Prove to me.... (622)
krimsaMiddleton, New Hampshire USA6 Threads 2 Polls 1,345 PostsDo you miss me slamming Allah on the Quran threads? 
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Ambrose2007: It is handy for those wishing to add (pseudo) scientific credibility to certain mystical beliefs, because the popular surface reading of quantum mechanics (aided and abetted by certain non-scientist popular writers) lends credence to the notion that reality is rather different from normal intuitions. This claim is somehow transmorgified into "Quantum mechanics has weird beliefs and I have weird beliefs, so they must be scientific."
But no physicist I've ever read - those who actually understand quantum science to some degree - would ever claim that quantum mechanis would support any of the claims that New Agers typically make.
But no physicist I've ever read - those who actually understand quantum science to some degree - would ever claim that quantum mechanis would support any of the claims that New Agers typically make.
Which claims do you speak of brother?
I find particular properties relating to them...these claims.
I would like to know if we have the same or "ballpark" definitions and notions regarding these ontological concepts.
Perhaps you are not familiar with Dr. Michio Kaku or Einstein?
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StressFree: Which claims do you speak of brother?
I find particular properties relating to them...these claims.
I would like to know if we have the same or "ballpark" definitions and notions regarding these ontological concepts.
Perhaps you are not familiar with Dr. Michio Kaku or Einstein?
I find particular properties relating to them...these claims.
I would like to know if we have the same or "ballpark" definitions and notions regarding these ontological concepts.
Perhaps you are not familiar with Dr. Michio Kaku or Einstein?
From universe to multiverse and religion by Dr. Michio Kaku...
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emannigol: "If you think you understand quantum theory, you don't understand quantum theory." - Richard Feynman
Maybe you should add a date to that quote. We have a better understanding of the quantum world today. His quote=outdated
I'm not suggesting that we have a full understanding, but I can understand a lot of quantum concepts...anyone can since the 80's.
I actually thought a lot about all the different quantum theories and concepts relevant to realities/illusions/manifestations/observations before I was introduced to the quantum world. Strange...I know others have too. Fractals is what really fascinates me right now.
I have access...the Force is strong in me
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StressFree: Maybe you should add a date to that quote. We have a better understanding of the quantum world today. His quote=outdated
Yes, it's an old quote, but it's still very relevant.
There's not even deeper understanding how the gravity is working.
StressFree: I'm not suggesting that we have a full understanding, but I can understand a lot of quantum concepts...anyone can since the 80's.
However, there's not much undestanding in popularized science literature.
StressFree: I actually thought a lot about all the different quantum theories and concepts relevant to realities/illusions/manifestations/observations before I was introduced to the quantum world. Strange...I know others have too. Fractals is what really fascinates me right now.
Yes, I understand. It's really cool to talk about smart quantumtachyonbeammeup stuff.
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I think people debating religious believers ought, perhaps, to ask one key question: "Is there anything - any facts, any conceivable argument - that could changed your mind?"
That is the question I would ask Mike now. Please consider the implications before you reply.
That is the question I would ask Mike now. Please consider the implications before you reply.
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Ambrose2007: I think people debating religious believers ought, perhaps, to ask one key question: "Is there anything - any facts, any conceivable argument - that could changed your mind?"
That is the question I would ask Mike now. Please consider the implications before you reply.
That is the question I would ask Mike now. Please consider the implications before you reply.
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Im not sure if that's ever really the point. People will remain Christian untill it no longer serves their purposes and they move onto something else or nothing at all.
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krimsa:
Mike are you going to address the contradictions any time soon?
Mike are you going to address the contradictions any time soon?
Oh, and I did address your contradiction on page 26. Here it is in case your missed it:
Is Jesus God?
“I and my Father are one.” John 10:30
“You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you will rejoice because I said, ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.” John 14:28
Jesus was God manifest in human form (John 1:1-14). He was one with God in His preexistence (before He came to earth), but in His earthly form “But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, {namely,} Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.” Hebrews 2:9. In His incarnation He was made lower than the Father in that He set aside the glory He had in heaven and in His human weakness He became tired, hungry, and thirsty, and was limited to time and space.
Jesus is God, who set Himself here in human form so He could die for us. Jesus here was 100% man, but Jesus is 100% God the Son.
As far as Matthew 19:17 and Mark 10:18, Jesus often answered like this because many came to test Him. “But Jesus perceived their malice, and said, ‘Why are you testing Me, you hypocrites?’” Matthew 22:18 His answers were many times worded to lead the conversation into a lesson so that those listening could here more than just questions and answers.
And no, I did not get this from an apologetic website.
I got it from an apologetic book.
Now if you would care to state your second contradiction, I will address it as well. Remember, none of your usual generalizations, misinterpretations, or just gratuitously misunderstood principles. State the passage or verse, then the contradictory passage or verse, and I will address as best as I can.
I have no delusions of grandeur here. I am not addressing this to try to convince you of anything. I am just taking advantage of this forum to expose the usual anti-Christian verbal assault as being only one side to the story. People on the other side have brains as well. And contrary to popular belief, use them quite often.
One of the most amusing things about this is the fact that anti-Christians believe Christians were born this way, or were brain washed this way. We were all on the anti-Christian side at one point in our lives, and I voiced many of your arguments much better than you do.
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It has not been accomplished based on the criteria I just listed above. Even if it had, who would take the credit for it? The Christians? The Muslims? The Wiccans? The Satanists? Every religious sect on the planet more than likely.(quote Krimsa)
If it is established that a dead person can be revived, then it is you that would have to admit to the existence of God. Sure, other religions will to but that isn't the issue because they already believe in God and miracles. So you would be the one to have to give the credit to God. I missed realizeing this point the other day as you wrote this question. It threw me off guard.
If it is established that a dead person can be revived, then it is you that would have to admit to the existence of God. Sure, other religions will to but that isn't the issue because they already believe in God and miracles. So you would be the one to have to give the credit to God. I missed realizeing this point the other day as you wrote this question. It threw me off guard.
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OH, and Jesus is God.
God the Son.
God did not create him.
Funny how you take one translation that is at odds with all other translations to try and make an argument here.
God the Son.
God did not create him.
Funny how you take one translation that is at odds with all other translations to try and make an argument here.
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MikeHD: OH, and Jesus is God.
God the Son.
God did not create him.
Funny how you take one translation that is at odds with all other translations to try and make an argument here.
God the Son.
God did not create him.
Funny how you take one translation that is at odds with all other translations to try and make an argument here.
"All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made." John 1:3
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MikeHD: OH, and Jesus is God.
God the Son.
God did not create him.
Funny how you take one translation that is at odds with all other translations to try and make an argument here.
Trinity,a Trick to circumvent the First Commandn^ment!God the Son.
God did not create him.
Funny how you take one translation that is at odds with all other translations to try and make an argument here.
In Order to make it palatable for the early Jewish Christians,so they wouldn't violate the Singular God-Rule!
Just get Three for the Price of one.And it's still only one,technically.
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Since you simply reposted your refuted argument. I simply reposted my refutation.
In response to: I am glad you appreciated my explanation.
Yes I’m assuming it came from an apologetic website.
In response to: I understand your not wanting to except it.
It’s not a matter of "not accepting it." You didn’t explain the contradictions. Did you read my post? Modern Christian scholars reject this idea not because it is difficult to understand but because it cannot be meaningfully expressed. The doctrine cannot be stated in any way that is free from contradictions. It is impossible for Jesus to have been perfect man and perfect God at the same time, for this would mean that he was finite and infinite at the same time, that he was fallible and infallible at the same time. This cannot be.
In response to: But I have established a viable alternative to just taking these passages to be contrary with each other.
They are because the only passage that you supplied that was actually from the bible (and not simply just conjecture) on the part of the apologetics was open to interpretation as noted.
In response to: I am not sure what modern "Christian" scholars you are alluding to,
Theologians of the current day. Only evangelical Christians tend to still buy into the notion of "biblical inerrancy."
In response to: but I never said Jesus was infinite when He was in human form.
What the creed denies is also quite significant. The creed was formulated in response to the claims of various early Christian groups, and so includes clauses that deny the beliefs of those groups. In response to the Arians who believed that Jesus was not God, the Council of Nicea (325 A.D.) decreed that he was fully God.
In response to: Just as the passage I provided shows, He was made low so He could experience humanity, suffer, and die.
That passage is open to interpretation. Did Jesus die by the grace of god or apart from god? “Although almost all the surviving manuscripts state that Jesus died for all people ‘by the grace of God’ (CHARITI THEOU) a couple of others state, instead, that he died ‘apart from God’ (CHORIS THEOU). Heb 2:9 appears originally to have said that Jesus died ‘apart from God’, forsaken, much as he is portrayed in the Passion narrative of Mark’s Gospel…..There is also the question of why these words came to be changed…. One explanation is that the scribes who were not altogether satisfied with what the New Testament books said modified their words to make them more clearly support orthodox Christianity and more vigorously oppose heretics, women, Jews, and pagans.”
In response to: "So Jesus said to them, 'Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.'" Matthew 19:28
19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
This is the very next passage. Abandon your wife and children for Jesus and he'll give you a big reward. Hrmmm.
In response to: "All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made." John 1:3
But how could Jesus be with God in the beginning as this verse says, if, as the Watchtower teaches, Jesus was created by God? And how could Jesus be "a god" and yet be with God during the creation, if God was speaking truthfully?
In response to: I am glad you appreciated my explanation.
Yes I’m assuming it came from an apologetic website.
In response to: I understand your not wanting to except it.
It’s not a matter of "not accepting it." You didn’t explain the contradictions. Did you read my post? Modern Christian scholars reject this idea not because it is difficult to understand but because it cannot be meaningfully expressed. The doctrine cannot be stated in any way that is free from contradictions. It is impossible for Jesus to have been perfect man and perfect God at the same time, for this would mean that he was finite and infinite at the same time, that he was fallible and infallible at the same time. This cannot be.
In response to: But I have established a viable alternative to just taking these passages to be contrary with each other.
They are because the only passage that you supplied that was actually from the bible (and not simply just conjecture) on the part of the apologetics was open to interpretation as noted.
In response to: I am not sure what modern "Christian" scholars you are alluding to,
Theologians of the current day. Only evangelical Christians tend to still buy into the notion of "biblical inerrancy."
In response to: but I never said Jesus was infinite when He was in human form.
What the creed denies is also quite significant. The creed was formulated in response to the claims of various early Christian groups, and so includes clauses that deny the beliefs of those groups. In response to the Arians who believed that Jesus was not God, the Council of Nicea (325 A.D.) decreed that he was fully God.
In response to: Just as the passage I provided shows, He was made low so He could experience humanity, suffer, and die.
That passage is open to interpretation. Did Jesus die by the grace of god or apart from god? “Although almost all the surviving manuscripts state that Jesus died for all people ‘by the grace of God’ (CHARITI THEOU) a couple of others state, instead, that he died ‘apart from God’ (CHORIS THEOU). Heb 2:9 appears originally to have said that Jesus died ‘apart from God’, forsaken, much as he is portrayed in the Passion narrative of Mark’s Gospel…..There is also the question of why these words came to be changed…. One explanation is that the scribes who were not altogether satisfied with what the New Testament books said modified their words to make them more clearly support orthodox Christianity and more vigorously oppose heretics, women, Jews, and pagans.”
In response to: "So Jesus said to them, 'Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.'" Matthew 19:28
19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
This is the very next passage. Abandon your wife and children for Jesus and he'll give you a big reward. Hrmmm.
In response to: "All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made." John 1:3
But how could Jesus be with God in the beginning as this verse says, if, as the Watchtower teaches, Jesus was created by God? And how could Jesus be "a god" and yet be with God during the creation, if God was speaking truthfully?
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Conrad73: Trinity,a Trick to circumvent the First Commandn^ment!
In Order to make it palatable for the early Jewish Christians,so they wouldn't violate the Singular God-Rule!
Just get Three for the Price of one.And it's still only one,technically.
In Order to make it palatable for the early Jewish Christians,so they wouldn't violate the Singular God-Rule!
Just get Three for the Price of one.And it's still only one,technically.
Thank you Conrad. Very well said.
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MikeHD: Thank you Conrad. Very well said.
But that's what you all sticking to,by making the Son a God!So Christianity is actually Pantheistic,not Monotheistic!
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krimsa: Since you simply reposted your refuted argument. I simply reposted my refutation.
In response to: I am glad you appreciated my explanation.Yes I’m assuming it came from an apologetic website. In response to: I understand your not wanting to except it.It’s not a matter of "not accepting it." You didn’t explain the contradictions. Did you read my post? Modern Christian scholars reject this idea not because it is difficult to understand but because it cannot be meaningfully expressed. The doctrine cannot be stated in any way that is free from contradictions. It is impossible for Jesus to have been perfect man and perfect God at the same time, for this would mean that he was finite and infinite at the same time, that he was fallible and infallible at the same time. This cannot be.In response to: But I have established a viable alternative to just taking these passages to be contrary with each other.They are because the only passage that you supplied that was actually from the bible (and not simply just conjecture) on the part of the apologetics was open to interpretation as noted.In response to: I am not sure what modern "Christian" scholars you are alluding to,Theologians of the current day. Only evangelical Christians tend to still buy into the notion of "biblical inerrancy."In response to: but I never said Jesus was infinite when He was in human form.What the creed denies is also quite significant. The creed was formulated in response to the claims of various early Christian groups, and so includes clauses that deny the beliefs of those groups. In response to the Arians who believed that Jesus was not God, the Council of Nicea (325 A.D.) decreed that he was fully God.In response to: Just as the passage I provided shows, He was made low so He could experience humanity, suffer, and die.That passage is open to interpretation. Did Jesus die by the grace of god or apart from god? “Although almost all the surviving manuscripts state that Jesus died for all people ‘by the grace of God’ (CHARITI THEOU) a couple of others state, instead, that he died ‘apart from God’ (CHORIS THEOU). Heb 2:9 appears originally to have said that Jesus died ‘apart from God’, forsaken, much as he is portrayed in the Passion narrative of Mark’s Gospel…..There is also the question of why these words came to be changed…. One explanation is that the scribes who were not altogether satisfied with what the New Testament books said modified their words to make them more clearly support orthodox Christianity and more vigorously oppose heretics, women, Jews, and pagans.” In response to: "So Jesus said to them, 'Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.'" Matthew 19:2819:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
This is the very next passage. Abandon your wife and children for Jesus and he'll give you a big reward. Hrmmm. In response to: "All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made." John 1:3But how could Jesus be with God in the beginning as this verse says, if, as the Watchtower teaches, Jesus was created by God? And how could Jesus be "a god" and yet be with God during the creation, if God was speaking truthfully?
In response to: I am glad you appreciated my explanation.Yes I’m assuming it came from an apologetic website. In response to: I understand your not wanting to except it.It’s not a matter of "not accepting it." You didn’t explain the contradictions. Did you read my post? Modern Christian scholars reject this idea not because it is difficult to understand but because it cannot be meaningfully expressed. The doctrine cannot be stated in any way that is free from contradictions. It is impossible for Jesus to have been perfect man and perfect God at the same time, for this would mean that he was finite and infinite at the same time, that he was fallible and infallible at the same time. This cannot be.In response to: But I have established a viable alternative to just taking these passages to be contrary with each other.They are because the only passage that you supplied that was actually from the bible (and not simply just conjecture) on the part of the apologetics was open to interpretation as noted.In response to: I am not sure what modern "Christian" scholars you are alluding to,Theologians of the current day. Only evangelical Christians tend to still buy into the notion of "biblical inerrancy."In response to: but I never said Jesus was infinite when He was in human form.What the creed denies is also quite significant. The creed was formulated in response to the claims of various early Christian groups, and so includes clauses that deny the beliefs of those groups. In response to the Arians who believed that Jesus was not God, the Council of Nicea (325 A.D.) decreed that he was fully God.In response to: Just as the passage I provided shows, He was made low so He could experience humanity, suffer, and die.That passage is open to interpretation. Did Jesus die by the grace of god or apart from god? “Although almost all the surviving manuscripts state that Jesus died for all people ‘by the grace of God’ (CHARITI THEOU) a couple of others state, instead, that he died ‘apart from God’ (CHORIS THEOU). Heb 2:9 appears originally to have said that Jesus died ‘apart from God’, forsaken, much as he is portrayed in the Passion narrative of Mark’s Gospel…..There is also the question of why these words came to be changed…. One explanation is that the scribes who were not altogether satisfied with what the New Testament books said modified their words to make them more clearly support orthodox Christianity and more vigorously oppose heretics, women, Jews, and pagans.” In response to: "So Jesus said to them, 'Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.'" Matthew 19:2819:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
This is the very next passage. Abandon your wife and children for Jesus and he'll give you a big reward. Hrmmm. In response to: "All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made." John 1:3But how could Jesus be with God in the beginning as this verse says, if, as the Watchtower teaches, Jesus was created by God? And how could Jesus be "a god" and yet be with God during the creation, if God was speaking truthfully?
Argument stated and refuted. Your point is?
I am waiting for your next contradiction.
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In response to: Krimsa: It has not been accomplished based on the criteria I just listed above. Even if it had, who would take the credit for it? The Christians? The Muslims? The Wiccans? The Satanists? Every religious sect on the planet more than likely.
In response to: If it is established that a dead person can be revived,
Yes humans and animals can be resuscitated from a "clinically deceased state."
In response to: then it is you that would have to admit to the existence of God.
Based on??? The fact that medical science has the capability to bring a person back?
In response to: Sure, other religions will to but that isn't the issue because they already believe in God and miracles.
Not all religions do and not in the same way.
In response to: So you would be the one to have to give the credit to God.
???
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MikeHD: Argument stated and refuted. Your point is?
I am waiting for your next contradiction.
I should be doing homework...
I am waiting for your next contradiction.
I should be doing homework...
You have not offered a rebuttal yet to the man/god contradiction? Are you forfeiting?
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MikeHD: Argument stated and refuted. Your point is?
I am waiting for your next contradiction.
I should be doing homework...
Kitchen's got too hot,hmmm?I am waiting for your next contradiction.
I should be doing homework...
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