Prove to me.... (622)
krimsa: And why did god decide just to target that particular serial killer? Why didnt he let anyone know about Charles Manson (he was a Christian) or Son of Sam or any of those other ones? Why this guy? Does he only rat out atheist killers?
Did you say Charles Manson was a Christian, or did you say Charles Manson claimed to be a Christian?
If you are saying he was a Christian, then by what criteria did you come to this conclusion?
I hope your not saying that you take Charles Manson's word for it.
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In response to: Watchtower? What?
The watchtower is the Jehovah's Witness interpretation of scripture. Are you implying that their beliefs are not valid yet yours are? Jehovah's Witnesses is a restorationist, millenarian Christian religious movement.
In response to: The Son of God is uncreated. He was there at the beginning.
And it says this where? How can that be as I detailed in my last post?
In response to: Again, Jesus was not both infinite and finite at the same time.
Well of course not as that would be a contradiction. That is what we are discussing in fact.
In response to: I don't even want to try to explain 19:29.
You don’t need to. Jesus basically promises a huge reward to those that abandon their family, lives, homes and wives. I never said I agreed with everything Jesus said. We know he was a human (unless you want to insist on this contradiction.) In fact I disagree with a few notions he had
In response to: I bet you think Jesus taught us to hate our loved ones in Luke 14:26 or that we should committ suicide in John 12:25. You can read into it what you want, but that is not what Jesus is saying there.
I did not even bring any of that up, you did. Stick with the contradictions.
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MikeHD: H2O baby! H2O!!!
Well I’m just assuming hat is what you will claim. Just trying to head you off at the pass so to speak.
You dont think its the first time I have heard that one do ya?------ This thread is Archived ------
MikeHD: Did you say Charles Manson was a Christian, or did you say Charles Manson claimed to be a Christian?
If you are saying he was a Christian, then by what criteria did you come to this conclusion?
I hope your not saying that you take Charles Manson's word for it.
Well,he was consistent in his other activities!If you are saying he was a Christian, then by what criteria did you come to this conclusion?
I hope your not saying that you take Charles Manson's word for it.
A mystic is a man who surrendered his mind at its first encounter with the minds of others. Somewhere in the distant reaches of his childhood, when his own understanding of reality clashed with the assertions of others, with their arbitrary orders and contradictory demands, he gave in to so craven a fear of independence that he renounced his rational faculty. At the crossroads of the choice between “I know” and “They say,” he chose the authority of others, he chose to submit rather than to understand, to believe rather than to think. Faith in the supernatural begins as faith in the superiority of others. His surrender took the form of the feeling that he must hide his lack of understanding, that others possess some mysterious knowledge of which he alone is deprived, that reality is whatever they want it to be, through some means forever denied to him.
From then on, afraid to think, he is left at the mercy of unidentified feelings. His feelings become his only guide, his only remnant of personal identity, he clings to them with ferocious possessiveness—and whatever thinking he does is devoted to the struggle of hiding from himself that the nature of his feelings is terror.
When a mystic declares that he feels the existence of a power superior to reason, he feels it all right, but that power is not an omniscient super-spirit of the universe, it is the consciousness of any passer-by to whom he has surrendered his own. A mystic is driven by the urge to impress, to cheat, to flatter, to deceive, to force that omnipotent consciousness of others. “They” are his only key to reality, he feels that he cannot exist save by harnessing their mysterious power and extorting their unaccountable consent. “They” are his only means of perception and, like a blind man who depends on the sight of a dog, he feels he must leash them in order to live. To control the consciousness of others becomes his only passion; power-lust is a weed that grows only in the vacant lots of an abandoned mind.
For the New Intellectual Galt’s Speech,
Kind of fits Uncle Charlie and many others!
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MikeHD: Did you say Charles Manson was a Christian, or did you say Charles Manson claimed to be a Christian?
If you are saying he was a Christian, then by what criteria did you come to this conclusion?
I hope your not saying that you take Charles Manson's word for it.
If you are saying he was a Christian, then by what criteria did you come to this conclusion?
I hope your not saying that you take Charles Manson's word for it.
He's a psychotic Christian. He even claimed to be Jesus.
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krimsa: He's a psychotic Christian. He even claimed to be Jesus.
In all fairness there have been worse than him claiming to be Jesus 
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crotalus_p: In all fairness there have been worse than him claiming to be Jesus
hahaha ...
I think I am in a time warp..
I just ran in to say hellooooo before I sign off.
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emannigol: "If you think you understand quantum theory, you don't understand quantum theory." - Richard Feynman
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crotalus_p: In all fairness there have been worse than him claiming to be Jesus
true...
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Claayer: hahaha ...
I think I am in a time warp..
I just ran in to say hellooooo before I sign off.
Hi hun I think I am in a time warp..
I just ran in to say hellooooo before I sign off.
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emannigol: "If you think you understand quantum theory, you don't understand quantum theory." - Richard Feynman
It is handy for those wishing to add (pseudo) scientific credibility to certain mystical beliefs, because the popular surface reading of quantum mechanics (aided and abetted by certain non-scientist popular writers) lends credence to the notion that reality is rather different from normal intuitions. This claim is somehow transmorgified into "Quantum mechanics has weird beliefs and I have weird beliefs, so they must be scientific."
But no physicist I've ever read - those who actually understand quantum science to some degree - would ever claim that quantum mechanis would support any of the claims that New Agers typically make.
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krimsa: The watchtower is the Jehovah's Witness interpretation of scripture. Are you implying that their beliefs are not valid yet yours are? Jehovah's Witnesses is a restorationist, millenarian Christian religious movement.
And it says this where? How can that be as I detailed in my last post?
Well of course not as that would be a contradiction. That is what we are discussing in fact.
You don’t need to. Jesus basically promises a huge reward to those that abandon their family, lives, homes and wives. I never said I agreed with everything Jesus said. We know he was a human (unless you want to insist on this contradiction.) In fact I disagree with a few notions he had
I did not even bring any of that up, you did. Stick with the contradictions.
And it says this where? How can that be as I detailed in my last post?
Well of course not as that would be a contradiction. That is what we are discussing in fact.
You don’t need to. Jesus basically promises a huge reward to those that abandon their family, lives, homes and wives. I never said I agreed with everything Jesus said. We know he was a human (unless you want to insist on this contradiction.) In fact I disagree with a few notions he had
I did not even bring any of that up, you did. Stick with the contradictions.
You mean the New World Translation? I wonder why no one in the translation committee wanted their names published. And they do not support using the name Yahweh but you do. But to each their own. This a whole other thread.
Jesus uncreated?
John 1:1
Hebrew 7:3
Revelation 22:13
John 5:17
John 10:30
1 John 5:7
... are a few of my references.
And not Jesus did not promise rewards for abondoning their families. He promised...
"He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life." John 12:25
Loving God so much that your love for others SEEMS like hate. Being so devoted to God that it SEEMS like you abandon your family. Remember you have to look at the whole message.
"It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires {to do.} An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. {He must be} one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?)," 1 Timothy 3:1-5
Not literal abandonment.
You have to look at the whole picture Krimsa.
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Conrad73: Well,he was consistent in his other activities!
A mystic is a man who surrendered his mind at its first encounter with the minds of others. Somewhere in the distant reaches of his childhood, when his own understanding of reality clashed with the assertions of others, with their arbitrary orders and contradictory demands, he gave in to so craven a fear of independence that he renounced his rational faculty. At the crossroads of the choice between “I know” and “They say,” he chose the authority of others, he chose to submit rather than to understand, to believe rather than to think. Faith in the supernatural begins as faith in the superiority of others. His surrender took the form of the feeling that he must hide his lack of understanding, that others possess some mysterious knowledge of which he alone is deprived, that reality is whatever they want it to be, through some means forever denied to him.
From then on, afraid to think, he is left at the mercy of unidentified feelings. His feelings become his only guide, his only remnant of personal identity, he clings to them with ferocious possessiveness—and whatever thinking he does is devoted to the struggle of hiding from himself that the nature of his feelings is terror.
When a mystic declares that he feels the existence of a power superior to reason, he feels it all right, but that power is not an omniscient super-spirit of the universe, it is the consciousness of any passer-by to whom he has surrendered his own. A mystic is driven by the urge to impress, to cheat, to flatter, to deceive, to force that omnipotent consciousness of others. “They” are his only key to reality, he feels that he cannot exist save by harnessing their mysterious power and extorting their unaccountable consent. “They” are his only means of perception and, like a blind man who depends on the sight of a dog, he feels he must leash them in order to live. To control the consciousness of others becomes his only passion; power-lust is a weed that grows only in the vacant lots of an abandoned mind.
For the New Intellectual Galt’s Speech,
Kind of fits Uncle Charlie and many others!
A mystic is a man who surrendered his mind at its first encounter with the minds of others. Somewhere in the distant reaches of his childhood, when his own understanding of reality clashed with the assertions of others, with their arbitrary orders and contradictory demands, he gave in to so craven a fear of independence that he renounced his rational faculty. At the crossroads of the choice between “I know” and “They say,” he chose the authority of others, he chose to submit rather than to understand, to believe rather than to think. Faith in the supernatural begins as faith in the superiority of others. His surrender took the form of the feeling that he must hide his lack of understanding, that others possess some mysterious knowledge of which he alone is deprived, that reality is whatever they want it to be, through some means forever denied to him.
From then on, afraid to think, he is left at the mercy of unidentified feelings. His feelings become his only guide, his only remnant of personal identity, he clings to them with ferocious possessiveness—and whatever thinking he does is devoted to the struggle of hiding from himself that the nature of his feelings is terror.
When a mystic declares that he feels the existence of a power superior to reason, he feels it all right, but that power is not an omniscient super-spirit of the universe, it is the consciousness of any passer-by to whom he has surrendered his own. A mystic is driven by the urge to impress, to cheat, to flatter, to deceive, to force that omnipotent consciousness of others. “They” are his only key to reality, he feels that he cannot exist save by harnessing their mysterious power and extorting their unaccountable consent. “They” are his only means of perception and, like a blind man who depends on the sight of a dog, he feels he must leash them in order to live. To control the consciousness of others becomes his only passion; power-lust is a weed that grows only in the vacant lots of an abandoned mind.
For the New Intellectual Galt’s Speech,
Kind of fits Uncle Charlie and many others!
uhhh...
What?
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crotalus_p: In all fairness there have been worse than him claiming to be Jesus
Very true Cro.
Whenever I agree with Cro, it feels strange...
like an out of body experience.
But it does happen from time to time.
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MikeHD: uhhh...
What?
What?
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Well, the cafe is closing.
I will see you guys tomorrow (hopefully).
Have a great evening guys!
I will see you guys tomorrow (hopefully).
Have a great evening guys!
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In response to: You mean the New World Translation?
"All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made." John 1:3
Yes, are you stating that your own interpretation is somehow superior even though it’s identical? How could Jesus be with God in the beginning as this verse says, if Jesus was created by God? And how could Jesus be "a god" and yet be with God during the creation?
I was waiting for you to actually tackle the contradictions and instead you are posting other passages that are allegedly the words of Jesus. What of the god/man contradiction? Did that get lost in the malay?
In response to: And they do not support using the name Yahweh but you do. But to each their own.
What does that have to do with me?
In response to: John 1:1
Hebrew 7:3
Revelation 22:13
John 5:17
John 10:30
1 John 5:7
Hebrew 7:3
Revelation 22:13
John 5:17
John 10:30
1 John 5:7
And this is proving what? You can’t just list a bunch of sections.
In response to: And Jesus did not promise rewards for abondoning their families.
19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
"He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life." John 12:25
You must hate your life in order to keep it. (If you love your life, you'll go to hell after you die.) You can keep that "world outlook."
In response to: Loving God so much that your love for others SEEMS like hate.
Talk about reaching. You have to look at what it actually states, not what you want it to say or mean. How is this addressing the contradictions by the way?
In response to: "It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires {to do.} An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife,
"An overseer must be the husband of one wife."
Apparently, it's OK for laymen to have several??
Mike are you going to address the contradictions any time soon?
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MikeHD: Very true Cro.
Whenever I agree with Cro, it feels strange...
like an out of body experience. But it does happen from time to time.
Whenever I agree with Cro, it feels strange...
like an out of body experience. But it does happen from time to time.
You agree that worse people than Charles Manson have claimed to be Jesus incarnate?
I thought you didn’t believe he was a Christian by the way? ------ This thread is Archived ------
Some one made her nest here.......in this thread
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H2O baby! H2O!!!