Obama Rocks! Today! the most serious attempt against more wars! (829)
Hot_Single_Dude: Bruno is a Barbie girl in a non Barbie world
He is a dumbo, like Bobby Stumbo
You can search his mind, just for being kind
You find Imagination, that life is Bushney,s creation
Come on, Bruno, let's go party
STOOOOOOOOOOOPID!He is a dumbo, like Bobby Stumbo
You can search his mind, just for being kind
You find Imagination, that life is Bushney,s creation
Come on, Bruno, let's go party
3rd Grade Schoolyard STOOOOOOPID!
Conrad73: STOOOOOOOOOOOPID!
3rd Grade Schoolyard STOOOOOOPID!
3rd Grade Schoolyard STOOOOOOPID!
at least there were no vomiting emotes!
Fallingman: at least there were no vomiting emotes!Got to preserve my Electrolytes!
Iraquies are asked several times TT and almost 85 procent of the iraqui population and even many members of their government and officials (when they are allowed being honset) demanding end of occupation here and now and with no delay what so ever!The recent news clips was surely recorded in some tiney areas where life have began one more time and surely in the so callew Green zone and it does not show the reality in the whole country TT!
Dont be sure they did not have money for lunch TT......
Dude you have blinders on. Even Barack Obama said that the Iraqi economy under Saddam was in shambles. His UN food or oil program that was diverted to a weapon procuement program is only one example. Millions of UN dollars were headed to acquire weapons from.....drum roll please...Euroepean weapons dealers and countries.
So saying the that the Iraqi had a glowing and healthy eocnomy under Saddam is like saying.....that old mare in the back stall can win the Kentucy Derby. She may run, but she ain't going to win.
But now with communciation within Iraq well restored.....why don't we see Iraqi complaints in the media, the net, in person of American presence? So far the worse thing I have seen is a guy throwing a shoe at GWB. Hey who knows what his reason is.
But if as you say....all this disruption came about because of the US/UK & other coalition government presence in Iraq. Where are the Iraqi to confirm it? Dude you don't put a sock in the mouths of 16 million people.
With the war now over 6 years old....the wait and see them arguement does not apply very well either. The Iraqi have had time to make thier case to the international public. None of them are supporting your 1m deah figure. None of them are contesting them the 87.215 figure given by the Iraqi gov't.
Dont be sure they did not have money for lunch TT......
Dude you have blinders on. Even Barack Obama said that the Iraqi economy under Saddam was in shambles. His UN food or oil program that was diverted to a weapon procuement program is only one example. Millions of UN dollars were headed to acquire weapons from.....drum roll please...Euroepean weapons dealers and countries.
So saying the that the Iraqi had a glowing and healthy eocnomy under Saddam is like saying.....that old mare in the back stall can win the Kentucy Derby. She may run, but she ain't going to win.
But now with communciation within Iraq well restored.....why don't we see Iraqi complaints in the media, the net, in person of American presence? So far the worse thing I have seen is a guy throwing a shoe at GWB. Hey who knows what his reason is.
But if as you say....all this disruption came about because of the US/UK & other coalition government presence in Iraq. Where are the Iraqi to confirm it? Dude you don't put a sock in the mouths of 16 million people.
With the war now over 6 years old....the wait and see them arguement does not apply very well either. The Iraqi have had time to make thier case to the international public. None of them are supporting your 1m deah figure. None of them are contesting them the 87.215 figure given by the Iraqi gov't.
Conrad73: Saturday, December 16, 2006; ?
IRAQ: Islamic extremists target women in Basra
Women not 'properly' dressed are targeted by extremists in Basra
BAGHDAD, 2 January 2008 (IRIN) - One hundred and thirty-three women were killed last year in Basra, Iraq’s second largest city, either by religious vigilantes or as a result of so-called “honour” killings, a report said on 31 December.
The report, released by Basra Security Committee at a conference on women’s rights in the city, said 79 of the victims were deemed by extremists to be “violating Islamic teachings”, 47 others died in “honour” killings and the remaining seven were targeted for their political affiliations.
“The women of Basra are being horrifically murdered and then dumped in the garbage with notes saying they were killed for violating Islamic teachings," Bassem al-Moussawi, head of the committee and a member of Basra’s Provincial Council, told the conference.
“Sectarian groups are trying to force a strict interpretation of Islam… They send their vigilantes to roam the city, hunting down those who are deemed to be behaving against their [the extremists’] own interpretations,” al-Moussawi said.
The Basra office of Iraq’s radical Shia religious leader Muqtada al-Sadr said his movement opposed the killings and blamed “gangs with foreign support [which are out] to defame the religious movements”.
“It is a sin,” said Harith al-Ethari, a spokesman for al-Sadr’s office in Basra, not to wear a headscarf. “But killing women is a bigger sin,” al-Ethari said.
“There is a concrete religious principle that says that wearing makeup and foregoing a headscarf in public is a sin, but it must not be dealt with like this,” he said.
Some women are determined to continue their jobs despite the threats they face
Graffiti
Before the US-led invasion in 2003, Basra was known for its mixed population and active night life. Now, in some areas, graffiti messages threaten any woman who wears makeup and appears in public with her hair uncovered: “Your makeup and your decision to forego the headscarf will bring you death,” reads graffiti in the city centre.
Throughout Iraq, many women wear headscarves, while others wear a full face veil, although secular women are often unveiled. In recent years, armed Islamic extremists in some parts of the country have sometimes forced women to cover their heads or face punishment.
Christian women also targeted
Christian women have even been forced to wear headscarves in many areas, including Baghdad.
On 11 December the bodies of a Christian woman and her brother were found in a Basra rubbish dump, police and church officials said on condition of anonymity.
A 20-year-old English student at Basra College of Arts has not been seen since she left her college last year following harassment by male students for using makeup and not wearing a headscarf.
“I'm from a secular family, but respect for Islam’s instructions and wearing make-up and foregoing the `hijab’ (headscarf) doesn’t mean that I’m a bad woman,” she told IRIN in a phone interview from Baghdad on condition of anonymity.
She said she was stopped once by two fellow students and ordered to cover her hair and stop wearing makeup “otherwise it's better for me not to attend class”.
Doesnt seem to be gettin any better Con.
I will find the one I read last week.
Some Democracy.........
vinny1967: These women are afraid and in Terror...........that we can agree on.
Vinny..it is so refreshing after the nearly 20 months of Dude threads someone from Europe remembered the concept of state sponsored terrorism. If Saddam Hussien was not practicing state sponsored terrorism.....I beg someone to explain it for me.
Here is your problem in your post. It is a small matter of wording. As I see it.
When you write "No country should instill their belief system on
another." What belief system did the US install in Iraq? Don't they still practice Muslem faiths? Did the US go there to alter that? Did the US force them to become Christians? No. Indeed though the issue of Muslem faith(s) Shia and Sunni is a critical aspect to Iraq. But no one from the US is closing their Mosque and forbidding them to continue the faiths of either.
Vinny, you mix faith and goverance. I have seen it from Dude in the past as well. This is not the separation of church and state arguement of our Constitution. But something often a mix that comes from Europe. Faith is a individual choice. Goverance is a decision of many to have a form or kind of government. Two very distinct things. But that is how most here in the preceive them.
The problem is that many Europeans still keep the vestiges of faith and government combined. God Bless the Queen....etc.. Were as in a democracy....the aspect of religious tolerance is almost a necessity. What was done in Iraq did not force any belief system.
The United States belief system is as wide the most conservative Christian to the most ardent athesis to 100s other religions that are practiced. I have live here the better part of 60 years, and it is a hard belief system to define.
I did not use the term collatrol damage in my post earlier. Just that downtown Baghdad had come alive recently. But surely if one
had a lot of collatrol damage going on....downtown Baghdad would be closed on nights. It is not.
That these women are afraid, that we both can agree on. And do.
We just differ on the cause of the fear. Vinny did you know that when a US Helo lands at a small Iraqi village.....the kids coming running to it? If the US was causing the fear in Iraq, would the parents let their kids run to a American Helo? McGovern uses it as a example in his book...says he has seen it many many time as his helo landed there.
Did the US force democracy on the Iraqi? That also we can agree on. But it is a overstep to say this is a oppression of the Iraqi beliefs. And many do. We use democracy, or tried to use democracy as a means to stablize Iraq and the middle east.
We did not have anything else to give them, Vinny. The US though the most powerful and wealthy country on earth, giving Saddam more money as aid was a waste. Leave him in power was even worse for the Iraqi people. Giving them democracy at least gave those kids that today run to American Helo, a chance to live free.
GWB did handsprings to keep this from being a Christian vs Muslem conflict after 9/11. That is exactly what bin laden wanted. That many have said Iraq has made more terrorists. According to Greg Mortenson, a US NGO leader in Pakistan from 1991 to present, some 80,000 Madrasas students attended AlQeada Afghan training camps prior to the Iraq war. Their attendance had nothing to do with Iraq.
Lastly, Vinny I totally agree that countries should not impose
a belief system (e.g. a faith based system) on a foreign people. Were it has been attempted in the past, it is near always a failure. I have said this in the past several time. The reason that Iraq is becoming safe, is the Iraqi people made a choice to tip on foreign fighters. Iraqi are making the choice here, Vinny. With the vote and with the tip.jmo
Ok TT.............Belief system was the wrong phrase.
Their system of democracy is what I should have said.
You have used Collateral Damage in various threads that I have read TT as if its acceptable.
Its Not
I was not referrin to last Friday night but the untold and unquantifiable damge that has been done since the invasion started.
Its not.
As regards children running out to Helos........
I used to do that when the British Army came down our road when I was a child but that doesnt mean I should not have been afraid of them. Big flashy helicopter and kids runnin out to see it. I would have though that was normal.
The point is not all people of Iraq wanted the US there, and not all of them are happy now that you are there and leaving , as per my post.
How many, I dont know.............I guess only time will tell.
Their system of democracy is what I should have said.
You have used Collateral Damage in various threads that I have read TT as if its acceptable.
Its Not
I was not referrin to last Friday night but the untold and unquantifiable damge that has been done since the invasion started.
Its not.
As regards children running out to Helos........
I used to do that when the British Army came down our road when I was a child but that doesnt mean I should not have been afraid of them. Big flashy helicopter and kids runnin out to see it. I would have though that was normal.
The point is not all people of Iraq wanted the US there, and not all of them are happy now that you are there and leaving , as per my post.
How many, I dont know.............I guess only time will tell.
Conrad73: Nope,just recently!
ttom500: Vinny..it is so refreshing after the nearly 20 months of Dude threads someone from Europe remembered the concept of state sponsored terrorism. If Saddam Hussien was not practicing state sponsored terrorism.....I beg someone to explain it for me.
Just an afterthought TT.
Is the US led coalition not guilty of terrorism as well ?
There were a lot of Iraqie's seriously terrorised.
vinny1967: Just an afterthought TT.
Is the US led coalition not guilty of terrorism as well ?
There were a lot of Iraqie's seriously terrorised.
Is the US led coalition not guilty of terrorism as well ?
There were a lot of Iraqie's seriously terrorised.
I live in terror having Obama/Biden running the country. Time to get the UN involved. Maybe they can do something?
vinny1967: Just an afterthought TT.
Is the US led coalition not guilty of terrorism as well ?
There were a lot of Iraqie's seriously terrorised.
Aren't you grasping at Straws now?Is the US led coalition not guilty of terrorism as well ?
There were a lot of Iraqie's seriously terrorised.
Indyfella: I live in terror having Obama/Biden running the country. Time to get the UN involved. Maybe they can do something?
TO ARMS
As stress would say........
Oh but your in a minority............
vinny1967: TO ARMS
As stress would say........
Oh but your in a minority............
As stress would say........
Oh but your in a minority............
But the new hispanic nominee to the supreme court (by Obama) loves minorities...so I feel protected.
Conrad73: Aren't you grasping at Straws now?
Oh yeah I forgot Con...........they were being Liberated....
My mistake.
I will go off and remind all those women that they are now liberated..........
Might get them to sign up to CS........
Indyfella: But the new hispanic nominee to the supreme court (by Obama) loves minorities...so I feel protected.
I read about her.......
Maybe its representative of the population......
Anyway the Bible Touting Ole boys club still have the majority, whereas Im not sure the representation of population is correct.
Would 1/9th of the population be Hispanic.......
vinny1967: I read about her.......
Maybe its representative of the population......
Anyway the Bible Touting Ole boys club still have the majority, whereas Im not sure the representation of population is correct.
Would 1/9th of the population be Hispanic.......
Maybe its representative of the population......
Anyway the Bible Touting Ole boys club still have the majority, whereas Im not sure the representation of population is correct.
Would 1/9th of the population be Hispanic.......
Given that line of thinking, which there are numerous flaws, a lot of white (male and female) employees should probably be fired from their existing jobs in order to let a minority group have those jobs. Makes sense to me....Hope Obama pushes the idea.
Indyfella: Just what we need...more part time low paying jobs. Good job Barry...
PS: maybe those employees could go around painting roofs white?
---- IMAGE REMOVED because photobucket.com no longer allows embedded images ----The new O'Grymsler!PS: maybe those employees could go around painting roofs white?
Conrad73: Hey Dumbo,can you read?
There is currently no text in this page,
ok som stooooopied Bushney,s endorsers as you have prpobabely removed it alrady Assh****!!!!!!!!!!! ok look at this one instead There is currently no text in this page,
Indyfella: Given that line of thinking, which there are numerous flaws, a lot of white (male and female) employees should probably be fired from their existing jobs in order to let a minority group have those jobs. Makes sense to me....Hope Obama pushes the idea.
Your really confusing me here Indy...........not hard I know......
I would have thought that the Government would want the Supreme Court to be representative, when all qualifications are equal.
Now your going to tell me that in your opinion there are better qualified people to be appointed to that position ?
And if you are, you could be right.
But is it not a Government of the People, For the People.
Or is it just a good ole boys club......
ttom500: Iraquies are asked several times TT and almost 85 procent of the iraqui population and even many members of their government and officials (when they are allowed being honset) demanding end of occupation here and now and with no delay what so ever!The recent news clips was surely recorded in some tiney areas where life have began one more time and surely in the so callew Green zone and it does not show the reality in the whole country TT!
Dont be sure they did not have money for lunch TT......Dude you have blinders on. Even Barack Obama said that the Iraqi economy under Saddam was in shambles. His UN food or oil program that was diverted to a weapon procuement program is only one example. Millions of UN dollars were headed to acquire weapons from.....drum roll please...Euroepean weapons dealers and countries.
So saying the that the Iraqi had a glowing and healthy eocnomy under Saddam is like saying.....that old mare in the back stall can win the Kentucy Derby. She may run, but she ain't going to win.
But now with communciation within Iraq well restored.....why don't we see Iraqi complaints in the media, the net, in person of American presence? So far the worse thing I have seen is a guy throwing a shoe at GWB. Hey who knows what his reason is.
But if as you say....all this disruption came about because of the US/UK & other coalition government presence in Iraq. Where are the Iraqi to confirm it? Dude you don't put a sock in the mouths of 16 million people.
With the war now over 6 years old....the wait and see them arguement does not apply very well either. The Iraqi have had time to make thier case to the international public. None of them are supporting your 1m deah figure. None of them are contesting them the 87.215 figure given by the Iraqi gov't.
dont spin TT!Dont be sure they did not have money for lunch TT......Dude you have blinders on. Even Barack Obama said that the Iraqi economy under Saddam was in shambles. His UN food or oil program that was diverted to a weapon procuement program is only one example. Millions of UN dollars were headed to acquire weapons from.....drum roll please...Euroepean weapons dealers and countries.
So saying the that the Iraqi had a glowing and healthy eocnomy under Saddam is like saying.....that old mare in the back stall can win the Kentucy Derby. She may run, but she ain't going to win.
But now with communciation within Iraq well restored.....why don't we see Iraqi complaints in the media, the net, in person of American presence? So far the worse thing I have seen is a guy throwing a shoe at GWB. Hey who knows what his reason is.
But if as you say....all this disruption came about because of the US/UK & other coalition government presence in Iraq. Where are the Iraqi to confirm it? Dude you don't put a sock in the mouths of 16 million people.
With the war now over 6 years old....the wait and see them arguement does not apply very well either. The Iraqi have had time to make thier case to the international public. None of them are supporting your 1m deah figure. None of them are contesting them the 87.215 figure given by the Iraqi gov't.
what even you talk a bout is you and prfectly a true sign that you still have no idea or caring much a bout what your beloved former criminal government of urs did to Iraq!
no matter what......... their lives were much much better than today generally and of course it will not stay this way and some day things are going to get better and specially now when the criminal regim of the Bushney,s is history and that country will have more space to develope it self!
When even the lord of darkness him self W told it was a mistake and a stupied act then what are you talking a bout TT?
Hot_Single_Dude: ok som stooooopied Bushney,s endorsers as you have prpobabely removed it alrady Assh****!!!!!!!!!!! ok look at this one instead
You Danes are subversive as Hell,nothing there either!vinny1967: IRAQ: Islamic extremists target women in Basra
Women not 'properly' dressed are targeted by extremists in Basra
BAGHDAD, 2 January 2008 (IRIN) - One hundred and thirty-three women were killed last year in Basra, Iraq’s second largest city, either by religious vigilantes or as a result of so-called “honour” killings, a report said on 31 December.
The report, released by Basra Security Committee at a conference on women’s rights in the city, said 79 of the victims were deemed by extremists to be “violating Islamic teachings”, 47 others died in “honour” killings and the remaining seven were targeted for their political affiliations.
“The women of Basra are being horrifically murdered and then dumped in the garbage with notes saying they were killed for violating Islamic teachings," Bassem al-Moussawi, head of the committee and a member of Basra’s Provincial Council, told the conference.
“Sectarian groups are trying to force a strict interpretation of Islam… They send their vigilantes to roam the city, hunting down those who are deemed to be behaving against their [the extremists’] own interpretations,” al-Moussawi said.
The Basra office of Iraq’s radical Shia religious leader Muqtada al-Sadr said his movement opposed the killings and blamed “gangs with foreign support [which are out] to defame the religious movements”.
“It is a sin,” said Harith al-Ethari, a spokesman for al-Sadr’s office in Basra, not to wear a headscarf. “But killing women is a bigger sin,” al-Ethari said.
“There is a concrete religious principle that says that wearing makeup and foregoing a headscarf in public is a sin, but it must not be dealt with like this,” he said.
Some women are determined to continue their jobs despite the threats they face
Graffiti
Before the US-led invasion in 2003, Basra was known for its mixed population and active night life. Now, in some areas, graffiti messages threaten any woman who wears makeup and appears in public with her hair uncovered: “Your makeup and your decision to forego the headscarf will bring you death,” reads graffiti in the city centre.
Throughout Iraq, many women wear headscarves, while others wear a full face veil, although secular women are often unveiled. In recent years, armed Islamic extremists in some parts of the country have sometimes forced women to cover their heads or face punishment.
Christian women also targeted
Christian women have even been forced to wear headscarves in many areas, including Baghdad.
On 11 December the bodies of a Christian woman and her brother were found in a Basra rubbish dump, police and church officials said on condition of anonymity.
A 20-year-old English student at Basra College of Arts has not been seen since she left her college last year following harassment by male students for using makeup and not wearing a headscarf.
“I'm from a secular family, but respect for Islam’s instructions and wearing make-up and foregoing the `hijab’ (headscarf) doesn’t mean that I’m a bad woman,” she told IRIN in a phone interview from Baghdad on condition of anonymity.
She said she was stopped once by two fellow students and ordered to cover her hair and stop wearing makeup “otherwise it's better for me not to attend class”.
Doesnt seem to be gettin any better Con.
I will find the one I read last week.
Some Democracy.........
Women not 'properly' dressed are targeted by extremists in Basra
BAGHDAD, 2 January 2008 (IRIN) - One hundred and thirty-three women were killed last year in Basra, Iraq’s second largest city, either by religious vigilantes or as a result of so-called “honour” killings, a report said on 31 December.
The report, released by Basra Security Committee at a conference on women’s rights in the city, said 79 of the victims were deemed by extremists to be “violating Islamic teachings”, 47 others died in “honour” killings and the remaining seven were targeted for their political affiliations.
“The women of Basra are being horrifically murdered and then dumped in the garbage with notes saying they were killed for violating Islamic teachings," Bassem al-Moussawi, head of the committee and a member of Basra’s Provincial Council, told the conference.
“Sectarian groups are trying to force a strict interpretation of Islam… They send their vigilantes to roam the city, hunting down those who are deemed to be behaving against their [the extremists’] own interpretations,” al-Moussawi said.
The Basra office of Iraq’s radical Shia religious leader Muqtada al-Sadr said his movement opposed the killings and blamed “gangs with foreign support [which are out] to defame the religious movements”.
“It is a sin,” said Harith al-Ethari, a spokesman for al-Sadr’s office in Basra, not to wear a headscarf. “But killing women is a bigger sin,” al-Ethari said.
“There is a concrete religious principle that says that wearing makeup and foregoing a headscarf in public is a sin, but it must not be dealt with like this,” he said.
Some women are determined to continue their jobs despite the threats they face
Graffiti
Before the US-led invasion in 2003, Basra was known for its mixed population and active night life. Now, in some areas, graffiti messages threaten any woman who wears makeup and appears in public with her hair uncovered: “Your makeup and your decision to forego the headscarf will bring you death,” reads graffiti in the city centre.
Throughout Iraq, many women wear headscarves, while others wear a full face veil, although secular women are often unveiled. In recent years, armed Islamic extremists in some parts of the country have sometimes forced women to cover their heads or face punishment.
Christian women also targeted
Christian women have even been forced to wear headscarves in many areas, including Baghdad.
On 11 December the bodies of a Christian woman and her brother were found in a Basra rubbish dump, police and church officials said on condition of anonymity.
A 20-year-old English student at Basra College of Arts has not been seen since she left her college last year following harassment by male students for using makeup and not wearing a headscarf.
“I'm from a secular family, but respect for Islam’s instructions and wearing make-up and foregoing the `hijab’ (headscarf) doesn’t mean that I’m a bad woman,” she told IRIN in a phone interview from Baghdad on condition of anonymity.
She said she was stopped once by two fellow students and ordered to cover her hair and stop wearing makeup “otherwise it's better for me not to attend class”.
Doesnt seem to be gettin any better Con.
I will find the one I read last week.
Some Democracy.........
Keep punching these Bushney heads right in their balls Vinny
Indyfella: Given that line of thinking, which there are numerous flaws, a lot of white (male and female) employees should probably be fired from their existing jobs in order to let a minority group have those jobs. Makes sense to me....Hope Obama pushes the idea.
I hear Roto-Rooter is looking for certifible diver's.
Indyfella: Take it up with Obama...he wanted the job.
Indy this is actually becomin a bit of a joke to me.
Alls I see in these threads is one liners and cartoons and general making fun of peoples opinions when sometomes reasoned debate helps.
I posted that in reply to TT who was posting that he thought there was harmony in Iraq (sorry TT if im misquoting you but it was about a night scene in Iraq where people looked happy)
I was merely pointing out that not all Iraqies are happy with the Invasion.
And while I think Bush f***ed up in a major way in invading, and I think O'Bama is wrong for not upping sticks now, I do applaud him for setting the dates for the withdrawal.
Indyfella: <disappointed w/the Messiah
Et Tu Indy?vinny1967: Your really confusing me here Indy...........not hard I know......
I would have thought that the Government would want the Supreme Court to be representative, when all qualifications are equal.
Now your going to tell me that in your opinion there are better qualified people to be appointed to that position ?
And if you are, you could be right.
But is it not a Government of the People, For the People.
Or is it just a good ole boys club......
I would have thought that the Government would want the Supreme Court to be representative, when all qualifications are equal.
Now your going to tell me that in your opinion there are better qualified people to be appointed to that position ?
And if you are, you could be right.
But is it not a Government of the People, For the People.
Or is it just a good ole boys club......
Thoughtful question? Probably a lot of answers according to who you listen to...and I'm sure you'll get more responses.
I don't care who is nominated and placed on the supreme court if they view justice as blind. The nominee has made some comments that if they came from a white male, he would NEVER be considered for the position.
The job of a supreme court justice is to interprete the law, not to make it. (she's commented that she makes law) Being a constructionist, I think the Constitition should be interpreted as it was written...not what people wish to read into it.
I doubt I answered your question, but that's my thought...
Thanks...
vinny1967: Indy this is actually becomin a bit of a joke to me.
Alls I see in these threads is one liners and cartoons and general making fun of peoples opinions when sometomes reasoned debate helps.
I posted that in reply to TT who was posting that he thought there was harmony in Iraq (sorry TT if im misquoting you but it was about a night scene in Iraq where people looked happy)
I was merely pointing out that not all Iraqies are happy with the Invasion.
And while I think Bush f***ed up in a major way in invading, and I think O'Bama is wrong for not upping sticks now, I do applaud him for setting the dates for the withdrawal.
Alls I see in these threads is one liners and cartoons and general making fun of peoples opinions when sometomes reasoned debate helps.
I posted that in reply to TT who was posting that he thought there was harmony in Iraq (sorry TT if im misquoting you but it was about a night scene in Iraq where people looked happy)
I was merely pointing out that not all Iraqies are happy with the Invasion.
And while I think Bush f***ed up in a major way in invading, and I think O'Bama is wrong for not upping sticks now, I do applaud him for setting the dates for the withdrawal.
I have to disagree with you, at least in part my friend. Bush did absolutely the right thing in going in and removing Hussein and his cronies. But having done that, he should have relocated the bulk of the troops to Afghanistan to get a even bigger tyrant. The UN should have taken on a bigger roll in the restablizing of Iraq. The rebel's and terrorist need to know that the WHOLE world is against their tactics, not just the U.S.
vinny1967: Just an afterthought TT.
Is the US led coalition not guilty of terrorism as well ?
There were a lot of Iraqie's seriously terrorised.
Is the US led coalition not guilty of terrorism as well ?
There were a lot of Iraqie's seriously terrorised.
I have thought about this question a lot. I think in cases like
abu Grail prison scandle, the deaths of the 20 by a marine platoon, etc. I can not disagree that terror and fear were not caused. Both did happen.
I am not saying we are prefect or have fought a conflict in Iraq that we did not cause fear in the Iraqi civilians. I am saying that these are infrequent and not wide spread in occurrance. That they were unplanned by our military command.
Vinny, but when compared to AlQeada of Iraq ...in a two month period in Baghdad, we compromised 5 torture houses of AlQeada.
With literally 100s of drive bys and kidnappings. Thankfully, we are not even close to being as brutal. There the leadership planned a campaign of fear and terrorism.
I am not justifying our wrongs with the wrongs of the enemy. I felt that the command levels of Abu Grail prison, should have been in front of a court martial as well....reason and charges....negilence of duty as a officer to oversee their unit's activities. The investigators saw it another way.
I think that for a time there was a cover up on the Marine platoon incident. On each of those and others, military justice did grind into play. People did hard time at Leavenworth.
Officers lost rank, commands and retirement benefits.
McGovern's book is a good one. He was a JAG officer there. He tried both foreign fighters and US personnel involved in these incidents. If I get more, I will pass it on here.
I now have read Gen Sanchez book, he was in command during the prison scandle. And Tommy Frank's book. A number of short pieces by other command level officers.
Surely none would write in a bib if he ordered.....a act of terrorism. But you can get a general feeling if he could make such a order by the book's tone and wording.
I am not reading hate in their words, Vinny. Though McGovern goes after bin Laden after 9/11 like he was middle linebacker seeking QB to sack.:-) The fact is, he was a NFL linebacker. So was I, though not NFL level. I know the desire to punish an opponent. To drive him into the ground, to hurt him. I am not seeing that in their words.
And yes, Vinny from our experience in Nam....when the parent's don't let their kids run to the Helo....they are either scared or hostile.
Indyfella: But the new hispanic nominee to the supreme court (by Obama) loves minorities...so I feel protected.
I am sorry to inform you Indyfella this brave lady Really truely HATES any ting and every thing about the Bushney,s and she wil be very very FAIR any way when trials against Bush men will begin soon....... Fair but she will passionatly working toward getting them all
American parents are getting ready Indyfella........Tell your "friends" fleeing to Colombia before it is too late for them
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He is a dumbo, like Bobby Stumbo
You can search his mind, just for being kind
You find Imagination, that life is Bushney,s creation
Come on, Bruno, let's go party
You want imagination from a REP, Dude......
I will give you a little creative writing from a paper on a new launch system proposal, I am about to file with NASA and the White House. This is the final paragraph of the paper.
"For today's youth, that have looked to the same planets and stars.
Wondering if there is a place in man's exploration of them for me?
The hypersonic lift vehicle will help lift him or her there to that higher plane of educated effort and lofty goals. These rockets that light the skies will be their answer and means. With more lift capacity and more of the world's aerospace designs in orbit and mission, more of the world's youths can take those steps. Today's adults have found a way to send you there and made it possible for your presence there. We will join past, present and future generations with this program. We grow the education goals and dreams of today's and tomorrow's youths with this hypersonic lift vehicle program."
Has a nice ring to it yes?