gaddafi (722)
All rhetoric and boastful posturing aside, although Libya may well indeed be the next victim of the CIA's "regime change" machinery, economic realities guarantee that the US itself will not have long to wait before a greater power decides to take control.
In a sense that's already the case, as the International bankers already own and control the US (and Britain, France, Germany, and most of the "western" nations.
But China owns a most of the US debt and will certainly expect more and more control over what the US does in return for not calling that debt in.
China may not care about Libya per se. But they don't want the US to get a stranglehold on the world's oil supplies. So I'd bet that they will keep the US from taking over Libya.
In a sense that's already the case, as the International bankers already own and control the US (and Britain, France, Germany, and most of the "western" nations.
But China owns a most of the US debt and will certainly expect more and more control over what the US does in return for not calling that debt in.
China may not care about Libya per se. But they don't want the US to get a stranglehold on the world's oil supplies. So I'd bet that they will keep the US from taking over Libya.
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gininitaly: Well you're really looking for trouble aren't you?
Beyond ideology and into useful technology, how about... poof.. all the men are pregnant ....
Beyond ideology and into useful technology, how about... poof.. all the men are pregnant ....
Well that explains why my waistline doesn't respond to my greatly-reduced caloric intake.
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RayfromUSA: Yes you're right. My bad.
I forgot the name of the guy they deposed in Argentina when they installed Pinochet. Same process at work though. Kill or depose the democratically elected government and put in a puppet dictator. It's happened again and again all over the world.
And that's exactly what they want to do with Libya at the moment.
I forgot the name of the guy they deposed in Argentina when they installed Pinochet. Same process at work though. Kill or depose the democratically elected government and put in a puppet dictator. It's happened again and again all over the world.
And that's exactly what they want to do with Libya at the moment.
Nice distortion of what happened in Chile Ray. As for Argentina, you seem to be off the mark as well. Peron was elected after his representative beat out General Lanusse and then, decreed that Peron could run. He was elected with 61% of the vote.
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I must have hit the wrong button somewhere, sorry for the double post above.
I just wanted to mention that a couple of days ago Obama froze all Libyan assets.
That's an act of war.
It's pretty clear that this will come down to yet another invasion and occupation. But can the US afford that. They're already miles deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep in debt and their current occupations are costing a billion dollars a day.
I just wanted to mention that a couple of days ago Obama froze all Libyan assets.
That's an act of war.
It's pretty clear that this will come down to yet another invasion and occupation. But can the US afford that. They're already miles deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep in debt and their current occupations are costing a billion dollars a day.
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Albertaghost: Nice distortion of what happened in Chile Ray. As for Argentina, you seem to be off the mark as well. Peron was elected after his representative beat out General Lanusse and then, decreed that Peron could run. He was elected with 61% of the vote.
It's true I confused events in Peru and Argentina. But for good reason. In fact all of South America had a very similar history of the CIA killing off all opposition to the dictators it set up.
Here's the real history of the area. Nothing democratic about it.
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RayfromUSA: It's true I confused events in Peru and Argentina. But for good reason. In fact all of South America had a very similar history of the CIA killing off all opposition to the dictators it set up.
Here's the real history of the area. Nothing democratic about it.
Here's the real history of the area. Nothing democratic about it.
Guess you didn't read your article;
"Although the United States was not a member of the Condor consortium, evidence shows that the United States provided key organizational, financial and technical assistance to the operation"
And, as in Chile, where the Soviet supported Allende was going to go down with or without US help, same as in the rest of South America.
"In fact all of South America had a very similar history of the CIA killing off all opposition to the dictators it set up."
Allende shot himself Ray.
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RayfromUSA: I doubt if you can even find Libya on a map.
And I am certain that you know nothing at all about what Gadaffi has done for Libya since taking office.
Don't you recognize the same sort of campaign of vilification that the media and the government did before invading Afghanistan, Iraq, Grenada, Panama, Vietnam, Nicaragua, etc etc etc etc.
There's always a "monster" leader who is being mean to his own people, and a military invasion is always a humanitarian act.
And the stupid sheeple always think they know something about the situation because the controlled media told them what to think.
Gaddafi might get killed (very likely). But I would certainly say he has been a better leader for his nation than Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2, or Obama. And he is certainly better than the puppet Obama intends to replace him with.
And I am certain that you know nothing at all about what Gadaffi has done for Libya since taking office.
Don't you recognize the same sort of campaign of vilification that the media and the government did before invading Afghanistan, Iraq, Grenada, Panama, Vietnam, Nicaragua, etc etc etc etc.
There's always a "monster" leader who is being mean to his own people, and a military invasion is always a humanitarian act.
And the stupid sheeple always think they know something about the situation because the controlled media told them what to think.
Gaddafi might get killed (very likely). But I would certainly say he has been a better leader for his nation than Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2, or Obama. And he is certainly better than the puppet Obama intends to replace him with.
Your anti-American rhetoric is completely transparent and after reading your posts I think far beneath your intelligence level.
You seem well informed and I'm sure you are aware that the British have also frozen Libyan assets as well as the Swiss...I really doubt that you believe the Swiss have declared war on Libya or it's people...Yes I understand international banking interest...I'n just saying this isn't just about what America wants. Hell half of the regimes that are falling ARE or were "American Puppet Regimes" There is a French/British draft resolution on the UN floor asking for further sanctions including arms embargos and financial sanctions. Do you also consider this an act of war? Even Beijing has expressed willingness to discuss further Security Council actions.
All that I am saying is that what is currently happening in the Middle East is much bigger than America trying to flex her muscle and that contrary to what some believe we here in the US are not all knuckle dragging mouth breathers.
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Western media laying the groundwork for invasion in Libya.
They try to make it sound like a humanitarian concern for the Libyan people.
But then that's what Bush did for the invasion of Iraq too.
And that's what the US and Britain have done before all of their murderous invasions.
If the west invades Libya they will kill tens of thousands of innocent Libyans in the process (at least). In Iraq they killed something like 2 million in total, between the two invasion, the sanctions, the depleted uranium, etc.
In Panama, the US managed to kill 3000 innocent civilians in just a couple of days in what they called a "surgical operation" to capture Noriega and "bring him to justice".
Check out how this media talking head makes invading a sovereign country seem like the "right" thing to do and how he justifies the "right" of the US and Britain to get militarily involved.
Where was this idiot and his crocodile tears when the US and Britain were killing civilians in Iraq and Vietnam (and elsewhere)? No doubt he was denying that any such thing was taking place.
They try to make it sound like a humanitarian concern for the Libyan people.
But then that's what Bush did for the invasion of Iraq too.
And that's what the US and Britain have done before all of their murderous invasions.
If the west invades Libya they will kill tens of thousands of innocent Libyans in the process (at least). In Iraq they killed something like 2 million in total, between the two invasion, the sanctions, the depleted uranium, etc.
In Panama, the US managed to kill 3000 innocent civilians in just a couple of days in what they called a "surgical operation" to capture Noriega and "bring him to justice".
Check out how this media talking head makes invading a sovereign country seem like the "right" thing to do and how he justifies the "right" of the US and Britain to get militarily involved.
Where was this idiot and his crocodile tears when the US and Britain were killing civilians in Iraq and Vietnam (and elsewhere)? No doubt he was denying that any such thing was taking place.
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RayfromUSA: Western media laying the groundwork for invasion in Libya.
They try to make it sound like a humanitarian concern for the Libyan people.
But then that's what Bush did for the invasion of Iraq too.
And that's what the US and Britain have done before all of their murderous invasions.
They try to make it sound like a humanitarian concern for the Libyan people.
But then that's what Bush did for the invasion of Iraq too.
And that's what the US and Britain have done before all of their murderous invasions.
RayfromUSA: "If" the west invades Libya
Thought you said that there was going to be an invasion. I mean, you say the groundwork is being laid out as we speak so why the unsurity?
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rkinia: Your anti-American rhetoric is completely transparent and after reading your posts I think far beneath your intelligence level.
You seem well informed and I'm sure you are aware that the British have also frozen Libyan assets as well as the Swiss...I really doubt that you believe the Swiss have declared war on Libya or it's people...Yes I understand international banking interest...I'n just saying this isn't just about what America wants. Hell half of the regimes that are falling ARE or were "American Puppet Regimes" There is a French/British draft resolution on the UN floor asking for further sanctions including arms embargos and financial sanctions. Do you also consider this an act of war? Even Beijing has expressed willingness to discuss further Security Council actions.
All that I am saying is that what is currently happening in the Middle East is much bigger than America trying to flex her muscle and that contrary to what some believe we here in the US are not all knuckle dragging mouth breathers.
You seem well informed and I'm sure you are aware that the British have also frozen Libyan assets as well as the Swiss...I really doubt that you believe the Swiss have declared war on Libya or it's people...Yes I understand international banking interest...I'n just saying this isn't just about what America wants. Hell half of the regimes that are falling ARE or were "American Puppet Regimes" There is a French/British draft resolution on the UN floor asking for further sanctions including arms embargos and financial sanctions. Do you also consider this an act of war? Even Beijing has expressed willingness to discuss further Security Council actions.
All that I am saying is that what is currently happening in the Middle East is much bigger than America trying to flex her muscle and that contrary to what some believe we here in the US are not all knuckle dragging mouth breathers.
I'm not anti-American. I am American.
But I'm sure as hell anti-imperialist, and anti-colonialist, and that puts me in direct opposition to the policies of the US and Britain at the moment.
This is not about the Libyan people.
This is about controlling the world oil supply.
It's about forcing China to purchase all of its oil through western powers which will pay the new puppet regime in Libya that they intend to set up only a tiny fraction of the value of that oil. The dictator will live in luxury but the Libyan people will be starving.
That has not been the case under Gadaffi. But it has been the case under every dictatorship that the US has ever set up.
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RayfromUSA:
This is not about the Libyan people.
This is about controlling the world oil supply.
It's about forcing China to purchase all of its oil through western powers which will pay the new puppet regime in Libya that they intend to set up only a tiny fraction of the value of that oil. The dictator will live in luxury but the Libyan people will be starving.
That has not been the case under Gadaffi. But it has been the case under every dictatorship that the US has ever set up.
This is not about the Libyan people.
This is about controlling the world oil supply.
It's about forcing China to purchase all of its oil through western powers which will pay the new puppet regime in Libya that they intend to set up only a tiny fraction of the value of that oil. The dictator will live in luxury but the Libyan people will be starving.
That has not been the case under Gadaffi. But it has been the case under every dictatorship that the US has ever set up.
So Ray, seeing as how Libya is a member of OPEC, how are they going to be allowed to sell their oil for less than the going rate and, how are they going to be able to force China to buy through the west when China can just buy it on the open market?
Your shtick needs some facts to prop itself up.
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Albertaghost: Thought you said that there was going to be an invasion. I mean, you say the groundwork is being laid out as we speak so why the unsurity?
The "if" in the equation is China.
On a couple of occasions the west was all poised for a war against Iran, but China quietly reduced its purchase of US treasury notes and the war fever died down.
China won't publicly support Libya, that would be too unpopular given the worldwide media smear campaign. But without saying a word, China can certainly order the west to stand down.
It all boils down to what they consider to be in their own best self-interest.
China certainly doesn't want the US to get control of Libya.
But if the US dominated UN gets involved China won't have much choice but to go along with what it decides.
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Albertaghost: So Ray, seeing as how Libya is a member of OPEC, how are they going to be allowed to sell their oil for less than the going rate and, how are they going to be able to force China to buy through the west when China can just buy it on the open market?
Your shtick needs some facts to prop itself up.
Your shtick needs some facts to prop itself up.
Nothing about "selling oil at lower rates" involved here.
When the US invaded Iraq, it took control of the Iraqi oil. All of the profits are now drained out by US companies.
The same will happen in Libya. Officially, the US companies will pay Libya for the oil, but in truth, just as was the case back before Gadaffi came to power, the US will literally steal the oil and the Libyan people will see their economy shrink down to nothing.
Look at Iraq if you don't believe me.
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RayfromUSA:
When the US invaded Iraq, it took control of the Iraqi oil. All of the profits are now drained out by US companies.
Look at Iraq if you don't believe me.
When the US invaded Iraq, it took control of the Iraqi oil. All of the profits are now drained out by US companies.
Look at Iraq if you don't believe me.
Better do your homework Ray. Iraq cut US companies out of the contracts and awarded them to French, British, Chinese and Arab companies. The US gets less oil from Iraq now than they did from Saddam through the sanction era.
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RayfromUSA: I'm not anti-American. I am American.
But I'm sure as hell anti-imperialist, and anti-colonialist, and that puts me in direct opposition to the policies of the US and Britain at the moment.
This is not about the Libyan people.
This is about controlling the world oil supply.
It's about forcing China to purchase all of its oil through western powers which will pay the new puppet regime in Libya that they intend to set up only a tiny fraction of the value of that oil. The dictator will live in luxury but the Libyan people will be starving.
That has not been the case under Gadaffi. But it has been the case under every dictatorship that the US has ever set up.
But I'm sure as hell anti-imperialist, and anti-colonialist, and that puts me in direct opposition to the policies of the US and Britain at the moment.
This is not about the Libyan people.
This is about controlling the world oil supply.
It's about forcing China to purchase all of its oil through western powers which will pay the new puppet regime in Libya that they intend to set up only a tiny fraction of the value of that oil. The dictator will live in luxury but the Libyan people will be starving.
That has not been the case under Gadaffi. But it has been the case under every dictatorship that the US has ever set up.
all this assumed U.S. colonialism was really activity concerned with the cold war. most of the ME problems today are remnants of post WW 2 boundaries; as well as communist versus democratic life and death battles over wealth, geography, and power.
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Here is an interesting aside that some people may not know:
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Actually I've been trying for a half hour to find the demographic breakdown of foreigners living and working in Libya... haven't found it yet.
While they mention 'others' in the Libyan population as 3% of the total population, the CIA in 2010 apparently never saw the 12,000 Chinese that have come to light with their escape.
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gininitaly: http://www.indexmundi.com/libya/demographics_profile.html
Actually I've been trying for a half hour to find the demographic breakdown of foreigners living and working in Libya... haven't found it yet.
While they mention 'others' in the Libyan population as 3% of the total population, the CIA in 2010 apparently never saw the 12,000 Chinese that have come to light with their escape.
Actually I've been trying for a half hour to find the demographic breakdown of foreigners living and working in Libya... haven't found it yet.
While they mention 'others' in the Libyan population as 3% of the total population, the CIA in 2010 apparently never saw the 12,000 Chinese that have come to light with their escape.
Just a mere 12,000...
there are a lot more north-east of Khartoum...mostly special forces ostensibly to guard Port Sudan and the region around Suakin...(yes, of course they are )------ This thread is Archived ------
RayfromUSA: I'm not anti-American. I am American.
But I'm sure as hell anti-imperialist, and anti-colonialist, and that puts me in direct opposition to the policies of the US and Britain at the moment.
This is not about the Libyan people.
This is about controlling the world oil supply.
It's about forcing China to purchase all of its oil through western powers which will pay the new puppet regime in Libya that they intend to set up only a tiny fraction of the value of that oil. The dictator will live in luxury but the Libyan people will be starving.
That has not been the case under Gadaffi. But it has been the case under every dictatorship that the US has ever set up.
Holy Oil,Ray!But I'm sure as hell anti-imperialist, and anti-colonialist, and that puts me in direct opposition to the policies of the US and Britain at the moment.
This is not about the Libyan people.
This is about controlling the world oil supply.
It's about forcing China to purchase all of its oil through western powers which will pay the new puppet regime in Libya that they intend to set up only a tiny fraction of the value of that oil. The dictator will live in luxury but the Libyan people will be starving.
That has not been the case under Gadaffi. But it has been the case under every dictatorship that the US has ever set up.
Is that sixties Rhetoric still around?
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Beyond ideology and into useful technology, how about... poof.. all the men are pregnant ....
Well that explains why my waistline doesn't respond to my greatly-reduced caloric intake.