PeKaatjeAnkeveen, North Holland Netherlands6,334 posts
In Italy they only count the people with corona in the hospitals, also the deaths must have been hospitalized. So the real number of ill and death people is way higher.
In the Netherlands people, that need dayly care because they are old, ain't even welcome in the hospitals as they got infected. It's a choice the government makes, for they have not enough capacity to help everybody.
Because the dutch are very secure on their food- and waterquality, they can't have much to get ill. Most people travelling over the border will drink bottled water, for water out of the tap will give them diarrhea.
Due to that factor people in the Netherlands become older than they used to do 30 years ago, now 85 for a woman is quit common. So there are very much old people and less and less people to help them. The healthcare system is overstrained.
There are about 11.000 confirmations of infected people and about 800 deaths. Almost all above 60 years, so I guess it's good for the system.
MustangWriter: Cancer & old age deaths listed as Coronavirus?
The coronavirus pandemic is exacting a heavy toll on Italy, with hospitals overwhelmed and a nationwide lockdown imposed. But experts are also concerned about a seemingly high death rate, with the number of fatalities outstripping the total reported in China. Of the 63,927 people confirmed coronavirus patients in Italy, 6,077 so far have died. By contrast China has many more cases, 81,496, but 3,274 fatalities. In very crude terms, this means that around nine per cent of confirmed coronavirus patients have died in Italy, compared to four per cent in China. By this measure Germany, which has so far identified 28,865 cases and 118 deaths, has a fatality rate of just 0.4 per cent. So why the disparity? According to Prof Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health, the country’s mortality rate is far higher due to demographics - the nation has the second oldest population worldwide - and the manner in which hospitals record deaths.
“The age of our patients in hospitals is substantially older - the median is 67, while in China it was 46,” Prof Ricciardi says. “So essentially the age distribution of our patients is squeezed to an older age and this is substantial in increasing the lethality.”
A study in JAMA this week found that almost 40 per cent of infections and 87 per cent of deaths in the country have been in patients over 70 years old.
And according to modelling by Imperial College, London the majority of this age group are likely to need critical hospital care - including 80 per cent of 80-somethings - putting immense pressure on the health system. But Prof Ricciardi added that Italy’s death rate may also appear high because of how doctors record fatalities. “The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus.
“On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity - many had two or three,” he says.
This does not mean that Covid-19 did not contribute to a patient's death, rather it demonstrates that Italy's fatality toll has surged as a large proportion of patients have underlying health conditions.
But there are other factors that may have contributed to Italy’s fatality rates, experts say. This includes a high rate of smoking and pollution - the majority of deaths have been in the northern region Lombardy region, which is notorious for poor air quality.
And there’s also no question that parts of Italy’s health system have been overwhelmed with a surge of coronavirus patients and are struggling to cope.
"There are three factors involved in Italy: one is that it is a much older population, two the health system was overwhelmed, and three there has been a significant loss of health workers because of a high coronavirus infection rate among them,” says Prof McKee. "Italy is ahead of us in the epidemic - and it’s not clear how many health workers [in the UK] are having to self isolate. That’s another big concern. "Based on Italy’s experience, there is a real concern for the UK,” adds Prof McKee. “Compared to almost every other European country we have a relative shortage of ventilators and medical staff.”
It is no more lying than any other country. All the people did die of coronavirus. Just because they had underlying conditions is not a reason to say they didn't die of the virus. They did. People with pre-existing conditions are more vulnerable to being infected. It is just a fact that goes with this virus.
mollybaby: It is no more lying than any other country. All the people did die of coronavirus. Just because they had underlying conditions is not a reason to say they didn't die of the virus. They did. People with pre-existing conditions are more vulnerable to being infected. It is just a fact that goes with this virus.
Agreed Molly.
If coronavirus killed them then that is what will be on the death certificate, not that they had other underlying issues. It will be the same in the UK and anywhere else.
Seems it's not so selective now as much younger people are dying from this that had no issues.
As for YouTube as if anyone would believe that spiel.
MustangWriter: Italy is lying about their coronavirus death numbers. Even if you die of cancer, if you tested positive on coronavirus, the death is listed as death from coronavirus.
Story came from UK's Telegram, In order to read one must be able to read. NOT reading is as bad as being illiterate, which is why I posted the video, a concession for those who are illiterate.
Although a story was published in the Telegraph nowhere in that article did it say that Italy was lying.
It merely discussed the findings of registered deaths of coronavirus . There is every chance that Britain could surpass this number as the virus has not yet peaked here.
Anyone with a weakened immune system could be affected by this. I'm 80 and have an underactive thyroid which affects my autoimmune system so I have to be extremely careful.
Nebesna: Of course they are. In Germany the death rate os 0,4%.
Perhaps big pharma wants to sell our governments billions in $$$$ for vaccines "for the people". No, not greed...that couldn't be it. (follow the money?)
Who's who in the coronavirus battle CEOs from the following seven biopharmaceutical companies met with President Trump on March 2: Gilead Sciences (NASDAQ:GILD), GlaxoSmithKline (NYSE:GSK), Johnson & Johnson (NYSE:JNJ), Moderna (NASDAQ:MRNA), Pfizer (NYSE:PFE), Regeneron Pharmaceuticals (NASDAQ:REGN), and Sanofi (NASDAQ:SNY). Each of these seven companies is working on developing antiviral drugs to treat COVID-19 or vaccines to prevent the disease. A World Health Organization official stated in February that Gilead's experimental antiviral drug remdesivir appears to be the most promising candidate for treating COVID-19 right now. Gilead is currently evaluating the drug in late-stage studies. Regeneron is collaborating with the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) to develop a treatment for COVID-19. The company has worked with HHS in the past on treatments for Ebola and MERS. Johnson & Johnson is also working with HHS to identify antiviral candidates that could potentially be effective in treating COVID-19. The healthcare giant is scrambling to develop a novel coronavirus vaccine as well. All of the other drugmakers are working on experimental vaccines for the novel coronavirus. GlaxoSmithKline is partnering with Chinese biotech Clover Biopharmaceuticals on developing a vaccine. Sanofi is seeking to repurpose its experimental SARS vaccine to target the novel coronavirus. Pfizer hasn't fully jumped into the fray yet, but the big pharma company is considering working with its partner BioNTech to develop a COVID-19 vaccine.
Moderna is the smallest of the seven companies. However, it ranks among the leaders in developing a COVID-19 vaccine and plans to begin testing an experimental vaccine in humans this month.
At this point, Gilead and Moderna stand out as the two most likely winners in the race to develop COVID-19 therapies. Gilead is ahead of Regeneron in testing an antiviral treatment for COVID-19. Moderna is advancing to clinical testing of an experimental vaccine more quickly than others.
Mar 29, 2020 1:41 PM CST Is Italy is Lying About Their Coronavirus Death Numbers?
RogerandoutLondon, Greater London, England UK686 Posts
RogerandoutLondon, Greater London, England UK686 posts
MustangWriter: Perhaps big pharma wants to sell our governments billions in $$$$ for vaccines "for the people". No, not greed...that couldn't be it. (follow the money?)
Who's who in the coronavirus battle CEOs from the following seven biopharmaceutical companies met with President Trump on March 2: Gilead Sciences (NASDAQ:GILD), GlaxoSmithKline (NYSE:GSK), Johnson & Johnson (NYSE:JNJ), Moderna (NASDAQ:MRNA), Pfizer (NYSE:PFE), Regeneron Pharmaceuticals (NASDAQ:REGN), and Sanofi (NASDAQ:SNY). Each of these seven companies is working on developing antiviral drugs to treat COVID-19 or vaccines to prevent the disease. A World Health Organization official stated in February that Gilead's experimental antiviral drug remdesivir appears to be the most promising candidate for treating COVID-19 right now. Gilead is currently evaluating the drug in late-stage studies. Regeneron is collaborating with the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) to develop a treatment for COVID-19. The company has worked with HHS in the past on treatments for Ebola and MERS. Johnson & Johnson is also working with HHS to identify antiviral candidates that could potentially be effective in treating COVID-19. The healthcare giant is scrambling to develop a novel coronavirus vaccine as well. All of the other drugmakers are working on experimental vaccines for the novel coronavirus. GlaxoSmithKline is partnering with Chinese biotech Clover Biopharmaceuticals on developing a vaccine. Sanofi is seeking to repurpose its experimental SARS vaccine to target the novel coronavirus. Pfizer hasn't fully jumped into the fray yet, but the big pharma company is considering working with its partner BioNTech to develop a COVID-19 vaccine.
Moderna is the smallest of the seven companies. However, it ranks among the leaders in developing a COVID-19 vaccine and plans to begin testing an experimental vaccine in humans this month.
At this point, Gilead and Moderna stand out as the two most likely winners in the race to develop COVID-19 therapies. Gilead is ahead of Regeneron in testing an antiviral treatment for COVID-19. Moderna is advancing to clinical testing of an experimental vaccine more quickly than others.
mollybaby: It is no more lying than any other country. All the people did die of coronavirus. Just because they had underlying conditions is not a reason to say they didn't die of the virus. They did. People with pre-existing conditions are more vulnerable to being infected. It is just a fact that goes with this virus.
On top of that,if they are certified as dying from Covid19 as opposed to,say,organ failure,they don't have to do a post mortem or be enbalmed. Morgues wouldn't be equipped to store bodies in large numbers & it speeds up the burial process. Wrap them up & ship them out.
As a catholic country they usually have funerals within 2 to 3 days of the death. Imagine this country coping with its death toll . Just where do you think all these bodies have come from if not coronovirus.
As a catholic country they usually have funerals within 2 to 3 days of the death. Imagine this country coping with its death toll . Just where do you think all these bodies have come from if not coronovirus.
Funerals happen here within a day or so as well. I don't think it's too much to do with Catholicism. I think it is just in Britain there is a long wait.
Report threads that break rules, are offensive, or contain fighting. Staff may not be aware of the forum abuse, and cannot do anything about it unless you tell us about it. click to report forum abuse »
If one of the comments is offensive, please report the comment instead (there is a link in each comment to report it).
johnny cash , the man comes around
the song explains it
No wonder they nailed him to the cross