riots in London (499)
seems like a thread for ex cops...
im off..
im off..
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craig63: do society a huge favour and just shoot the brainless idiots.
It takes a 'big' man to show this kind of restraint.
And he's lost far more than most...
The father of a man killed when he was hit by a car during a night of disorder in Birmingham has appealed for calm and for people to stay at home.
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EagleWoman: Jyoaepace Your post has prompted some deep thinking and soul searching ... and this is my take on it!!! Hope you won't mind me picking your argument appart. It's not personal ...
1. A good home is a functional dwelling with doors and windows and a roof. Most people have that but what they what they fancy is more luxury and colour matching schemes. While they focus on that they forget to share the love which is the most important ingedient/furnishing within the dwelling.
2. Most European countries have a fairly good welfare system escially for children who are the future of society.
3. Education is compulsory up to the age of 16 and has never been more focused in providing schemes for disaffected children AND children with learning difficulties who in the past would have just been made to wear a dunces hat.
4. Satisfying work opportunities? The dissatisfaction with "jobs" comes from the "thinking culture" that trades and manual work aren't good enough and require too much effort!! Once upon a time, everyone's work was valued including the dustman!!
5. Old age pension for some people has always been so meagre that pensioners died of cold in the winter. What's new?
6. People are stressed out because the family structure has dis-appeared. I'm not talking about single parents here, I'm talking about the extended family, where the grandparents/aunts/uncles/sibblings lived nearby and those "with" helped those without. No OAPs died of cold in the winter (their children would make sure of that), children didn't roam the streets because their parents were at work (family members would look after them), single mums/dads would have the support of their families etc.
7. Working hard to prosper instead of to live happily is precisely what has tipped the balanced. When chasing prosperity became the main focus, people became blind, small minded and self-serving!! After a few generations of this we have a fragmented society created by our own self-centeredness and small-mindedness. Pointing the finger in any direction is futile!!!
8. Inequality in wealth has always existed and is not the root of the fragmented sosiety. Greed and materialism at the expense of family values is (again I'm not talking about single parents but about the dis-appearance of the extended family).
IMHO
Abundance is NOT having the BEST and loads of EVERYTHING
Abundance is having what you need (not necesseraly what you want)when you need it (that includes loving people around you).
1. A good home is a functional dwelling with doors and windows and a roof. Most people have that but what they what they fancy is more luxury and colour matching schemes. While they focus on that they forget to share the love which is the most important ingedient/furnishing within the dwelling.
2. Most European countries have a fairly good welfare system escially for children who are the future of society.
3. Education is compulsory up to the age of 16 and has never been more focused in providing schemes for disaffected children AND children with learning difficulties who in the past would have just been made to wear a dunces hat.
4. Satisfying work opportunities? The dissatisfaction with "jobs" comes from the "thinking culture" that trades and manual work aren't good enough and require too much effort!! Once upon a time, everyone's work was valued including the dustman!!
5. Old age pension for some people has always been so meagre that pensioners died of cold in the winter. What's new?
6. People are stressed out because the family structure has dis-appeared. I'm not talking about single parents here, I'm talking about the extended family, where the grandparents/aunts/uncles/sibblings lived nearby and those "with" helped those without. No OAPs died of cold in the winter (their children would make sure of that), children didn't roam the streets because their parents were at work (family members would look after them), single mums/dads would have the support of their families etc.
7. Working hard to prosper instead of to live happily is precisely what has tipped the balanced. When chasing prosperity became the main focus, people became blind, small minded and self-serving!! After a few generations of this we have a fragmented society created by our own self-centeredness and small-mindedness. Pointing the finger in any direction is futile!!!
8. Inequality in wealth has always existed and is not the root of the fragmented sosiety. Greed and materialism at the expense of family values is (again I'm not talking about single parents but about the dis-appearance of the extended family).
IMHO
Abundance is NOT having the BEST and loads of EVERYTHING
Abundance is having what you need (not necesseraly what you want)when you need it (that includes loving people around you).
Good evening!
I agree with you about lost family bonds, that is one big reason of unhappiness. However, getting on on few welfare euros a week left after payments is not fun. Would be nice to go to the cinema or concert, or go somewhere on journey, even if in the area, but you have to stay at home, because you have no money. Your computer is about to die and mobile falling apart and so on. Like my sister who has 3 small kids says, in the winter you either heat or eat. Well, as a grown up person and a person who had had better times, you may think, ah it does not matter. I am alive and have legs and hands and can walk and breathe, so life is ok. Not so for the kids who don't have any idea why it is so that they have so little while others so much money they can never spend it. And the homes are not good in UK, and here in Ireland they are not great either. Cold and moldy. We, tenants share a house among 5-6 people. Many houses offered for the rent are just horrible. There is a minimal standard that a person wants to be content with the life.
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EagleWoman: Jyoaepace Your post has prompted some deep thinking and soul searching ... and this is my take on it!!! Hope you won't mind me picking your argument appart. It's not personal ...
1. A good home is a functional dwelling with doors and windows and a roof. Most people have that but what they what they fancy is more luxury and colour matching schemes. While they focus on that they forget to share the love which is the most important ingedient/furnishing within the dwelling.
2. Most European countries have a fairly good welfare system escially for children who are the future of society.
3. Education is compulsory up to the age of 16 and has never been more focused in providing schemes for disaffected children AND children with learning difficulties who in the past would have just been made to wear a dunces hat.
4. Satisfying work opportunities? The dissatisfaction with "jobs" comes from the "thinking culture" that trades and manual work aren't good enough and require too much effort!! Once upon a time, everyone's work was valued including the dustman!!
5. Old age pension for some people has always been so meagre that pensioners died of cold in the winter. What's new?
6. People are stressed out because the family structure has dis-appeared. I'm not talking about single parents here, I'm talking about the extended family, where the grandparents/aunts/uncles/sibblings lived nearby and those "with" helped those without. No OAPs died of cold in the winter (their children would make sure of that), children didn't roam the streets because their parents were at work (family members would look after them), single mums/dads would have the support of their families etc.
7. Working hard to prosper instead of to live happily is precisely what has tipped the balanced. When chasing prosperity became the main focus, people became blind, small minded and self-serving!! After a few generations of this we have a fragmented society created by our own self-centeredness and small-mindedness. Pointing the finger in any direction is futile!!!
8. Inequality in wealth has always existed and is not the root of the fragmented sosiety. Greed and materialism at the expense of family values is (again I'm not talking about single parents but about the dis-appearance of the extended family).
IMHO
Abundance is NOT having the BEST and loads of EVERYTHING
Abundance is having what you need (not necesseraly what you want)when you need it (that includes loving people around you).
1. A good home is a functional dwelling with doors and windows and a roof. Most people have that but what they what they fancy is more luxury and colour matching schemes. While they focus on that they forget to share the love which is the most important ingedient/furnishing within the dwelling.
2. Most European countries have a fairly good welfare system escially for children who are the future of society.
3. Education is compulsory up to the age of 16 and has never been more focused in providing schemes for disaffected children AND children with learning difficulties who in the past would have just been made to wear a dunces hat.
4. Satisfying work opportunities? The dissatisfaction with "jobs" comes from the "thinking culture" that trades and manual work aren't good enough and require too much effort!! Once upon a time, everyone's work was valued including the dustman!!
5. Old age pension for some people has always been so meagre that pensioners died of cold in the winter. What's new?
6. People are stressed out because the family structure has dis-appeared. I'm not talking about single parents here, I'm talking about the extended family, where the grandparents/aunts/uncles/sibblings lived nearby and those "with" helped those without. No OAPs died of cold in the winter (their children would make sure of that), children didn't roam the streets because their parents were at work (family members would look after them), single mums/dads would have the support of their families etc.
7. Working hard to prosper instead of to live happily is precisely what has tipped the balanced. When chasing prosperity became the main focus, people became blind, small minded and self-serving!! After a few generations of this we have a fragmented society created by our own self-centeredness and small-mindedness. Pointing the finger in any direction is futile!!!
8. Inequality in wealth has always existed and is not the root of the fragmented sosiety. Greed and materialism at the expense of family values is (again I'm not talking about single parents but about the dis-appearance of the extended family).
IMHO
Abundance is NOT having the BEST and loads of EVERYTHING
Abundance is having what you need (not necesseraly what you want)when you need it (that includes loving people around you).
Continued.
Well, jobs differ. I am now in a community employment in an organization that works with children. It is a voluntary organization and I am happy with my work. The community rate is small, but I go to the work with pleasure, because I know that I work for a good cause. And the people I work with also work there because they love their work. So, the atmosphere is good. It is not a case in many companies though. Your are treated just like a resource to be exploited, no interest whatsoever from your employers about your life or problems. I don't think they respect your work, it is all about profit, not job satisfaction or respect. I worked in such places, in those big retail stores and it is a nightmare that I may have to go back there when my internship here ends. But hope very much for better when I get my degree. No, I can't agree with all your claims that prosperity does not matter. It is much better than poverty, and there is no need for people to live in poverty in this time and with the high GDP per capita that we have. The governments have to start to think about better prospects for small businesses and ordinary people rather than promoting inequality and social divide by giving privileges to super rich.
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tomcatwarne: An independent investigation may help, prison sentences are a matter for the courts.
Yes, Im completely aware of that.
It was a somewhat sarcastic comment.
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Bodecia: As far as Im concerned, and I remember all the riots you list, if the riots had not started in the first place, and the rioters had not taken the law into their own hands, and the police had not had to go in to keep the other residents of the area safe, then there would be no questions on either side.
I dont care if the police poured boiling oil on them; they deserved everything they got. Im sick and tired of being PC and not having a voice.
Personally, I believe they deserve all they get, these rioters. Stop ruining the country even further for the rest of us, stop being so damned selfish and disrespectful and take the time to find other ways of protesting.
I dont care if the police poured boiling oil on them; they deserved everything they got. Im sick and tired of being PC and not having a voice.
Personally, I believe they deserve all they get, these rioters. Stop ruining the country even further for the rest of us, stop being so damned selfish and disrespectful and take the time to find other ways of protesting.
Further, lets not forget the many police officers who lost their lives in these events over the years, and their families who had to live on.
Yes, these officers knew the risks of their profession: SO DID THE RIOTERS.
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All I have to say re- the riots & the ones involved in London SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! on you. 
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joyaepace: 'Jail is something that everyone should experience in their lives', I think I have read this somewhere. I don't think that a jail is such a good idea for young people and for relatively small crimes. It would be much better idea to force them to do public work, to clean streets and other manual jobs. Also, impose learning of trades as a condition for shortening of sentence. There could be ways found to rehabilitate many of these young people, if there was will. What is a point to keep them idle in jails? Just breed more criminals. There are many more criminals in jails already in UK than anywhere else in Europe.
Now, heard that a man died in hospital, that is really sad. RIP courageous man!
Now, heard that a man died in hospital, that is really sad. RIP courageous man!
How do you know ALL THIS is not happening?
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patmac: No job, so society pays their Rent, Council Tax, gives them cash for food and power, Pays for their clothing and their Kids clothing and YOU try to say society has done nothing .....I just love the way you have never changed your attitude you will argue and stir regardless of what name you use....Sad when you cannot face the truth.
Society looks after these folk as best it can and they have no God given right to the goods they stole. Or a god given right to a job unless they earn it and you do that by learning and getting an education and becoming a decent part of society. Did you listen to the morons who we all heard trying to justify why they did it.
Ill educated unemployable and a total drain on society. They had the choice and did not choose to be educated and their parents are to blame for that not society PARENTS....YOUR KIDS YOUR RESPONSABILITY...Not mine or the teachers or the social worker PARENTS.....And sadly many parents do not and will not control their kids...Lets hear what you say about that society old son begins at home within the family,learn that and you might become a decent person unlike this ferral lot.
Society looks after these folk as best it can and they have no God given right to the goods they stole. Or a god given right to a job unless they earn it and you do that by learning and getting an education and becoming a decent part of society. Did you listen to the morons who we all heard trying to justify why they did it.
Ill educated unemployable and a total drain on society. They had the choice and did not choose to be educated and their parents are to blame for that not society PARENTS....YOUR KIDS YOUR RESPONSABILITY...Not mine or the teachers or the social worker PARENTS.....And sadly many parents do not and will not control their kids...Lets hear what you say about that society old son begins at home within the family,learn that and you might become a decent person unlike this ferral lot.
And what if the parents are not better, who is responsible then? What makes so many people useless to society?
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EagleWoman: How do you know ALL THIS is not happening?
Never heard of anything like public works in this part of world. Have heard about such correction method in US though. There were posters speaking about social workers and programmes for them, but they may be not the right ones for criminally oriented children. There must be much harder, if you wish, stick and carrot based approach. They do not appreciate weak methods, they must be shown that it is in their best interest to comply with the law, or they will suffer. On the other hand, comply, and you will be rewarded with respect and trust. They need as many duties and responsibilities as rights and someone who can demand compliance, if not parent, then strict, but just police officer dealing with them.
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joyaepace: 'Jail is something that everyone should experience in their lives', I think I have read this somewhere. I don't think that a jail is such a good idea for young people and for relatively small crimes. It would be much better idea to force them to do public work, to clean streets and other manual jobs. Also, impose learning of trades as a condition for shortening of sentence. There could be ways found to rehabilitate many of these young people, if there was will. What is a point to keep them idle in jails? Just breed more criminals. There are many more criminals in jails already in UK than anywhere else in Europe.
Now, heard that a man died in hospital, that is really sad. RIP courageous man!
They had or still have a program where they take young teens that get into trouble and spend the day in prison talking to "lifers" ( It was actually the "lifer's idea ) they got to hear what life is like in prison....they got to be locked down for an hour.....they got to know that a belt loop sometimes is not JUST a belt loop... I am not sure how successful it was .....but the looks on these prior "tough guys" was priceless...Now, heard that a man died in hospital, that is really sad. RIP courageous man!
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joyaepace: And what if the parents are not better, who is responsible then? What makes so many people useless to society?
they make themselves useless....
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joyaepace: Never heard of anything like public works in this part of world. Have heard about such correction method in US though. There were posters speaking about social workers and programmes for them, but they may be not the right ones for criminally oriented children. There must be much harder, if you wish, stick and carrot based approach. They do not appreciate weak methods, they must be shown that it is in their best interest to comply with the law, or they will suffer. On the other hand, comply, and you will be rewarded with respect and trust. They need as many duties and responsibilities as rights and someone who can demand compliance, if not parent, then strict, but just police officer dealing with them.
Ok maybe they need them there then .....but we have loads of programs to help everyone with everything ....even to clip your toe nails if you need someone to....------ This thread is Archived ------
joyaepace: Never heard of anything like public works in this part of world. Have heard about such correction method in US though. There were posters speaking about social workers and programmes for them, but they may be not the right ones for criminally oriented children. There must be much harder, if you wish, stick and carrot based approach. They do not appreciate weak methods, they must be shown that it is in their best interest to comply with the law, or they will suffer. On the other hand, comply, and you will be rewarded with respect and trust. They need as many duties and responsibilities as rights and someone who can demand compliance, if not parent, then strict, but just police officer dealing with them.
It's called "community service" when they have to do work serving the community instead of going to jail ...
Also within the young offenders jail system they have to or can attend training courses for trades/study and group therapy for anger management etc.
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grizzwald: They had or still have a program where they take young teens that get into trouble and spend the day in prison talking to "lifers" ( It was actually the "lifer's idea ) they got to hear what life is like in prison....they got to be locked down for an hour.....they got to know that a belt loop sometimes is not JUST a belt loop... I am not sure how successful it was .....but the looks on these prior "tough guys" was priceless...
I worked for the county here in California and would go pick up the 'worker inmates' for our department, some of the things these woman and men told me...I would not do well in jail or prison
OMG!!!! What a scary place!!------ This thread is Archived ------
crazyblondeone: I worked for the county here in California and would go pick up the 'worker inmates' for our department, some of the things these woman and men told me...I would not do well in jail or prison OMG!!!! What a scary place!!
Exactly...these kids have no clue what awaits them ....and the ones that get out don't tell them ....cause they want their tough guy status back on the streets....so the younger ones actually look up to them....but when they are in, it is a bit different story
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grizzwald: Ok maybe they need them there then .....but we have loads of programs to help everyone with everything ....even to clip your toe nails if you need someone to....
I am afraid there is no choice. They are a cost to society anyway, so it is in society's interest to try to minimize that cost. It is probably better to try to correct them than just pack prisons full. Society can't just put them on the space ship and send away, can it?
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joyaepace: I am afraid there is no choice. They are a cost to society anyway, so it is in society's interest to try to minimize that cost. It is probably better to try to correct them than just pack prisons full. Society can't just put them on the space ship and send away, can it?
Only if we build them to seat more than 10 people....it would be to costly otherwise... ------ This thread is Archived ------
Its completely understandable what happened
Its the youths telling us they don't approve of this broken system we are so happily and completely programmed to keep it running...
Think we can see more of this from now on, and the solution is not to 'CRACK DOWN ON IT!'
Its the youths telling us they don't approve of this broken system we are so happily and completely programmed to keep it running...
Think we can see more of this from now on, and the solution is not to 'CRACK DOWN ON IT!'
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And what if he had killed someone en route, he would probably only get about 5 years for manslaughter by misadventure and only serve 2 or 3.
One big problem is that society feels cheated by constantly seeing these reduced sentences. The courts must adhere to the punishment given at the time of the crime regardless of how is must also jugle the budget and free up prison spaces.