frank Kratovil (MD)
Dennis Kucinich (OH)
Jim Marshall (GA)
Betsy Markey (CO)
Eric Massa (NY)
Jim Matheson(UT)
Mike McIntyre (NC)
Michael McMahon (NY)
Charlie Melancon (LA)
Walt Minnick (ID)
Scott Murphy (NY)
Glenn Nye (VA)
Collin Peterson (MN)
Mike Ross (AR)
Heath Shuler (NC)
Ike Skelton (MO)
John Tanner (TN)
Gene Taylor (MS)
Harry Teague (NM)
This should tell you/me something about the Bill in question!
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SoldierByte: the debate here is NOT health care..
It is WHO will pay..
Give health Care to everyone in the world,
and the next three planets..
Is fine with me..
BUT I DO not want to pay for it..
and when or IF I do decide to "give to charity"
for those who cannot afford..
WHO the HELL are they to TELL me, DEMAND,
and state what I should give, do, and sustain..??
Please....
---SoldierByte---
It is WHO will pay..
Give health Care to everyone in the world,
and the next three planets..
Is fine with me..
BUT I DO not want to pay for it..
and when or IF I do decide to "give to charity"
for those who cannot afford..
WHO the HELL are they to TELL me, DEMAND,
and state what I should give, do, and sustain..??
Please....
---SoldierByte---
Just curious.......Do you get your health care through the Veterans Administration?
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how about the people who don't have it and don't want it?
how can they be forced to have insurance?
i think maybe we ought to stop all health care and let the weak die, hows that sound?
how can they be forced to have insurance?
i think maybe we ought to stop all health care and let the weak die, hows that sound?
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lookin4ubabe: Just curious.......Do you get your health care through the Veterans Administration?
OF COURSE..
I SERVED and ploanned, knowing I wanted to
HAVE something in my later years..
I CHOOSE to make a career for the benifits..
I did not make up excuses..
YOU also had same chois..
so did most..
I get NOTHING for free..
NOTHING...
How dare you insinuate what ANY service person
EARNED...!
but then "earned"..
is a term I see many of you fail to comprehend..
I PAID for what I have and got..
PAID a price most will never know..
I got NOTHING for free..
trust me mam..
I PAID...[/size]
---SoldierByte---
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oranges2apples: how about the people who don't have it and don't want it?
how can they be forced to have insurance?
i think maybe we ought to stop all health care and let the weak die, hows that sound?
how can they be forced to have insurance?
i think maybe we ought to stop all health care and let the weak die, hows that sound?
I don't want to pay for auto insurance, but am required too. Never thought I would need it, I have been thankful at times to have it!!
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SoldierByte: OF COURSE..
I SERVED and ploanned, knowing I wanted to
HAVE something in my later years..
I CHOOSE to make a career for the benifits..
I did not make up excuses..
YOU also had same chois..
so did most..
I get NOTHING for free..
NOTHING...
How dare you insinuate what ANY service person
EARNED...!
but then "earned"..
is a term I see many of you fail to comprehend..
I PAID for what I have and got..
PAID a price most will never know..
I got NOTHING for free..
trust me mam..
I PAID...
---SoldierByte---
I SERVED and ploanned, knowing I wanted to
HAVE something in my later years..
I CHOOSE to make a career for the benifits..
I did not make up excuses..
YOU also had same chois..
so did most..
I get NOTHING for free..
NOTHING...
How dare you insinuate what ANY service person
EARNED...!
but then "earned"..
is a term I see many of you fail to comprehend..
I PAID for what I have and got..
PAID a price most will never know..
I got NOTHING for free..
trust me mam..
I PAID...
---SoldierByte---
Dude...Chill, it was just a question!!
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lookin4ubabe: Those are the figures they have been touting on FOX news based on their polls. Funny thing is the majority of their viewers are conservatives that are against the bill, so the numbers are quite subjective.
Dont trust statistics you havent manipulated yourself
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ladichatterlee: Why should they be turned away from an emergency room? It is against the law to refuse treatment to anyone in an emergent situation, regardless of whether you have insurance or not. As I stated before, I was not refused EMERGENT care, but I've got a $6,000-plus bill for that care. It is NOT free.
Other than EMERGENT care, I have been turned down for medical care on more than one occasion, based on the fact I didn't have insurance and couldn't afford to pay the bill up front, at the time of services.
I don't see a problem with government-operated care. I do believe everyone has a right to health care, however. There are people in far worse situations than I am who cannot afford health insurance and there are people in far better situations who also cannot afford health insurance. EVERYONE deserves adequate health care, not just snooty people who think they're better than everyone else.
Other than EMERGENT care, I have been turned down for medical care on more than one occasion, based on the fact I didn't have insurance and couldn't afford to pay the bill up front, at the time of services.
I don't see a problem with government-operated care. I do believe everyone has a right to health care, however. There are people in far worse situations than I am who cannot afford health insurance and there are people in far better situations who also cannot afford health insurance. EVERYONE deserves adequate health care, not just snooty people who think they're better than everyone else.
To be honest i am a little bit shocked reading that all, never thought that your health care system would be so inequitable...
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ladichatterlee: Look, *****. I also pay the same self-employment taxes you do. I did not "not choose" to have health insurance; I cannot afford to PAY for it. Get it? I know of many people who DO have health insurance and their coverage is not adequate. No, no service is free, and I never said it should be. I contribute every damn bit to this society as a working individual as you do, and just because I cannot afford the asinine and exorbitant costs of health insurance doesn't mean I should be exempt from receiving healthcare. What about people who are much worse off than either one of us is? Are you that heartless and dispassionate about them, too? Do you think,like so many other people I know, that those who cannot afford health insurance should just go ahead and die? People without money are really worthless, aren't they?
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If the health insurance and pharma companies control everything, how did that happen when the federal government regulates all of them through the interstate commerce clause and why has congress not passed legislation that would allow those same companies to sell across state lines therby increasing competition amongst and between those companies? Any excess profits or control those companies may have are a direct result of bills passed by congress. That being said, do you really believe that the Federal government can efficiently and effectively operate a system their legislation screwd up in the first place? Go back to 1964, the year before congress passed Johnson's "Great Society" programs and you will see that health care costs ran less than 7% of GDP as compared to todays 17% of GDP. The vast majority of that increase is due directly to government intervention at al levels.
Why should they be turned away from an emergency room? It is against the law to refuse treatment to anyone in an emergent situation, regardless of whether you have insurance or not. As I stated before, I was not refused EMERGENT care, but I've got a $6,000-plus bill for that care. It is NOT free.
Other than EMERGENT care, I have been turned down for medical care on more than one occasion, based on the fact I didn't have insurance and couldn't afford to pay the bill up front, at the time of services.
I don't see a problem with government-operated care. I do believe everyone has a right to health care, however. There are people in far worse situations than I am who cannot afford health insurance and there are people in far better situations who also cannot afford health insurance. EVERYONE deserves adequate health care, not just snooty people who think they're better than everyone else.