Prove to me.... (622)
Conrad73: It is George Rodonaia (George Rodonaia's Experience) :)
GOOGLE-Search
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Thank you. Im looking it up right now to read both positions, his and the skeptics. Right now the skeptics are claiming that there was no way to know if he was dead. 
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krimsa: Thank you. Im looking it up right now to read both positions, his and the skeptics. Right now the skeptics are claiming that there was no way to know if he was dead.
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Krimsa,
I had no idea that you had read that account before as your specifications were of someone being only dead for 2 days decomposing. This is why I have pushed you to give me very specific and not general criteria to use. You really have changed several times. I would truly prefer that once again, you would just outline criteria of which you think is fair and let's both see if we can come up to an agreement, even if you told me that you did this earlier. Just refresh my mind please.
Certainly 3 days in a morgue after clinical death has been established and then the body coming back to life on it's own without medical science jumpstarting it, is rather beyond the realms of medical science know how as we know it. Spontaneously coming back to life? You would have to admit that as rather odd, wouldn't you? CPR was not done. How would you explain it when this atheist literally states that he had a personal experience with God? There is nothing in science to explain that phenomenon. For an avowed atheist such as George Rodonaia, a neuropathologist working for the Soviet Academy of Science and a research psychiatrist at the University of Moscow. He was a man of earthly science and yet he lay dead in a morgue and his mind was still going and living experiences? Evidently, the mind is something separate from the brain, perhaps the mind or spirit or soul what some may call it...just inhabits the brain and perhaps it what gives the body the spark of life to be alive. Because if someone is brain dead and they come back to life and tell what went on while they were clinically dead, that should prove that there is something more out there. Perhaps the saying, "God gives life and God taketh life" does come into play here.
I doubt truly that a person who does not believe in God that you would ever acknowledge the existence of God, even based on Rodonaia's experience. Because the experience of God is very personal and manifest itself in different experiences in life for everyone, although some have similar but not identical experiences. If you ever have a NDE personal experience yourself, I have a feeling that you would be trying to convince everyone of the existence of God rather than the non existence.JMO here Krim. I would hope that no one would discredit your experience and insist that it cannot be.
I had no idea that you had read that account before as your specifications were of someone being only dead for 2 days decomposing. This is why I have pushed you to give me very specific and not general criteria to use. You really have changed several times. I would truly prefer that once again, you would just outline criteria of which you think is fair and let's both see if we can come up to an agreement, even if you told me that you did this earlier. Just refresh my mind please.
Certainly 3 days in a morgue after clinical death has been established and then the body coming back to life on it's own without medical science jumpstarting it, is rather beyond the realms of medical science know how as we know it. Spontaneously coming back to life? You would have to admit that as rather odd, wouldn't you? CPR was not done. How would you explain it when this atheist literally states that he had a personal experience with God? There is nothing in science to explain that phenomenon. For an avowed atheist such as George Rodonaia, a neuropathologist working for the Soviet Academy of Science and a research psychiatrist at the University of Moscow. He was a man of earthly science and yet he lay dead in a morgue and his mind was still going and living experiences? Evidently, the mind is something separate from the brain, perhaps the mind or spirit or soul what some may call it...just inhabits the brain and perhaps it what gives the body the spark of life to be alive. Because if someone is brain dead and they come back to life and tell what went on while they were clinically dead, that should prove that there is something more out there. Perhaps the saying, "God gives life and God taketh life" does come into play here.
I doubt truly that a person who does not believe in God that you would ever acknowledge the existence of God, even based on Rodonaia's experience. Because the experience of God is very personal and manifest itself in different experiences in life for everyone, although some have similar but not identical experiences. If you ever have a NDE personal experience yourself, I have a feeling that you would be trying to convince everyone of the existence of God rather than the non existence.JMO here Krim. I would hope that no one would discredit your experience and insist that it cannot be.
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George Rodonaia's Account of His Episode With an Infant During His NDE
More information concerning George's NDE account is described in Dr. Melvin Morse and Paul Perry's book entitled Transformed by the Light. Dr. Morse refers to George by his Russian name "Yuri". The following is an excerpt of Transformed by the Light which describes George's observation of an infant while George is out of his body.
"[During Yuri's NDE, he] could go visit his family. He saw his grieving wife and their two sons, both too small to understand that their father had been killed.
"Then he visited his next-door neighbor. They had a new child, born a couple of days before Yuri's "death." Yuri could tell that they were upset by what happened to him. But they were especially distressed by the fact that their child would not stop crying.
"No matter what they did he continued to cry. When he slept it was short and fitful and then he would awaken, crying again. They had taken him back to the doctors but they were stumped. All the usual things such as colic were ruled out and they sent them home hoping the baby would eventually settle down.
"While there in this disembodied state, Yuri discovered something:
"l could talk to the baby. It was amazing. I could not talk to the parents - my friends - but I could talk to the little boy who had just been born. I asked him what was wrong. No words were exchanged, but I asked him maybe through telepathy what was wrong. He told me that his arm hurt. And when he told me that, I was able to see that the bone was twisted and broken."
"The baby had a greenstick fracture, a break in the bone in his arm probably cause by having been twisted during childbirth. Now Yuri and the baby knew what was wrong, but neither had the ability to communicate the problem to the parents.
"Eventually the doctor from Moscow came to perform the autopsy on Yuri. When they moved his body from the cabinet to a gurney, his eyes flickered. The doctor became suspicious and examined his eyes. When they responded to light, he was immediately wheeled to emergency surgery and saved.
"Yuri told his family about being "dead." No one believed him until he began to provide details about what he saw during his travels out of body. Then they became less skeptical. His diagnosis on the baby next door did the trick. He told of visiting them that night and of their concern over their new child. He told them that he had talked to the baby and discovered that he had a greenstick fracture of his arm. The parents took the child to a doctor and he x-rayed the arm only to discover that Yuri's very long-distance diagnosis was right."
More information concerning George's NDE account is described in Dr. Melvin Morse and Paul Perry's book entitled Transformed by the Light. Dr. Morse refers to George by his Russian name "Yuri". The following is an excerpt of Transformed by the Light which describes George's observation of an infant while George is out of his body.
"[During Yuri's NDE, he] could go visit his family. He saw his grieving wife and their two sons, both too small to understand that their father had been killed.
"Then he visited his next-door neighbor. They had a new child, born a couple of days before Yuri's "death." Yuri could tell that they were upset by what happened to him. But they were especially distressed by the fact that their child would not stop crying.
"No matter what they did he continued to cry. When he slept it was short and fitful and then he would awaken, crying again. They had taken him back to the doctors but they were stumped. All the usual things such as colic were ruled out and they sent them home hoping the baby would eventually settle down.
"While there in this disembodied state, Yuri discovered something:
"l could talk to the baby. It was amazing. I could not talk to the parents - my friends - but I could talk to the little boy who had just been born. I asked him what was wrong. No words were exchanged, but I asked him maybe through telepathy what was wrong. He told me that his arm hurt. And when he told me that, I was able to see that the bone was twisted and broken."
"The baby had a greenstick fracture, a break in the bone in his arm probably cause by having been twisted during childbirth. Now Yuri and the baby knew what was wrong, but neither had the ability to communicate the problem to the parents.
"Eventually the doctor from Moscow came to perform the autopsy on Yuri. When they moved his body from the cabinet to a gurney, his eyes flickered. The doctor became suspicious and examined his eyes. When they responded to light, he was immediately wheeled to emergency surgery and saved.
"Yuri told his family about being "dead." No one believed him until he began to provide details about what he saw during his travels out of body. Then they became less skeptical. His diagnosis on the baby next door did the trick. He told of visiting them that night and of their concern over their new child. He told them that he had talked to the baby and discovered that he had a greenstick fracture of his arm. The parents took the child to a doctor and he x-rayed the arm only to discover that Yuri's very long-distance diagnosis was right."
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In response to: I had no idea that you had read that account before as your specifications were of someone being only dead for 2 days
When did I say 2 days? I said LONGER than any recorded medical account. Besides, we do not know if this man was dead. He may have been thought to be dead. He was also put into cold storage and we already discussed that. Yes I would be MUCH more impressed with a person who had been at room temperature for a period of time LONGER than ANYTHING on record previously. Please read what I say.
In response to: This is why I have pushed you to give me very specific and not general criteria to use.
How much more specific can that be? Why don’t you give me a criteria that you consider specific (not a baby revived after 8 minutes) and I will tell you if that sounds reasonable to me? Will that satisfy you?
In response to: You really have changed several times.
I challenge you to quote even once when I have ever changed a criteria from one thing to another. Go ahead and quote it. I will await that on your next post. And what of my question posed to you? Were you going to answer that?
In response to: I would truly prefer that once again, you would just outline criteria of which you think is fair
This is the third time I have done this. A person who has been dead (we are certain they are dead) for a period of time LONGER than anything previously recorded. I would also like them NOT to be in cold storage or in the throes of hypothermia AT ALL. I think I have stated this in about three posts now.
In response to: Certainly 3 days in a morgue after clinical death
We do not know if he was dead. That’s what I am trying to find out right now.
"In 1937, while researching folklore in Haiti, Zora Neale Hurston encountered the case of a woman that appeared in a village, and a family claimed she was Felicia Felix-Mentor, a relative who had died and been buried in 1907 at the age of 29. Hurston pursued rumors that the affected persons were given powerful drugs, but she was unable to locate individuals willing to offer much information. She wrote:
“ What is more, if science ever gets to the bottom of Voodoo in Haiti and Africa, it will be found that some important medical secrets, still unknown to medical science, give it its power, rather than gestures of ceremony."
In response to: Spontaneously coming back to life?
But we do not know that this happened with this man. He might not have been dead and then he was placed in cold storage.
In response to: You would have to admit that as rather odd, wouldn't you?
If he wasn’t dead?
In response to: How would you explain it when this atheist literally states that he had a personal experience with God?
It sounds like a story that Christians would latch onto. How come it just happens to be a Christian god he speaks of?
In response to: There is nothing in science to explain that phenomenon.
Except that if he was not dead?
In response to: Because if someone is brain dead and they come back to life and tell what went on while they were clinically dead, that should prove that there is something more out there. Perhaps the saying, "God gives life and God taketh life" does come into play here.
Aren’t you reading your OWN beliefs in god into his experience?
In response to: I doubt truly that a person who does not believe in God that you would ever acknowledge the existence of God, even based on Rodonaia's experience.
But why do you assume I don’t believe in god? Simply because I do not accept the notion of the God of Abraham? Isn’t that somewhat presumptuous on your part? What makes you think that if this man's experience was real that he would automatically experience your same perception of god? Isn’t that convenient?
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Another man's experience with the existence of God. Here, this man's body was already disintegrating without being put in a refrigerated morgue. Perhaps this may fit the decomposing criteria of which you were referring to. I'm trying to piece together all of the changing criteria you had mentioned and show you that there are events that occur amongst humans that are above the realm of science and defy scientific logic. These are the experiences that prove God's existence. Something that is not tangible to touch but yet spiritually occurs that no science can explain.
Emanuel Tuwagirairmana lived as a Christian in Rwanda. During the Rwanda genocide of 1994, he was seriously injured and, together with ten other people, hid in a school. The wounds on his body grew worse and one morning his friends realized he had died. They could not bury him as it was very dangerous to move out of the school. They hid in Kabwai School in Gitarama town, about 45km from the capital Kigali. They wrapped his body in a bed cover as his body was smelling and fluids were coming out of it. The situation lasted for seven days!
Emanuel had a near-death experience and was taken to heaven. He says he did not know how he got out of his body; but, suddenly he just saw a man at a gate. The man told him that he was an angel and that they were standing at the gate to heaven.
There, he met Christ who presented himself to Emanuel in two forms: first, with a body of scars, and second, with a perfect body.
Jesus brought Emanuel back to Rwanda in the very house where his dead body was. They stood up in the room and no one could see them. Jesus showed Emanuel his dead body. It looked terrible. Jesus told him that one day after his visit in heaven, he will go back in that body.
His friends could not believe their eyes when they saw Emanuel's rotten body shaking and the straps getting loose.
One of Emanuel's arms had a part that had been eaten by maggots which was causing the arm to almost fall off. He was then taken to a hospital in Kigali.
The rest of the story goes that a doctor in Australia was able to save his arm.
I cut down the story Krimsa as it was a very spiritual experience for this man. Since none of us walks in the shoes of the people who experience these bodily revivals, we only can rely on their NDE. In this man's case...7 days with the maggots eating him up and with dead body fluids oozing out of him is very compelling.
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Emanuel Tuwagirairmana lived as a Christian in Rwanda. During the Rwanda genocide of 1994, he was seriously injured and, together with ten other people, hid in a school. The wounds on his body grew worse and one morning his friends realized he had died. They could not bury him as it was very dangerous to move out of the school. They hid in Kabwai School in Gitarama town, about 45km from the capital Kigali. They wrapped his body in a bed cover as his body was smelling and fluids were coming out of it. The situation lasted for seven days!
Emanuel had a near-death experience and was taken to heaven. He says he did not know how he got out of his body; but, suddenly he just saw a man at a gate. The man told him that he was an angel and that they were standing at the gate to heaven.
There, he met Christ who presented himself to Emanuel in two forms: first, with a body of scars, and second, with a perfect body.
Jesus brought Emanuel back to Rwanda in the very house where his dead body was. They stood up in the room and no one could see them. Jesus showed Emanuel his dead body. It looked terrible. Jesus told him that one day after his visit in heaven, he will go back in that body.
His friends could not believe their eyes when they saw Emanuel's rotten body shaking and the straps getting loose.
One of Emanuel's arms had a part that had been eaten by maggots which was causing the arm to almost fall off. He was then taken to a hospital in Kigali.
The rest of the story goes that a doctor in Australia was able to save his arm.
I cut down the story Krimsa as it was a very spiritual experience for this man. Since none of us walks in the shoes of the people who experience these bodily revivals, we only can rely on their NDE. In this man's case...7 days with the maggots eating him up and with dead body fluids oozing out of him is very compelling.
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Thank you Conrad for fixing the site for George Rodonaias. I'm not as computer saavy for fixing sites. Appreciate your help. 
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I have updated the article on clinical death. Clinical means "based on direct observation of the patient" or "very objective and devoid of emotion; analytical". And death is defined, in the US at least, by the UDDA: "irreversible cessation of circulatory and respiratory functions, or the irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem". Of course clinicians are only human, so clinical mistakes are made. But by definition (and US state laws), you don't survive clinical death unless a mistake was made in the clinical determination of death. The general public, press, and even some clinicians, just incorrectly refer to a temporary cessation of circulatory and respiratory functions as "clinical death"
Skeptic06 00:26, 3 January 2007 (UTC)Skeptic06
Hrmmm. This might be part of the problem right here.
Skeptic06 00:26, 3 January 2007 (UTC)Skeptic06
Hrmmm. This might be part of the problem right here.
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LILLYLADY: Thank you Conrad for fixing the site for George Rodonaias. I'm not as computer saavy for fixing sites. Appreciate your help.
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LILLYLADY: Another man's experience with the existence of God. Here, this man's body was already disintegrating without being put in a refrigerated morgue. Perhaps this may fit the decomposing criteria of which you were referring to. I'm trying to piece together all of the changing criteria you had mentioned and show you that there are events that occur amongst humans that are above the realm of science and defy scientific logic. These are the experiences that prove God's existence. Something that is not tangible to touch but yet spiritually occurs that no science can explain.
Emanuel Tuwagirairmana lived as a Christian in Rwanda. During the Rwanda genocide of 1994, he was seriously injured and, together with ten other people, hid in a school. The wounds on his body grew worse and one morning his friends realized he had died. They could not bury him as it was very dangerous to move out of the school. They hid in Kabwai School in Gitarama town, about 45km from the capital Kigali. They wrapped his body in a bed cover as his body was smelling and fluids were coming out of it. The situation lasted for seven days!
Emanuel had a near-death experience and was taken to heaven. He says he did not know how he got out of his body; but, suddenly he just saw a man at a gate. The man told him that he was an angel and that they were standing at the gate to heaven.
There, he met Christ who presented himself to Emanuel in two forms: first, with a body of scars, and second, with a perfect body.
Jesus brought Emanuel back to Rwanda in the very house where his dead body was. They stood up in the room and no one could see them. Jesus showed Emanuel his dead body. It looked terrible. Jesus told him that one day after his visit in heaven, he will go back in that body.
His friends could not believe their eyes when they saw Emanuel's rotten body shaking and the straps getting loose.
One of Emanuel's arms had a part that had been eaten by maggots which was causing the arm to almost fall off. He was then taken to a hospital in Kigali.
The rest of the story goes that a doctor in Australia was able to save his arm.
I cut down the story Krimsa as it was a very spiritual experience for this man. Since none of us walks in the shoes of the people who experience these bodily revivals, we only can rely on their NDE. In this man's case...7 days with the maggots eating him up and with dead body fluids oozing out of him is very compelling. .
Emanuel Tuwagirairmana lived as a Christian in Rwanda. During the Rwanda genocide of 1994, he was seriously injured and, together with ten other people, hid in a school. The wounds on his body grew worse and one morning his friends realized he had died. They could not bury him as it was very dangerous to move out of the school. They hid in Kabwai School in Gitarama town, about 45km from the capital Kigali. They wrapped his body in a bed cover as his body was smelling and fluids were coming out of it. The situation lasted for seven days!
Emanuel had a near-death experience and was taken to heaven. He says he did not know how he got out of his body; but, suddenly he just saw a man at a gate. The man told him that he was an angel and that they were standing at the gate to heaven.
There, he met Christ who presented himself to Emanuel in two forms: first, with a body of scars, and second, with a perfect body.
Jesus brought Emanuel back to Rwanda in the very house where his dead body was. They stood up in the room and no one could see them. Jesus showed Emanuel his dead body. It looked terrible. Jesus told him that one day after his visit in heaven, he will go back in that body.
His friends could not believe their eyes when they saw Emanuel's rotten body shaking and the straps getting loose.
One of Emanuel's arms had a part that had been eaten by maggots which was causing the arm to almost fall off. He was then taken to a hospital in Kigali.
The rest of the story goes that a doctor in Australia was able to save his arm.
I cut down the story Krimsa as it was a very spiritual experience for this man. Since none of us walks in the shoes of the people who experience these bodily revivals, we only can rely on their NDE. In this man's case...7 days with the maggots eating him up and with dead body fluids oozing out of him is very compelling. .
LILLYLADY I don't know..., lillylady, I still don't think he was dead enough for krimsa.
I think I know what might help her...
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She needs to get laid.
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Your criteria as you listed it at one point is the following. Is this the criteria of which you want to use? How about this.
Breaking any recorded medical records for length of time that someone was clinically dead. That would fall into the realm of "defying medical science" as you stated.(Quote Krimsa)
It's very broad and you only want a proof of something that breaks the current medical record as proof of the existence of God? So death is death without any other mitigating external factors but the criteria is in the realm of defying medical science. So if all functions including brain stem function have ceased and a person or animal is brought back to life either by man or by themselves, then this is considered OK by your explanation of the above. Yes? Or is there anything else you wish to add to your criteria?
Breaking any recorded medical records for length of time that someone was clinically dead. That would fall into the realm of "defying medical science" as you stated.(Quote Krimsa)
It's very broad and you only want a proof of something that breaks the current medical record as proof of the existence of God? So death is death without any other mitigating external factors but the criteria is in the realm of defying medical science. So if all functions including brain stem function have ceased and a person or animal is brought back to life either by man or by themselves, then this is considered OK by your explanation of the above. Yes? Or is there anything else you wish to add to your criteria?
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Dusty45: She needs to get laid.
Aw Dusty, that's cruel!
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Dusty45: She needs to get laid.
Well I guess it beats being "dusty" down there....oops sorry. That was really bad.
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LILLYLADY: Your criteria as you listed it at one point is the following. Is this the criteria of which you want to use? How about this.
Breaking any recorded medical records for length of time that someone was clinically dead. That would fall into the realm of "defying medical science" as you stated.(Quote Krimsa)
It's very broad and you only want a proof of something that breaks the current medical record as proof of the existence of God? So death is death without any other mitigating external factors but the criteria is in the realm of defying medical science. So if all functions including brain stem function have ceased and a person or animal is brought back to life either by man or by themselves, then this is considered OK by your explanation of the above. Yes? Or is there anything else you wish to add to your criteria?
Breaking any recorded medical records for length of time that someone was clinically dead. That would fall into the realm of "defying medical science" as you stated.(Quote Krimsa)
It's very broad and you only want a proof of something that breaks the current medical record as proof of the existence of God? So death is death without any other mitigating external factors but the criteria is in the realm of defying medical science. So if all functions including brain stem function have ceased and a person or animal is brought back to life either by man or by themselves, then this is considered OK by your explanation of the above. Yes? Or is there anything else you wish to add to your criteria?
How is that changing? You told me it was not specific enough so I said well does this satisfy you? How would that be me changing?
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Dusty45: LILLYLADY
I don't know..., lillylady, I still don't think he was dead enough for krimsa.
I think I know what might help her...
I don't know..., lillylady, I still don't think he was dead enough for krimsa.
I think I know what might help her...
The skeptics noted this or are you only willing to read one side of the debate? I read both.
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Thought I would add this as the icing on the cake. Its very interesting.
SKEPTIC: By looking at human behavior as objectively as I can, from an anthropological perspective, all paths lead me to support the hypothesis that God is the combination of projection and transference of a given culture's (and individual's) ideals and ideal relationships onto an unseen (yet psychically, very real) entity. Borrowing from analytic psychology, what I believe happens is the creation (or greater potentiation) of a complex, charged emotional contents with attendant thoughts and images, continually reinforced through normal operant techniques through institutions such as churches and their various rituals.
My latest thinking on the topic of God is that it's hard to look at the DNA sequence for a particular trait (speaking as a software engineer), and not say, "You know, that looks a lot like machine code! And that, in turn, presupposes a programmer, a Creator!" At the same time, this is far removed from the idea of a personal, loving, Christian God who cares about us individually and will somehow rescue us from extermination at death.
Don't get me wrong: I very much hope that there is a loving God, but in light of what I know of neuroscience, it seems unlikely. It seems much more likely that we are the miraculous products of natural selection. I also believe that religion is very much man-made, and that if God does exist, he appears to be utterly and absolutely silent, having nothing to do with humankind, other than in man's dreams, hopes, and fantasies (though these are products of man's minds). I don't say any of this to be disrespectful, and I'm painfully aware of how emotional an issue religion is, but I say it in the spirit of honest exploration.
KEVIN WILLIAMS: NDE reports support much, if not all, of what you are saying. Man did create religion and the idea of god(s). And the idea of a Master DNA programmer God does seem much more likely and impersonal compared to the Christian idea of God.
The only realistic answer to the question, "What is God?", is that God is only a term that represents whatever you want it to mean. Many Christians believe God is a divine Father. Hindus believe God (Brahman) to be life manifesting itself everywhere with no exceptions. Cave men may have believed God to be the sun. To tribal cults, God may be a stone statue. Certainly, people throughout history believed things that seem utterly ridiculous to our enlightened minds. As stated previously, the idea of God has so many different meanings to different people that it is really useless to talk about the idea of a God unless a consensus is reached on it's definition.
NDErs have much to say about their experience with God. Many times I have read NDE reports where experiencers say that God is a reality that words alone cannot adequately describe. Most of the time, we hear descriptive words such as love, life, light, all, source, force, one, mind, consciousness, vibration, spirit, being, etc. But, according to many experiencers, even these descriptions are woefully inadequate. One experiencer described God as "the light that loves." Another experiencer, Chuck Griswold, stated in the NDE documentary entitled Shadows, "Life is love is God. If you add anymore to this definition then you are not making it any better."
When experiencers say that life itself is God, they are stating that everything is God, or that everything is a part of God, or that all is God. With this definition, we may as well state that reality itself is God. For this reason, we should probably just assign the term God to the toy box and simply say that there is no God. There is only ultimate reality. This is what people worship as God.
"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." - Albert Einstein
SKEPTIC: By looking at human behavior as objectively as I can, from an anthropological perspective, all paths lead me to support the hypothesis that God is the combination of projection and transference of a given culture's (and individual's) ideals and ideal relationships onto an unseen (yet psychically, very real) entity. Borrowing from analytic psychology, what I believe happens is the creation (or greater potentiation) of a complex, charged emotional contents with attendant thoughts and images, continually reinforced through normal operant techniques through institutions such as churches and their various rituals.
My latest thinking on the topic of God is that it's hard to look at the DNA sequence for a particular trait (speaking as a software engineer), and not say, "You know, that looks a lot like machine code! And that, in turn, presupposes a programmer, a Creator!" At the same time, this is far removed from the idea of a personal, loving, Christian God who cares about us individually and will somehow rescue us from extermination at death.
Don't get me wrong: I very much hope that there is a loving God, but in light of what I know of neuroscience, it seems unlikely. It seems much more likely that we are the miraculous products of natural selection. I also believe that religion is very much man-made, and that if God does exist, he appears to be utterly and absolutely silent, having nothing to do with humankind, other than in man's dreams, hopes, and fantasies (though these are products of man's minds). I don't say any of this to be disrespectful, and I'm painfully aware of how emotional an issue religion is, but I say it in the spirit of honest exploration.
KEVIN WILLIAMS: NDE reports support much, if not all, of what you are saying. Man did create religion and the idea of god(s). And the idea of a Master DNA programmer God does seem much more likely and impersonal compared to the Christian idea of God.
The only realistic answer to the question, "What is God?", is that God is only a term that represents whatever you want it to mean. Many Christians believe God is a divine Father. Hindus believe God (Brahman) to be life manifesting itself everywhere with no exceptions. Cave men may have believed God to be the sun. To tribal cults, God may be a stone statue. Certainly, people throughout history believed things that seem utterly ridiculous to our enlightened minds. As stated previously, the idea of God has so many different meanings to different people that it is really useless to talk about the idea of a God unless a consensus is reached on it's definition.
NDErs have much to say about their experience with God. Many times I have read NDE reports where experiencers say that God is a reality that words alone cannot adequately describe. Most of the time, we hear descriptive words such as love, life, light, all, source, force, one, mind, consciousness, vibration, spirit, being, etc. But, according to many experiencers, even these descriptions are woefully inadequate. One experiencer described God as "the light that loves." Another experiencer, Chuck Griswold, stated in the NDE documentary entitled Shadows, "Life is love is God. If you add anymore to this definition then you are not making it any better."
When experiencers say that life itself is God, they are stating that everything is God, or that everything is a part of God, or that all is God. With this definition, we may as well state that reality itself is God. For this reason, we should probably just assign the term God to the toy box and simply say that there is no God. There is only ultimate reality. This is what people worship as God.
"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." - Albert Einstein
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I believe in Miracles and within that thought belief
It's possible that you could very well get laid. Or not, if you choose not to believe.
It's possible that you could very well get laid. Or not, if you choose not to believe.
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It is George Rodonaia (George Rodonaia's Experience) :)