No hope for Iran (267)
RayfromUSA:
And how many Americans died in the bombardment, invasion, and occupation of the US, or by Iraq's massive and indiscriminate use of radioactive depleted uranium in American cities.
Thank you for reminding everyone. No matter your position on any detail of the war (in all its venues) the undeniable fact is that after 9-11 and all collateral scariness (anthrax etc.) we have not had another terrorist incident on our soil. I am so proud of my country and our armed forces, even to include the freedoms they gave all the ungrateful to disrespect them.And how many Americans died in the bombardment, invasion, and occupation of the US, or by Iraq's massive and indiscriminate use of radioactive depleted uranium in American cities.
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raphael118: No I didnt send that but the person who drew it may of read my post.
yea boy u all r same, and I am here to scew u guys
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The deaths of the protestors is very sad, and terribly tragic.
However i believe in ANY country if protests turned violent, the armed forces would intervene, and death and injury would b likely 2 occur.
There is still speculation as to the validity of the results in IRAN.
However this has happened in many westernized countries before, and no other country is in a position to sit in judgement.
The ONLY time we can do this is when people are being forcibly cohersed into voting a certain way.
However i believe in ANY country if protests turned violent, the armed forces would intervene, and death and injury would b likely 2 occur.
There is still speculation as to the validity of the results in IRAN.
However this has happened in many westernized countries before, and no other country is in a position to sit in judgement.
The ONLY time we can do this is when people are being forcibly cohersed into voting a certain way.
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BebeII: We all have to learn Conrad.
Bebe, i was once a capitalist.
My life path has vastly changed.
Everyone learns in different ways, and in vastly differing worlds.
My reason for being here is to learn from others, put forward what i believe my truths are, and exchange UNDERSTANDINGS with great minds, as i believe we NEVER stop learning.
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Magenta: Bebe, i was once a capitalist.
My life path has vastly changed.
Everyone learns in different ways, and in vastly differing worlds.
My reason for being here is to learn from others, put forward what i believe my truths are, and exchange UNDERSTANDINGS with great minds, as i believe we NEVER stop learning.
My life path has vastly changed.
Everyone learns in different ways, and in vastly differing worlds.
My reason for being here is to learn from others, put forward what i believe my truths are, and exchange UNDERSTANDINGS with great minds, as i believe we NEVER stop learning.
though I wonder she(babe
yaa she is a babe) care other ppls feelings, and u chose a wrong woman to exchange u r views,she is the most extremist woman in this site------ This thread is Locked ------
Magenta: Bebe, i was once a capitalist.
My life path has vastly changed.
Everyone learns in different ways, and in vastly differing worlds.
My reason for being here is to learn from others, put forward what i believe my truths are, and exchange UNDERSTANDINGS with great minds, as i believe we NEVER stop learning.
Some systems work better than others, Magenta-that is a fact that no amount of "learning" can undo.My life path has vastly changed.
Everyone learns in different ways, and in vastly differing worlds.
My reason for being here is to learn from others, put forward what i believe my truths are, and exchange UNDERSTANDINGS with great minds, as i believe we NEVER stop learning.
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enola1: though I wonder she(babe yaa she is a babe) care other ppls feelings, and u chose a wrong woman to exchange u r views,she is the most extremist woman in this site
Yes, she is extreme right, but she has a right to be. Why not point out those that are extreme left as well instead of those that fit against your ideology?
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BebeII: Some systems work better than others, Magenta-that is a fact that no amount of "learning" can undo.
I agree.
but america cannot scorn when its own system has its faults
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enola1: though I wonder she(babe yaa she is a babe) care other ppls feelings, and u chose a wrong woman to exchange u r views,she is the most extremist woman in this site
I have seen worse.
Bebe's a tad patriotic and defensive, not that thats a bad thing.
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Magenta: I have seen worse.
Bebe's a tad patriotic and defensive, not that thats a bad thing.
Speaking for other People again?Bebe's a tad patriotic and defensive, not that thats a bad thing.
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Magenta: I agree. but america cannot scorn when its own system has its faults
America can watch and make comment though. How much real scorn is there in that?
Also Madenta.....just maybe America presence in Iraq and Afghansitan....and setting up those countries to have flawed (agreed) democracies that they have....is a cause (not the only one) of the reformers passion for a better democracy in Iran.
Expecting perfection in a gov't or its politics, as a standard
of democracy.....that has often been called messy and broken....to be the bar to critical and honest assessment of foreign gov't seems to me to be very unrealistic.
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ttom500: America can watch and make comment though. How much real scorn is there in that?
Also Madenta.....just maybe America presence in Iraq and Afghansitan....and setting up those countries to have flawed (agreed) democracies that they have....is a cause (not the only one) of the reformers passion for a better democracy in Iran.
Expecting perfection in a gov't or its politics, as a standard
of democracy.....that has often been called messy and broken....to be the bar to critical and honest assessment of foreign gov't seems to me to be very unrealistic.
Also Madenta.....just maybe America presence in Iraq and Afghansitan....and setting up those countries to have flawed (agreed) democracies that they have....is a cause (not the only one) of the reformers passion for a better democracy in Iran.
Expecting perfection in a gov't or its politics, as a standard
of democracy.....that has often been called messy and broken....to be the bar to critical and honest assessment of foreign gov't seems to me to be very unrealistic.
Every one wishes better democracy, but are those reformers quite democratic, what I mean is that, for the last decade every election in hot spots becomes a battle field and... ok.. the causes for those protests are not always justified and people just act basing on their emotions, I do not want to blame people of Iran, they might have well grounded reason for their protests. Just after loosing election nowadays opposition proclaim election illegal and call to strugle without any real evidences and investigation, better to make analyses with cold mind and then shout out for revolution
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jetdevil2001: Every one wishes better democracy, but are those reformers quite democratic, what I mean is that, for the last decade every election in hot spots becomes a battle field and... ok.. the causes for those protests are not always justified and people just act basing on their emotions, I do not want to blame people of Iran, they might have well grounded reason for their protests. Just after loosing election nowadays opposition proclaim election illegal and call to strugle without any real evidences and investigation, better to make analyses with cold mind and then shout out for revolution
You are right! People DO get emotional when their elections are tampered with and even when they are not justified. However, this election result could not have been decided by the vote count, but by the whim or wish of the "Supreme Leader". You ask for "analyses with cold mind" so I'll give you a cold mind analysis.
The election was decided 3 hours after the polls closed.
There were 11 million paper ballots to count.
Simple math: 11,000,000/180 (number of minutes in 3 hours) = 61,111. That is the number of paper ballots that had to be counted EVERY MINUTE! Or 1018 paper ballots counted EVERY SECOND. Nor could these ballots have been counted by machine because the ballots were folded in half. This doesn't even take into account collecting ballot boxes from all over the country and transporting then to where they are counted assuming they are controlled by some central authority.
Conclusion: The election was a sham! Only put on to appease the masses. The outcome was decided before the first voted was cast!
This is NOT democracy!
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ttom500: America can watch and make comment though. How much real scorn is there in that?
Also Madenta.....just maybe America presence in Iraq and Afghansitan....and setting up those countries to have flawed (agreed) democracies that they have....is a cause (not the only one) of the reformers passion for a better democracy in Iran.
Expecting perfection in a gov't or its politics, as a standard
of democracy.....that has often been called messy and broken....to be the bar to critical and honest assessment of foreign gov't seems to me to be very unrealistic.
Also Madenta.....just maybe America presence in Iraq and Afghansitan....and setting up those countries to have flawed (agreed) democracies that they have....is a cause (not the only one) of the reformers passion for a better democracy in Iran.
Expecting perfection in a gov't or its politics, as a standard
of democracy.....that has often been called messy and broken....to be the bar to critical and honest assessment of foreign gov't seems to me to be very unrealistic.
Agreed! I think...
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Interesting Vote-Analysis!
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We honor Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. for proclaiming from a Birmingham jail, “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.” To demand justice for others, he risked his life, left his native Georgia, and ended up in jail in the-then-bigoted south, Birmingham, Alabama. We “Iranians” must do no less. We must demand justice for our compatriots who are suffering under the yoke of Islamofascism in Iran.
We also do well to recall the example of an Irish-American President—John F. Kennedy—looking at the Communists’ Wall of Shame in Berlin, proclaiming, “Ich bin ein Berliner”—“I am a Berliner.” By so claiming, he helped rally free people of the world that brought down the wall and created a momentum that eventually swept the totalitarian Communist wall-builders into the dustbin of history.
(quote)
Brilliant post.
But democracy doesnt equate 2 idealism.
We also do well to recall the example of an Irish-American President—John F. Kennedy—looking at the Communists’ Wall of Shame in Berlin, proclaiming, “Ich bin ein Berliner”—“I am a Berliner.” By so claiming, he helped rally free people of the world that brought down the wall and created a momentum that eventually swept the totalitarian Communist wall-builders into the dustbin of history.
(quote)
Brilliant post.
But democracy doesnt equate 2 idealism.
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Magenta: Agreed! I think...
Amazing things do happen, Magenta!!!
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Da10th: Yes, she is extreme right, but she has a right to be. Why not point out those that are extreme left as well instead of those that fit against your ideology?
She has not expressed anything extreme at all!! Amazing how these words creep into language....anyone with a different opinion becomes an extremist?------ This thread is Locked ------
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Do you want me to list the Islamic groups that took 'reponsibility' for the acts?
Ray
Yes indeed, by all means, let's see if those groups really exist or not.
Ttom
Now please tell me....how many Americans have been taken prisoner in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Ray
First tell me how many Iraqis were taken prisoner during the Iraqi invasion of the US, their massive "shock and awe" bombardment of American cities, and their brutal occupation of the entire US.
And tell me how many American children were killed by the preceeding 10 year Iraqi embargo that prevented food, medecine, and clean water from reaching the kids to keep them alive.
And how many Americans died in the bombardment, invasion, and occupation of the US, or by Iraq's massive and indiscriminate use of radioactive depleted uranium in American cities.
And tell me how patriotic American citizens (civilians) should (and would) react if such events ever really did occur.