Obama Rocks! Today! the most serious attempt against more wars! (829)
StressFree: Why so much hate for California Indy? Not enough Ford or Chevy trucks there to your liking?
It's too much like europe.
Actually, California is a semi-socialist utopia that should have absolutely no problems. Other that not having the $ to run all of it's government programs.
Indyfella: It's too much like europe.
Actually, California is a semi-socialist utopia that should have absolutely no problems. Other that not having the $ to run all of it's government programs.
Actually, California is a semi-socialist utopia that should have absolutely no problems. Other that not having the $ to run all of it's government programs.
It's nothing like Europe...trust me
Europe is not all that it is cracked up to be
It's cool for a vacation, but that's about it. I live in a bizarro sportsworld...
vinny1967: Morning Indy.............btw I know its just your opinion and you have always been respectful to me......
I have read so much crap about appointments to the Supreme Court I reckon its a political game. Liberal v Conservative. Democaratic v Republican and so on.
Also while the Supreme Court can't seem to make new Laws they can rule on what Laws are acceptable under the Constitution.
Either way I think interpretation of the Law is an individual thing. Im sure there has been and will be many debates on the interpretation of the law , before and after her appointment.
Either way I still come back to the point that the Supreme Court should be representative of the people.
JMO though.
I have read so much crap about appointments to the Supreme Court I reckon its a political game. Liberal v Conservative. Democaratic v Republican and so on.
Also while the Supreme Court can't seem to make new Laws they can rule on what Laws are acceptable under the Constitution.
Either way I think interpretation of the Law is an individual thing. Im sure there has been and will be many debates on the interpretation of the law , before and after her appointment.
Either way I still come back to the point that the Supreme Court should be representative of the people.
JMO though.
Seldom do most republicans vote down a liberal nominee, unless they have really made stupid comments.
Elections have consequences...as people will find out.
Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity
Arealguy69: Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity
So there's a problem with that?
Arealguy69: Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity
Indyfella: So there's a problem with that?
Ask muslim girls who have to get operated to look like virgins again.
So yes there is a problem with it.
NEW RADICAL LEFT REP POSITIONS and POLICIES Part II
Illegal immigration and border control and homeland security position of the NEW and VASTLY RADICALLY LEFT REP PARTY.
Heck with the SW border fence, fellas. Let us take that one down.
This is important to my comprehensive financial plan to pay for this new and improved REP Party's extremely far left platform. More on that soon. But this little protector of Americans is coming down with the REP party in power. Getting US citizenship is going to be made easy.
The old take a 20 hour class and raise your hand and take oath is way to hard for the average person to do. Now if the person can raise his hand....say "I do"...opps...wrong vow....says 'I am US', in any language (there are 2000 I think) known on earth....he get to be a US Citizen.
And Homeland Security....heck by the time we get done buying the entire world to like us....who is going to have any terrorists to kill us? So here we do a cost cutting and delete homeland security, NSA wire taps, and the CIA. Saving billions.
(Don't worry Jvarski, I am cost cutting already)
The NEW REP party position on Nuclear Disarmanent and Russia and China.
While this new REP party does not see any major reason for war. It does understand the need to threatened countries like Russia and China to have vast number nuclear weapons and multiple numbers of delivery systems. It is not like these two have not gone to war in the past (the Mongul Invasion of Europe I think was the last time China and Russia did a drag down fight). Russia is surely threatened by those 12 interceptor missile in Europe. And who knows when the Tiwian will mount an invasion of mainland China. So Russia and China have large number of nuclear weapons is clearly understood by the NEW REP party as a needed thing to keeping the world a safer place.
The NEW REP party feels that the US need to vastly reduce it nuclear weapons. Indeed no longer a threat to any country in the world, the US does not really need them any more. So the New REP Party suggests that our nuclear weapons be reduced to 1. Yes to ONE! Well you know that old just have ONE, to say you have ONE mentality. Or just to have one to smuggle into any country capitol in the world that might someday threaten the US. (Ala nuclear terrorism).
(But don't worry Dude, I doubt it will be Coppenhagen).
The NEW REP party positions on Cuba, Iran, Venezula, and Pakistan.
Gee this is getting fun now. With this change in our foreign policy and buying them, we don't have to worry about them any more. We can politely put our noses in the air when they do anything grevious in the world. We can carry the old...who cares attitude....it is their country, let them run it the way they want to.
If Castro wants to put 100,000 people into prison....hey is only Cubans, not the US responsiblity. Iran wants to do Pan Islam around the globe, hey is mostly Muslem that are effected, not the US responsilibity. Venesula wants to support FARC nacro terrorist in South America, hey is South America, not the US
responsiblity. Pakistan is having trouble with the Taliban and having 2.4 m fleeing them. With such nice places as the 'bloody
corner' where the Taliban is piling up bodies like cord wood, hey is Pakistan problem, not the US responsibility.
So this NEW REP party is taking a extreme far left isolation position in the world. You got a problem, you handle it. You make a stink, you clean it up.
Illegal immigration and border control and homeland security position of the NEW and VASTLY RADICALLY LEFT REP PARTY.
Heck with the SW border fence, fellas. Let us take that one down.
This is important to my comprehensive financial plan to pay for this new and improved REP Party's extremely far left platform. More on that soon. But this little protector of Americans is coming down with the REP party in power. Getting US citizenship is going to be made easy.
The old take a 20 hour class and raise your hand and take oath is way to hard for the average person to do. Now if the person can raise his hand....say "I do"...opps...wrong vow....says 'I am US', in any language (there are 2000 I think) known on earth....he get to be a US Citizen.
And Homeland Security....heck by the time we get done buying the entire world to like us....who is going to have any terrorists to kill us? So here we do a cost cutting and delete homeland security, NSA wire taps, and the CIA. Saving billions.
(Don't worry Jvarski, I am cost cutting already)
The NEW REP party position on Nuclear Disarmanent and Russia and China.
While this new REP party does not see any major reason for war. It does understand the need to threatened countries like Russia and China to have vast number nuclear weapons and multiple numbers of delivery systems. It is not like these two have not gone to war in the past (the Mongul Invasion of Europe I think was the last time China and Russia did a drag down fight). Russia is surely threatened by those 12 interceptor missile in Europe. And who knows when the Tiwian will mount an invasion of mainland China. So Russia and China have large number of nuclear weapons is clearly understood by the NEW REP party as a needed thing to keeping the world a safer place.
The NEW REP party feels that the US need to vastly reduce it nuclear weapons. Indeed no longer a threat to any country in the world, the US does not really need them any more. So the New REP Party suggests that our nuclear weapons be reduced to 1. Yes to ONE! Well you know that old just have ONE, to say you have ONE mentality. Or just to have one to smuggle into any country capitol in the world that might someday threaten the US. (Ala nuclear terrorism).
(But don't worry Dude, I doubt it will be Coppenhagen).
The NEW REP party positions on Cuba, Iran, Venezula, and Pakistan.
Gee this is getting fun now. With this change in our foreign policy and buying them, we don't have to worry about them any more. We can politely put our noses in the air when they do anything grevious in the world. We can carry the old...who cares attitude....it is their country, let them run it the way they want to.
If Castro wants to put 100,000 people into prison....hey is only Cubans, not the US responsiblity. Iran wants to do Pan Islam around the globe, hey is mostly Muslem that are effected, not the US responsilibity. Venesula wants to support FARC nacro terrorist in South America, hey is South America, not the US
responsiblity. Pakistan is having trouble with the Taliban and having 2.4 m fleeing them. With such nice places as the 'bloody
corner' where the Taliban is piling up bodies like cord wood, hey is Pakistan problem, not the US responsibility.
So this NEW REP party is taking a extreme far left isolation position in the world. You got a problem, you handle it. You make a stink, you clean it up.
The New REP Party positions and policies Part III
The NEW REP position on Global warning, Carbon Emission and C02
Well one first has to ask the scientific question to how many ice cubes can be made from the two polar ice caps. If the number is large enough to support mankind's drinking habits for the next 100s years, then most definitely yes, these polar ice caps should be defended and protected to the last resource in mankind's arsenal. :-)
But the New REP party understands that the United States was the inventor of the car and the combustion engine. Hence we have so grievously damaged the world's environment, that the world is in this poor and near hopeless condition of today. It is amazing that a blade of grass grows on planet Earth today. That a bird take wing. in it. Or a fish is found in the ocean.
To this end, the NEW ADVANCED REP party endorses fully the Kyoto Accords and any Emission standard set in them. Indeed under the
CARBON TAX program, a REP United States government will assume full cost too all auto emissions (of today and past) from the day Henry Ford made the first model A.
Indeed the NEW REP party position is not the 35 mpg average that President Obama desires.....but a 50 mpg average. But also the
REP Party will restict who owns a car and who owns a auto making company to assure that these standards are met both on the road and in production. Simple, the United States Gov't will own the car companies and own the cars that people buy.(ala socialism)
Please note how the gov't profits twice in that car sale. This socialism is pretty tricky stuff. They make it, you buy it, they own it.
(Don't worry Stress, we will still let you own and drive a Sabb)
The NEW REP position on Global warning, Carbon Emission and C02
Well one first has to ask the scientific question to how many ice cubes can be made from the two polar ice caps. If the number is large enough to support mankind's drinking habits for the next 100s years, then most definitely yes, these polar ice caps should be defended and protected to the last resource in mankind's arsenal. :-)
But the New REP party understands that the United States was the inventor of the car and the combustion engine. Hence we have so grievously damaged the world's environment, that the world is in this poor and near hopeless condition of today. It is amazing that a blade of grass grows on planet Earth today. That a bird take wing. in it. Or a fish is found in the ocean.
To this end, the NEW ADVANCED REP party endorses fully the Kyoto Accords and any Emission standard set in them. Indeed under the
CARBON TAX program, a REP United States government will assume full cost too all auto emissions (of today and past) from the day Henry Ford made the first model A.
Indeed the NEW REP party position is not the 35 mpg average that President Obama desires.....but a 50 mpg average. But also the
REP Party will restict who owns a car and who owns a auto making company to assure that these standards are met both on the road and in production. Simple, the United States Gov't will own the car companies and own the cars that people buy.(ala socialism)
Please note how the gov't profits twice in that car sale. This socialism is pretty tricky stuff. They make it, you buy it, they own it.
(Don't worry Stress, we will still let you own and drive a Sabb)
Conrad73: STOOOOOOOOOOOPID!
3rd Grade Schoolyard STOOOOOOPID!
Sorry Conrad I thought you were an old Stoooooopied man ..... 3rd Grade only? thats why you are so Stoooooooopid then! I did not know this ... now I really feel sorry for you and ashamed about concidered you as a real Buzo .....and ok ..... I will find you a good bogey to chew on any way ok? 3rd Grade Schoolyard STOOOOOOPID!
ttom500: 16 is not what I would call a major cross section of the 8 million Iraqi women, Vinny. Any reporter can get 16 people to complain (please note I use a non gendered noun there).
Is there dissatifaction within today's Iraq. Sure. The same with Ireland or Germany or the US. But if the dissatisfaction is large enough....that democracy can change it.
Most often change it without violence.
Note what the one woman say.....we are not free because of 'terrorism'....Vinny....terrorism----->AlQeada of Iraq...foreign fighters....the Batthe party.....Sadam's sons....Madhi Army.....
there are your terrorist groups in Iraq. Some were there even before the US got there. Think that this women's progressive movement had a chance to develop under Saddam's regime?
She does not say....'we not free because the US is here'. Though if she did....no one from the US would hunt her down to do her harm. But note who is giving the death threats. Not the US.
But the groups mentioned....or Iraqi that want to supress the women's right movements.
Go an live in the "liberated" Iraq TT! they really need tick headed republicnas who never ever getting it any way! And beside...... Iraq is an anarchy still and you will not have to pay much or any thing in taxes you see? Republican styled Paradise on Earth! Go there TT........dont waiste you time .......take Indy with you and make him minister of tortur and Conrad as the minister of how to steal nations money and hidden ,em is secret accounts! You will be allowed to get four wives even over there you see? Your Bushney,s brought Stupied and old fashioned laws to that poor countrt which for years was free of islamism as the way of life in Saudi arabia is for example and after the Stupied invation ..... hisotry went back and fenatism has become the main way of rullling most places over there! Is there dissatifaction within today's Iraq. Sure. The same with Ireland or Germany or the US. But if the dissatisfaction is large enough....that democracy can change it.
Most often change it without violence.
Note what the one woman say.....we are not free because of 'terrorism'....Vinny....terrorism----->AlQeada of Iraq...foreign fighters....the Batthe party.....Sadam's sons....Madhi Army.....
there are your terrorist groups in Iraq. Some were there even before the US got there. Think that this women's progressive movement had a chance to develop under Saddam's regime?
She does not say....'we not free because the US is here'. Though if she did....no one from the US would hunt her down to do her harm. But note who is giving the death threats. Not the US.
But the groups mentioned....or Iraqi that want to supress the women's right movements.
just one thing to remember....... Never Ever tell any body over there a bout you love for the Bushney,s ....they may through a Shoe or much bigger and heavier stuff on your head(s)
Indyfella: I live in terror having Obama/Biden running the country. Time to get the UN involved. Maybe they can do something?
I really hope "You Specially" are going to pay a lot in TAXES and your money goes to the poor and the unemployed and the sick Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii 
The NEW EXTREMELY FAR REP COMPREHENSIVE FINANCIAL PLAN FOR THE
UNITED STATES.
Well this is it. The monet you are waiting for. That moment in reading these post, when I explain how the NEW REP Gov't can pay for these vast changes in the United States and the World that it now advocates. Really one needs to see the world as a global economy of supplier and users.
It is pretty easy and simple really.
The United States has some of the world best bio tect firms.
Frims that can make designer drugs that are so addicting and powerful....take one hit and you have an addiction. Got it?
Simple the United States turns these drug firms from making legal drugs to illegal drugs. We began mass export of them to the world. (We have the business models of Noreiga in Panama, Chavez in Venzula, and many many Columbian drugs lords doing it). Surely with a little water boarding of those in captivity, we can gleam all the finer points to this trade.
I figure in a couple of months of this, we would have 1/6th of world addicted. A cool 1 b customers buying US made drugs. With a growing world population hooking more, would be pretty easy.
Sure you got some delivery chain problems. But hey like South American drug trafficer now using submaries to deliver crack to the US. Who has one of the world large sub fleets? You got it, good old Uncle Sam. Instead of firing cruise missile at bad guys, they can firing drug filled torpedos to go fast boats off the shores off all the countries of the world. We can cover most the of the globe that way.
The take down of the border fence between the US and Mexico help the export also. MUles can bring grass and crack north, and then on the return trip south take design drugs of the US. No dead heading that way. And we got the South American market distribution done.
Think that revenues of today's drug lord is big? When you see the take on this operation, you can shut down your banks. There will be so much illegal money dry cleaning in the world, the banks will not need a bailouts. Another world problem solved.
The NEW REP Party....so extreme that you never knew it. So deadly you don't want to..........
(Don't worry Dude, Stress, Vinny, Jarvski....only kidding, REP would never do this.)
UNITED STATES.
Well this is it. The monet you are waiting for. That moment in reading these post, when I explain how the NEW REP Gov't can pay for these vast changes in the United States and the World that it now advocates. Really one needs to see the world as a global economy of supplier and users.
It is pretty easy and simple really.
The United States has some of the world best bio tect firms.
Frims that can make designer drugs that are so addicting and powerful....take one hit and you have an addiction. Got it?
Simple the United States turns these drug firms from making legal drugs to illegal drugs. We began mass export of them to the world. (We have the business models of Noreiga in Panama, Chavez in Venzula, and many many Columbian drugs lords doing it). Surely with a little water boarding of those in captivity, we can gleam all the finer points to this trade.
I figure in a couple of months of this, we would have 1/6th of world addicted. A cool 1 b customers buying US made drugs. With a growing world population hooking more, would be pretty easy.
Sure you got some delivery chain problems. But hey like South American drug trafficer now using submaries to deliver crack to the US. Who has one of the world large sub fleets? You got it, good old Uncle Sam. Instead of firing cruise missile at bad guys, they can firing drug filled torpedos to go fast boats off the shores off all the countries of the world. We can cover most the of the globe that way.
The take down of the border fence between the US and Mexico help the export also. MUles can bring grass and crack north, and then on the return trip south take design drugs of the US. No dead heading that way. And we got the South American market distribution done.
Think that revenues of today's drug lord is big? When you see the take on this operation, you can shut down your banks. There will be so much illegal money dry cleaning in the world, the banks will not need a bailouts. Another world problem solved.
The NEW REP Party....so extreme that you never knew it. So deadly you don't want to..........
(Don't worry Dude, Stress, Vinny, Jarvski....only kidding, REP would never do this.)
Arealguy69: Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity
Great quote, can we place it in the CS quote hall of fame?
ttom, you have a great sense of humor. Baseball players are like that
ttom500: Great quote, can we place it in the CS quote hall of fame?
Be my guest...
Indyfella: See Vinny...why there are glib responses.
Yeah you are soooooooooo inoncent Indyfella like a Saint 
wixomwizard: Atta boy Dude, we knew you'd see the error of you way's.
ttom500: The NEW EXTREMELY FAR REP COMPREHENSIVE FINANCIAL PLAN FOR THE
UNITED STATES.
Well this is it. The monet you are waiting for. That moment in reading these post, when I explain how the NEW REP Gov't can pay for these vast changes in the United States and the World that it now advocates. Really one needs to see the world as a global economy of supplier and users.
It is pretty easy and simple really.
The United States has some of the world best bio tect firms.
Frims that can make designer drugs that are so addicting and powerful....take one hit and you have an addiction. Got it?
Simple the United States turns these drug firms from making legal drugs to illegal drugs. We began mass export of them to the world. (We have the business models of Noreiga in Panama, Chavez in Venzula, and many many Columbian drugs lords doing it). Surely with a little water boarding of those in captivity, we can gleam all the finer points to this trade.
I figure in a couple of months of this, we would have 1/6th of world addicted. A cool 1 b customers buying US made drugs. With a growing world population hooking more, would be pretty easy.
Sure you got some delivery chain problems. But hey like South American drug trafficer now using submaries to deliver crack to the US. Who has one of the world large sub fleets? You got it, good old Uncle Sam. Instead of firing cruise missile at bad guys, they can firing drug filled torpedos to go fast boats off the shores off all the countries of the world. We can cover most the of the globe that way.
The take down of the border fence between the US and Mexico help the export also. MUles can bring grass and crack north, and then on the return trip south take design drugs of the US. No dead heading that way. And we got the South American market distribution done.
Think that revenues of today's drug lord is big? When you see the take on this operation, you can shut down your banks. There will be so much illegal money dry cleaning in the world, the banks will not need a bailouts. Another world problem solved.
The NEW REP Party....so extreme that you never knew it. So deadly you don't want to..........
(Don't worry Dude, Stress, Vinny, Jarvski....only kidding, REP would never do this.)
UNITED STATES.
Well this is it. The monet you are waiting for. That moment in reading these post, when I explain how the NEW REP Gov't can pay for these vast changes in the United States and the World that it now advocates. Really one needs to see the world as a global economy of supplier and users.
It is pretty easy and simple really.
The United States has some of the world best bio tect firms.
Frims that can make designer drugs that are so addicting and powerful....take one hit and you have an addiction. Got it?
Simple the United States turns these drug firms from making legal drugs to illegal drugs. We began mass export of them to the world. (We have the business models of Noreiga in Panama, Chavez in Venzula, and many many Columbian drugs lords doing it). Surely with a little water boarding of those in captivity, we can gleam all the finer points to this trade.
I figure in a couple of months of this, we would have 1/6th of world addicted. A cool 1 b customers buying US made drugs. With a growing world population hooking more, would be pretty easy.
Sure you got some delivery chain problems. But hey like South American drug trafficer now using submaries to deliver crack to the US. Who has one of the world large sub fleets? You got it, good old Uncle Sam. Instead of firing cruise missile at bad guys, they can firing drug filled torpedos to go fast boats off the shores off all the countries of the world. We can cover most the of the globe that way.
The take down of the border fence between the US and Mexico help the export also. MUles can bring grass and crack north, and then on the return trip south take design drugs of the US. No dead heading that way. And we got the South American market distribution done.
Think that revenues of today's drug lord is big? When you see the take on this operation, you can shut down your banks. There will be so much illegal money dry cleaning in the world, the banks will not need a bailouts. Another world problem solved.
The NEW REP Party....so extreme that you never knew it. So deadly you don't want to..........
(Don't worry Dude, Stress, Vinny, Jarvski....only kidding, REP would never do this.)
A better, shorter plan: Republicans got nowhere by being vile to people.....why not try out being nice to them for a bit!
(just being helpful)Hot_Single_Dude: Long live Bushney,s!!!!!!!!! FOREVER!!!!!!!!!
Right on Bro....now you see the light!
StressFree: ttom, you have a great sense of humor. Baseball players are like that
Leave it to Stress to figure out what players talk about while sitting on the bench.
Fallingman: A better, shorter plan: Republicans got nowhere by being vile to people.....why not try out being nice to them for a bit! (just being helpful)
All political advice to the NEW REP party are first placed in commentary box. One slip of paper per day will be withdrawn and
read. The GOP leadership committee cannot handle excessive amounts of political comments at this time.
The next step in the process, is to run the comment by the following committee for approval. R. Limbaugh, D. Steele, B. O'Reilly, S. Palin and D. Cheney.
Once advice has been approved in the NEW REP party, it will be posted online for transperancy and rating purposes. If the comment receives a rating lower than GWB last poll numbers, it is discontinued advice.
ttom500: Leave it to Stress to figure out what players talk about while sitting on the bench.
That's like my moment of zen in between innings. On the bench, at the park, in the dugout, and just being the real me...a baseball player.
I love chattin with the fellas on the bench. Oh gosh, the talks we have in between pitches.
My next game is not until wednesday. Too long of a wait. My swing is better than ever and I gotta wait to use it....
ttom500: I have thought about this question a lot. I think in cases like
abu Grail prison scandle, the deaths of the 20 by a marine platoon, etc. I can not disagree that terror and fear were not caused. Both did happen.
I am not saying we are prefect or have fought a conflict in Iraq that we did not cause fear in the Iraqi civilians. I am saying that these are infrequent and not wide spread in occurrance. That they were unplanned by our military command.
Vinny, but when compared to AlQeada of Iraq ...in a two month period in Baghdad, we compromised 5 torture houses of AlQeada.
With literally 100s of drive bys and kidnappings. Thankfully, we are not even close to being as brutal. There the leadership planned a campaign of fear and terrorism.
I am not justifying our wrongs with the wrongs of the enemy. I felt that the command levels of Abu Grail prison, should have been in front of a court martial as well....reason and charges....negilence of duty as a officer to oversee their unit's activities. The investigators saw it another way.
I think that for a time there was a cover up on the Marine platoon incident. On each of those and others, military justice did grind into play. People did hard time at Leavenworth.
Officers lost rank, commands and retirement benefits.
McGovern's book is a good one. He was a JAG officer there. He tried both foreign fighters and US personnel involved in these incidents. If I get more, I will pass it on here.
I now have read Gen Sanchez book, he was in command during the prison scandle. And Tommy Frank's book. A number of short pieces by other command level officers.
Surely none would write in a bib if he ordered.....a act of terrorism. But you can get a general feeling if he could make such a order by the book's tone and wording.
I am not reading hate in their words, Vinny. Though McGovern goes after bin Laden after 9/11 like he was middle linebacker seeking QB to sack.:-) The fact is, he was a NFL linebacker. So was I, though not NFL level. I know the desire to punish an opponent. To drive him into the ground, to hurt him. I am not seeing that in their words.
And yes, Vinny from our experience in Nam....when the parent's don't let their kids run to the Helo....they are either scared or hostile.
abu Grail prison scandle, the deaths of the 20 by a marine platoon, etc. I can not disagree that terror and fear were not caused. Both did happen.
I am not saying we are prefect or have fought a conflict in Iraq that we did not cause fear in the Iraqi civilians. I am saying that these are infrequent and not wide spread in occurrance. That they were unplanned by our military command.
Vinny, but when compared to AlQeada of Iraq ...in a two month period in Baghdad, we compromised 5 torture houses of AlQeada.
With literally 100s of drive bys and kidnappings. Thankfully, we are not even close to being as brutal. There the leadership planned a campaign of fear and terrorism.
I am not justifying our wrongs with the wrongs of the enemy. I felt that the command levels of Abu Grail prison, should have been in front of a court martial as well....reason and charges....negilence of duty as a officer to oversee their unit's activities. The investigators saw it another way.
I think that for a time there was a cover up on the Marine platoon incident. On each of those and others, military justice did grind into play. People did hard time at Leavenworth.
Officers lost rank, commands and retirement benefits.
McGovern's book is a good one. He was a JAG officer there. He tried both foreign fighters and US personnel involved in these incidents. If I get more, I will pass it on here.
I now have read Gen Sanchez book, he was in command during the prison scandle. And Tommy Frank's book. A number of short pieces by other command level officers.
Surely none would write in a bib if he ordered.....a act of terrorism. But you can get a general feeling if he could make such a order by the book's tone and wording.
I am not reading hate in their words, Vinny. Though McGovern goes after bin Laden after 9/11 like he was middle linebacker seeking QB to sack.:-) The fact is, he was a NFL linebacker. So was I, though not NFL level. I know the desire to punish an opponent. To drive him into the ground, to hurt him. I am not seeing that in their words.
And yes, Vinny from our experience in Nam....when the parent's don't let their kids run to the Helo....they are either scared or hostile.
AlQueda,last time I checked they were known as the CIA..
Keep talking Ttom,its entertaining to say the least. Yep war on Terror
an endless war...whoes the real enemy????ttom500: I have thought about this question a lot. I think in cases like
abu Grail prison scandle, the deaths of the 20 by a marine platoon, etc. I can not disagree that terror and fear were not caused. Both did happen.
I am not saying we are prefect or have fought a conflict in Iraq that we did not cause fear in the Iraqi civilians. I am saying that these are infrequent and not wide spread in occurrance. That they were unplanned by our military command.
Vinny, but when compared to AlQeada of Iraq ...in a two month period in Baghdad, we compromised 5 torture houses of AlQeada.
With literally 100s of drive bys and kidnappings. Thankfully, we are not even close to being as brutal. There the leadership planned a campaign of fear and terrorism.
I am not justifying our wrongs with the wrongs of the enemy. I felt that the command levels of Abu Grail prison, should have been in front of a court martial as well....reason and charges....negilence of duty as a officer to oversee their unit's activities. The investigators saw it another way.
I think that for a time there was a cover up on the Marine platoon incident. On each of those and others, military justice did grind into play. People did hard time at Leavenworth.
Officers lost rank, commands and retirement benefits.
McGovern's book is a good one. He was a JAG officer there. He tried both foreign fighters and US personnel involved in these incidents. If I get more, I will pass it on here.
I now have read Gen Sanchez book, he was in command during the prison scandle. And Tommy Frank's book. A number of short pieces by other command level officers.
Surely none would write in a bib if he ordered.....a act of terrorism. But you can get a general feeling if he could make such a order by the book's tone and wording.
I am not reading hate in their words, Vinny. Though McGovern goes after bin Laden after 9/11 like he was middle linebacker seeking QB to sack.:-) The fact is, he was a NFL linebacker. So was I, though not NFL level. I know the desire to punish an opponent. To drive him into the ground, to hurt him. I am not seeing that in their words.
And yes, Vinny from our experience in Nam....when the parent's don't let their kids run to the Helo....they are either scared or hostile.
abu Grail prison scandle, the deaths of the 20 by a marine platoon, etc. I can not disagree that terror and fear were not caused. Both did happen.
I am not saying we are prefect or have fought a conflict in Iraq that we did not cause fear in the Iraqi civilians. I am saying that these are infrequent and not wide spread in occurrance. That they were unplanned by our military command.
Vinny, but when compared to AlQeada of Iraq ...in a two month period in Baghdad, we compromised 5 torture houses of AlQeada.
With literally 100s of drive bys and kidnappings. Thankfully, we are not even close to being as brutal. There the leadership planned a campaign of fear and terrorism.
I am not justifying our wrongs with the wrongs of the enemy. I felt that the command levels of Abu Grail prison, should have been in front of a court martial as well....reason and charges....negilence of duty as a officer to oversee their unit's activities. The investigators saw it another way.
I think that for a time there was a cover up on the Marine platoon incident. On each of those and others, military justice did grind into play. People did hard time at Leavenworth.
Officers lost rank, commands and retirement benefits.
McGovern's book is a good one. He was a JAG officer there. He tried both foreign fighters and US personnel involved in these incidents. If I get more, I will pass it on here.
I now have read Gen Sanchez book, he was in command during the prison scandle. And Tommy Frank's book. A number of short pieces by other command level officers.
Surely none would write in a bib if he ordered.....a act of terrorism. But you can get a general feeling if he could make such a order by the book's tone and wording.
I am not reading hate in their words, Vinny. Though McGovern goes after bin Laden after 9/11 like he was middle linebacker seeking QB to sack.:-) The fact is, he was a NFL linebacker. So was I, though not NFL level. I know the desire to punish an opponent. To drive him into the ground, to hurt him. I am not seeing that in their words.
And yes, Vinny from our experience in Nam....when the parent's don't let their kids run to the Helo....they are either scared or hostile.
AlQueda,last time I checked they were known as the CIA..
Keep talking Ttom,its entertaining to say the least. Yep war on Terror
an endless war...whoes the real enemy????Anyway you can post that again? I did not get it the second time
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I can see Obama forcing it.
Why so much hate for California Indy? Not enough Ford or Chevy trucks there to your liking?