Prove to me.... (622)
crotalus_p: How is that Ignorant ??? (Ironically it would appear you are ignorant to the defection of the word ignorant)
It was an ignorant comment crotus! The type of comment than an uneducated idiot would make. But really, no offense intended.
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crotalus_p: no1 Because you are asking people to prove a negative , no2 all atheists that are reasonably intelligent will tell you that technically they are agnostic when it comes to a god no3 now if you want people to disprove different a particular god you will have to name which one you are talking about
One does not have to prove or substantiate a negative assertion.
He actually beat me to it. The responsibility does not fall upon the atheist but on the believer. Does the expression "back to square one" mean anything to you?
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NeWildflower: It was an ignorant comment crotus! The type of comment than an uneducated idiot would make. But really, no offense intended.
sorry.. crotalus.
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Once upon a time there was a king that wanted to know what held the earth up. He called his four wisest thinkers and asked the question but none of them could answer. He commanded the four wise men to go out into the world and find the answer. The wise men agreed to meet back at the gate at a given time and day. Many months past before the wise men returned and when they did they discussed their findings but none of them had the answer. Fearing that not having an answer would anger the king one of them suggested that they tell the king the world sits on the back of a turtle. They agreed. The four wise men approached the king and as they did the kind asked: What holds the earth up? One of the wise men quickly said, "The world sits on the back of a turtle." The king paused for a moment and then asked, "What holds the turtle up?" The wise man realizing that he underestimated the intelligence of the kind could only reply, "That's it. It's just turtles all the way down."
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takeit4granted: We have to many cultures that perceive a higher power as a different enigma. My understanding of religion is vague, what is not understandable to me is the different gods for different cultures. The scientific explanation removes the faith behind religion, but is more understandable to me,,just my opinion
A very valid point and should be considered since the definition might cause trouble. So I will place for my requested argument the following parameter...
Omnipresent
That should narrow it down some since there are definitions of God that do not include omnipresent...
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a.k.a. You can't prove God doesn't exist, False criteria fallacy, fallacy of questionable criteria
Premise:
I know God exists. If you disagree, prove otherwise. Oh you say you can't prove God doesn't exist? That's because you know he does!
Critique:
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. This is the way the real world and science work. When you say God exists, you are making an extraordinary claim; therefore, the burden of proof is on you to back up your claim. A position that God doesn't exist is not a "belief," it's the standard position we all start out with until we're indoctrinated into religious schools of thought. People aren't born believing in Jesus. They start out atheist: lacking belief. There is no counter-claim necessary. Nobody has to prove the tooth fairy doesn't exist either.
Furthermore, it's technically impossible to prove a negative of this nature. I can no easier prove God doesn't exist than you can disprove my claim that I have an invisible, ethereal unicorn in the trunk of my car. I say I do. It's not my fault he disappears when you look there. Prove he isn't there. You can't.
A famous counter-spin on this argument is the Russell's teapot claim. How do you know there isn't a magical teapot hovering around earth that is responsible for creation? Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there.
Source -
Premise:
I know God exists. If you disagree, prove otherwise. Oh you say you can't prove God doesn't exist? That's because you know he does!
Critique:
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. This is the way the real world and science work. When you say God exists, you are making an extraordinary claim; therefore, the burden of proof is on you to back up your claim. A position that God doesn't exist is not a "belief," it's the standard position we all start out with until we're indoctrinated into religious schools of thought. People aren't born believing in Jesus. They start out atheist: lacking belief. There is no counter-claim necessary. Nobody has to prove the tooth fairy doesn't exist either.
Furthermore, it's technically impossible to prove a negative of this nature. I can no easier prove God doesn't exist than you can disprove my claim that I have an invisible, ethereal unicorn in the trunk of my car. I say I do. It's not my fault he disappears when you look there. Prove he isn't there. You can't.
A famous counter-spin on this argument is the Russell's teapot claim. How do you know there isn't a magical teapot hovering around earth that is responsible for creation? Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there.
Source -
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jlb684: ....
I did a lousy job of answering your question, but it makes sense in MY mind, anyway! Cheers!
I did a lousy job of answering your question, but it makes sense in MY mind, anyway! Cheers!
No worries you did just fine.
What seems to be missing here is the "side" factor is all. Scientist have spent countless hours either in pursuit of proof they are correct, or in pursuit that others are incorrect. Sometimes they even try to find their own negative proofs in order to assist in validating their proof.
What turning the table is doing is merely saying I hold this to be my truth and fact, my scientific hold as it were, such as, the earth is held in place by a crytaline sphere, the world is flat, we have never landed on the moon etc, prove to me it isn't... this is the same situation, prove to me that God does not exist and is only a manifestation of mans mind, just as the supporting crystaline sphere of earth etc.
Be a fellow scientist and provide proof that supports the non-existence. That's all it really is.
I do truly appreciate the obvious time your spent to provide your thoughts and I greatly appreciate them they were wonderful to read and made a great deal of sense to me as well.
me
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crotalus_p: On the contrary if I saw that and could be sure it was not faked of course I would believe
Well thats good to hear Crot
.. cause that means there is hope... cause there ARE going to be amazing things happen in the next few years.. spiritually speaking we are living in very significant times... 
..I have first hand experience of healing..... its real... it happens..
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I should say that there is a Force out there, and we are part of this Force that relegates the universe and our perceptions in this existence as well as in higher forms of existence.
In other words, we are God. We create and manifest. This western God concept that humans have imagined does not exist. Miracles, magic, or any other paranormal experience is not the work of this imaginary guy in the sky. It's normal occurrences that we perceive as not normal or as a work of God.
I like Carl Sagan...
In other words, we are God. We create and manifest. This western God concept that humans have imagined does not exist. Miracles, magic, or any other paranormal experience is not the work of this imaginary guy in the sky. It's normal occurrences that we perceive as not normal or as a work of God.
I like Carl Sagan...
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krimsa: One does not have to prove or substantiate a negative assertion.
That means that the Atheists are not in a position to prove that a god does not exist.
The burden falls upon those that make a claim for his existence. I’m assuming you are referring to the God of Abraham? Christians are usually arrogant enough to assume that the word "god" alone implies the biblical one. Pfft.
That means that the Atheists are not in a position to prove that a god does not exist.
The burden falls upon those that make a claim for his existence. I’m assuming you are referring to the God of Abraham? Christians are usually arrogant enough to assume that the word "god" alone implies the biblical one. Pfft.
Correct one does not have to prove it... nor does one have to prove it true. The proof is saught by those who seek the truth. It does not matter in which direction the proof is gathered it matters only that it is sought after from every possible direction.
As to which "God" I have provided a parameter to assist in the definition for those who are wanting it to be better clarified, but this is not a 'religious' debate, this is a scientific search for proof that God does not or can not exist. That's all.
thanks for your thoughts offered, I appreciate the time taken top share them.
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Shedman01: No worries you did just fine.
Be a fellow scientist and provide proof that supports the non-existence. That's all it really is.
I do truly appreciate the obvious time your spent to provide your thoughts and I greatly appreciate them they were wonderful to read and made a great deal of sense to me as well.me
Be a fellow scientist and provide proof that supports the non-existence. That's all it really is.
I do truly appreciate the obvious time your spent to provide your thoughts and I greatly appreciate them they were wonderful to read and made a great deal of sense to me as well.me
Perhaps a good starting point is to agree or disagree that there is something greater than ourselves and see where it ends.
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The closest I would say a person could come to proving a god or spirit world reality is with the OBE (Out of Body) or NDE (Near Death) and even then medical science argues these apparitions in the realm of "lights and tunnels". They can have physiological explanations also so even that is not proof beyond acceptable doubt. Maybe if someone was dead for like a day and a half and then came back I would believe them. The other thing is it takes people a long time to die. There is a window period where resuscitation is often still possible.
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Aries01: Well thats good to hear Crot .. cause that means there is hope... cause there ARE going to be amazing things happen in the next few years.. spiritually speaking we are living in very significant times... ..
I have first hand experience of healing..... its real... it happens..
I have first hand experience of healing..... its real... it happens..
Hey Aries! Cool to see ya again.
Anyways, I believe in healing power to be normal and a science waiting to be discovered...the manipulation of energies balanced by healing thoughts.
All kinds of people in the world have this ability.
I don't think it's some work of God, but the work of humans. We are much more than what we think of ourselves, and it will show in the future as we evolve on all levels.
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krimsa: One does not have to prove or substantiate a negative assertion.
Here is a positive assertion. God does exist! Prove that statement is in error. or repeat the cop out!
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krimsa: The closest I would say a person could come to proving a god or spirit world reality is with the OBE (Out of Body) or NDE (Near Death) and even then medical science argues these apparitions in the realm of "lights and tunnels". They can have physiological explanations also so even that is not proof beyond acceptable doubt. Maybe if someone was dead for like a day and a half and then came back I would believe them. The other thing is it takes people a long time to die. There is a window period where resuscitation is often still possible.
Medical science can't even cure cancer? Medical science hands out pills to ease the symptom and not cure the problem. Medical science is a bunch of biased opinions and the arrogant confidence that modern science, at least basically, knows everything about everything, and then they turn out to be wrong.
But medical science is good to have, so we can learn and evolve and discover new things about ourselves and our place in the cosmos.
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when you prove that god or gods exist then you have to identify wich one or more of the thousands people worship it was that you proved .... mucho grande task there ....
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Once a man named John yelled "God does not exist!" There was a flash of lightning and John was dead. There came a voice in heaven saying,"John does not exist!"
Who was right in the end!
Who was right in the end!
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RillyNiceGuy: Here is a positive assertion. God does exist! Prove that statement is in error. or repeat the cop out!
Sroll up. Stress already explained this one...You can not prove the existence of a god yet the burden is on you. Especially in light of what you claimed on that other thread.
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StressFree: Medical science can't even cure cancer? Medical science hands out pills to ease the symptom and not cure the problem. Medical science is a bunch of biased opinions and the arrogant confidence that modern science, at least basically, knows everything about everything, and then they turn out to be wrong.
But medical science is good to have, so we can learn and evolve and discover new things about ourselves and our place in the cosmos.
But medical science is good to have, so we can learn and evolve and discover new things about ourselves and our place in the cosmos.
So I am throwing up for nothing Stress.....
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That means that the Atheists are not in a position to prove that a god does not exist.
The burden falls upon those that make a claim for his existence. I’m assuming you are referring to the God of Abraham? Christians are usually arrogant enough to assume that the word "god" alone implies the biblical one. Pfft.