women (191)
RDM59: I wonder what the results would be if France were to have a referendum on this.
I think we are about to find out in Quebec very soon. They are determined to go ahead with these laws even if it means separating from Canada.
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who likes helmet hair lol.
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Im very sympathetic to the plight of immigrants. I worked with them when I was employed by social services, I also have my TESL cert. I am also an immigrant in the country I live in. However, I am expected to conform to the laws of the land I live in. Its unreasonable to expect the country to make exception for me. 
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venusenvy: I hear you RD But it is what it is...There was raging debate in Canada over Seiks (spelling) being allowed to wear turbans when they are RCMP officers. It was pretty hot. In the end the gov ruled for the wearing of turbans. We had officers quitting in droves. Many feel it debases the uniform. There are a back-log of cases being disputed now, as an RCMP officer MUST be dressed in full uniform including hat when making an arrest. The times are changing, perhaps Muslims must also change with the times? If it is expected of all of us to conform and change is it that unreasonable to expect it of everyone Muslims included?
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Malbarido: Covering their faces.
Paperbags usually does the trick for me...
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If the face covering is causing issue, then banning a headdress may be the only option available. If you are in a certain country and rules of dress dictate something different than what you are used too, you are a guest in that country and you observe their cultural preferences/ways, out of respect.
However, I'm assuming these Muslim people may be citizens of France, which again, I feel they should acclimate to the culture they are a part of as they have chosen to leave their country of origin and are now a French citizen and should be respectful and cognizant of that fact.
However, religious observance is still allowed in the home and in church/mosque/synagogue am I correct? There are plenty of opportunities to pray/dress and worship as a Muslim, but when in public, people should assimilate themselves out of cultural deference.
JMHO.
In America, there are many examples of how certain colors worn in certain parts of the country can be associated with gangs and may bring unwanted attention and even spur violence.
Kids in schools are killed for their clothing choices, shoes, etc. so many have now taken the approach of requiring uniforms, which are not inflammatory towards any one culture, group, social class..sort of an equalizer of sorts in the classroom. Many schools are having good results.
(Two examples off the top of my head)
In a perfect society, people wouldn't have to be legally "told" what to wear, penalized or judged, but utopia does not exist and the world is imperfect and that's just facts.
However, I'm assuming these Muslim people may be citizens of France, which again, I feel they should acclimate to the culture they are a part of as they have chosen to leave their country of origin and are now a French citizen and should be respectful and cognizant of that fact.
However, religious observance is still allowed in the home and in church/mosque/synagogue am I correct? There are plenty of opportunities to pray/dress and worship as a Muslim, but when in public, people should assimilate themselves out of cultural deference.
JMHO.
In America, there are many examples of how certain colors worn in certain parts of the country can be associated with gangs and may bring unwanted attention and even spur violence.
Kids in schools are killed for their clothing choices, shoes, etc. so many have now taken the approach of requiring uniforms, which are not inflammatory towards any one culture, group, social class..sort of an equalizer of sorts in the classroom. Many schools are having good results.
(Two examples off the top of my head)
In a perfect society, people wouldn't have to be legally "told" what to wear, penalized or judged, but utopia does not exist and the world is imperfect and that's just facts.
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jac379: No. Turbans are not banned in public places, but riding a motor cycle without a helmet is illegal, excluding traditional Sikh men from riding one.
Oh I see, I have not a clue for over here.. I dont think its ever been a problem.
Therefore, if women's facial covering on religious grounds contravenes health and safety issues, they don't need to be banned from all public places, merely certain situations avoided, as above.
No, they dont need to be banned, but I definately would not like to see women drivers with those on.. mind tho.. I never have..
An excercise in liberation to my mind is allowing freedom of choice in as true a sense as possible. If somebody doesn't wish to eat pork, is it appropriate to make them go without all food, or provide a range of food to chose from?
In the first instance you don't provide a healthy choice - its a case of go against your belief system, or go hungry; the latter is as true a choice as possible given that its impractical to provide a choice of every single food stuff known to the world.
The only thing I can think to reply is this... and this is the truth..
For Christmas, my work gives out christmas hampers.. now traditionally they have ham. Now, we have a little slip of paper to ask if they wish to have ham or not.. I am pc & confidentially tied to tell you the rest of the story.
I'm no more impressed with the oppression of women by the use of possibly enforced, coerced, or manipulated requirement of facial covering than I am the possibly forced, coerced, or manipulated requirement of high heels and lip stick, but the enforced banning of certain oppressions is an oppression in itself and does not solve the issue, or promote freedom of choice. It exacerbates and inflames the issue.
Yes, you can please people most of the time, but you cannot please everyone all of the time..
There will be some who are relishing in their freedom from this new law, and maybe some who have thru poor education, and learned behaviour learnt to rely on the safety of anonimity.
The last time I looked, most people in a position to pass legislation were men. What does that tell you about the techniques used?
Volumes ....but I cannot comment.
I think potential oppression in the form of face covering needs to be questioned and challenged, like many things, but this is not an intelligent way to do it. Its scoring an own goal, big time.
Oh I see, I have not a clue for over here.. I dont think its ever been a problem.
Therefore, if women's facial covering on religious grounds contravenes health and safety issues, they don't need to be banned from all public places, merely certain situations avoided, as above.
No, they dont need to be banned, but I definately would not like to see women drivers with those on.. mind tho.. I never have..
An excercise in liberation to my mind is allowing freedom of choice in as true a sense as possible. If somebody doesn't wish to eat pork, is it appropriate to make them go without all food, or provide a range of food to chose from?
In the first instance you don't provide a healthy choice - its a case of go against your belief system, or go hungry; the latter is as true a choice as possible given that its impractical to provide a choice of every single food stuff known to the world.
The only thing I can think to reply is this... and this is the truth..
For Christmas, my work gives out christmas hampers.. now traditionally they have ham. Now, we have a little slip of paper to ask if they wish to have ham or not.. I am pc & confidentially tied to tell you the rest of the story.
I'm no more impressed with the oppression of women by the use of possibly enforced, coerced, or manipulated requirement of facial covering than I am the possibly forced, coerced, or manipulated requirement of high heels and lip stick, but the enforced banning of certain oppressions is an oppression in itself and does not solve the issue, or promote freedom of choice. It exacerbates and inflames the issue.
Yes, you can please people most of the time, but you cannot please everyone all of the time..
There will be some who are relishing in their freedom from this new law, and maybe some who have thru poor education, and learned behaviour learnt to rely on the safety of anonimity.
The last time I looked, most people in a position to pass legislation were men. What does that tell you about the techniques used?
Volumes ....but I cannot comment.
I think potential oppression in the form of face covering needs to be questioned and challenged, like many things, but this is not an intelligent way to do it. Its scoring an own goal, big time.
Any form of oppression needs to be challenged. But there is a huge difference between following the law and feeling oppressed.. Rules, processes and proceedures are those means to having a controlled and well organised society. We have choices, referendums, polls and votes.. and here also, question and Answer series with our pollies.. we can pretty well ask what we want. and they, being our public servants must and do reply. As noone is going to be totally happy with results.. but the majority will win.. I guess its as good as any system we can hope for.. I am pretty sure we will have a referendum onthis subject ...and it will happen with the first casualty... the first burka driver to kill some unsuspecting person will bring that on for sure.. .. its always the way here.. we are slow and apathetic til we are forced to voice...
Jac, if you want to reply, and I dont answer, cos I enjoy a good debate as you do.. I will let you know in advance, I am off to bed as its coming onto 10.30pm. I need some
so it may have to be 2morrow. cheers.. enjoy your day. 
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Olsojente: Paperbags usually does the trick for me...
one for both lol.------ This thread is Archived ------
reb56: one for both lol.
As well, yes...
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A good thing for religious Zealots to realise the Law of a country comes FIRST and the religious belief,how a woman has to be dressed comes SECOND.-
matchbox: new law in france, women are banned from covering their face anymore, thats a law from now on, what do you think about this??
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chris27292729: A good thing for religious Zealots to realise the Law of a country comes FIRST and the religious belief,how a woman has to be dressed comes SECOND.-
Indeed!
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bodleing: Only women...what about men???
men are banned to wear the underwear 
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chris27292729: A good thing for religious Zealots to realise the Law of a country comes FIRST and the religious belief,how a woman has to be dressed comes SECOND.-
You raised a good question here ,now you have to ask, what do they respect and fear more ,their religion or the law of a country
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matchbox: new law in france, women are banned from covering their face anymore, thats a law from now on, what do you think about this??
It's a silly law. What will they do next...Ban the wearring of berets??? Never thought I would see the day when a Western Government would tell it's citizans what they can and can't wear! Shocking!
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ali110: men are banned to wear the underwear
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shotstopper: It's a silly law. What will they do next...Ban the wearring of berets??? Never thought I would see the day when a Western Government would tell it's citizans what they can and can't wear! Shocking!
so u think this is ok when women forced wear like this by their men or religion
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why do muslim women hide there faces are they all ugly:
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venusenvy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1fcgSvu6xM&feature=player_embedded
It's a silly law. What will they do next...Ban the wearring of berets??? Never thought I would see the day when a Western Government would tell it's citizans what they can and can't wear! Shocking!
Is it so "silly'??
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The Law in any country is Paramount and it has to be respected,NOT feared,and if they think their religious believes is above the law of the country,simply they have to face the consequences.-
Boban1: You raised a good question here ,now you have to ask, what do they respect and fear more ,their religion or the law of a country
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Big Bro (and Sis) is watching .....
I hear you RD But it is what it is...There was raging debate in Canada over Seiks (spelling) being allowed to wear turbans when they are RCMP officers. It was pretty hot. In the end the gov ruled for the wearing of turbans. We had officers quitting in droves. Many feel it debases the uniform. There are a back-log of cases being disputed now, as an RCMP officer MUST be dressed in full uniform including hat when making an arrest. The times are changing, perhaps Muslims must also change with the times? If it is expected of all of us to conform and change is it that unreasonable to expect it of everyone Muslims included?