women ( Archived) (191)

Apr 11, 2011 9:03 AM CST women
Lillym
LillymLillymSliema, Majjistral Malta33 Threads 3,391 Posts
bodleing: But the OP was asking about what we thought of the law, not how it will be respected.


Every country has its laws.... good ones and bad ones. I would agree with the law for safety and security's sake, but that's JMO.
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Apr 11, 2011 9:09 AM CST women
Paldi5
Paldi5Paldi5unknown, Pennsylvania USA13 Threads 2,376 Posts
France: 2 women arrested protesting new burka ban law
By REUTERS
04/11/2011 10:32


Women wearing the Muslim nikab or full face veil will be fined 150 euro; law is first of its kind in Europe.

French police arrested two veiled women Monday morning just hours after a new law banning citizens from donning the burka, or full-face veil, in public, the Telegraph reported. The women were arrested along with several others while protesting the new law in front of the Notre Dame cathedral in Paris.

The Telegraph said that journalists at the protest noted that police had moved in to break up the demonstration in front of the cathedral because it was not authorized.

France's ban on full face veils, a first in Europe, went into force on Monday, exposing anyone who wears the Muslim nikab or burka in public to fines of 150 euros ($216).

A Muslim property dealer, who is urging women to keep wearing the veil if they want to, has urged supporters to go to Notre Dame cathedral in central Paris for a silent prayer during the day, and is also offering to help people pay the fines.

France's five-million-strong Muslim minority is Western Europe's largest, but fewer than 2,000 women are believed actually to wear a full face veil.

Many Muslim leaders have said they support neither the veil nor the law banning it.

The timing is all the more sensitive after France's ruling political party, President Nicolas Sarkozy's UMP, called a debate on the place of Islam in France, a move that some say risked stigmatizing a portion of the population.

Police received a guide last week to help implement the ban. It tells them not to remove veils by force. It also notes that the ban does not apply inside private cars but reminds policemen such cases can be dealt with under road safety rules.

Rachid Nekkaz, the man who called for the Notre Dame prayer, said in a webcast that he was putting a property worth around two million euros up for sale to help fund his campaign.

"I am calling on all free women who so wish, to wear the veil in the street and engage in civil disobedience," he said.

French police arrested 59 people on Saturday who turned up for a banned protest over the veil ban, one of them on arrival in France from Britain, according to a police spokesman.
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Apr 11, 2011 9:13 AM CST women
bodleing
bodleingbodleingGreater Manchester, England UK238 Threads 8 Polls 13,810 Posts
venusenvy: I dont know if you watched the video I posted Bodey, But I do wonder what your opinion would be if you were living in France right now. Im watching our honerable RCMP institution being divided, and Canada may well be literally torn apart over this issue...I also wonder what your feelings would be were you living in Canada


I don't know what my opinion would be if I lived in France. I live in a very multicultural Greater Manchester, and for quite some time right in the middle of the most ethnically diverse part of that area, can't say that I've ever come across any 'no go areas' though.
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Apr 11, 2011 9:14 AM CST women
chris27292729
chris27292729chris27292729IOS island, South Aegean Greece93 Threads 15,811 Posts
The laws in a democratic countries mainly they do 2 things to PROMOTE and to PREVENT.Laws as you say are not unchangeable and the state of France has decided to say to religious Zealots"Am the LAW" your religious Laws are not above the Laws of France,i will allow the covering of the head,but not the covering of the face.As the zealots force their women to wear the burga,the law in France say to Zealots,your religious law,does not apply in this country,forcing your women to wear the burga.The key word in both cases Law of country and Law of Religious is FORCE,and right now the Law of the country has the upper hand.
Boban1: The law in any country is not a unchangeable constant and should be ,I will underline it should be ,in a democratic State ,made according to the Principe of democracy ...

Now don`t get me wrong, when I see someone dressed like a ninja, it isn`t very pleasant,but why do we have to force anyone to dress appositely to our concept of dressing code
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Apr 11, 2011 9:29 AM CST women
venusenvy
venusenvyvenusenvyCalgary, Alberta Canada27 Threads 20,003 Posts
bodleing: I don't know what my opinion would be if I lived in France. I live in a very multicultural Greater Manchester, and for quite some time right in the middle of the most ethnically diverse part of that area, can't say that I've ever come across any 'no go areas' though.


!/2 of Canada's poulation is immigrant peoples. However, why is it only Muslim that expect to move to a foriegn country and expect the laws to change to accomodate them? I dont see that from ANY other nationality...Again I will say, Its a very dangerous situation when the religion takes precedent over law. dunno
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Apr 11, 2011 9:31 AM CST women
matchbox
matchboxmatchboxbalzan, Majjistral Malta134 Threads 1 Polls 635 Posts
bodleing: BAN THE BEARD!!!
go to afghanistan and tell them to ban the beard
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Apr 11, 2011 9:34 AM CST women
craig63
craig63craig63estepona, Andalusia Spain46 Threads 1,464 Posts
matchbox: new law in france, women are banned from covering their face anymore, thats a law from now on, what do you think about this??


if thats the law in france then thats the law, its their country and if anyone wants to live in france then abide by their laws if not live somewhere else.
England need to start having the same thinking, thats why i live in spain.

cheers
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Apr 11, 2011 9:34 AM CST women
bodleing
bodleingbodleingGreater Manchester, England UK238 Threads 8 Polls 13,810 Posts
venusenvy: !/2 of Canada's poulation is immigrant peoples. However, why is it only Muslim that expect to move to a foriegn country and expect the laws to change to accomodate them? I dont see that from ANY other nationality...Again I will say, Its a very dangerous situation when the religion takes precedent over law.


I don't know of any laws that have been changed in the uk to accommodate Muslim immigrants. Which laws have been changed in Canada to accommodate them?
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Apr 11, 2011 9:46 AM CST women
shotstopper
shotstoppershotstopperWicklow / Dublin, Wicklow Ireland2 Threads 1 Polls 473 Posts
Rumyet: so u think this is ok when women forced wear like this by their men or religion


Who says they are forced? You are making the asumption they are with no proof at all. Most muslim women who wear a burka want to and are proud of wearing a burka. It's part of their religion. It's not for you, me or any government to tell them they can't wear it!
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Apr 11, 2011 9:49 AM CST women
SummerUK
SummerUKSummerUKWashington UK, Tyne and Wear, England UK24 Threads 8,842 Posts
shotstopper: Who says they are forced? You are making the asumption they are with no proof at all. Most muslim women who wear a burka want to and are proud of wearing a burka. It's part of their religion. It's not for you, me or any government to tell them they can't wear it!


Good luck with that wine

Thats exactly what I tried to say but was ignored.

I wonder how many have actually spoken to women who wear the hijab or burka to find out what they actually think.

The ones I have spoken to do it because they WANT to EVEN THOUGH their husbands would prefer them not to grin
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Apr 11, 2011 9:54 AM CST women
tomcatwarne
tomcatwarnetomcatwarneOcean City, Plumouth, Devon, England UK289 Threads 7 Polls 17,106 Posts
SummerUK: Good luck with that

Thats exactly what I tried to say but was ignored.

I wonder how many have actually spoken to women who wear the hijab or burka to find out what they actually think.

The ones I have spoken to do it because they WANT to EVEN THOUGH their husbands would prefer them not to


I think it should be a choice, but there is a security aspect here, I have been told to take a baseball cap off in a store in the UK(admittedly in a high crime area) so the securitity cameras could see me better.grin angel devil cool
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Apr 11, 2011 9:59 AM CST women
shotstopper
shotstoppershotstopperWicklow / Dublin, Wicklow Ireland2 Threads 1 Polls 473 Posts
tomcatwarne: I think it should be a choice, but there is a security aspect here, I have been told to take a baseball cap off in a store in the UK(admittedly in a high crime area) so the securitity cameras could see me better.


Well that would be up to the particular store or shopping mall to deal with that situation. People can wear motorbike helmets on the street so why can't muslim women cover their face. It's a shocking law.
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Apr 11, 2011 10:29 AM CST women
matchbox
matchboxmatchboxbalzan, Majjistral Malta134 Threads 1 Polls 635 Posts
craig63: if thats the law in france then thats the law, its their country and if anyone wants to live in france then abide by their laws if not live somewhere else.
England need to start having the same thinking, thats why i live in spain.
thumbs up
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Apr 11, 2011 10:32 AM CST women
jvaski
jvaskijvaskiunknown, California USA115 Threads 11 Polls 9,576 Posts
have their place in the kitchen......dunno
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Apr 11, 2011 10:40 AM CST women
FreddyFudpucker
FreddyFudpuckerFreddyFudpuckerObamaville, Indiana USA10,179 Posts
By golly, I say it's a woman's body and she should be able to put on it what she wants!












(damn, it felt good to say that) professor
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Apr 11, 2011 10:44 AM CST women
matchbox
matchboxmatchboxbalzan, Majjistral Malta134 Threads 1 Polls 635 Posts
bodleing: I don't know of any laws that have been changed in the uk to accommodate Muslim immigrants. Which laws have been changed in Canada to accommodate them?
with all your respect but these people are very very arrogant, they go and live in other countries and they want all the laws to be their way, why dont you go and live in iran or afghanistan or sudan or somalia and try to change the laws there or disobey them, they will cut your throat off, im surprised you live in the uk and you dont know that these countries still practise the law of the jungle
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Apr 11, 2011 11:28 AM CST women
SummerUK
SummerUKSummerUKWashington UK, Tyne and Wear, England UK24 Threads 8,842 Posts
matchbox: with all your respect but these people are very very arrogant, they go and live in other countries and they want all the laws to be their way, why dont you go and live in iran or afghanistan or sudan or somalia and try to change the laws there or disobey them, they will cut your throat off, im surprised you live in the uk and you dont know that these countries still practise the law of the jungle


Ummmm clearly they lived there BEFORE the law was in place


grin

Who are THESE people anyway?


Ive yet to meet 'personally' an ordinary Muslim who was arrogant and I do know quite a few dunno
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Apr 11, 2011 11:34 AM CST women
Boban1
Boban1Boban1bigplace, Central Serbia Serbia144 Threads 5 Polls 18,789 Posts
SummerUK: Ummmm clearly they lived there BEFORE the law was in place

Who are THESE people anyway? Ive yet to meet 'personally' an ordinary Muslim who was arrogant and I do know quite a few

there are some 7 million Muslims in France ,as you said, they didn`t just move in yesterday
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Apr 11, 2011 11:38 AM CST women
matchbox: new law in france, women are banned from covering their face anymore, thats a law from now on, what do you think about this??



As far as the Burqa/Niqab are concerned they are not part of the Muslim religion or any other religion but rather an Islamic tradition practised in some Muslim countries. It is also said that such attire was worn by some women before Islam existed. If I‘m not mistaken only some 2000 wear them out of the 5 million Muslims living in France.

In Canada we’ve also been having debates about this and keep in mind that many Muslims and certain Muslim organisations in Canada are against the wearing of the Burqa/Niqab and have asked the Canadian government to ban them.

We're also having debates about practises such as the carrying of Kirpans (ceremonial knife) by Sikhs and this is actually part of their religion. The Supreme Court has ruled they can be worn but not too long ago the security guards at Quebec’s parliament refused the entry to a Sikh because of the length of the Kirpan he was carrying or wearing. That’s probably in front of the courts at the moment.

We’re also witnessing cases where Muslim women won’t swim in public pools and have asked for certain hours where it is forbidden to men so that they can enjoy the pool. Some Muslim women don’t accept that husbands of non Muslim women assist their wives while taking prenatal classes. Some don’t accept a male representative when in government institutions such as Driver’s License bureaus and obligatory driving courses to get a driver’s license.

Some Hasidic Jews refuse to be arrested or questioned by female police officers; they don’t accept talking to women at government institutions because it’s against their religion to talk to or be talked at by a female. A Hasidic synagogue talked to a neighbouring YMCA about its students seeing women exercising. The YMCA listened to them and had frosted glass installed. Then members complained about not seeing outside so the YMCA took out the frosted glass and installed blinds that can be raised or lowered by its members.

I could go on and yes I’m for toleration but what happens to women’s rights, what happens to our rights, where do we draw the line because at one time or another it will have to be drawn.
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Apr 11, 2011 11:39 AM CST women
HARLEYGUY1951
HARLEYGUY1951HARLEYGUY1951PHILLIPSBURG, New Jersey USA1 Posts
matchbox: new law in france, women are banned from covering their face anymore, thats a law from now on, what do you think about this??


SOUNDS GOOD....WE DO NOT HAVE TO VIEW UGLY WOMEN ANY LONGER....LOL
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