No hope for Iran (267)
ttom500: Do you want me to list the Islamic groups that took 'reponsibility' for the acts?
You know as well I do...each was done by a group that was either a terrorist group or would be later designated as one.
Please find me source from the British that called American founding father's terrorist? I would like to read that.
But let me clue you in.
Early in the American Revolution war, the British captured several 1000s of these American terrorist. For the next 4 years they were kept chained in prison ships...poor food....no medical....little water....no hygiene....seldom saw the light of day. The numbers grew in the ships as the war progressed.
The British would not release or trade them, feeling it was a military advantage to hold them. Only after Cornwallis was defeated and taken prisoner at Yorktown were they released. Only 1/2 of them survived.
You would call it a war crime today. It made GITMO look like a walk in the park.
The founding father of this country...because of the prison treatment of these men...had more than enough cause to treat British prisoners with the same disregard. But they did not.
They exchanged them for promise to return to England and not fight. They fed and clothed them with what little they had. They provide medical to them on the battle field and after.
Now please tell me....how many Americans have been taken prisoner in Iraq and Afghanistan? Tell me how they were treated?
Did they receive Gevena convention treatment from the Taliban or
AlQeada? I know the answer....but I am sure others here at CS would like to know.
You know as well I do...each was done by a group that was either a terrorist group or would be later designated as one.
Please find me source from the British that called American founding father's terrorist? I would like to read that.
But let me clue you in.
Early in the American Revolution war, the British captured several 1000s of these American terrorist. For the next 4 years they were kept chained in prison ships...poor food....no medical....little water....no hygiene....seldom saw the light of day. The numbers grew in the ships as the war progressed.
The British would not release or trade them, feeling it was a military advantage to hold them. Only after Cornwallis was defeated and taken prisoner at Yorktown were they released. Only 1/2 of them survived.
You would call it a war crime today. It made GITMO look like a walk in the park.
The founding father of this country...because of the prison treatment of these men...had more than enough cause to treat British prisoners with the same disregard. But they did not.
They exchanged them for promise to return to England and not fight. They fed and clothed them with what little they had. They provide medical to them on the battle field and after.
Now please tell me....how many Americans have been taken prisoner in Iraq and Afghanistan? Tell me how they were treated?
Did they receive Gevena convention treatment from the Taliban or
AlQeada? I know the answer....but I am sure others here at CS would like to know.
My friend don’t be so excited
,it is bad for your health .I did say many of those incidents not all, beside it is very common in human history when a group of people struggle against a tyrant Empire they do need a philosophical base ,some time it may be religious philosophy that emphasis on equality ,So it is not necessary that make you a terrorist.And if you think it is only Muslims or only radical Muslims who are behind every evil in this world then I don’t see any future of our debate, I am not here to change someone’s blind radical belief.As far as your country’s greatness issue I wrote something about that in my previous article, by comparing your behavior with some other whom you think are worst people on earth , you certainly not made a great case .Finally I should say when Sun rises every body can see, you don’t have to force
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ttom500: Do you want me to list the Islamic groups that took 'reponsibility' for the acts?
You know as well I do...each was done by a group that was either a terrorist group or would be later designated as one.
Please find me source from the British that called American founding father's terrorist? I would like to read that.
But let me clue you in.
Early in the American Revolution war, the British captured several 1000s of these American terrorist. For the next 4 years they were kept chained in prison ships...poor food....no medical....little water....no hygiene....seldom saw the light of day. The numbers grew in the ships as the war progressed.
The British would not release or trade them, feeling it was a military advantage to hold them. Only after Cornwallis was defeated and taken prisoner at Yorktown were they released. Only 1/2 of them survived.
You would call it a war crime today. It made GITMO look like a walk in the park.
The founding father of this country...because of the prison treatment of these men...had more than enough cause to treat British prisoners with the same disregard. But they did not.
They exchanged them for promise to return to England and not fight. They fed and clothed them with what little they had. They provide medical to them on the battle field and after.
Now please tell me....how many Americans have been taken prisoner in Iraq and Afghanistan? Tell me how they were treated?
Did they receive Gevena convention treatment from the Taliban or
AlQeada? I know the answer....but I am sure others here at CS would like to know.
You know as well I do...each was done by a group that was either a terrorist group or would be later designated as one.
Please find me source from the British that called American founding father's terrorist? I would like to read that.
But let me clue you in.
Early in the American Revolution war, the British captured several 1000s of these American terrorist. For the next 4 years they were kept chained in prison ships...poor food....no medical....little water....no hygiene....seldom saw the light of day. The numbers grew in the ships as the war progressed.
The British would not release or trade them, feeling it was a military advantage to hold them. Only after Cornwallis was defeated and taken prisoner at Yorktown were they released. Only 1/2 of them survived.
You would call it a war crime today. It made GITMO look like a walk in the park.
The founding father of this country...because of the prison treatment of these men...had more than enough cause to treat British prisoners with the same disregard. But they did not.
They exchanged them for promise to return to England and not fight. They fed and clothed them with what little they had. They provide medical to them on the battle field and after.
Now please tell me....how many Americans have been taken prisoner in Iraq and Afghanistan? Tell me how they were treated?
Did they receive Gevena convention treatment from the Taliban or
AlQeada? I know the answer....but I am sure others here at CS would like to know.
My friend don’t be so excited
,it is bad for your health .I did say many of those incidents not all, beside it is very common in human history when a group of people struggle against a tyrant Empire they do need a philosophical base ,some time it may be religious philosophy that emphasis on equality ,So it is not necessary that make you a terrorist.And if you think it is only Muslims or only radical Muslims who are behind every evil in this world then I don’t see any future of our debate, I am not here to change someone’s blind radical belief.As far as your country’s greatness issue I wrote something about that in my previous article, by comparing your behavior with some other whom you think are worst people on earth , you certainly not made a great case .Finally I should say when Sun rises every body can see, you don’t have to force
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Magenta: You are talking of the game chinese whispers. Oh and i am referring to the 2000, not the 2004 election.
I didnt realise 2 elections were in dispute
Yes, there are those who say Bush stole both elections. In the first, the supreme court was asked to rule on the recount and they voted 7-2 against Gore's position.I didnt realise 2 elections were in dispute
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Magenta: The only time when another country should invade is if there is an IMMINENT threat to it or its treaty allies, or if there is a homocidal genocide occuring. And even then Nato forces would hopefully get the situation resolved
But what constitutes an "imminent" threat? Blair stated that Iraq had the capability to launch missiles within a short time period, something Bush never said. The Bush admin. stated that Iraq was a threat due to it's proven support of known terrorists in the past, it's use of WMD on it's own population and the threat that he may hand them off to other groups like AQ. As for NATO, it's about as useful as the U.N. We were attacked on 9-11, and it took them a full 3 weeks to vote for the Afghan war and even now, few of the european countrie's soldiers are even allowed to engage the enemy in real combat. This isn't meant to belittle their contributions-many NATO soldiers have died-, but to point out that the effort is so one-sided, I doubt that NATO would be useful in a genocidal conflict. See Rwanda and Bosnia.------ This thread is Locked ------
Magenta: Magenta, the list of person calling for recounts because of suspected voting problems....the President of France, the President of Germany, Sen. McCain, Sen. Graham, a long list....
A British election watch group....said that two of the Iranian voting districts had more than a 100% vote. They are still trying to figure out if it was computer error or human error.
The Iranian election is a paper ballot. That means a hand count by people. It was a 85% turnout....one of the highest in Iranian histories. Time to count the some 40+ million ballots? 10 hours.
Think that is humanly possible?
I think that there is difference between policing democracies and seeing that illegal election don't occur....that you expose them when they do occur. In fact I think that there is a big difference.
(quote)
Fair enough tom. However member nations of the UN should state their strong objection if rigging the result had occured.
Alot of people on here sound like they want pres A's blood, because of it
I don't want A's blood-just a peaceful turnover of power to whomever the people there voted for.A British election watch group....said that two of the Iranian voting districts had more than a 100% vote. They are still trying to figure out if it was computer error or human error.
The Iranian election is a paper ballot. That means a hand count by people. It was a 85% turnout....one of the highest in Iranian histories. Time to count the some 40+ million ballots? 10 hours.
Think that is humanly possible?
I think that there is difference between policing democracies and seeing that illegal election don't occur....that you expose them when they do occur. In fact I think that there is a big difference.
(quote)
Fair enough tom. However member nations of the UN should state their strong objection if rigging the result had occured.
Alot of people on here sound like they want pres A's blood, because of it
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Witchaywoman: Hi. There could be hope for Iran. I thought there was no hope for the US when Bush won. But, that forced a lot of people to get up and vote. Then, Obama won by a land slide and those seriously creepy religious zealot republicans are going the way of the Kiwi and the Passenger Pidgeon. So, when the government shot and poisoned all those protestors, all they did was serve to infuriate the people, and soon there will be change in that country.
Obama won by 5 or 6 % points-not a landslide. I can tell you don't know any religious people by your description of them. That's O.K.-I once thought the same thing about them when I was on the left.------ This thread is Locked ------
No, crusade in the last 200 years or so refers only to a fight or struggle to us=perhaps in the same way that jihad can mean the same to muslims without any religious connotation at all. The Palestinian people didn't have much of a choice in their elections-either Hamas or Fatah. There have been Jews living continuously in Israel for 3,000 years Arogn. They have always dreamed of going back there to reestablish their own nation. However messed up the process was, there have been many times and opportunities for the Palestinians to establish a state of their own, but they have been hampered by Egyptians, Syrians, Jordanians and others who purported to speak for them when all they wanted was to rule the country themselves. Don't mistake european christian anti-semites with american christians-they are two different species all together. Israel's issues today have to do with remaining a state by jews and for jews because they have learned never to trust other's with their security and survival. We have many bases throughout the world in order to keep sea-lanes and trade open, prevent outbreaks of violence, etc. I don't think of empires in terms of race-Rome was just as much multi-ethnic as we are. I am an american period-not hungarian, polish, english or italian. Criticism is fine, but needs to be across the board based on behavior. It does no good to blame one country for it's sins while ignoring another's-that's just bias. When Sri Lanka recently killed 20,000+ civilians in order to defeat the Tamil Tigers, the U.N. said they weren't going to investigate it, but if the U.S. or Israel kills far fewer civilains, they are condemned and investigated. People see through that nonsense in a hurry.
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I don’t think Roman empire was as diverse as USA, beside when I said there is Iranian American, European American ,Bangladeshi American etc but no American American: I mean it in positive sense, it shows that you hold a mini world within yourself and you together struggle to make a better world. It increase the chance that you may succeed to inspire rest to build a better world because of this diversity within you
Regarding the comparison between USA and Srilanka ,well I don’t see any, USA is far big with much more greater agenda, Yes what USA do get highlight because you have effect on most of world and you are a star country ,and as Isreal have a love affair with USA it also get highlights just as a star’s girlfriend gets
I do appreciate your pure patriotism, the way you defend your great land, appreciated
Regarding the comparison between USA and Srilanka ,well I don’t see any, USA is far big with much more greater agenda, Yes what USA do get highlight because you have effect on most of world and you are a star country
,and as Isreal have a love affair with USA it also get highlights just as a star’s girlfriend gets I do appreciate your pure patriotism, the way you defend your great land, appreciated
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Arogn: I don’t think Roman empire was as diverse as USA, beside when I said there is Iranian American, European American ,Bangladeshi American etc but no American American: I mean it in positive sense, it shows that you hold a mini world within yourself and you together struggle to make a better world. It increase the chance that you may succeed to inspire rest to build a better world because of this diversity within you
Regarding the comparison between USA and Srilanka ,well I don’t see any, USA is far big with much more greater agenda, Yes what USA do get highlight because you have effect on most of world and you are a star country ,and as Isreal have a love affair with USA it also get highlights just as a star’s girlfriend gets
I do appreciate your pure patriotism, the way you defend your great land, appreciated
Diversity isn't what makes a country great. In regards to Sri Lanka, I am refering only to the U.N. decision to not investigate the 20,000 or so killed by that government and the obverse-that Israel and the U.S. are always called on it. I don't see it as a love affair-it is a matter of supporting your allies.Regarding the comparison between USA and Srilanka ,well I don’t see any, USA is far big with much more greater agenda, Yes what USA do get highlight because you have effect on most of world and you are a star country ,and as Isreal have a love affair with USA it also get highlights just as a star’s girlfriend gets
I do appreciate your pure patriotism, the way you defend your great land, appreciated
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Arogn: My friend don’t be so excited ,it is bad for your health .I did say many of those incidents not all, beside it is very common in human history when a group of people struggle against a tyrant Empire they do need a philosophical base ,some time it may be religious philosophy that emphasis on equality ,So it is not necessary that make you a terrorist.And if you think it is only Muslims or only radical Muslims who are behind every evil in this world then I don’t see any future of our debate, I am not here to change someone’s blind radical belief.
As far as your country’s greatness issue I wrote something about that in my previous article, by comparing your behavior with some other whom you think are worst people on earth , you certainly not made a great case .Finally I should say when Sun rises every body can see, you don’t have to force
As far as your country’s greatness issue I wrote something about that in my previous article, by comparing your behavior with some other whom you think are worst people on earth , you certainly not made a great case .Finally I should say when Sun rises every body can see, you don’t have to force
----------------------------^--------------------------
I see the sun plainly when I rise in the morning and see the sun setting clearly in the evening. I also see an end to Islamic terrorism as countries and people around the world have learn to see it and to know it. Have learned its hatred of good and its evil purposes to oppress and fear. The world has learned in the words such as yours....deceit flows to the ears of innocents.
For you would justify murder for mere political purpose and religious justification in your philosophical base.
This entire justification (philosophical base) that a few men can do a criminal act representing large body of oppressed people and their political purposes is one of deception. These oppressed people did not elect them, or empower them, or commission them. This should be seen as the very first criminal act of the few men. For they have stolen the will of that people for their own selfish criminal cause.
The religious and ideological motives (again the philosophical base)for terrorism are as base as the IED placed along side a roadway that kill civilians that walk near a target vehicle. As base as the acts inside of the AlQeada torture house on innocent Iraqi. As base as a suicede bomber that walks into a market filled with children and women.
They steal the faith of Islam and caused a divide in one of the world's three great faiths. They would pit those faiths against each other. Again for their own selfish purposes. The world has learned this in the last 10 years. That is why Islamic terrorism and regimes like President A are ending. And deceptive word find fewer ears to listen.
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Arogn: My friend don’t be so excited ,it is bad for your health .I did say many of those incidents not all, beside it is very common in human history when a group of people struggle against a tyrant Empire they do need a philosophical base ,some time it may be religious philosophy that emphasis on equality ,So it is not necessary that make you a terrorist.And if you think it is only Muslims or only radical Muslims who are behind every evil in this world then I don’t see any future of our debate, I am not here to change someone’s blind radical belief.
As far as your country’s greatness issue I wrote something about that in my previous article, by comparing your behavior with some other whom you think are worst people on earth , you certainly not made a great case .Finally I should say when Sun rises every body can see, you don’t have to force
As far as your country’s greatness issue I wrote something about that in my previous article, by comparing your behavior with some other whom you think are worst people on earth , you certainly not made a great case .Finally I should say when Sun rises every body can see, you don’t have to force
------------------------------^---------------------
But still I would like an answer to my last question, regarding American taken prisoner by AlQeada and Taliban....and their treatment. Instead of rhetorical play as this.
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BebeII: Obama won by 5 or 6 % points-not a landslide. I can tell you don't know any religious people by your description of them. That's O.K.-I once thought the same thing about them when I was on the left.
Been there too,hmmmm?------ This thread is Locked ------
Conrad73: Been there too,hmmmm?
We all have to learn Conrad.------ This thread is Locked ------
BebeII: We all have to learn Conrad.
Yep,I had to.------ This thread is Locked ------
ttom500: ----------------------------^--------------------------
I see the sun plainly when I rise in the morning and see the sun setting clearly in the evening. I also see an end to Islamic terrorism as countries and people around the world have learn to see it and to know it. Have learned its hatred of good and its evil purposes to oppress and fear. The world has learned in the words such as yours....deceit flows to the ears of innocents.
For you would justify murder for mere political purpose and religious justification in your philosophical base.
This entire justification (philosophical base) that a few men can do a criminal act representing large body of oppressed people and their political purposes is one of deception. These oppressed people did not elect them, or empower them, or commission them. This should be seen as the very first criminal act of the few men. For they have stolen the will of that people for their own selfish criminal cause.
The religious and ideological motives (again the philosophical base)for terrorism are as base as the IED placed along side a roadway that kill civilians that walk near a target vehicle. As base as the acts inside of the AlQeada torture house on innocent Iraqi. As base as a suicede bomber that walks into a market filled with children and women.
They steal the faith of Islam and caused a divide in one of the world's three great faiths. They would pit those faiths against each other. Again for their own selfish purposes. The world has learned this in the last 10 years. That is why Islamic terrorism and regimes like President A are ending. And deceptive word find fewer ears to listen.
I see the sun plainly when I rise in the morning and see the sun setting clearly in the evening. I also see an end to Islamic terrorism as countries and people around the world have learn to see it and to know it. Have learned its hatred of good and its evil purposes to oppress and fear. The world has learned in the words such as yours....deceit flows to the ears of innocents.
For you would justify murder for mere political purpose and religious justification in your philosophical base.
This entire justification (philosophical base) that a few men can do a criminal act representing large body of oppressed people and their political purposes is one of deception. These oppressed people did not elect them, or empower them, or commission them. This should be seen as the very first criminal act of the few men. For they have stolen the will of that people for their own selfish criminal cause.
The religious and ideological motives (again the philosophical base)for terrorism are as base as the IED placed along side a roadway that kill civilians that walk near a target vehicle. As base as the acts inside of the AlQeada torture house on innocent Iraqi. As base as a suicede bomber that walks into a market filled with children and women.
They steal the faith of Islam and caused a divide in one of the world's three great faiths. They would pit those faiths against each other. Again for their own selfish purposes. The world has learned this in the last 10 years. That is why Islamic terrorism and regimes like President A are ending. And deceptive word find fewer ears to listen.
I didn’t justify any murder in the name of religion, in fact in my first article in this thread I did question these killings in the name of God. What I stated(searching for a philosophy to get free) is a fact of human nature not a rhetoric to justify innocent killing. A oppressed people is weak people, it can be cheated by those who claim they are fighting for it, yet most of the time it have little options to choose from. And it is not always true that those ideological based parties have no popular base, as example Hamas may be considered as terrorist for Israel or USA but it do have sympathy among large number of Palestine ,denying that will be a arrogance .
Regarding American taken as prisoner by AL Qeada, I did reply it in my so called rhetoric
described by you ( you cannot compare yourself by someone who you think are wrong, it doesn’t help you to make a great case).I can only add that by questioning their behavior you cannot hide the torture you did.I am here not to defend Taliban or that sort. I personally is not so much annoyed with their so called fight against western Empire , rather what disturb me most is their discriminatory and violent behavior towards women, I have zero tolerance for that, for these they should be punished and publicly humiliated.
As I stated before if you only held Muslim extremist responsible to create divisions then you certainly not showing the whole picture, you should not hide the other extremists, as for every action there must be a reaction.
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Yes divide and conquer.
Any general knows that...
Any general knows that...
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Suspected election fraud in Iran.
Boy it's a good thing we don't have anything like that in the US.
Seems to me the last thing Iran needs is American advice on how to hold elections.
Boy it's a good thing we don't have anything like that in the US.
Seems to me the last thing Iran needs is American advice on how to hold elections.
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ttom500:
I was trying to think of a comparable US situation earlier today.
I came up with Kent State. The anti Vet Nam war shootings in Ohio. Some 18 college age protester were killed by the National Guard.
It is why President Obama used the words 'just acts' of the Iranian government. He wants to hold Pres. A and the Basij militia to some standard of justice in this. What the standard is, I am not sure.
I was trying to think of a comparable US situation earlier today.
I came up with Kent State. The anti Vet Nam war shootings in Ohio. Some 18 college age protester were killed by the National Guard.
It is why President Obama used the words 'just acts' of the Iranian government. He wants to hold Pres. A and the Basij militia to some standard of justice in this. What the standard is, I am not sure.
In the interest of accuracy:
"Despite the substantial literature which exists on the Kent State shootings, misinformation and misunderstanding continue to surround the events of May 4. For example, a prominent college-level United States history book by Mary Beth Norton et al. (1994), which is also used in high school advanced placement courses,(2) contains a picture of the shootings of May 4 accompanied by the following summary of events: "In May 1970, at Kent State University in Ohio, National Guardsmen confronted student antiwar protestors with a tear gas barrage. Soon afterward, with no provocation, soldiers opened fire into a group of fleeing students. Four young people were killed, shot in the back, including two women who had been walking to class." (Norton et al., 1994, p. 732) Unfortunately, this short description contains four factual errors: (1) some degree of provocation did exist; (2) the students were not fleeing when the Guard initially opened fire; (3) only one of the four students who died, William Schroeder, was shot in the back; and (4) one female student, Sandy Schreuer, had been walking to class, but the other female, Allison Krause, had been part of the demonstration.
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Magenta: It was never about winning for me. I shall leave u wallow in your hollow victory.
Tom, thanks for yor input and u bring up some thought provoking points, but i gotta go. The smell of meat burning is making me ill.
I thought you were gone..stop stalking me..it is not my job to edify you any longerTom, thanks for yor input and u bring up some thought provoking points, but i gotta go. The smell of meat burning is making me ill.
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An example...if violent protests were held against obama being elected, the US armed forces may have 2 b called in. Deaths may occur.
The same is happening in IRAN. they have not tried to cover up any deaths.The only difference between these examples is the result is in dispute in iran
But they did't get violent, Magenta. The US ran a peaceful election and transition of power.
One of the reasons, Pres. A is having a hard time at present.
The US demostrated a peaceful transition of power to President Obama.
Still if there is not to be a cover up on the deaths, why no murder investigations?
I was trying to think of a comparable US situation earlier today.
I came up with Kent State. The anti Vet Nam war shootings in Ohio. Some 18 college age protester were killed by the National Guard.
After the shootings.....know how many Gov't investigation occurred? There was the the USARMY investigation, the Joint Congressional investigation, the State of Ohio investigation, the Presidential Special investigator report....each for a year or more in time.
The State of Ohio investigation began almost immediately after the shootings. The other three within several months.
Pres. A can use gov't investigations to control the violence in the country. If the Basij militia think that a investigation into criminal acts will occur....they are less likely to commit them.
It is why President Obama used the words 'just acts' of the Iranian government. He wants to hold Pres. A and the Basij militia to some standard of justice in this. What the standard is, I am not sure.