Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever (826)

Oct 14, 2008 9:09 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
StressFree
StressFreeStressFreesmall city, Kalmar Sweden176 Threads 16 Polls 8,986 Posts
Indyfella: You must watch CNN


Naw, I have friends back home who got a bit out of hand with putting things they could not really afford on their credit card. I know one friend who had a 80,000+ salary and lost his homeuh oh He thought he was a high roller even in high school.
Oct 14, 2008 9:10 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
Sparky55
Sparky55Sparky55Somewhere, Afghanistan48 Threads 1 Polls 2,678 Posts
Indyfella: I guess I'll just have to wait on DUDE to answer that highly technical question.


You did leave off the part where a good many of that 40% are going to actually get a check every year. So no taxes and a check. What a great incentive for people to improve their own economic situation. Im sure this may throuw in a few fractions and decimals

This reminds me of a very old joke concerning the Matel toy company. Seems they were trying to and successfully developed what they called the welfare doll. You simply wound it up and it didn't work. Pretty damn simple project and so similar to the Obama economic plan that I fear legal action against him for copyright infringement. laugh
Oct 14, 2008 9:10 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
Indyfella
IndyfellaIndyfellaindianapolis, Indiana USA152 Threads 8 Polls 18,150 Posts
StressFree: Naw, I have friends back home who got a bit out of hand with putting things they could not really afford on their credit card. I know one friend who had a 80,000+ salary and lost his home He thought he was a high roller even in high school.



It's not uncommon. I under-bought my home 3 years ago...with the thought that good times might not always be good. Who knows, I may win in the end. thumbs up
Oct 14, 2008 9:11 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
agman
agmanagmanEagle, Idaho USA3,145 Posts
WhatUwish4: Maybe Agman can answer it???


I can, but it might blow your mind. devil
Oct 14, 2008 9:11 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
Indyfella
IndyfellaIndyfellaindianapolis, Indiana USA152 Threads 8 Polls 18,150 Posts
Sparky55: You did leave off the part where a good many of that 40% are going to actually get a check every year. So no taxes and a check. What a great incentive for people to improve their own economic situation. Im sure this may throuw in a few fractions and decimals

This reminds me of a very old joke concerning the Matel toy company. Seems they were trying to and successfully developed what they called the welfare doll. You simply wound it up and it didn't work. Pretty damn simple project and so similar to the Obama economic plan that I fear legal action against him for copyright infringement.
rolling on the floor laughing Good one rolling on the floor laughing
Oct 14, 2008 9:12 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
WhatUwish4
WhatUwish4WhatUwish4St. Augustine, Florida USA2 Threads 7,986 Posts
Indyfella: Or....... our "Obama Girl"


Which one, Indy? From what I can tell you have a whole bevy of women far smarter and more accomplished than Sarah...How will you choose?
moping moping moping
Oct 14, 2008 9:13 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
Indyfella
IndyfellaIndyfellaindianapolis, Indiana USA152 Threads 8 Polls 18,150 Posts
StressFree: Naw, I have friends back home who got a bit out of hand with putting things they could not really afford on their credit card. I know one friend who had a 80,000+ salary and lost his home He thought he was a high roller even in high school.



Sorry, but my "ooze the empathy" level is low tonight.....
Oct 14, 2008 9:13 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
Indyfella
IndyfellaIndyfellaindianapolis, Indiana USA152 Threads 8 Polls 18,150 Posts
WhatUwish4: Which one, Indy? From what I can tell you have a whole bevy of women far smarter and more accomplished than Sarah...How will you choose?



I'm not really smart, but I can detect sarcasm.
Oct 14, 2008 9:14 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
Indyfella
IndyfellaIndyfellaindianapolis, Indiana USA152 Threads 8 Polls 18,150 Posts
WhatUwish4: Which one, Indy? From what I can tell you have a whole bevy of women far smarter and more accomplished than Sarah...How will you choose?
laugh
Oct 14, 2008 9:15 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
StressFree
StressFreeStressFreesmall city, Kalmar Sweden176 Threads 16 Polls 8,986 Posts
Sparky55: You did leave off the part where a good many of that 40% are going to actually get a check every year. So no taxes and a check. What a great incentive for people to improve their own economic situation. Im sure this may throuw in a few fractions and decimals



It's just a small fraction of your tax money to help out the poor. And the spread the wealth concept by Obama will help working class families in much more ways than McCains reduced tax cuts.

Also, I have not heard one thing about how McCain is going to improve the educational system. I think tax money to go towards that would be well spent.
Oct 14, 2008 9:15 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
WhatUwish4
WhatUwish4WhatUwish4St. Augustine, Florida USA2 Threads 7,986 Posts
No sarcasm...I just think it's going to be really tough picking someone out of such a lofty bunch.
laugh laugh
Oct 14, 2008 9:16 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
agman
agmanagmanEagle, Idaho USA3,145 Posts
Indyfella: Or....... our "Obama Girl"


Forget Obama Girl, now the total is greater than the sum of the
parts. So we give the poor the diffierence between the total and
the sum of the parts. Thereby, everybody has what they ever had
and the poor is richer. Its really very simple. grin
Oct 14, 2008 9:16 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
WhatUwish4
WhatUwish4WhatUwish4St. Augustine, Florida USA2 Threads 7,986 Posts
StressFree: It's just a small fraction of your tax money to help out the poor. And the spread the wealth concept by Obama will help working class families in much more ways than McCains reduced tax cuts.

Also, I have not heard one thing about how McCain is going to improve the educational system. I think tax money to go towards that would be well spent.


Have you looked?
Oct 14, 2008 9:20 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
WhatUwish4
WhatUwish4WhatUwish4St. Augustine, Florida USA2 Threads 7,986 Posts
Encourage Alternative Certification Methods That Open The Door For Highly Motivated Teachers To Enter The Field. John McCain will devote five percent of Title II funding to states to recruit teachers who graduate in the top 25 percent of their class or who participate in an alternative teacher recruitment program such as Teach for America, the New York City Teaching Fellowship Program, the New Teacher Project, or excellent university initiatives.

Provide Bonuses For Teachers Who Locate In Underperforming Schools And Demonstrate Strong Leadership As Measured By Student Improvement. John McCain will devote 60 percent of Title II funding for incentive bonuses for high performing teachers to locate in the most challenging educational settings, for teachers to teach subjects like math and science, and for teachers who demonstrate student improvement. Payments will be made directly to teachers. Funds should also be devoted to provide performance bonuses to teachers who raise student achievement and enhance the school-wide learning environment. Principals may also consider other issues in addition to test scores such as peer evaluations, student subgroup improvements, or being removed from the state's "in need of improvement" list.

Provide Funding For Needed Professional Teacher Development. Where federal funds are involved, teacher development money should be used to enhance the ability of teachers to perform in today's technology driven environment. We need to provide teachers with high quality professional development opportunities with a primary focus on instructional strategies that address the academic needs of their students. The first 35 percent of Title II funding would be directed to the school level so principals and teachers could focus these resources on the specific needs of their schools.

John McCain Believes We Must Empower School Principals With Greater Control Over Spending. Funding cannot be effectively apportioned in Washington, but it shouldn't be a state-level official or district bureaucrat either. The money must be controlled by the leader we hold accountable: the school principal with a single criterion to raise student achievement.
Oct 14, 2008 9:20 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
StressFree
StressFreeStressFreesmall city, Kalmar Sweden176 Threads 16 Polls 8,986 Posts
Indyfella: It's not uncommon. I under-bought my home 3 years ago...with the thought that good times might not always be good. Who knows, I may win in the end.


Eventually you will win, but that would mean selling your home if you intend to cash in. Smart thinking Indy though on under buying your home. thumbs up

The neighborhood I grew up in San Jose, I think like maybe 30 percent of the original neighborhood is left. Everybody cashed in between 99-02. And now the new residents in my old neighborhood are simply stuck or trying to see for buying those homes at insane prices back in 99-02. I don't any quick turn around.
Oct 14, 2008 9:20 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
WhatUwish4
WhatUwish4WhatUwish4St. Augustine, Florida USA2 Threads 7,986 Posts
John McCain Will Make Real The Promise Of NCLB By Giving Parents Greater Choice. Choice is the best way to protect children against a failing bureaucracy. But parents must have more control over the money.

John McCain Will Expand The D.C. Opportunity Scholarship Program. In our nation's capital, we have seen the dramatic benefits of giving parents control of money and choices. The Opportunity Scholarship program serves more than 1,900 students from families with an average income of $23,000 a year. More than 7,000 more families have applied for that program. The budget for the Opportunity Scholarships is currently $13 million. John McCain believes that this extremely successful program should expand to at least $20 million benefiting nearly a thousand more families.

John McCain Will Ensure Children Struggling To Meet State Standards Will Have Immediate Access To High Quality Tutoring Programs. Local school districts can certify education service providers but providers can also bypass the local bureaucracy and receive direct federal certification. Education service providers can then market directly to parents. Title I money will be directed straight to the provider.

John McCain Supports Expanding Virtual Learning By Reforming The "Enhancing Education Through Technology Program." John McCain will target $500 million in current federal funds to build new virtual schools and support the development of online course offerings for students. These courses may be for regular coursework, for enhancement, or for dual enrollment into college.

John McCain Will Allocate $250 Million Through A Competitive Grant Program To Support States That Commit To Expanding Online Education Opportunities. States can use these funds to build virtual math and science academies to help expand the availability of AP Math, Science, and Computer Sciences courses, online tutoring support for students in traditional schools, and foreign language courses.

John McCain Will Offer $250 Million For Digital Passport Scholarships To Help Students Pay For Online Tutors Or Enroll In Virtual Schools. Low-income students will be eligible to receive up to $4,000 to enroll in an online course, SAT/ACT prep course, credit recovery or tutoring services offered by a virtual provider. Providers could range from other public schools, virtual charter schools, home school parents utilizing virtual schooling resources or district or state sponsored virtual schools. The Department of Education would competitively award the funds to a national scholarship administrator who would manage the student applications, monitoring, and evaluation of providers.
Oct 14, 2008 9:21 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
Indyfella
IndyfellaIndyfellaindianapolis, Indiana USA152 Threads 8 Polls 18,150 Posts
StressFree: It's just a small fraction of your tax money to help out the poor. And the spread the wealth concept by Obama will help working class families in much more ways than McCains reduced tax cuts.

Also, I have not heard one thing about how McCain is going to improve the educational system. I think tax money to go towards that would be well spent.



The best thing he could do for education is to cut spending. It soars every year and for what?
Oct 14, 2008 9:21 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
agman
agmanagmanEagle, Idaho USA3,145 Posts
McCain that old fudder. Wants to give a capital gains cut to the only
people eligible would be the super rich. Everybody else is losing
their money as the stocks fall.
rolling on the floor laughing
Oct 14, 2008 9:21 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
Skybow
SkybowSkybowapple valley, California USA4 Threads 1,146 Posts
Corperate tax cuts and welfare is so much more productive don't you guy's think, in a trickle down kind of a way?
Oct 14, 2008 9:26 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
Indyfella
IndyfellaIndyfellaindianapolis, Indiana USA152 Threads 8 Polls 18,150 Posts
agman: McCain that old fudder. Wants to give a capital gains cut to the only
people eligible would be the super rich. Everybody else is losing
their money as the stocks fall.


Just a hunch...but I doubt there will be many "capital gains" this year...
Oct 14, 2008 9:30 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
StressFree
StressFreeStressFreesmall city, Kalmar Sweden176 Threads 16 Polls 8,986 Posts
Indyfella: The best thing he could do for education is to cut spending. It soars every year and for what?


More than likely for directing resources and ill advised programs that actually do not improve the educational system in the sense of how and what these kids learn in school. The educational system is the foundation for a better society. I think it should get the money it deserves, but a more emphasis on what they learn and how they learn to become more aware and respectful in society.

Judging by whatuwish4's post on McCain's educational policy, I hate to say that it's just the same formula of pumping material resources into the system. I shall go to McCain's website and learn more and compare it to Obama's.

Thanks for the post btw whatuwish4.wave
Oct 14, 2008 9:32 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
StressFree
StressFreeStressFreesmall city, Kalmar Sweden176 Threads 16 Polls 8,986 Posts
Skybow: Corperate tax cuts and welfare is so much more productive don't you guy's think, in a trickle down kind of a way?


How exactly?
Oct 14, 2008 9:34 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
WhatUwish4
WhatUwish4WhatUwish4St. Augustine, Florida USA2 Threads 7,986 Posts
StressFree: More than likely for directing resources and ill advised programs that actually do not improve the educational system in the sense of how and what these kids learn in school. The educational system is the foundation for a better society. I think it should get the money it deserves, but a more emphasis on what they learn and how they learn to become more aware and respectful in society.

Judging by whatuwish4's post on McCain's educational policy, I hate to say that it's just the same formula of pumping material resources into the system. I shall go to McCain's website and learn more and compare it to Obama's.

Thanks for the post btw whatuwish4.


Let me save you the trip, Stress..
That WAS from McCain's website!
wave wave
Oct 14, 2008 9:36 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
Sparky55
Sparky55Sparky55Somewhere, Afghanistan48 Threads 1 Polls 2,678 Posts
StressFree: It's just a small fraction of your tax money to help out the poor. And the spread the wealth concept by Obama will help working class families in much more ways than McCains reduced tax cuts.

Also, I have not heard one thing about how McCain is going to improve the educational system. I think tax money to go towards that would be well spent.


Stress, I grew up with the clear understanding there were no free things in this world. Wealth is not given, it is earned. While I believe there is a time to assist those less fortunate, i also believe those less fortunate have an obligation to improve themselves and live within their means. I lived from payday to payday for many years, often times I went without but I did make it. If I can then they can too.

As far as education goes, I agree. Some additional or redistribution of tax money could really help with education. I don't know what either candidate is planning to do with education and I have my doubts they really have a plan that they can economically and realistically support.

Whatever we do, we really need to get back to the basics, resist coddling these kids, provide better pay to our teachers, demand parental involvement and grade these kids accurately instead of just running them through the system. Way too many illiterate high school graduates. Finally, those special interests groups need to stay out of the school system and the fed or state governments should provide zero funds for "schools" with political and/or religeous agendas/curriculum.
Oct 14, 2008 9:40 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
Skybow
SkybowSkybowapple valley, California USA4 Threads 1,146 Posts
StressFree: How exactly?


Well where is the outrage when we are bailing out wall street? When corperate tax cuts are given while we run a war on credit cards? When bad banking practices de-stablize our economy world economy?

I tell you its really giving the tac cuts to the middle class and below that's going to kill us in the end, oh wait maybe it will help them so much they stop killing themselves and their familys while their homes are being taken from them.
Oct 14, 2008 10:04 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
StressFree
StressFreeStressFreesmall city, Kalmar Sweden176 Threads 16 Polls 8,986 Posts
Sparky55: Stress, I grew up with the clear understanding there were no free things in this world. Wealth is not given, it is earned. While I believe there is a time to assist those less fortunate, i also believe those less fortunate have an obligation to improve themselves and live within their means. I lived from payday to payday for many years, often times I went without but I did make it. If I can then they can too.

As far as education goes, I agree. Some additional or redistribution of tax money could really help with education. I don't know what either candidate is planning to do with education and I have my doubts they really have a plan that they can economically and realistically support.

Whatever we do, we really need to get back to the basics, resist coddling these kids, provide better pay to our teachers, demand parental involvement and grade these kids accurately instead of just running them through the system. Way too many illiterate high school graduates. Finally, those special interests groups need to stay out of the school system and the fed or state governments should provide zero funds for "schools" with political and/or religeous agendas/curriculum.


Yes, I am with you. Wealth is earned. My point is that the poor will not become wealthy by government handouts via taxes, but be assisted with responsibility to get them going in the right direction so we can improve America from the ground up on many levels.

I totally understand those who endured the tough times of living payday to payday and fought to improve their standard of living, but I think that those who fight payday to payday should have at least some assistance from the government to make life a bit easier but by no means a paradise. That's would be tax money going around and spreading the wealth to those who will probably never be rich but not really lose one dime in the end.
Oct 14, 2008 10:12 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
StressFree
StressFreeStressFreesmall city, Kalmar Sweden176 Threads 16 Polls 8,986 Posts
Skybow: Well where is the outrage when we are bailing out wall street? When corperate tax cuts are given while we run a war on credit cards? When bad banking practices de-stablize our economy world economy?

I tell you its really giving the tac cuts to the middle class and below that's going to kill us in the end, oh wait maybe it will help them so much they stop killing themselves and their familys while their homes are being taken from them.


I know, maybe that outrage will be expressed on election day. And I am not saying it's Bush's fault or the republicans fault by any means.

I totally agree that giving tax cuts to the middle class and below is flat out stupid. That money would be much more beneficial by going to reduced daycare, health care, fixing the educational system, reduced tuition for students etc.
The middle class has demonstrated that they love to spend way beyond their means, and tax cuts will only help them do that. There is a tricky balance in there as far as maintaining a high standard of living, paying higher taxes, still having good money to spend as a consumer, and having a quality educational system. Ah, and so much more...I can go on forever.
Oct 14, 2008 10:26 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
Skybow
SkybowSkybowapple valley, California USA4 Threads 1,146 Posts
StressFree: I know, maybe that outrage will be expressed on election day. And I am not saying it's Bush's fault or the republicans fault by any means.

I totally agree that giving tax cuts to the middle class and below is flat out stupid. That money would be much more beneficial by going to reduced daycare, health care, fixing the educational system, reduced tuition for students etc.
The middle class has demonstrated that they love to spend way beyond their means, and tax cuts will only help them do that. There is a tricky balance in there as far as maintaining a high standard of living, paying higher taxes, still having good money to spend as a consumer, and having a quality educational system. Ah, and so much more...I can go on forever.


I disagree, I don't know if you've noticed but many people who use to be middle class aren't anymore. They are loosing their homes, loosing their jobs and loosing all hope. They need jobs, and need help right now.

The greed and entitlement and tax cuts to the wealthy have to be stopped. The bad lending practices of the world banking system (including the US) have to stop. And running wars on credit cards have to stop. That is what has destablized our economy.
Oct 14, 2008 10:43 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
Sparky55
Sparky55Sparky55Somewhere, Afghanistan48 Threads 1 Polls 2,678 Posts
StressFree: Yes, I am with you. Wealth is earned. My point is that the poor will not become wealthy by government handouts via taxes, but be assisted with responsibility to get them going in the right direction so we can improve America from the ground up on many levels.

I totally understand those who endured the tough times of living payday to payday and fought to improve their standard of living, but I think that those who fight payday to payday should have at least some assistance from the government to make life a bit easier but by no means a paradise. That's would be tax money going around and spreading the wealth to those who will probably never be rich but not really lose one dime in the end.


Stress, the thing is, the assistance you mention is already available and to a much greater extent than it was when I was coming up.. There's the normal red tape ofcourse but the help's there.

I really think much of the problem is our lack of ability to live within our means. Earlier in this thread I believe Bob mentioned underbuying his house. I did the same thing. But a lot of folks with the keeping up with the Jones' mentality from the middle class overextended themselves along with a greater number of people from lower income classes doing the same thing. Certainly our political leadership from all parties have exaserbated this but I believe our own greed and lust for things with an "I want it now attitude" is the root cause. I know there are some good people that are suffereing because no fault of their own but I also believe a majority of these loans were bad to start with.
Oct 14, 2008 11:11 PM CST Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever
StressFree
StressFreeStressFreesmall city, Kalmar Sweden176 Threads 16 Polls 8,986 Posts
Skybow: Believe me the ones talking like that aren't homeless or loosing their home. They aren't hungry and can't feed their children and they mostly believe what they are saying from a fairly safe bubble of reality.


That's a good sign if I understand you correctly. That more and more people want change to the society and government in America that pretty much only favors the wealthy even if they are well off. Was that what you were saying?

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