Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin/Who ever (826)

Barack Obama and John McCain have clashed over their economic plans and other issues in a fractious final TV debate before the US presidential poll.

In a series of testy exchanges, Mr McCain accused Mr Obama of lying and of having ties to a domestic "terrorist".

Mr McCain also accused his Democratic rival of wanting to raise taxes.

Mr Obama sought to link Mr McCain with President Bush and said he was running a negative campaign. Immediate voter polls found Mr Obama came out on top.

A CNN poll of people watching Wednesday's debate said Mr Obama won by 58% to 31%, while a CBS survey found the Democrat the winner by 53% to 22%.

A poll of undecided independent voters by US network Fox also suggested Mr Obama was the victor.




Who is 'Joe the plumber'?

Mr McCain's reference to Mr Obama's association with Bill Ayers, once a member of a US group that waged a violent campaign against the Vietnam War, continued the main Republican line of attack from the past 10 days.

Mr Obama rejected Mr McCain's criticism over Mr Ayers - now a university professor with whom he has served on a charity board - pointing out that he had been a child at the time of Mr Ayers' radical activities.

"Mr Ayers is not involved in my campaign," he said.

Mr McCain, senator for Arizona, also accused Mr Obama of big spending on attack ads.

The Illinois senator responded that 100% of Mr McCain's political adverts had been negative and that voters were more interested at this point in how the candidates planned to fix the economy.

'Spread the wealth'

The 90-minute debate, held at Hofstra University in Long Island, New York, with moderator Bob Schieffer of CBS News, elicited more direct confrontations between the candidates than their two previous encounters.

Again, McCain seems harsher, but is this not what debating is all about?

BBC North America editor Justin Webb


Read Justin's thoughts in full
Blow by blow: McCain v Obama
Send us your comments

Both candidates sought to explain how they would make their promised economic packages and spending plans fit with a rising US budget deficit.

Mr McCain said he would be able to balance the federal budget by cutting wasteful spending and urged voters to compare the records of the two candidates.

He used the example of "Joe the plumber" from Ohio who expressed concern about what Mr Obama's tax plans might mean for his business after meeting the Democrat at the weekend.

Mr Obama rejected Mr McCain's charge that he planned to raise taxes on higher earners to "spread the wealth around", saying that "nobody likes taxes" but that investment in the economy was necessary.


The debate produced some memorable moments


Enlarge Image


Mr McCain sought to fight back against Mr Obama's attempt to link him to the policies of the Bush administration.

"Senator Obama, I am not President Bush. If you wanted to run against President Bush, you should have run four years ago," he said.

Mr Obama countered: "If I have occasionally mistaken your policies for George Bush's policies, it's because on the core economic issues that matter to the American people, on tax policy, on energy policy, on spending priorities you have been a vigorous supporter of President Bush."

The two candidates also traded blows over their policies on energy.

While Mr Obama spoke about his support for alternative energy sources and the need for the US to build highly fuel efficient cars, Mr McCain voiced his backing for offshore drilling and nuclear power.



BBC News

Quite possible, since most of them have an aversion to W O R K!


Got to run Agman... Going riding today!

I think it only matters if he won it in your heart.

Morning everyone

Here's a nice overview of the two candidates and their economic plans. From the Heritage foundation this morning...

Growth (McCain) Vs. Redistribution (Obama)

The difference between Obama and McCain on taxes is that where the two do propose minor changes, Obama wants to use the tax code to redistribute wealth while McCain wants to use the tax code to create it.

The Bush tax cuts Obama and McCain want to preserve include lower tax rates for most income brackets, an increase in the child tax credit, and a reduction of the marriage penalty. Both candidates also want to limit but not repeal the Alternative Minimum Tax and both have voiced intentions to lower the death tax. These are all positive developments. Unfortunately, both candidates also propose to further complicate an already hopelessly complicated tax code.

For all their similarities, the two plans have important distinctions. The most important is that McCain’s tax proposals emphasize job creation and raising wages. Obama’s tax proposals exemplify his view that redistributing income among citizens is more important than increasing their earnings and creating jobs. This view is apparent in his proposal to raise income taxes dramatically on individuals and small businesses earning more than $250,000.

Defending his plan in Toledo, Ohio, on Sunday, Obama said, “My attitude is that if the economy’s good for folks from the bottom up, it’s gonna be good for everybody. I think when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody.” Unfortunately, the facts do not back up Obama’s claim. Using tax models and tax information from other sources as inputs into Global Insight’s U.S. Macroeconomic Model, Heritage’s Center for Data Analysis just released a study estimating the side-by-side economic effects of the two plans. According to CDA, by 2018 the economy would be more than $320 billion larger (after inflation), and average household income would be more than $2,600 greater under the McCain plan than under the Obama plan.

I didn't even watch last night... was having too much fun with you guys!

That was fun even it it was with a bunch of party poopers. enjoy your ride.

Thanks! Talk soon.