Dude, their system is split along 2 parties lines, where financial interests control what is done!
There is no real democracy anymore, and voting in one new guy is like changing the net curtains inside a vivisection clinic.
Inside without oversight the butchery will still continue.
Lets see whoever gets in will act like a head of state and return dignity to the whitehouse.There's lots of pressure to go along to get along.
Lets see who will get in and have a mature non dogmatic approach to the countries problems, and actually play their part as an example to follow instead of looking like a bunch of clowns on the world stage going through the fasade of playing politics on partisan lines.
Time to take a deep breath, lead by example, put disputes in the hands of the UN and take the same approach as the Germans and Japanese have done since the end of WW2.
Their stance is to provide military support and logistics where needed and otherwise stay within their zone.
It's about time the Yanks let go of the full spectrum dominance programme and just became a little less scared of everyone or should i say selling to the American public that virtually the west of the world is a threat to America.
It's for the American people to vote their president, but he will not change the way the military industrial complex functions, nor will he change the arms trade, or perhaps switch funding to the development of the dependancy on fossil fuels.
Clean Energy is the number one priority for anyone who gets in or within the next 200 years this planet will be in such a state it will not be able to support one civilisation.
Tell you what, pour in the budget for say the DIA and employ CALTECH and MIT and every respected university in the world to find and make use of the Over under energy field then and only then will i be impressed.
Thats what the world needs, clean non polluting energy, everything else is just window dressing.
OK....American and Iran History modern times since Khomie came back into the country. A short list.
1. US Embassy occupied by Iranian Students and its Embassy Staff held hostage for some 200+ days During which the Iranian government did nothing to resolve the issue........till Reagan came to office 2. Strong evidence that Iran Secret Service was the sponsor of the Beriut Marine Baracks bombing that killed some 200+ Marines. 3. Strong evidnece that Iran was the sponsor of the US Embassy bombing in Lebanon 4. Strong evidence that the Iran Secret Service was the sponsor of many of the kidnapping including several murders of US Gov't, press, and businessmen during that time 5. The kidnapping of a former CIA agent in Iran, that was investigating a American/Iranian in Iran 6. Allowing 16 of the 9/11 hijackers to cross Iran without visa/passports stamps 7. Allowing 500 Taliban/AlQeada refuge in Iran without extradiction, including binLaden eldest son.....who was in AlQeada's top leadership group 8. Supplying both IED and other munition to Iraq that are used in both vehicle attacks and other attacks in country. 9. Harassment of US Naval vessels passing thru the Straits of Hormuz, international waters
Tom your probably aware the students were complete amateurs, but you might not be aware the practice of paying ransom and arms in return of hostages was basically started by the Italians,French,Americans and the British.
The only people who did successfully get back hostages unharmed within a couple of days was the Russians.
They had a great way of dealing with the leadership to get their "concerns" addressed.
They made a phonecall to the people who accidentally managed to kidnap the KGB station chief and ordered his return unharmed.They added if you dont deliver we will post your head to your superiors in Tehran.
Man wasnt released that night, the next day theres an overnight package delivered to Tehran.Man opens the box to find the head of a terrorist in it.
Sure enough the message was relayed back to the terrorists to release the Russians unharmed immediately.And guess what, sure enough they were returned to the consul steps that evening, unharmed and blindfold.
I think its pretty much well known now they hung onto the Americans for so long to discredit Jimmy Carter and they had actually already negotiated the release of the said hostages and the release was held back until the change in presidency.
The problem with Americans history with Iran is their history, and the government are more than aware of the goings on when the Shah was "installed" and the replacement being an MI6 agent needless to say didnt sit well in some quarters.
You cant do covert or wet work of the books and not expect the other side to do the same.After all, thats what has been going on for a long time now!
Have you seen that fabulous movie with late Charles Bronson called "Telephone", Robbie?
In Pakistan.....som how there is not even need for some body making a phone call and then they becoming Zombies and killing others....there are a lot of those kind of Zombie,s deep inside some of the same Pakistani so called security folks and their generals and so on....whom "Doing it" when ever the situation requiers it I am certain. I dont beleive what so ever a bout....the security there is real security any way! In Pakistan most people have been suffering from years of poverty and because of that fanatichal kind of Islam has really deep roots......Butho would solve the situation some how and I am even sure she planned to get rid of Pakistani Nuclear capabilities and would make a rela peace possible with India as well....but now she is gone!
There is some thing rotten going on there......Thats why the day they became Nuclear I really got scared and I am sure my fear a bout that fact is really reasonable. Their rockets can already get to most european countries......and thats only those We know of
Dude,
I've seen the film but what on earth does that have to do with military security of tactical nuclear weapons?
Dude, i'll tell you what email say Riyablossom and ask her what the Bhutto dynasty were responsible for?Then maybe you might understand why so many people wanted every Bhutto politician dead.
Corruption and murder is the lowest charges you can level, as any educated Indian person will be more than happy to tell you.
Characterising people as zombies isn't helpful either, say specifically what your accusing these people of doing as its fairly scattergun approach and pretty insulting.
I'll say again, Pakistan and India are no threat to world peace, and any conflicts they have with each other will be local and of the non nuclear variety.
I cant comment on this thread really, i think i am slowly falling to pieces and i better go to the doctors surgery tomorrow as my lungs giving me trouble again.
And there was me 2 days ago thinking my injury was healed
You do not have to worry about Pakistan at all.Why do you think there a threat?
Sure some in their intelligence network are double agents and supply Al Qaeda but then when you know the history of how the funding works and how the business works this isn't a surprise.
If your sad for Bhutto and her dynasty ask an Indian person what they are responsible for, they are no loss to the world,believe me.
I feel the same way and it makes me sick to my stomach, so how people can have such blind faith in Obama i have no idea.
For a start he's a lawyer!! He's had all the training in the world to spout lies and half truths and keep a straight face.And when he gets pulled up he will blame it on a junior staffer and simply fire them.
Their all rotten to the core and would sell their own grandmothers to get into office.
Mind you Hillary is different, she would eat her own grandmother live on tv then wrestle a crocodile while sing the land of the free to get elected.
Yeah Indy, hes just another disingenious politician who will say anything to get his foot in the door.
How the hell can Iran be a tin pot regime one day and a serious threat the other?
Personally if i were in a position of power he wouldnt have any sway with me after insulting the country one day and calling them a threat the next day.
That example in particular shows hes aiming his comments to a certain audience, when instead he should be responsible and don't make rash uninformed statement's that make him look foolish.
Dude,why are you not in the DSSS? (Danish Super Secret Service) You could be Agent 006-1/2
Conrad, for some reason he thinks "terrorists" would be able to steal the limited supply of nuclear warheads Pakistan owns.
Unless i am mistaken they are very well protected with dedicated security details.Quite how anyone can steal a nuclear device when its inside a base, surrounded by necessary security i have no idea.
Someone must have a really big loose jacket to sneak one out the door
Re Pakistan you clearly dont know what your talking about.If you did you would know who set up trained and funds the Pakistani Military Intelligence.
They clearly are at the front of the fight of the perceived threat of international terrorism, and i assure you we all get on very well with them.They are NO THREAT WHATSOEVER.
In fact were couldn't be much closer if we tried..........
I have no idea how you think you know what Obama thinks.
Clearly Iran is in a difficult position, next to a power vacuum, but please don't take them for a bunch of wreckless idiots run by mad people.This plainly isnt true.
Check the flight combat radius of Israel's F-16 and F-15. Niether has the flight range to make flight to Iran without air to air refueling. Air to air refueling means air operation over the airspace of surrounding Moslem countries with their radars watching. I don't think that those Isreali F-16s are going to make the trip to Iran, Robbie. But the Isreali have surprised us (me) in the past.
Also Isreal is has a new interceptor of its own making. Suppose to be right up there with our THAAD in accurancy. Much better than the Patriot I or II.
Just because Sadam is (or was) paying mercs (pretty hard to now where he is, to sign cheques), doesnot mean that Iran is not a player in Iraq. Also not unknown for groups to double dip (work for two countries).This is the middle east....every body is a player and every body plays....which is sad because of the damage/death being done there.
Tom,
Clearly you are aware of who i would assume would supply logistical support, and clearly saddam is in the dirt but the drug money paid out but the "coalition" and other foreign funds clearly is enough to foot the bill.
As for tactical nuclear devices, and weapons caches i hate to point out the obvious that it it a standard military practice to hide assets in strategic localions around the globe.
Not only will the Americans and British have laser designators safely esconsed in foreign territory it is niave for anyone to believe other countries do not follow the same practice. The last time i remember reading anything on the subject the Russians had "misplaced" and dont quote me on the precise number but i think it was 24 weapons.Needless to say these are small effective suitcase bombs, and apparently you can get about 4 of these in the average size car boot.
Then again after the wholesale looting of the Ukraines weapons stores and the availability of fuel rods in the former union it doesnt take a nuclear scientist to add one pound of C4, add a 1 week timer, clockwork of course, (without even mercury switches to ensure if the item is touched it detonates) and place this downtown in any city centre hich will basically mean a 1 mile poluted zone that will say make central london uninhabitable for more than a few years, basically the pollution would effectively any city unusable.
Iran has a highly professional intelligence capability, and there will be cells everywhere, professionally trained military officers, not half arsed guys who picked up a chinese make rusty AKSU last week.
My point is, don't you think any military intelligence operative in the world knows exactly how to do this? Nobody has to wait to develope nuclear weapons, all they need is a network capability, some plastic explosive, a clock and a car to park this in in a street.
Way to much emphasis is always placed on aquiring nuclear weapons, when the real danger is plain old expended radioactive waste.
On the patriot score, the weapon is ineffective against ICBM type weapons and unguided dumb weapons, as they basically wall to the ground and blow up.I think the scuds that landed in Israel managed to kill one person, or this person actually died as a result of incorrectly fitting a gas mask.The technology doesnt work, well lets put it like this its like firing a claymore in the area of the rocket, but it still falls to the ground and goes off.
There basically a confidence builder to make people something is being done, but in military terms thee as much use as a chocolate teapot
Thanks for info on Sadam's foreign mercs. And the cells in Suadi is noted. We knew that his secret police and special units planned a guerilla war. We have thought that most of the outside fighters were either AlQeada or militants with cleric groups. Checkens have been in this big. But their connection there is via Iran.....at least we see a close connection there.
Our support of Isreal....blind to you....near sighted to many others...is not unconditional. There are things, that we have not given them. And things we are considering giving them. Things that are not even on the table for consideration. The trick is to give things that they need for thier defense, but don't upset the existing treaties with middle east Moslem countries.
It is a real tricky and tough balancing act to walk here.
Not only that, the Isreali are pretty innovative themselves. Give them F-16s, a few years later they have conformal fuel tanks on it that extends the range. We are often not talking about straight weapon transfers with them but technology transfers that their military industrial complex can use and develop. This is not to say that we have not done straight weapon deals, we have.
I think that our role has changed. Most have seen us as the peace maker in the region. Being active in Iraq, means it is hard (maybe even impossible) for the US to be the peace maker. But I also think that the recent Isreali and Syrian talks in Turkey were backchaneled by C. Rice and GWB. This might give Iran some thought, to have it major ally in the middle east, signing a peace agreement with Isreal. We still want peace in the region even ahomeland for the Palestines....just hard to get peace in the region when we are also pulling triggers there.
You watch...President A is going to be meeting soon with President S. and some serious talking is going to occur.
Tom.
The Chechens came via the same route as every other merc, the trails were well established and the paymaster was Saddam's regime.
I think the UN is going to have to solve the middle east negotiations, to ensure the various interests have their business discussed out in the open without the threat of covert action being threatened.
Quite how dude thinks theres only a few people to deal with in Iran or the implications if say Mossad obtained concrete links between a stategic strike linking terrorists to a Nation state such as Syria.
I know exactly what the immediate response would be.
The F16's would be loaded and sent to the most opportune military target they could justify.The American president and other foriegn leaders would be on the phone begging and offering financial air not to do a raid (as has happened before) and then the C4's would arrive with even more ineffective patriot missiles.More weapons shipments would be shipped from Stansted Airport and the region would be basically be primed for all out war.
The carrot clearly is investment and development, but i doubt in some circles the will exists.
There's no doubt the rate of CO2 and other emissions has increased as we have become a industrialised world.
Recycling should be compulsory, but there are so many untruths peddled it makes people suspect there is a giant con going on.
Sun spot activity always seems to be forgotten, and i think just possibly the sun has a little more to do with things than some in the Green Lobby business would give admit to.
That said i recycle every bit of card paper and plastic as it makes sense to protect our environment.
There is no need for V8 engines, nor one country selling its carbons emissions quota.
We have technology to produce lest waste and less emissions, its just not deployed because of the costs.
The sooner we are less dependant on fossil fuels the better, but mind you try telling that to some vested interests.
I think i like the "don't misunderestimate me" and "i like to dig in the soil for bugs" comments.
Quite how he even got even a a governor says a lot about the average voter. All the more reason to make everyone vote as a legal requirement as is done in Australia.
Apathy is no excuse, and it proves how much damage a clown like him can do.
It's common sense isn't it? But will the politicians do it?
After all what else is the UN for? Hopefully not a discredited toothless talking shop.
We need worldwide support to make this actually work.First 2 subjects that will come up is Palestine and Israel occupying land it took my force.Second subject, Africa.
Solution, get all parties to the UN, make all see sense, pledge material support and deliver it and make Israel behave or withdraw military support.
The sooner we all get along and help the sooner the planet and people will have a better time of it.
Military budgets would shrink and the funds would be available all of a sudden for development of industry and for instance a bi product would be a health system already paid for within the tax system.
Tom i agree with you 100 per cent.But blindly supporting Israel is a recipe for a disaster.It's high time they honored the agreement with the old Saudi king and sorted out the mess in the middle east.
Tom you may not be aware but we have discovered more cells in this country than are going to be operational in the states.
Saddam apparently had one man in every street working for the secret police, and also offered a bounty worldwide for any mercs to come and fight in Iraq.The rates were quite generous and plenty of people from of the Balkans, Russians and even FFL guys took the money to go there to basically shoot at Americans.
As you probably already worked out i was once more than familiar with joint operations, but still retain friends in the community.
Everyone should put their own house in order first and foremost.
Then if there is an international problem let the UN take care of it, and regional support and logistics supplied by worldwide combat troops.
For instance, Mugabe.....if theres one scumbag that should have been deposed to easy the suffering of his own people then he has to be candidate number one.
Easy scenario.African countries supply the troops and disarm the regime and if selected special forces are requested than they can be requested from both America/UK and any other appropriate country.
Indy, the British and American governments supplied the materials and trained the people! Of course they had weapons, but what most people aren't aware of what the politicians knew and conveniently left off the briefings is Anthrax bombs or say botulism has a shelf life of 3 years.
Scott Ritter and his team accounted for their programme and blew up the facilities.They also selectively quoted not only intelligence reports they actively misquoted the intelligence agencies and weapons inspectors, hanging them all out to dry.
The intelligence community now have to be very careful they don't become the fall guys for the politicians.If there's one bunch an intelligence agency know not to trust its a politician.
They certainly wont put their necks on the line for the politicians, and every briefing will have more reference and qualifying notes attached.
Indy, i agree.It's a disaster and if they leave without rebuilding the country i think it will be impossible for the United states to recover credibility.
My god at least the coup on Chile only cost 1000 lives.This disaster will cost trillions of dollars, several decades and a complete moral rethink of foriegn policy for anyone at the UN to trust that organisation or any government worldwide to respect America taking any moral high ground.
By the time its recovered the Chinese will rule by then...........
I absolutely agree, i see partisan arguements along political lines, ranting and insults. And very few facts.
Clearly whatever made George Bush junior make him think he could get away with it i have no idea.
9/11 was used as an excuse.Clearly there is no evidence linking Al Qaeda to the Iraqi Regime.On the contary, they would have been trained in Afghanistan in one of many recorded terrorist training camps.
The problem is there aren't any "good targets" in Afghanistan.
And then after all you cant very well ignore Afghanistan and then head straight for Iraq!!
After all, that wouldn't make sense would it, especially not even sending special forces into the Afghanistan mountains after Bin Laden after a 3 month head start.
Strange considering i know exactly how long it takes to prep and authorise a "seebies" mission.
The whole episode is a sick joke and i personally think the Hawks saw an opportunity to sell a lemon to the American people in time for George Jr getting back for Saddam trying to kill his dad, and not finishing the job properly when he had the opportunity in 1991.
This along with the negligent behaviour of the commander in chief resulting in the slaughter of the people in southern Iraq who did actually rise up to sweep away saddams Regime.
This is one of the saddest episodes on modern history, and one that will take decades for the reputation of the United States to recover from the fiasco.
RobbieM Forum Posts (4,553)
RE: Obama for President......Octagram!
Dude, their system is split along 2 parties lines, where financial interests control what is done!There is no real democracy anymore, and voting in one new guy is like changing the net curtains inside a vivisection clinic.
Inside without oversight the butchery will still continue.
Lets see whoever gets in will act like a head of state and return dignity to the whitehouse.There's lots of pressure to go along to get along.
Lets see who will get in and have a mature non dogmatic approach to the countries problems, and actually play their part as an example to follow instead of looking like a bunch of clowns on the world stage going through the fasade of playing politics on partisan lines.
Time to take a deep breath, lead by example, put disputes in the hands of the UN and take the same approach as the Germans and Japanese have done since the end of WW2.
Their stance is to provide military support and logistics where needed and otherwise stay within their zone.
It's about time the Yanks let go of the full spectrum dominance programme and just became a little less scared of everyone or should i say selling to the American public that virtually the west of the world is a threat to America.
The idea is bloody stupid.