Should Muslims receive a share of the privileged status of the church of England ? (86)
galrads: I've read where more people in Britain attend mosques than the church of England. according to some figures, more muslims in England attend church once a week than Anglicans do.
According to some census, the number of Christians in England and Wales has fallen by more than 4million since 2001, while the number of non-believers more than doubled to one in four of the population. Certainly, this must mean a lot of empty church buildings.
I've read where the Church of England said that while it would allow its buildings to be used by worshippers from other Christian denominations, it could not allow them to be used for worshipping other faiths. What!!!!!! Some would call that outrageous discrimination.
Question" Given this and other supporting reasons, shouldn't Muslims receive a share of the privileged status of the church of England instead of having their places of worship attacked?
According to some census, the number of Christians in England and Wales has fallen by more than 4million since 2001, while the number of non-believers more than doubled to one in four of the population. Certainly, this must mean a lot of empty church buildings.
I've read where the Church of England said that while it would allow its buildings to be used by worshippers from other Christian denominations, it could not allow them to be used for worshipping other faiths. What!!!!!! Some would call that outrageous discrimination.
Question" Given this and other supporting reasons, shouldn't Muslims receive a share of the privileged status of the church of England instead of having their places of worship attacked?
You read somewhere? Well it was very recent as you didn't know if Muslims were or were not part of the Church of England last week!
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Religious makeup of UK in %.
No religion -50.7
Church of England-19.9
Roman Catholic-8.6
Presbyterian/Church of Scotland -2.2
Methodist-1.3
Other Protestant-1.2
Christian (no denomination)-9.3
Other Christian-0.4
Muslim-2.4
Hindu-0.9
Sikh-0.8
Judaism -0.4
Other religions-0.3
Refused / NA-0.4
No religion -50.7
Church of England-19.9
Roman Catholic-8.6
Presbyterian/Church of Scotland -2.2
Methodist-1.3
Other Protestant-1.2
Christian (no denomination)-9.3
Other Christian-0.4
Muslim-2.4
Hindu-0.9
Sikh-0.8
Judaism -0.4
Other religions-0.3
Refused / NA-0.4
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Please, tell us, what is your source of information? 
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@Gal
There are now around 3+ million Muslims in England that we know about, the largest group of them is under 5 and their population is gaining at 10 times the rate of the rest of the population. The total population of England is 53 million, so Muslims officially account for around 5-6% although there's every reason to believe that the true figure will be in excess of this.
As for giving them our churches to worship in we at least expect them to bulldoze them first. And besides, a Christian church is too pretty, whereas they need an ugly-as-sin mosque to match that generally dishevelled and dog turd appearance that Muslim communities have. You see, when you spend most of the day trying to work out where mecca is and you're in a culture that shuns materially resourceful work and promotes backwardness, the local community has a tendency to turn into a complete dump.
There are now around 3+ million Muslims in England that we know about, the largest group of them is under 5 and their population is gaining at 10 times the rate of the rest of the population. The total population of England is 53 million, so Muslims officially account for around 5-6% although there's every reason to believe that the true figure will be in excess of this.
As for giving them our churches to worship in we at least expect them to bulldoze them first. And besides, a Christian church is too pretty, whereas they need an ugly-as-sin mosque to match that generally dishevelled and dog turd appearance that Muslim communities have. You see, when you spend most of the day trying to work out where mecca is and you're in a culture that shuns materially resourceful work and promotes backwardness, the local community has a tendency to turn into a complete dump.
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Would Muslims allow Christians to worship in their Mosques? I think not eh 
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Yes, and in fact in the time of the Prophet it was a common occurrence. Mohammed himself invited Christians to use mosques and acknowledged that the same God was worshipped by both faiths.
In some mosques in Pakistan this actually occurs, still.
In some mosques in Pakistan this actually occurs, still.
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venusenvy: Would Muslims allow Christians to worship in their Mosques? I think not eh
A lot of people believe in sharing. The Church of England has a expense to maintain the beautiful, important but empty church buildings of worship which exists in most cities there.
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that sharing these wonderful buildings, along with all their related expenses, could be a very big and positive step forward to improving relations in England and easing tensions among the diverse cultures living there.
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That reminded me of something I'd forgotten..
a moslem colleague commenting that he didnt care that the Church of England had bishops in the House of Lords and nobody else did, because the Anglican's woolly-minded tea'n'biscuits liberalism and desire to try to give everyone a fair crack of the whip meant that the Bishops of the House often represented Moslem interests rather better than they might have done for themselves
a moslem colleague commenting that he didnt care that the Church of England had bishops in the House of Lords and nobody else did, because the Anglican's woolly-minded tea'n'biscuits liberalism and desire to try to give everyone a fair crack of the whip meant that the Bishops of the House often represented Moslem interests rather better than they might have done for themselves
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If I understand it correctly, muslims believe in God and in Jesus.
Muhammed is just an additional prophet.
Therefore I think there should be no problem for muslims to attend christian serwises
Muhammed is just an additional prophet.
Therefore I think there should be no problem for muslims to attend christian serwises
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is the Site goofing up for anyone else too,like having problems to reply or quote directly to a Post?
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A five-building mosque is being built on 15 acres in Lanham, Maryland, for the purpose of "increasing Islamist influence in America." The massive, $100 million Islamic center is being built by the government of Turkey, working closely with the Muslim Brotherhood. The Muslim Brotherhood has as its stated goals the destruction of and elimination of Western civilization from within and the establishment of a global caliphate (Islamist government). Also, the Muslim Brotherhood is the parent organization of the Muslim terrorist organizations al Quaeda and Hamas. Incidentally, Turkey, Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Erdogan, the Muslim Brotherhood, and the new Islamist center, located 12 miles from the U.S. capital, all have the approval and support of President Barack Obama.
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As I don't have a clue of the rules in England, the laws that govern this type of thing. I just can't say in accordance to any educated knowledge.
AS for what I believe personally? I tend to feel that a church should stick to what they are teaching. Even using a church for things like bake sales and other festivities is something I was never really so much agreeable with. Of course I am the minority in this but it is just the way I was raised and it kinda stuck. I don't even go to church but I think if i did I would not want the building used to worship other ideals in the down time, I think I would see that place as a place devoted to worshiping or whatever that particular group does and keep it at that.
If it was a case of selling real estate I suppose that once sold it would not be what it was before so the new owners would do what they would.
As far as this particular group and the controversy that goes along I would be weary of sharing a building that I cared about as was said above in reference to those places of worship being attacked.
But as I said earlier I do not know what the standard in England is. Being naive I used to think that those in England followed the Church of the Country and there was no acceptations. I suppose that is not the case. But I think that in the past there have been more than a few that did operate their governments in that way, didn't they?
AS for what I believe personally? I tend to feel that a church should stick to what they are teaching. Even using a church for things like bake sales and other festivities is something I was never really so much agreeable with. Of course I am the minority in this but it is just the way I was raised and it kinda stuck. I don't even go to church but I think if i did I would not want the building used to worship other ideals in the down time, I think I would see that place as a place devoted to worshiping or whatever that particular group does and keep it at that.
If it was a case of selling real estate I suppose that once sold it would not be what it was before so the new owners would do what they would.
As far as this particular group and the controversy that goes along I would be weary of sharing a building that I cared about as was said above in reference to those places of worship being attacked.
But as I said earlier I do not know what the standard in England is. Being naive I used to think that those in England followed the Church of the Country and there was no acceptations. I suppose that is not the case. But I think that in the past there have been more than a few that did operate their governments in that way, didn't they?
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Conrad73: is the Site goofing up for anyone else too,like having problems to reply or quote directly to a Post?
I experienced this problem earlier today but things seem to be working correctly now.
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reinstalled my Browser and it went away,now it is back!
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Nikogas: As I don't have a clue of the rules in England, the laws that govern this type of thing. I just can't say in accordance to any educated knowledge.
AS for what I believe personally? I tend to feel that a church should stick to what they are teaching. Even using a church for things like bake sales and other festivities is something I was never really so much agreeable with. Of course I am the minority in this but it is just the way I was raised and it kinda stuck. I don't even go to church but I think if i did I would not want the building used to worship other ideals in the down time, I think I would see that place as a place devoted to worshiping or whatever that particular group does and keep it at that.
If it was a case of selling real estate I suppose that once sold it would not be what it was before so the new owners would do what they would.
As far as this particular group and the controversy that goes along I would be weary of sharing a building that I cared about as was said above in reference to those places of worship being attacked.
But as I said earlier I do not know what the standard in England is. Being naive I used to think that those in England followed the Church of the Country and there was no acceptations. I suppose that is not the case. But I think that in the past there have been more than a few that did operate their governments in that way, didn't they?
AS for what I believe personally? I tend to feel that a church should stick to what they are teaching. Even using a church for things like bake sales and other festivities is something I was never really so much agreeable with. Of course I am the minority in this but it is just the way I was raised and it kinda stuck. I don't even go to church but I think if i did I would not want the building used to worship other ideals in the down time, I think I would see that place as a place devoted to worshiping or whatever that particular group does and keep it at that.
If it was a case of selling real estate I suppose that once sold it would not be what it was before so the new owners would do what they would.
As far as this particular group and the controversy that goes along I would be weary of sharing a building that I cared about as was said above in reference to those places of worship being attacked.
But as I said earlier I do not know what the standard in England is. Being naive I used to think that those in England followed the Church of the Country and there was no acceptations. I suppose that is not the case. But I think that in the past there have been more than a few that did operate their governments in that way, didn't they?
I see many benefits for everyone if the Church of England would share properties that are unused and deteriorating.. Maintaining unused or unoccupied properties makes no sense to me
If no other benefit is seen by these building being used by others (at other's expense) the occupant would maintain them and the English wouldn't be throwing smoke grenades in them or incur other threats..... I would think.
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Conrad73: reinstalled my Browser and it went away,now it is back!
seems I can quote my own self!
No Religions should have the prominence in Society,and even have political support like they have these days!
That holds good for ANY Major Religion!
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The Church of England is extremely wealthy,and in fact owns and leases out some of the most expensive property in the most exclusive patrs of London.
The reason many of the smaller churches are no longer used is because many of them were in small villages,and small towns.
Many,many years ago,every small town or village had a church,as people worshiped more,and people couldnt travel to nieghbouring churches.
The Church of England sell these churches off,either for convertion to houses,or to building companies for developement.
If any of these were "shared",the problem would still be the same,as there is no longer the population,of any religion to fill a church.
Most of the village pubs,post offices,bus services,schools have met the same fate.
Over many years,due to work,people have moved closer to where the work is,ie,major towns or cities.
The reason many of the smaller churches are no longer used is because many of them were in small villages,and small towns.
Many,many years ago,every small town or village had a church,as people worshiped more,and people couldnt travel to nieghbouring churches.
The Church of England sell these churches off,either for convertion to houses,or to building companies for developement.
If any of these were "shared",the problem would still be the same,as there is no longer the population,of any religion to fill a church.
Most of the village pubs,post offices,bus services,schools have met the same fate.
Over many years,due to work,people have moved closer to where the work is,ie,major towns or cities.
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That reminded me of something I'd forgotten..
a moslem colleague commenting that he didnt care that the Church of England had bishops in the House of Lords and nobody else did, because the Anglican's woolly-minded tea'n'biscuits liberalism and desire to try to give everyone a fair crack of the whip meant that the Bishops of the House often represented Moslem interests rather better than they might have done for themselves
a moslem colleague commenting that he didnt care that the Church of England had bishops in the House of Lords and nobody else did, because the Anglican's woolly-minded tea'n'biscuits liberalism and desire to try to give everyone a fair crack of the whip meant that the Bishops of the House often represented Moslem interests rather better than they might have done for themselves
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Adalstef: If I understand it correctly, muslims believe in God and in Jesus.
Muhammed is just an additional prophet.
Therefore I think there should be no problem for muslims to attend christian serwises
Muhammed is just an additional prophet.
Therefore I think there should be no problem for muslims to attend christian serwises
I don't have a strong opinion on this thread in general. However.... theologically the Christian Character of God is a bit different to the Islamic Character of God. Maybe another day.
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Re;
"Also, the Muslim Brotherhood is the parent organization of the Muslim terrorist organizations al Quaeda and Hamas. Incidentally, Turkey, Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Erdogan, the Muslim Brotherhood, and the new Islamist center, located 12 miles from the U.S. capital, all have the approval and support of President Barack Obama."
Not really true ..
The Brotherhood is certainly among the oldest Islamist movements but its a far more pragmatic case than modern 'islamic terror'. They make a lot of noise but have never been that violent.
I dont doubt that the US was pleased to see a decisive victory of sorts in the Egyptian elections, but at the same time I bet they were gritting their teeth with their promises of support: After so many years of war 'in the name of representative government' they'dhave been shown as the world's greatest hypocrites to turn against a regime with a mandate from the people.
Ergogan is an interesting point - he's more in the line of thinking of the Brotherhood than of the Wahhabist or Salafist extremists and oddly, a very Pro-European Union leader, which is totally contrary to most KIslamist viewpoint
Turkey has a weird, unique, massively culturally affected history. I think it produces uniquely turkish politicians as a result.
I still dont know what to make of Erdogan.
He sees himself as a revising Ataturk, others see him as a bully dressed as a moderate. He sees everyone as a potential enemy.
"Also, the Muslim Brotherhood is the parent organization of the Muslim terrorist organizations al Quaeda and Hamas. Incidentally, Turkey, Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Erdogan, the Muslim Brotherhood, and the new Islamist center, located 12 miles from the U.S. capital, all have the approval and support of President Barack Obama."
Not really true ..
The Brotherhood is certainly among the oldest Islamist movements but its a far more pragmatic case than modern 'islamic terror'. They make a lot of noise but have never been that violent.
I dont doubt that the US was pleased to see a decisive victory of sorts in the Egyptian elections, but at the same time I bet they were gritting their teeth with their promises of support: After so many years of war 'in the name of representative government' they'dhave been shown as the world's greatest hypocrites to turn against a regime with a mandate from the people.
Ergogan is an interesting point - he's more in the line of thinking of the Brotherhood than of the Wahhabist or Salafist extremists and oddly, a very Pro-European Union leader, which is totally contrary to most KIslamist viewpoint
Turkey has a weird, unique, massively culturally affected history. I think it produces uniquely turkish politicians as a result.
I still dont know what to make of Erdogan.
He sees himself as a revising Ataturk, others see him as a bully dressed as a moderate. He sees everyone as a potential enemy.
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I can't quote you Cmd.. but Erdogan's pro-EU stance is a ruse. Anyone in Turkey will tell you that. He's playing out the EU card knowing full well that it won't work to get the result that he wants, domestically.
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Erdogan,is a good politician for his country.he made a good economy and made Turkey more stronger.But his bad side is him being too religious.Thats what most Turkish people dont like about him.Ataturk brought modernism and secularism to the country,but now he is taken Turkey back to religious state.
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Erdogan quoted a Turkish Writer:
Democracy is only the Train,which we ride to our Destination;
The Mosques are our Barracks;
The Minarets our Bayonets;
The Domes our Helmets;
The Believers our Soldiers!
Got him into some hot water,but now he's fixed the situation in his favor!
The Wannabe Future Caliph!
Democracy is only the Train,which we ride to our Destination;
The Mosques are our Barracks;
The Minarets our Bayonets;
The Domes our Helmets;
The Believers our Soldiers!
Got him into some hot water,but now he's fixed the situation in his favor!
The Wannabe Future Caliph!
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MADDOG69: I can't quote you Cmd.. but Erdogan's pro-EU stance is a ruse. Anyone in Turkey will tell you that. He's playing out the EU card knowing full well that it won't work to get the result that he wants, domestically.
btw,he doesnt care about EU anymore.they dont have any crisis like EU do today.and he said if they want EU remain a christian club then let it be.Now he is more interested in Turan.which is Russias nightmare------ This poll is Archived ------
Ataturk was authoritarian too - banning the fez, prosecuting wearers, forcing the whole country to change its way of writing (Latin letters over Arabic script).
Ataturk held a power so strongly derived from his perceived view of the wishes and needs of the people that none dared face him down. I believe that Erdogan sees himself as his namesake (the Falcon), commanding height above Turkey and power over it.
Which, as you;ve said, he would use very differently. I'm sure we'd all be happier with a new Secular Ataturk, if we cant see a sensible democratic leader in Ankara.
As for the EU thing - yes, partly just a card he plays (he knows full well that his Islamic agenda isnt really compatible with the European declaration of human rights) - but I think also partly an Ataturk-esque pragmatism that as major trading partners, Europe is much less trouble to deal with than either the Russians or the Islamic Middle East
Ataturk held a power so strongly derived from his perceived view of the wishes and needs of the people that none dared face him down. I believe that Erdogan sees himself as his namesake (the Falcon), commanding height above Turkey and power over it.
Which, as you;ve said, he would use very differently. I'm sure we'd all be happier with a new Secular Ataturk, if we cant see a sensible democratic leader in Ankara.
As for the EU thing - yes, partly just a card he plays (he knows full well that his Islamic agenda isnt really compatible with the European declaration of human rights) - but I think also partly an Ataturk-esque pragmatism that as major trading partners, Europe is much less trouble to deal with than either the Russians or the Islamic Middle East
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CmdrMercutio: Ataturk was authoritarian too - banning the fez, prosecuting wearers, forcing the whole country to change its way of writing (Latin letters over Arabic script).
Ataturk held a power so strongly derived from his perceived view of the wishes and needs of the people that none dared face him down. I believe that Erdogan sees himself as his namesake (the Falcon), commanding height above Turkey and power over it.
Which, as you;ve said, he would use very differently. I'm sure we'd all be happier with a new Secular Ataturk, if we cant see a sensible democratic leader in Ankara.
As for the EU thing - yes, partly just a card he plays (he knows full well that his Islamic agenda isnt really compatible with the European declaration of human rights) - but I think also partly an Ataturk-esque pragmatism that as major trading partners, Europe is much less trouble to deal with than either the Russians or the Islamic Middle East
I wouldnt blame Ataturk for being authorian. at that time Turkey really needed it.Remember before Ataturk Turkey was extremly religious country.And it wasnt that easy to moderate religious people.He has done what he had too.no any new Turkish leader could be compared with him.Ataturk held a power so strongly derived from his perceived view of the wishes and needs of the people that none dared face him down. I believe that Erdogan sees himself as his namesake (the Falcon), commanding height above Turkey and power over it.
Which, as you;ve said, he would use very differently. I'm sure we'd all be happier with a new Secular Ataturk, if we cant see a sensible democratic leader in Ankara.
As for the EU thing - yes, partly just a card he plays (he knows full well that his Islamic agenda isnt really compatible with the European declaration of human rights) - but I think also partly an Ataturk-esque pragmatism that as major trading partners, Europe is much less trouble to deal with than either the Russians or the Islamic Middle East
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whatever Atatürk was,he was the Father of modern,secular Turkey,that same Country Erdogan is hellbent to lead back into the Dark Ages!
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MADDOG69: I don't have a strong opinion on this thread in general. However.... theologically the Christian Character of God is a bit different to the Islamic Character of God. Maybe another day.
Really? it appears that God's character is quite common in these Religions and includes Goodness, Holiness, Just, Knowing etc....
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Created: Jul 2013
Last Viewed: Apr 27
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Should Muslims receive a share of the privileged status of the church of England ?(Vote Below)
According to some census, the number of Christians in England and Wales has fallen by more than 4million since 2001, while the number of non-believers more than doubled to one in four of the population. Certainly, this must mean a lot of empty church buildings.
I've read where the Church of England said that while it would allow its buildings to be used by worshippers from other Christian denominations, it could not allow them to be used for worshipping other faiths. What!!!!!! Some would call that outrageous discrimination.
Question" Given this and other supporting reasons, shouldn't Muslims receive a share of the privileged status of the church of England instead of having their places of worship attacked?