Zionist Occupied America (878)
SilverBirch: Thank you all for your posts.
Peace
Peace
You are more than welcome Silverbirch!
Say, now that you're back, can we get you to start the thread as you still have not clarified your initial post.
Here are my questions and then, once answered we can get going! If you need to look at the text which the questions reference then it is your first posts on this thread.
1. To you is it perfectly fine that they (Arabs)are right in going to war over their inadherence to UN Resolution 181 but for Israel to defend themselves in wars which those who were breaking UN law by attacking them is wrong?
2. Strange then why they only use violence when attacked then and, pulled out of Gaza, Lebanon and Egypt. The facts don't match this statement. Can you clarify with something factual please?
3. I should like to see some proof of this statement (where you state Zionists are blackmailing politicians in the US as a matter of course) have you any?
And peace to you and, to all of us.
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Albertaghost: read a far more extensive one that provides examples from said book and explains that if there is a group effecting US policy it certainly has little effect on it as state of the art arms sales to Saudi Arabia and other regimes are hardly iin the interest of Israel as is pushing for a Palestinian state on land Israel currently occupies.
As well, the power of this lobby is hardly that of the oil companies, arms industry and NRA so where this fallacy comes from that they are in fact steering US policy (which is also observed to be hand in hand with the interests of Israel more often than not) can only be found in some conspiracy theory.
As well, the power of this lobby is hardly that of the oil companies, arms industry and NRA so where this fallacy comes from that they are in fact steering US policy (which is also observed to be hand in hand with the interests of Israel more often than not) can only be found in some conspiracy theory.
Yes, there are exceptions. A lobby can only do so much.
The rejoinder is that Israel's political and security interests are not always persued by the pro-Isreal lobby. Many Jewish people in the US see things differently from Netanyahu and co. The oil lobby, gun lobby and arms industry are very strong forces in their own right. I don't disagree with you.
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Paldi5: The so-called Reflexive Defenders of Israel mentioned in the video - common men and women from all walks of life who happen to identify strongly with Jewish culture, can be "seen" as being a loosely organized "pack" of folks who are more loyal to Israel than they are to America because they are super sensitive (by definition) to anything negative about the Holocaust or the state of Israel and fight against these things and the people or organizations who in their view "cross the line" such as Helen Thomas.
I'm not saying it's true that there is a pack of reflexive defenders lurking under every bush or passing as students in college classrooms, just that the case can be attempted in support of the viewpoint.
I'm not saying it's true that there is a pack of reflexive defenders lurking under every bush or passing as students in college classrooms, just that the case can be attempted in support of the viewpoint.
There probably is but then again, lots of people just don't like lies to be bandied about and stated as facts or, the unrealistic and total vilification of one party while painting the other party as innocent victims.
It's a reality thing and I find it abundant here. IOf for example a poster ranted day after day on how terrible Palestinians were and how Israelis were saiints and could do no wrong and that all Palestinians were terrorists and they would never ever want peace then I would have to disagree and take the side of the non Hamas party Palestinians and then, be called an Hamas shill or a Muslim as bringing a discussing back to reality from those who are bigoted often is taken as you have a personal interest of some kind.
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Albertaghost: There probably is but then again, lots of people just don't like lies to be bandied about and stated as facts or, the unrealistic and total vilification of one party while painting the other party as innocent victims.
It's a reality thing and I find it abundant here. IOf for example a poster ranted day after day on how terrible Palestinians were and how Israelis were saiints and could do no wrong and that all Palestinians were terrorists and they would never ever want peace then I would have to disagree and take the side of the non Hamas party Palestinians and then, be called an Hamas shill or a Muslim as bringing a discussing back to reality from those who are bigoted often is taken as you have a personal interest of some kind.
It's a reality thing and I find it abundant here. IOf for example a poster ranted day after day on how terrible Palestinians were and how Israelis were saiints and could do no wrong and that all Palestinians were terrorists and they would never ever want peace then I would have to disagree and take the side of the non Hamas party Palestinians and then, be called an Hamas shill or a Muslim as bringing a discussing back to reality from those who are bigoted often is taken as you have a personal interest of some kind.
Well said.
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jvaski: If I hear the word Israel just one more time .......
I'm gonna .......!!
OMG! Are you anti-semitic?I'm gonna .......!!
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Antjo39: OMG! Are you anti-semitic?
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I'll tell you what doesn't add up - over a third of them voted against the Iraq invasion. An action which you say the Israeli Lobbyists pushed the US into.[/quot
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Paldi5: Biographies point to agendas often, that's all.
True, but not much in this case. I did find some academic refutations, however, Alberta has beaten me to it.
It's all about 'balance' as Pat perspicaciously recognised. A book doesn't necessarily make it true. As usual, the truth often lies somewhere between the poles.
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SilverBirch: I'll tell you what doesn't add up - over a third of them voted against the Iraq invasion. An action which you say the Israeli Lobbyists pushed the US into.[/quot
You just figured that out? Strange indeed. Why do you think that is Silverbirch, 'sleeper joos' maybe? Keeping their cards close to their chest until the 'big hand?'
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Albertaghost: You just figured that out? Strange indeed. Why do you think that is Silverbirch, 'sleeper joos' maybe? Keeping their cards close to their chest until the 'big hand?'
If a hypothesis doesn't add up, it's usually a flawed hypothesis. Would you agree?------ This thread is Archived ------
Blues63: If a hypothesis doesn't add up, it's usually a flawed hypothesis. Would you agree?
True but, the fallback argument of 'they're everywhere, they're everywhere I tell ya' becomes the valid argument.
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Blues63: If a hypothesis doesn't add up, it's usually a flawed hypothesis. Would you agree?
Not necessarily... I spent a bit of time watching and reading some of Paldis links... and was more convinced than ever.
Frankly I didn't like Silverbirchs approach or obsession or basically false sympathies on this issue and so avoided his threads.
But of all the links I was most impressed by Col. Lawrence Wilkerson: and then searched here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Wilkerson
Aside from my gut reactions at the time when they chastised Colin Powell for trying to bring some sense into the whole necessity for an Iraq invasion.. and then having been forced to PROVE the reason they HAD to invade (flimsy at best). I felt his shame... and Wilkersons who had to create it. Well... he has come clean now and I think has felt the need to purge himself from the whole disgusting business. I respect him for that.
As for the Jewish hypothesis not adding up? Hey Jews are people too... some agree with a master plan and some don't, as per Tony Judts view of the situation.
Just as we have Dems and Neocons in this country who aren't Jewish, we also have some Jews who are extremist Neocons.What I do find disgusting is that the Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney trio of evil, fabricated this whole dirty mess.... because they could, with support of some of the Jews, by blatant lies, self interest and maybe worse... and that our boys and country are paying the price for the bottomless greed and stratagems that have nothing to do with what was best for America... and who'll be paying for it for who knows how long.
I would call the early 2000s the years of the Wolves.
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from:
"The lesson of history is that, in the long run, super-elites have two ways to survive: by suppressing dissent or by sharing their wealth. It is obvious which of these would be the better outcome for America, and the world. Let us hope the plutocrats aren’t already too isolated to recognize this. Because, in the end, there can never be a place like Galt’s Gulch."
"The lesson of history is that, in the long run, super-elites have two ways to survive: by suppressing dissent or by sharing their wealth. It is obvious which of these would be the better outcome for America, and the world. Let us hope the plutocrats aren’t already too isolated to recognize this. Because, in the end, there can never be a place like Galt’s Gulch."
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gininitaly:
Aside from my gut reactions at the time when they chastised Colin Powell for trying to bring some sense into the whole necessity for an Iraq invasion.. and then having been forced to PROVE the reason they HAD to invade (flimsy at best). I felt his shame... and Wilkersons who had to create it. Well... he has come clean now and I think has felt the need to purge himself from the whole disgusting business. I respect him for that.
Aside from my gut reactions at the time when they chastised Colin Powell for trying to bring some sense into the whole necessity for an Iraq invasion.. and then having been forced to PROVE the reason they HAD to invade (flimsy at best). I felt his shame... and Wilkersons who had to create it. Well... he has come clean now and I think has felt the need to purge himself from the whole disgusting business. I respect him for that.
Gin, there's over a dozen reason, all of them legal for the Invasion of Iraq. They range from war reparations to not proving they had detroyed their WMDs.
None of them were legally based on any fact or non fact that Iraq had known WMDs but rather, Powell emphasized what they knew at the time which was that all those materials were unaccounted for. Blix didn't know, Saddam wasn't telling and, according to the ceasefire terms, he was to destroy them, keep records and then allow for the inspectors to verify those records were correct and, if he had any questions or problems the inspectors would ensure the right people would help with the destruction of same.
As for the actual reasons why Iraq was invaded at that point in time it goes hand in hand with the war on terror and in that aspect, Bush was brilliant in the strategy i8n opening up this front as it was the best choice to take in a lot of bad choices. Those choices ranged from the invasion of Saudi Arabia to attempting to provide 'aid' in the form of a US led coalition into Pakistan to prop up the Musharif regime in a civil war.
In any case, Iraq was the best of the lot sad to say. And,in it's goals they were a hundred percent successful.
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Albertaghost: Gin, there's over a dozen reason, all of them legal for the Invasion of Iraq. They range from war reparations to not proving they had detroyed their WMDs.
None of them were legally based on any fact or non fact that Iraq had known WMDs but rather, Powell emphasized what they knew at the time which was that all those materials were unaccounted for. Blix didn't know, Saddam wasn't telling and, according to the ceasefire terms, he was to destroy them, keep records and then allow for the inspectors to verify those records were correct and, if he had any questions or problems the inspectors would ensure the right people would help with the destruction of same.
As for the actual reasons why Iraq was invaded at that point in time it goes hand in hand with the war on terror and in that aspect, Bush was brilliant in the strategy i8n opening up this front as it was the best choice to take in a lot of bad choices. Those choices ranged from the invasion of Saudi Arabia to attempting to provide 'aid' in the form of a US led coalition into Pakistan to prop up the Musharif regime in a civil war.
In any case, Iraq was the best of the lot sad to say. And,in it's goals they were a hundred percent successful.
Talking out of your bottom again friend. Iraq was Israel's war you guys coned us into fighting it for you. Americans died for you. You know it and I and the rest of the world knows it.None of them were legally based on any fact or non fact that Iraq had known WMDs but rather, Powell emphasized what they knew at the time which was that all those materials were unaccounted for. Blix didn't know, Saddam wasn't telling and, according to the ceasefire terms, he was to destroy them, keep records and then allow for the inspectors to verify those records were correct and, if he had any questions or problems the inspectors would ensure the right people would help with the destruction of same.
As for the actual reasons why Iraq was invaded at that point in time it goes hand in hand with the war on terror and in that aspect, Bush was brilliant in the strategy i8n opening up this front as it was the best choice to take in a lot of bad choices. Those choices ranged from the invasion of Saudi Arabia to attempting to provide 'aid' in the form of a US led coalition into Pakistan to prop up the Musharif regime in a civil war.
In any case, Iraq was the best of the lot sad to say. And,in it's goals they were a hundred percent successful.
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gininitaly: As for the Jewish hypothesis not adding up? Hey Jews are people too... some agree with a master plan and some don't, as per Tony Judts view of the situation. Just as we have Dems and Neocons in this country who aren't Jewish, we also have some Jews who are extremist Neocons.
Based, of course, on the presupposition that there is a 'master plan'.
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SilverBirch: Talking out of your bottom again friend. Iraq was Israel's war you guys coned us into fighting it for you. Americans died for you. You know it and I and the rest of the world knows it.
You are kidding of course. Nice one!
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Blues63: Based, of course, on the presupposition that there is a 'master plan'.
Maybe you misconstrue what I imply by master plan.... to me it is more the connected and organized direction of a group of the very wealthy who will do anything to protect, increase and expand the power and wealth they have to the exclusion of whatever country they reside in.
read the article,
Just because you don't like the idea... doesn't mean that these people don't exist.
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Blues63: You are kidding of course. Nice one!
Sorry friend,..DEAD SERIOUS.------ This thread is Archived ------
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In the interest of keeping Jvaski's .... sanity errr ....current psychological state intact, I propose that Isra*l be permanently misspelled on this thread from now on. I propose 'Issreeel'
Agreed?
Oh noooo, not another mispelled state. I just learned how to spell Mississippi.