Zionist Occupied America (878)
Boban1: Are you saying that a super power like the USA is doing what ever it takes to protect Israel and their doing,just out of pure Altruism and the goodness of their heart???
Ummm...I think I'm stuck on stupid today cause I'm not understanding what you said...LOL!
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invinciblemuse: Could someone clarify the following for me, please:
Is someone, who objects to Israel´s politics, automatically an antisemite??
Is someone, who objects to Israel´s politics, automatically an antisemite??
Good question. I'm still trying to sort that one out, myself. I guess the answer would be if they are against Israel's politics because Israel is a Jewish nation or if they are against Israel's politics on a much, much more specific level, such as EXACT policies they have a problem with.
I'm not antisemitic at all and so I can't think in terms of "I am against Israel's politics". If I thought that Israel's actions in regard to Palistinean refugees was wrong, however, I could easily simply say "I think Irael's treatment of Palistinean refugees is wrong".
Seems to me that the anti-zionists are against EVERYTHING having tod o with Israel and related to the Jewish people; not just against specific political points.
Antizionists have blanket antipathy toward Israel; not just some objections to points of policy.
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Wow_Factor: Well, since the original poster has probably got a ban I might as well answer. No, not necessarily, but an antisemite is likely to object to Israel's politics etc.
Well, it seems to me that an antisemite would object to the very existence of Israel altogether.
I would therefore assume that someone, who criticises the politics of the Israeli leadership at present, cannot be an antisemite, because s/he acknowledges its existence and its role in politics.
Or am I wrong about that??
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invinciblemuse: Well, it seems to me that an antisemite would object to the very existence of Israel altogether.
Yes, that is my opinion too, and quite a common assumption.
invinciblemuse: I would therefore assume that someone, who criticises the politics of the Israeli leadership at present, cannot be an antisemite, because s/he acknowledges its existence and its role in politics.
Or am I wrong about that??
Or am I wrong about that??
True. There are many Israelis who criticise the politics of the Israeli leadership.
+++++
All just my opinion
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gardenhackle: Good question. I'm still trying to sort that one out, myself. I guess the answer would be if they are against Israel's politics because Israel is a Jewish nation or if they are against Israel's politics on a much, much more specific level, such as EXACT policies they have a problem with.
I'm not antisemitic at all and so I can't think in terms of "I am against Israel's politics". If I thought that Israel's actions in regard to Palistinean refugees was wrong, however, I could easily simply say "I think Irael's treatment of Palistinean refugees is wrong".
Seems to me that the anti-zionists are against EVERYTHING having tod o with Israel and related to the Jewish people; not just against specific political points.
Antizionists have blanket antipathy toward Israel; not just some objections to points of policy.
I'm not antisemitic at all and so I can't think in terms of "I am against Israel's politics". If I thought that Israel's actions in regard to Palistinean refugees was wrong, however, I could easily simply say "I think Irael's treatment of Palistinean refugees is wrong".
Seems to me that the anti-zionists are against EVERYTHING having tod o with Israel and related to the Jewish people; not just against specific political points.
Antizionists have blanket antipathy toward Israel; not just some objections to points of policy.
I hold the same idea.
I fail to see what the folk who post continual Anti Israeli/Zionist threads hope to achieve.
The continual posting of threads with dubious links, unfounded remarks and totally false information actually damages any real point they are trying to make.
Israel like very other country in the world gets it wrong at times. Sadly they are surrounded by folk who cannot or will not accept the country. That however is a different question.
To keep pushing as the ANTI brigade do actually defeats the object of their posts as folk wonder why the continual threads on the same subject and read more and see the one sided one trick ponies that they are, and then investigate the figures and facts and see the Anti lot often Misquote and disguise figures to suit their cause.
I feel folk in this world are all the same as me and deserve to be treated the same regarless of creed or colour.
But I do not hate anyone or any race in this world.
I do however, have a healthy dislike for Bigots and sad folk who cannot open their eyes and see that no one person or race is responsible for the ills of this world.
As always JMO
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invinciblemuse: Well, it seems to me that an antisemite would object to the very existence of Israel altogether.
I would therefore assume that someone, who criticises the politics of the Israeli leadership at present, cannot be an antisemite, because s/he acknowledges its existence and its role in politics.
Or am I wrong about that??
I would therefore assume that someone, who criticises the politics of the Israeli leadership at present, cannot be an antisemite, because s/he acknowledges its existence and its role in politics.
Or am I wrong about that??
Only to the extent that a lot of folk Criticise and also object to Israel often on many levels and is an Antisemite.Mind you theyoften forget most Palestinians are in fact a semitic race as well
I think that in a lot of ways the Israeli's got it wrong with the Palestinians and the way the buy up palestinian land is wrong as well but that is my own personal viewpoint.
Unlike the OP I do not see them as the problem to all points as the OP does and shows in his threads.
As always JMO
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invinciblemuse: Well, it seems to me that an antisemite would object to the very existence of Israel altogether.
I would therefore assume that someone, who criticises the politics of the Israeli leadership at present, cannot be an antisemite, because s/he acknowledges its existence and its role in politics.
Or am I wrong about that??
I think an anti Semite objects to those who are Jews. I think an anti zionist objects to the philosophy of zionism in practise. I think an anti Israeli person objects to the policies of Israel.I would therefore assume that someone, who criticises the politics of the Israeli leadership at present, cannot be an antisemite, because s/he acknowledges its existence and its role in politics.
Or am I wrong about that??
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gardenhackle: Good question. I'm still trying to sort that one out, myself. I guess the answer would be if they are against Israel's politics because Israel is a Jewish nation or if they are against Israel's politics on a much, much more specific level, such as EXACT policies they have a problem with.
I'm not antisemitic at all and so I can't think in terms of "I am against Israel's politics". If I thought that Israel's actions in regard to Palistinean refugees was wrong, however, I could easily simply say "I think Irael's treatment of Palistinean refugees is wrong".
Seems to me that the anti-zionists are against EVERYTHING having tod o with Israel and related to the Jewish people; not just against specific political points.
Antizionists have blanket antipathy toward Israel; not just some objections to points of policy.
I'm not antisemitic at all and so I can't think in terms of "I am against Israel's politics". If I thought that Israel's actions in regard to Palistinean refugees was wrong, however, I could easily simply say "I think Irael's treatment of Palistinean refugees is wrong".
Seems to me that the anti-zionists are against EVERYTHING having tod o with Israel and related to the Jewish people; not just against specific political points.
Antizionists have blanket antipathy toward Israel; not just some objections to points of policy.
See, this is the point I´m having problems with - if I´m understanding this right, you´re basically saying that antizionists are necessarily antisemites by nature. However, I´m not sure if I can follow that logic without further questions.
Doesn´t it really depend on the definition of zionism to know for sure, what exactly an antizionist is against?
Since there seems to be no consensus on what zionism actually stands for (I found both very narrow and very general definitions for the term), I´m assuming that the term antizionism can be defined in similarly diverse ways.
My question therefore is: do you think that one´s own view on zionism determines how one sees those of an antizionist?? Are those, who are more extrem in their view, more inclined to suspect their counterparts of equally extreme views?? Is that perhaps why those, who are critical of Israel, are often accused of being antisemitic, even though in reality that is not the case??
I hope this makes sense...
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patmac: Metropolitan area values without percentages from the World Jewish Population Study (2002):
Rank Metro Area Country Number % of World Total
1 Tel Aviv Israel 2,560,000 19.3
2 New York U.S. 1,970,000 14.9
3 Los Angeles U.S. 655,000 4.9
4 Haifa Israel 621,000 4.7
5 Jerusalem Israel 570,000 4.3
6 South Florida U.S. 514,000 3.9
7 Paris France 310,000 2.3
8 Philadelphia U.S. 276,000 2.1
9 Chicago U.S. 261,000 2.0
10 Buenos Aires Argentina 244,000 1.7
11 Boston U.S. 227,000 1.7
12 San Francisco U.S. 210,000 1.6
13 London U.K. 195,000 1.5
14 Toronto Canada 175,000 1.3
15 Washington U.S. 165,000 1.2
16 Be’er Sheva Israel 165,000 1.2
17 Moscow Russia 108,000 0.8
18 Baltimore U.S. 95,000 0.7
19 Montreal Canada 95,000 0.7
20 Detroit U.S. 94,000 0.7
Can' see any Majority in any of these Fred.
Rank Metro Area Country Number % of World Total
1 Tel Aviv Israel 2,560,000 19.3
2 New York U.S. 1,970,000 14.9
3 Los Angeles U.S. 655,000 4.9
4 Haifa Israel 621,000 4.7
5 Jerusalem Israel 570,000 4.3
6 South Florida U.S. 514,000 3.9
7 Paris France 310,000 2.3
8 Philadelphia U.S. 276,000 2.1
9 Chicago U.S. 261,000 2.0
10 Buenos Aires Argentina 244,000 1.7
11 Boston U.S. 227,000 1.7
12 San Francisco U.S. 210,000 1.6
13 London U.K. 195,000 1.5
14 Toronto Canada 175,000 1.3
15 Washington U.S. 165,000 1.2
16 Be’er Sheva Israel 165,000 1.2
17 Moscow Russia 108,000 0.8
18 Baltimore U.S. 95,000 0.7
19 Montreal Canada 95,000 0.7
20 Detroit U.S. 94,000 0.7
Can' see any Majority in any of these Fred.
You don't understand your own numbers then.
It says 19.3% of the total numbers of Jews in the world live in Tel Aviv. But you have to assume they are in the majority there.
NOT that 19.3 percent of the people in Tel Aviv are Jewish and 80.7% are Arab. That would be preposterous!
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gleneagle: I think an anti Semite objects to those who are Jews. I think an anti zionist objects to the philosophy of zionism in practise. I think an anti Israeli person objects to the policies of Israel.
However, the new anti-semitism is being re-defined. Now being anti-Israeli and anit-Sionist is included probably because anti-semites are well represented there too. Like a few radical Jihad terrorists makes all Arabs terrorists. Simple right?
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gleneagle: I think an anti Semite objects to those who are Jews. I think an anti zionist objects to the philosophy of zionism in practise. I think an anti Israeli person objects to the policies of Israel.
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Not an anti semite.... but every family has there black sheep.
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Paldi5: However, the new anti-semitism is being re-defined. Now being anti-Israeli and anit-Sionist is included probably because anti-semites are well represented there too. Like a few radical Jihad terrorists makes all Arabs terrorists. Simple right?
Yep
.. and they are using that anti-semite card every time you don't agree with some... that's playing dirty 
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Paldi5: You don't understand your own numbers then.
It says 19.3% of the total numbers of Jews in the world live in Tel Aviv. But you have to assume they are in the majority there.
NOT that 19.3 percent of the people in Tel Aviv are Jewish and 80.7% are Arab. That would be preposterous!
It says 19.3% of the total numbers of Jews in the world live in Tel Aviv. But you have to assume they are in the majority there.
NOT that 19.3 percent of the people in Tel Aviv are Jewish and 80.7% are Arab. That would be preposterous!
Easy FRED read the Numbers....
Take New York Just under 2 million And what is the population of New York????
Far Far more than that ....Just do the same with the rest and you will see the Jew unless it is an Israeli city, is Always, Always in the Minority.....
Not as you alluded to Fred.
With your post that mentioned HOllywood and New York...
Try again Fred
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gleneagle: I think an anti Semite objects to those who are Jews. I think an anti zionist objects to the philosophy of zionism in practise. I think an anti Israeli person objects to the policies of Israel.
That makes sense to me. It seems, however, that in the heat of the discussion the lines often get blurred, and that those, who are not in agreement with Israel´s politics only, often get unfairly accused of being antisemites.
I wonder if labelling someone as an antisemite in such a manner sometimes serves a tool to silence those, who don´t agree with Israel´s politics. Any thoughts on that??
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invinciblemuse: Well, it seems to me that an antisemite would object to the very existence of Israel altogether.
I would therefore assume that someone, who criticises the politics of the Israeli leadership at present, cannot be an antisemite, because s/he acknowledges its existence and its role in politics.
Or am I wrong about that??
Or trying their damnedest to De-legitimize it!I would therefore assume that someone, who criticises the politics of the Israeli leadership at present, cannot be an antisemite, because s/he acknowledges its existence and its role in politics.
Or am I wrong about that??
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patmac: Easy FRED read the Numbers....Take New York Just under 2 million And what is the population of New York????
Far Far more than that ....Just do the same with the rest and you will see the Jew unless it is an Israeli city, is Always, Always in the Minority.....
Not as you alluded to Fred.
With your post that mentioned HOllywood and New York...
Try again Fred
Far Far more than that ....Just do the same with the rest and you will see the Jew unless it is an Israeli city, is Always, Always in the Minority.....
Not as you alluded to Fred.
With your post that mentioned HOllywood and New York...
Try again Fred
I was kidding about 'With your post that mentioned HOllywood and New York...' no sarcasm emoticon except
I any event I don't believe in the position of this thread. There is no "occupation", just influence.
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invinciblemuse: That makes sense to me. It seems, however, that in the heat of the discussion the lines often get blurred, and that those, who are not in agreement with Israel´s politics only, often get unfairly accused of being antisemites.
I wonder if labelling someone as an antisemite in such a manner sometimes serves a tool to silence those, who don´t agree with Israel´s politics. Any thoughts on that??
I wonder if labelling someone as an antisemite in such a manner sometimes serves a tool to silence those, who don´t agree with Israel´s politics. Any thoughts on that??
Listen folks can we get back to the point of the thread as titled by the OP.
ZIONIST OCCUPIED AMERICA.
All the other queries can be done on another thread if you like, I have asked four or five times now for this and sadly it is being ignored mainly by the "supporters" of the OP.
Now that speaks as they say volumes.
Sorry invinceable but it has to be said.
Now can we get back to the point of the thread and maybe just maybe the answers I and others are waiting for.
As always JMO
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gininitaly: That works for me.
However I think its offensive for those who label people anti semitic or self hating Jew just because they are political oponents. Misuse of emotive labels will eventually make folks immune to those labels.Calling someone a self hating Jew is a desperate attempt to label a political opponent in an offensive way and is the term that must embarress a lot of good people.
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How absolutly pathetic!
I know. Great, isn't it?