Should feminist activists fight for Muslim women rights, since it effects culture of the west ? (375)
Are there 'Sharia courts' in Britain?
While there are undoubtedly lots of different councils and tribunals dealing with Sharia principles, they aren't courts of law.
Most are Sharia 'councils' set up to make decisions on purely religious matters, although there are some bodies that mix Sharia principles with legally binding arbitration. But none can overrule the regular courts.
Sharia councils
Getting married for the purposes of your religion doesn't necessarily mean you are married in the eyes of the state.
Equally, the paperwork required for a civil divorce needn't be recognised by your religion.
For this reason, many Sharia councils exist to issue Islamic divorce certificates, and give advice on other aspects of religious law. They're often attached to mosques.
One piece of research from the University of Reading has identified 30 major councils, and some smaller ones, providing these services.
Family law and Sharia
Other services related to family issues might be offered by a Sharia council. Family mediation is one example.
Some campaigners worry about using mediation by religious bodies to work out agreements about children and finances after a marriage breaks down.
In 2014 Baroness Cox, a member of the House of Lords, tried to introduce a law to ensure that women aren't disadvantaged in mediation by religious bodies, and make clear that they aren't a court.
But, formally, this is already the case.
While feuding couples have to at least consider mediation before going to court, it doesn't override family law. A court has to sign off on any agreement made after divorce for it to be legally binding, and won't do so if the judge thinks it's unfair.
In 2013, the High Court was asked by an Orthodox Jewish couple to accept the ruling of a Jewish religious court on post-divorce family arrangements. The judge said that while the agreement would carry weight, it would be non-binding—neither party could get around English law by agreeing to abide by the decision of another tribunal.
Rather than open the door to "Sharia divorces", as some newspapers reported, the judgment confirmed that agreements made in a religious form are ultimately subject to English law.
While there are undoubtedly lots of different councils and tribunals dealing with Sharia principles, they aren't courts of law.
Most are Sharia 'councils' set up to make decisions on purely religious matters, although there are some bodies that mix Sharia principles with legally binding arbitration. But none can overrule the regular courts.
Sharia councils
Getting married for the purposes of your religion doesn't necessarily mean you are married in the eyes of the state.
Equally, the paperwork required for a civil divorce needn't be recognised by your religion.
For this reason, many Sharia councils exist to issue Islamic divorce certificates, and give advice on other aspects of religious law. They're often attached to mosques.
One piece of research from the University of Reading has identified 30 major councils, and some smaller ones, providing these services.
Family law and Sharia
Other services related to family issues might be offered by a Sharia council. Family mediation is one example.
Some campaigners worry about using mediation by religious bodies to work out agreements about children and finances after a marriage breaks down.
In 2014 Baroness Cox, a member of the House of Lords, tried to introduce a law to ensure that women aren't disadvantaged in mediation by religious bodies, and make clear that they aren't a court.
But, formally, this is already the case.
While feuding couples have to at least consider mediation before going to court, it doesn't override family law. A court has to sign off on any agreement made after divorce for it to be legally binding, and won't do so if the judge thinks it's unfair.
In 2013, the High Court was asked by an Orthodox Jewish couple to accept the ruling of a Jewish religious court on post-divorce family arrangements. The judge said that while the agreement would carry weight, it would be non-binding—neither party could get around English law by agreeing to abide by the decision of another tribunal.
Rather than open the door to "Sharia divorces", as some newspapers reported, the judgment confirmed that agreements made in a religious form are ultimately subject to English law.
123whisper: Yes,I agree what people do inside their home is personal buissnis- as long no one is making plans how to blow up in air white house or hurt who ever...
I think what you don't get it is that one's muslims becomes majority in population ...it will not be any more what you will let them to do...but if they will let you to remain in the same suburb or city when they become ruling majority ...Do you realise at all that the most capitol cities in Europe become overpopulated with muslims and natives are getting out of big city. Do you know why natives getting out of big capitol cities ? Because they do not feel safe !!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think what you don't get it is that one's muslims becomes majority in population ...it will not be any more what you will let them to do...but if they will let you to remain in the same suburb or city when they become ruling majority ...Do you realise at all that the most capitol cities in Europe become overpopulated with muslims and natives are getting out of big city. Do you know why natives getting out of big capitol cities ? Because they do not feel safe !!!!!!!!!!!!!
then the citizens need to elect officials that are going to create an atmosphere of safety.
the answer is not to run away for goodness sakes. fight for your rights and communities !!!
galrads: Seriously, it sounds like a lot of you don't know jack when it comes to Feminism, period (and I'm no authority on it either).
My fried recently wrote and published 'Women's Issues for a New Generation.' Chapter 20 in her book speaks with clarity on these issues ..... Women in Muslim Countries... It's worth the read imho.
My fried recently wrote and published 'Women's Issues for a New Generation.' Chapter 20 in her book speaks with clarity on these issues ..... Women in Muslim Countries... It's worth the read imho.
To Strinman;Eurasia ?
Will not recognise Europe as I left it...
Will not recognise Europe as I left it...Good night everybody ...I am overdue to sleep.
purr4mance: if it is indeed too late, the citizens of britain have only themselves to blame.
we have the rare honor killing even here. it's not an epidemic and i suspect it's not in britain either.
if control has been lost, and i mean if, then control has to be taken back first and foremost by electing the proper officials and authorities. if what you say is correct, the citizens need to fight for their communities not run.
we have the rare honor killing even here. it's not an epidemic and i suspect it's not in britain either.
if control has been lost, and i mean if, then control has to be taken back first and foremost by electing the proper officials and authorities. if what you say is correct, the citizens need to fight for their communities not run.
Indeed, that is what should happen.
And I believe Britain voted out of EU so it can regain its country back.
there is nothing more hurtful than seeing your motherland destroyed, cut in pieces, flooded by arrogant guests...
And that's why the youngster voted against, the word motherland has no meaning to them, they haven't built anything or lost a drop of sweat for this country.
123whisper: Good night everybody ...I am overdue to sleep.
Sweet dreams Whisper,
you and Tom are in real trouble not having enough sleep.
Take care darling
123whisper: You know... if I am relaying only on the Australian news, I wouldn't know nothing about it - just like you. So I understand where your sencire disbelief is coming from.
i consume news from many different news sources and countries.
after this last remark, i wouldn't be surprised if you are from the leave crowd posting propaganda because you are like the approximately other 52% of the leave crowd that is suffering from ethnocentrism as well as Islamophobia.
KremaP: Sweet dreams Whisper,
you and Tom are in real trouble not having enough sleep.
Take care darling
you and Tom are in real trouble not having enough sleep.
Take care darling
Yeh goodnight my lovely whiper
tomcatwarne: Yeh goodnight my lovely whiper
Will your hand be busy again tonight?
tomcatwarne: In 2008, UK's government formally recognized the first Sharia Law court, and the Archbishop of Canterbury - the head of Church of England - conceded that adopting elements of the Sharia law into UK's court system was "unavoidable."
Since then, over 100 Sharia law courts have been established across the UK. Although they technically lie within the UK's Tribunal Court system, these Sharia courts have been issuing rulings that contradict Britain's common law, as well as European Union laws.
In 2011, Britain's Muslims began demanding that Sharia replace British common law and become the only law in towns with large Muslim populations, including Birmingham, Bradford, Derby, Dewsbury, Leeds, Leicester, Liverpool, Luton, Manchester, Sheffield, Waltham Forest and Tower Hamlets, an East London Muslim enclave whose streets are already plastered with posters declaring, "You are entering a Sharia controlled zone: Islamic rules enforced" (below) and where Muslim imams now issue death threats to women who refuse to wear the Muslim veil.
Muslim controlled zoneOne-third of Britain's high security prison inmates are Muslims.
To woo more upscale Muslims, most of London's financial institutions have become Sharia-compliant, which requires donating a portion of their profits to Muslim organizations designated by their Sharia-compliance advisors. When he was Prime Minister, Gordon Brown loftily declared that he wanted London to become the Islamic finance capital of the world.
His successor, David Cameron more soberly opined in 2011 that “multiculturalism has been a failure” in Europe and has promoted Islamic extremism. He admitted that the West has been “cautious, frankly even fearful” of standing up to it, and concluded:
“We have even tolerated these segregated communities behaving in ways that run completely counter to our values. This hands-off tolerance has only served to reinforce the sense that not enough is shared... What we see - and what we see in so many European countries - is a process of radicalization.”
Two years later in 2013, however, David Cameron bowed to pressure from the banking sector and announced that Britain will become the first non-Muslim nation to issue Sharia-compliant Islamic bonds, proudly declaring at the World Economic Islamic Forum:"
Since then, over 100 Sharia law courts have been established across the UK. Although they technically lie within the UK's Tribunal Court system, these Sharia courts have been issuing rulings that contradict Britain's common law, as well as European Union laws.
In 2011, Britain's Muslims began demanding that Sharia replace British common law and become the only law in towns with large Muslim populations, including Birmingham, Bradford, Derby, Dewsbury, Leeds, Leicester, Liverpool, Luton, Manchester, Sheffield, Waltham Forest and Tower Hamlets, an East London Muslim enclave whose streets are already plastered with posters declaring, "You are entering a Sharia controlled zone: Islamic rules enforced" (below) and where Muslim imams now issue death threats to women who refuse to wear the Muslim veil.
Muslim controlled zoneOne-third of Britain's high security prison inmates are Muslims.
To woo more upscale Muslims, most of London's financial institutions have become Sharia-compliant, which requires donating a portion of their profits to Muslim organizations designated by their Sharia-compliance advisors. When he was Prime Minister, Gordon Brown loftily declared that he wanted London to become the Islamic finance capital of the world.
His successor, David Cameron more soberly opined in 2011 that “multiculturalism has been a failure” in Europe and has promoted Islamic extremism. He admitted that the West has been “cautious, frankly even fearful” of standing up to it, and concluded:
“We have even tolerated these segregated communities behaving in ways that run completely counter to our values. This hands-off tolerance has only served to reinforce the sense that not enough is shared... What we see - and what we see in so many European countries - is a process of radicalization.”
Two years later in 2013, however, David Cameron bowed to pressure from the banking sector and announced that Britain will become the first non-Muslim nation to issue Sharia-compliant Islamic bonds, proudly declaring at the World Economic Islamic Forum:"
There are no Sharia courts in the UK and any decisions made by the councils and there is a difference are NOT legally binding.
Therefore a Female Muslim legally resident plaintiff in the UK has no recourse for justice unless they take the matter up trhough a UK court
MikeD12: There are no Sharia courts in the UK and any decisions made by the councils and there is a difference are NOT legally binding.
Therefore a Female Muslim legally resident plaintiff in the UK has no recourse for justice unless they take the matter up trhough a UK court
Therefore a Female Muslim legally resident plaintiff in the UK has no recourse for justice unless they take the matter up trhough a UK court
And you believe that
purr4mance: that's a given, people with money will always have the best representation when it comes to defense.
i think i did read that somewhere regarding Sharia law in one of the 50 or so sharia courts in the uk. (i could be wrong, but don't think so) i have to REASONABLY assume that the courts in britain monitored the offenses case by case of the sharia laws that were broken and they most likely paralleled britain's laws so they didn't intercede.
show me where sharia law overruled britain's law?
religion based law or theology seems to live in britain and i think the country is trying to accommodate muslims because there are so many. there has to be a panel of authorities that keeps an eye on what these sharia courts are up to. once the line is crossed and the few sharia laws that do exist break britain's law i would think they would put an end to it. i certainly don't think britain is going to start allowing beheadings.
i think i did read that somewhere regarding Sharia law in one of the 50 or so sharia courts in the uk. (i could be wrong, but don't think so) i have to REASONABLY assume that the courts in britain monitored the offenses case by case of the sharia laws that were broken and they most likely paralleled britain's laws so they didn't intercede.
show me where sharia law overruled britain's law?
religion based law or theology seems to live in britain and i think the country is trying to accommodate muslims because there are so many. there has to be a panel of authorities that keeps an eye on what these sharia courts are up to. once the line is crossed and the few sharia laws that do exist break britain's law i would think they would put an end to it. i certainly don't think britain is going to start allowing beheadings.
sharia courts...
Nobody really knows how many. Most media reports quote this study by the 2009 study by the think tank Civitas, which found evidence of at least 85 “courts” operating across Britain.
The study only named 19 bodies, but added: “There are the dozens of informal tribunals run out of mosques or online.”
Arguably, it’s not fair to lump together websites that answer people’s questions on the minutiae of sharia law and hearings that people attend in person to obtain an Islamic divorce.
In fact, one of the sites mentioned by the researchers, Darul Iftaa, explicitly states: “Darul Iftaa is not an Islamic sharia law court; hence, the opinions provided by us are not intended to be a ruling as one would expect to receive from a sharia court.”
So that number of 85, though very widely reported, is difficult to verify.
There is a nationwide network of at least 10 bodies run by the Islamic Sharia Council, based in Leyton, east London. These deal overwhelmingly with matrimonial problems but have no real powers under English law.
They can dissolve religious marriages, which is clearly an important matter for observant Muslims, but only a court can end a civil marriage.
Another well-known organisation is the Muslim Arbitration Tribunal, which offers a dispute resolution service in a number of areas of civil law, and whose decisions can be legally binding.
purr4mance: that's a given, people with money will always have the best representation when it comes to defense.
i think i did read that somewhere regarding Sharia law in one of the 50 or so sharia courts in the uk. (i could be wrong, but don't think so) i have to REASONABLY assume that the courts in britain monitored the offenses case by case of the sharia laws that were broken and they most likely paralleled britain's laws so they didn't intercede.
show me where sharia law overruled britain's law?
religion based law or theology seems to live in britain and i think the country is trying to accommodate muslims because there are so many. there has to be a panel of authorities that keeps an eye on what these shariacourtscouncils are up to. once the line is crossed and the few sharia laws that do exist break britain's law i would think they would put an end to it. i certainly don't think britain is going to start allowing beheadings.
i think i did read that somewhere regarding Sharia law in one of the 50 or so sharia courts in the uk. (i could be wrong, but don't think so) i have to REASONABLY assume that the courts in britain monitored the offenses case by case of the sharia laws that were broken and they most likely paralleled britain's laws so they didn't intercede.
show me where sharia law overruled britain's law?
religion based law or theology seems to live in britain and i think the country is trying to accommodate muslims because there are so many. there has to be a panel of authorities that keeps an eye on what these sharia
As there is no overarching regulation of Islamic councils and tribunals, we have no way of knowing how widespread complaints are.
Ania Khan, head of the Islamic department at Duncan Lewis Solicitors, told us: “I am used to having continuous complaints about the English legal system. Once you have a judgement, someone is going to be angry.
“I don’t have that many complaints about sharia council decisions compared to the large amount of decisions they are making.”
Ms Khan said sharia councils could serve a useful purpose if they settle disputes efficiently, but said there are effectively “no checks and balances” on how they operate at the moment.
123whisper I really do not think it is a yes or no answer. women's rights in the west are available to any woman who wishes to support them for herself and others.
So the answer to your question is, maybe, it doesn't matter. All she has to be is a woman, religion is of no consequence. If a woman does not want to exercize all rights available to her that is up to her.
So the answer to your question is, maybe, it doesn't matter. All she has to be is a woman, religion is of no consequence. If a woman does not want to exercize all rights available to her that is up to her.
I am not sure about England but I know here marriages must be legitimized and dissolves through the legal system, and people who do not do so can end up with a multitude of problems because of community property laws and tax codes.
There are some unclear exceptions under common law marriage and divorce (abandonment). I am not really sure about that tho.
So for example, a man who considers himself divorced may find his "ex" still legally entitled to a portion of his property during his lifetime and after his death if they do not have a legally recognized divorce here.
I really do not know the details and I doubt it is black and white, but it is something to keep in mind if a marriage is not completed under civil law.
There are some unclear exceptions under common law marriage and divorce (abandonment). I am not really sure about that tho.
So for example, a man who considers himself divorced may find his "ex" still legally entitled to a portion of his property during his lifetime and after his death if they do not have a legally recognized divorce here.
I really do not know the details and I doubt it is black and white, but it is something to keep in mind if a marriage is not completed under civil law.felixis99: 123whisper I really do not think it is a yes or no answer. women's rights in the west are available to any woman who wishes to support them for herself and others.
So the answer to your question is, maybe, it doesn't matter. All she has to be is a woman, religion is of no consequence. If a woman does not want to exercize all rights available to her that is up to her.
So the answer to your question is, maybe, it doesn't matter. All she has to be is a woman, religion is of no consequence. If a woman does not want to exercize all rights available to her that is up to her.
Many Muslim women enjoy the traditional role of mother & wife. That doesn't make them second class citizens, it creates a good family environment , not to mention, stability for all family members... They are a good example of a woman taking responsibility & the hard unselfish work that is needed to raise a family..
allthegoodnamest: Many Muslim women enjoy the traditional role of mother & wife. That doesn't make them second class citizens, it creates a good family environment , not to mention, stability for all family members... They are a good example of a woman taking responsibility & the hard unselfish work that is needed to raise a family..
Do you have Muslim wife of g/f I have been watching your posts and you seem to have a personal in.terest
tomcatwarne: Do you have Muslim wife of g/f I have been watching your posts and you seem to have a personal in.terest
No... I just think that their traditional way & family values are a good example of how women used to raise families in the western world many years ago.. Your self needs are secondary & raising children & giving them a stable upbringing is the sole aim as parents.
Under Islamic marital jurisprudence, Muslim men are allowed to practice polygyny, that is, they can have more than one wife at the same time, up to a total of four. Polyandry, the practice of a woman having more than one husband, by contrast, is not permitted.
Not very fare
Not very fare
allthegoodnamest: No... I just think that their traditional way & family values are a good example of how women used to raise families in the western world many years ago.. Your self needs are secondary & raising children & giving them a stable upbringing is the sole aim as parents.
You sat you are Cypriot, are you Turkish Cypriot and Moslem??
Lookin4missright: Under Islamic marital jurisprudence, Muslim men are allowed to practice polygyny, that is, they can have more than one wife at the same time, up to a total of four. Polyandry, the practice of a woman having more than one husband, by contrast, is not permitted.
Not very fare
Not very fare
The reason being, if there is one husband & many wives, you will know who the father of the child is... If the tables were turned, then it's anyone's guess who the child's father is.
tomcatwarne: You sat you are Cypriot, are you Turkish Cypriot and Moslem??
No, I'm Greek Cypriot & Christian...
allthegoodnamest: No, I'm Greek Cypriot & Christian...
just asking
allthegoodnamest: The reason being, if there is one husband & many wives, you will know who the father of the child is... If the tables were turned, then it's anyone's guess who the child's father is.
Roger that
4 wives .. does he souley have to work and take care of them and how ever many kids the 4 wives pop out until all are old enough to fend for themselves?
tomcatwarne: just asking
Just because I believe in good family values, doesn't make me Muslim ..
I'm sure there are many Christians in my position. This is why I respect the Irish, as they share similar values.
allthegoodnamest: Just because I believe in good family values, doesn't make me Muslim ..
I'm sure there are many Christians in my position. This is why I respect the Irish, as they share similar values.
I'm sure there are many Christians in my position. This is why I respect the Irish, as they share similar values.
No prblem in having family halues.
Lookin4missright: Roger that
4 wives .. does he souley have to work and take care of them and how ever many kids the 4 wives pop out until all are old enough to fend for themselves?
4 wives .. does he souley have to work and take care of them and how ever many kids the 4 wives pop out until all are old enough to fend for themselves?
I was in conversation with a chauffeur of a Saudi prince last year & when the prince asked his father for funds to visit England , the sheik then asked him who he was & his mothers name.
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Since then, over 100 Sharia law courts have been established across the UK. Although they technically lie within the UK's Tribunal Court system, these Sharia courts have been issuing rulings that contradict Britain's common law, as well as European Union laws.
In 2011, Britain's Muslims began demanding that Sharia replace British common law and become the only law in towns with large Muslim populations, including Birmingham, Bradford, Derby, Dewsbury, Leeds, Leicester, Liverpool, Luton, Manchester, Sheffield, Waltham Forest and Tower Hamlets, an East London Muslim enclave whose streets are already plastered with posters declaring, "You are entering a Sharia controlled zone: Islamic rules enforced" (below) and where Muslim imams now issue death threats to women who refuse to wear the Muslim veil.
Muslim controlled zoneOne-third of Britain's high security prison inmates are Muslims.
To woo more upscale Muslims, most of London's financial institutions have become Sharia-compliant, which requires donating a portion of their profits to Muslim organizations designated by their Sharia-compliance advisors. When he was Prime Minister, Gordon Brown loftily declared that he wanted London to become the Islamic finance capital of the world.
His successor, David Cameron more soberly opined in 2011 that “multiculturalism has been a failure” in Europe and has promoted Islamic extremism. He admitted that the West has been “cautious, frankly even fearful” of standing up to it, and concluded:
“We have even tolerated these segregated communities behaving in ways that run completely counter to our values. This hands-off tolerance has only served to reinforce the sense that not enough is shared... What we see - and what we see in so many European countries - is a process of radicalization.”
Two years later in 2013, however, David Cameron bowed to pressure from the banking sector and announced that Britain will become the first non-Muslim nation to issue Sharia-compliant Islamic bonds, proudly declaring at the World Economic Islamic Forum:
"
L U