Should it be against the law to text and drive? (109)

Jan 30, 2010 1:25 AM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
navygirl1
navygirl1navygirl1Calgary, Alberta Canada6 Threads 1,586 Posts
Some Stats I just found the top ten reasons for accidents as done by a study at Harvard University.

1. Cell phone use – Harvard University conducted a study that indicated that individuals using cell phones caused 200 deaths and millions of accident related injures. These drivers are four times more likely to cause an accident.

2. Changing CD/Radio

3. Eating in the car – applying make-up, reading and eating

4. Rubbernecking – despite what most people might think,

5. Drinking and driving

6. Drug use

7. Driver Distraction – kids, animals and construction sites often distract individuals as much as any cell phone or car accidents we see.

8. Speeding

9. Recklessness – some people adopt a willful disregard for the traffic regulations that make our roads safer.

10. Shoddy road maintenance


And people wonder why I like to cycle on the bike paths? help
Jan 30, 2010 1:45 AM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
hunter501
hunter501hunter501letterkenny, Donegal Ireland1 Threads 50 Posts
Useing a phone while driveing is against the Law in Ireland.It's only for our on safety .Good Law Silly you.javascript:emot('thumbs down');
Jan 30, 2010 2:07 AM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
hunter501
hunter501hunter501letterkenny, Donegal Ireland1 Threads 50 Posts
navygirl1: I agree with that. I turn my cell phone off in the car and only put in on when I am pulled over or out of the car. I have had too many close calls with cell phone drivers wandering in two lanes. I hear the hands free system might work.
Yes Navygirl hand's free system's do work,I have one.You can buy a kit at any Motor Store,and you no need to spend big money either,now with all phone's haveing Bluetooth.javascript:emot('cheers');
Jan 30, 2010 2:18 AM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
Godsgift
GodsgiftGodsgiftEnnis, Clare Ireland251 Threads 13 Polls 10,040 Posts
navygirl1: Some Stats I just found the top ten reasons for accidents as done by a study at Harvard University.

1. Cell phone use – Harvard University conducted a study that indicated that individuals using cell phones caused 200 deaths and millions of accident related injures. These drivers are four times more likely to cause an accident.

2. Changing CD/Radio

3. Eating in the car – applying make-up, reading and eating

4. Rubbernecking – despite what most people might think,

5. Drinking and driving

6. Drug use

7. Driver Distraction – kids, animals and construction sites often distract individuals as much as any cell phone or car accidents we see.

8. Speeding

9. Recklessness – some people adopt a willful disregard for the traffic regulations that make our roads safer.

10. Shoddy road maintenance And people wonder why I like to cycle on the bike paths?



You and Hunter stole my thunder. Inspite of your man ranting on about why not ban driving and there being no statistical evidence, cell phones actually cause more accidents than drink driving. You always know when you're driving behind someone who is on the phone. They are all over the road.wave
Jan 30, 2010 2:20 AM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
libertine5
libertine5libertine5Colorado Springs, Colorado USA38 Posts
You're missing the point. If you hit somebody, their car, their property , drive off the road: There are laws against that. The Reason why is erroneous. What is the difference between killing somebody on the highway being drunk or texting or being an old person, or being tired or changing your cd?

There is no difference between the reason. What you want is to prosecute the result, because the cause is always the same: People refusing to drive responsibly. There should be a consequence for that which there is, inprisonment. Do you go around driving drunk and blind folded? NO.. because you value your life and safety more than you value a free ticket to a prison cell or death.
Jan 30, 2010 2:24 AM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
libertine5
libertine5libertine5Colorado Springs, Colorado USA38 Posts
By the way, the roads aren't any safer because people continue to text and drive, drink and drive etc etc.
Jan 30, 2010 2:44 AM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
onemoretry63
onemoretry63onemoretry63Rieden, Bavaria Germany10 Threads 591 Posts
It's against the law to use a cell phone while driving here in Germany
and unless you have 4 arms and can txt blind or have another set of eyes you should have enough common sense to know that driving and smsing don't mix
Jan 30, 2010 5:11 AM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
thewall2
thewall2thewall2montreal, Quebec Canada61 Threads 10,499 Posts
Heather2212: Do you text and drive?



Absolutely against it,losing a brother from a car accident...I'm against texting,talking on cell phones while driving,etc.
I don't care what anybody says,it's hard to do two things at the same time,and do them both well.


Alot of fatal car accidents happen because of the stipidity of someone texting and driving at the same time,you just don't know they were texting and driving,because they're dead and can't tell you about it.


Fact.
Jan 30, 2010 5:25 AM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
IT IS against the law to do so.....as well it should be....

confused
Jan 30, 2010 11:49 AM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
AmericanGardener
AmericanGardenerAmericanGardenerchesterfield, Michigan USA64 Posts
Heather2212: I think it should be against the law bc alot of ppl have been hurt/killed by ppl texting and driving. I mean, I have done it, yes Im guilty too, but......I still think it isn't safe, and its impossible to look at the words on your phone and at the road at the same time.


Ok.. let's say we could make it a crime to be stupid while driving? What should the penalties be?

I'm not one in favor of making laws that infringe on our freedom. So this is a tough call for me. I agree that there are too many stupid people out there driving who can't seem to put down the cellphones long enough to get from point A to point B and that they are endangering and killing others by being so stupid. But, I'm concerned about how the punishment will be if they do make it a crime. If it's anything like usual.. it will be monetary. Government will take the opportunity to take excessive amounts of money from people just like they always do with no regard to the actual crime. No bearing whatsoever.. no steps to prevent future offences, and it's got nothing to do with making the punishment fit the crime. I would suggest first offence they take away the cell phones and give a warning. Second offence they are ordered to take a class to learn how to not be stupid again. Third and any offence in which they've actually caused an accident. Then confiscation of the vehicle.. just like they do for every other crime and/or Jail time.
Jan 30, 2010 11:57 AM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
Englishman55
Englishman55Englishman55Salisbury, Wiltshire, England UK31 Threads 2 Polls 6,405 Posts
AmericanGardener: Ok.. let's say we could make it a crime to be stupid while driving? What should the penalties be?

I'm not one in favor of making laws that infringe on our freedom. So this is a tough call for me. I agree that there are too many stupid people out there driving who can't seem to put down the cellphones long enough to get from point A to point B and that they are endangering and killing others by being so stupid. But, I'm concerned about how the punishment will be if they do make it a crime. If it's anything like usual.. it will be monetary. Government will take the opportunity to take excessive amounts of money from people just like they always do with no regard to the actual crime. No bearing whatsoever.. no steps to prevent future offences, and it's got nothing to do with making the punishment fit the crime. I would suggest first offence they take away the cell phones and give a warning. Second offence they are ordered to take a class to learn how to not be stupid again. Third and any offence in which they've actually caused an accident. Then confiscation of the vehicle.. just like they do for every other crime and/or Jail time.


A car should be classed as a dangerous weapon the same as a knife or a gun, that way the punishment would be the same as shooting someone, should you kill a person while driving and texting.

This has nothing to do with personal freedom, apart from the fact that YOU may take away someone elses freedom to live, while you are texting and driving.

A knife can be picked up and used by a sensible user with no ill affect, the same as a car can be driven by a sensible user with no ill affect.

To drive a car properly, it takes 100% concentration..... something you cannot do while texting.

Lets hope no-one in your family is ever killed by a driver who was found to be texting.... doh
Jan 30, 2010 12:03 PM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
solitare
solitaresolitareBariloche, Rio Negro Argentina40 Threads 4,041 Posts
Heather2212: I think it should be against the law bc alot of ppl have been hurt/killed by ppl texting and driving. I mean, I have done it, yes Im guilty too, but......I still think it isn't safe, and its impossible to look at the words on your phone and at the road at the same time.


Depends upon your perspective; we need to get more people off the roads permanently and helping them get off the roads should be encouraged by letting them text and drive and hopefully crash...anything that would help them do so should not be made 'against the law'...just another hindrance to population control!
professor laugh
Jan 30, 2010 12:25 PM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
AmericanGardener
AmericanGardenerAmericanGardenerchesterfield, Michigan USA64 Posts
Englishman55: A car should be classed as a dangerous weapon the same as a knife or a gun, that way the punishment would be the same as shooting someone, should you kill a person while driving and texting.

This has nothing to do with personal freedom, apart from the fact that YOU may take away someone elses freedom to live, while you are texting and driving.

A knife can be picked up and used by a sensible user with no ill affect, the same as a car can be driven by a sensible user with no ill affect.

To drive a car properly, it takes 100% concentration..... something you cannot do while texting.

Lets hope no-one in your family is ever killed by a driver who was found to be texting....


Totally bass ackwards there EM.. you are taking away the freedoms of those who do obey common sense by forcing laws on everyone just because some may not be smart enough to do what is right. So yes you are taking away a persons freedom.

I got no problem with considering a car a deadly weapon. Used by the proper people it's totally harmless to you and i and everyone else. Used by stupid people it can cause death and destruction. But we can't legislate stupidity! I will completely agree with you on the punishment that should be imposed if anyone does cause death. Like i said. Let the punishment fit the crime. Let's hope no one in your family is ever killed by anyone for any reason. And lets hope that they can be free to use their own common sense without being forced to use someone elses.
Jan 30, 2010 12:49 PM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
bodleing
bodleingbodleingGreater Manchester, England UK238 Threads 8 Polls 13,810 Posts
AmericanGardener: Ok.. let's say we could make it a crime to be stupid while driving? What should the penalties be?

I'm not one in favor of making laws that infringe on our freedom. So this is a tough call for me. I agree that there are too many stupid people out there driving who can't seem to put down the cellphones long enough to get from point A to point B and that they are endangering and killing others by being so stupid. But, I'm concerned about how the punishment will be if they do make it a crime. If it's anything like usual.. it will be monetary. Government will take the opportunity to take excessive amounts of money from people just like they always do with no regard to the actual crime. No bearing whatsoever.. no steps to prevent future offences, and it's got nothing to do with making the punishment fit the crime. I would suggest first offence they take away the cell phones and give a warning. Second offence they are ordered to take a class to learn how to not be stupid again. Third and any offence in which they've actually caused an accident. Then confiscation of the vehicle.. just like they do for every other crime and/or Jail time.


Quite simple here in the uk.

£60 fine, three penalty points,(accumulate twelve and you're banned)
However as I mentioned in an earlier post, should you cause a fatal
accident whilst driving and using a cell phone you will be charged
with manslaughter and can expect a jail sentence of up to fourteen years.
Jan 30, 2010 3:32 PM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
navygirl1
navygirl1navygirl1Calgary, Alberta Canada6 Threads 1,586 Posts
solitare: Depends upon your perspective; we need to get more people off the roads permanently and helping them get off the roads should be encouraged by letting them text and drive and hopefully crash...anything that would help them do so should not be made 'against the law'...just another hindrance to population control!


Problem is when these people crash it is usually with someone else. I personally think more people should be suspended from diving for dangerous habits. For example the guy that drove into the back of me while I was stopped at a light on a nice clear, hot sunny day should have been banned from driving for at least 6 months or even a year. Can't speak for Victoria, but Calgary has become a very dangerous place to drive. I risk an accident every single day driving here and every single day there are dozens of accidents here because of careless driving. very mad
Jan 30, 2010 3:49 PM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
bodleing
bodleingbodleingGreater Manchester, England UK238 Threads 8 Polls 13,810 Posts
Motorists caught using a hand-held mobile phone while driving could be jailed for two years under tough new guidelines issued today by prosecutors.

Drivers who adjust sat-navs, tinker with MP3 music players such as iPods or send text messages at the wheel could also face prison sentences.

Prosecutions will be brought if by using the equipment a motorist is judged to have posed a danger to other drivers, such as causing another car to swerve.

Using a hand-held mobile while driving was outlawed in 2003, but it is estimated that half a million motorists flout the ban each day.

Existing guidelines restricted prosecutors to pursuing only a charge of careless driving, for which the maximum fine is £5,000 along with up to nine points on a motorist's licence.

But under the new rules, drivers could be charged with dangerous driving, which carries a maximum sentence of two years in jail.

It is believed that by increasing the penalties, drivers will start to take the law seriously.

"This sends a clear message to motorists: don't mix driving and communicating, just as you would not drink and drive," said Rob Gifford, of the Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport Safety.

"This is long overdue. At last the law has caught up with the reality of the road, with too many people using their phone while driving."

But Paul Biggs, a spokesman for the Association of British Drivers, said: "This does seem over the top. I would never condone using a hand-held mobile and would never do it myself. But existing laws cover it and there are plenty of other things which are distracting."

The new guidelines mean prosecutors will be able to go for a dangerous driving charge, which carries the punishment of an unlimited fine as well as a two-year jail term.

In addition, drivers who kill while using mobile phones could be charged with causing death by dangerous driving, which carries a 14-year jail term. In extreme cases they could be charged with manslaughter for which a life term can be imposed.

A new offence of causing death by careless driving is to be created under the Road Safety Act, due to come into force early next year.

The new guidelines follow a consultation by the Crown Prosecution Service on the policy it should adopt on dealing with cases of "bad driving" brought before the courts.

Using a hand-held mobile was made illegal in 2003, when the penalty was limited to a £30 fine, but it acted as little deterrent and the latest figures show that in 2005 129,700 motorists still flouted the ban.

In February the law was toughened, with drivers facing a £60 fine and three points on their licence.
Drivers were also warned that similar penalties could be imposed for using a hands-free device if they were judged not to be in control of their car.

Jan 30, 2010 4:01 PM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
rohaan
rohaanrohaanCoos Bay, Oregon USA230 Threads 10,534 Posts
I would like to think of myself as being very liberal and understanding, to the point of not really caring for more and more regulations. However, there are some rules/laws that are absolutely necessary. Here's what I believe: Driving is a full time job. It can be hazardous even under the best conditions. I think eating, drinking, smoking, cell phone and or any other media,* vision, whether it's a small t.v. or dvd player, etc...in short, NOTHING in the driver's hand(s) except the wheel and gear shifter! NOTHING.



*exception to phone use: a non-hand held device, such as blue tooth, but no software requiring hand grappling, even a teensie weensie bit. Both hands free 100% of the time to use for driving. No exceptions.
Jan 30, 2010 4:01 PM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
My previous answer was yes.Maybe everything should be banned.
Jan 30, 2010 4:03 PM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
rohaan
rohaanrohaanCoos Bay, Oregon USA230 Threads 10,534 Posts
Hi Bodleing! javascript:PopupEmoticons();reunion
Jan 30, 2010 4:06 PM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
rohaan
rohaanrohaanCoos Bay, Oregon USA230 Threads 10,534 Posts
somechick: My previous answer was yes.Maybe everything should be banned.
Oh, you know we don't mean it that way. Look at it this way--my dentist has a studded drill and is working on my upper inner molar. He has a cell phone in his hand, and is balancing a cup of hot coffee between the calls. Great! (it's the same sort of thing. Driving requires full, undivided attention).
Jan 30, 2010 4:28 PM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
rohaan: Oh, you know we don't mean it that way. Look at it this way--my dentist has a studded drill and is working on my upper inner molar. He has a cell phone in his hand, and is balancing a cup of hot coffee between the calls. Great! (it's the same sort of thing. Driving requires full, undivided attention).



I know driving entails full attention.Yes I know what you mean.
Jan 31, 2010 9:27 PM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
jvaski
jvaskijvaskiunknown, California USA115 Threads 11 Polls 9,576 Posts
Only Women should be banned from texting and cell use while driving .......men can multi-task ......thumbs up dunno
Jan 31, 2010 10:04 PM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
solitare
solitaresolitareBariloche, Rio Negro Argentina40 Threads 4,041 Posts
navygirl1: Problem is when these people crash it is usually with someone else. I personally think more people should be suspended from diving for dangerous habits. For example the guy that drove into the back of me while I was stopped at a light on a nice clear, hot sunny day should have been banned from driving for at least 6 months or even a year. Can't speak for Victoria, but Calgary has become a very dangerous place to drive. I risk an accident every single day driving here and every single day there are dozens of accidents here because of careless driving.



I have never driven in a city anywhere in North America where the people know how to drive. I think that it really is true that most get their licenses from inside cereal boxes and those that do not, get them from gumball machines. "Tween the US and Canada, both are highly dangerous mainly because drivers will not drive safely and have absolutely no regard for either the traffic laws or for other driers, let alone cyclists and pedestrians.
I hate driving with all the clowns, drunks and egomaniacs all over the roads and streets. There are no Hollywood car flicks being made but many drive as auditioning for one. South America is not better however; cars go on sidewalks, cut through playgrounds, scattering people and kids all over, and parks to avoid lights, well, actually the car jams as no one pays any attention to the lights...like Paris!laugh Many regard driving as an 'extreme sport'...at night, no one uses headlights 'because they hurt the eyes', including cross country buses and that is the main reason so many go over mountains or slide into piranha infested rivers... laugh (especially in Brazil)
My remedy would be to drive a Leopard tank, full speed ahead!laugh Seriously. Squash them all.
Many cyclists here are as bad as the car drivers...all in a frenzy...
Jan 31, 2010 10:09 PM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
jvaski
jvaskijvaskiunknown, California USA115 Threads 11 Polls 9,576 Posts
solitare: I have never driven in a city anywhere in North America where the people know how to drive. I think that it really is true that most get their licenses from inside cereal boxes and those that do not, get them from gumball machines. "Tween the US and Canada, both are highly dangerous mainly because drivers will not drive safely and have absolutely no regard for either the traffic laws or for other driers, let alone cyclists and pedestrians.
I hate driving with all the clowns, drunks and egomaniacs all over the roads and streets. There are no Hollywood car flicks being made but many drive as auditioning for one. South America is not better however; cars go on sidewalks, cut through playgrounds, scattering people and kids all over, and parks to avoid lights, well, actually the car jams as no one pays any attention to the lights...like Paris! Many regard driving as an 'extreme sport'...at night, no one uses headlights 'because they hurt the eyes', including cross country buses and that is the main reason so many go over mountains or slide into piranha infested rivers... (especially in Brazil)
My remedy would be to drive a Leopard tank, full speed ahead! Seriously. Squash them all.
Many cyclists here are as bad as the car drivers...all in a frenzy...


That's why our police officers issue "DWO" tickets here ....!roll eyes
Feb 2, 2010 1:05 AM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
AmericanGardener
AmericanGardenerAmericanGardenerchesterfield, Michigan USA64 Posts
rohaan: I would like to think of myself as being very liberal and understanding, to the point of not really caring for more and more regulations. However, there are some rules/laws that are absolutely necessary. Here's what I believe: Driving is a full time job. It can be hazardous even under the best conditions. I think eating, drinking, smoking, cell phone and or any other media,* vision, whether it's a small t.v. or dvd player, etc...in short, NOTHING in the driver's hand(s) except the wheel and gear shifter! NOTHING.
*exception to phone use: a non-hand held device, such as blue tooth, but no software requiring hand grappling, even a teensie weensie bit. Both hands free 100% of the time to use for driving. No exceptions.


I hope you're not all taking my responses the wrong way. I'm in agreement that no one should be texting while driving, or talking on a cell phone. I know i wouldn't.. and i never did. That's because i'm not stupid. My issue however is with the punishments. And the attempt at regulating peoples freedoms in the name of safety for the public good. It just dosen't work. And i know someone will say what freedom. Start with freedom of speech. It would and could be used as a defense in this situation. It's still unconstitutional to restrict a persons freedom of speech.

Now, i just saw a news show on canadian tv here earlier tonite. And they have it where it is illegal to talk on a cellphone that isn't hands free. Their law isn't working and they are charging $155 ticket for first offence... continued offences they will take away a persons drivers liscense. And in this same show they did a piece on how many people are driving around with no liscenses. Tens of thousands in each of the proviences they mentioned. It would add up to hundreds of thousands nationwide. Reason being.. they have to drive to get to work. Now how is taking away a persons job going to be good for anyone? Is having unliscened and uninsured people driving around gonna be better? Or if it should come to it.. is it worth the cost of imprisioning hundreds of thousands of people for talking on their cell phones? Think about it for a second.

It's that letting the punishment fit the crime part i was talking about. Is it better to destroy the economy in order to head off a possible future accident or is it better to take away a persons cell phone and order them to a drivers safety class? I think so. Why does it always have to be about money for the government? That doesn't stop the people who are too stupid to catch on the first time, or second time, or even third time. If they can afford the fines they don't care, they are taking the risk of getting caught in order to keep connected to their friends while they drive.

And also in this news report.. they gave results of a study. Guess what people.. even the hands free devices cause accidents. It's not the holding of the device that is causing people to be distracted. It's the act of talking and taking your mind off of the road that is. So should we just outlaw talking while driving too?
Feb 2, 2010 1:11 AM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
fishitfun
fishitfunfishitfunMiddle East, Al Asimah Kuwait31 Threads 646 Posts
Heather2212: I think it should be against the law bc alot of ppl have been hurt/killed by ppl texting and driving. I mean, I have done it, yes Im guilty too, but......I still think it isn't safe, and its impossible to look at the words on your phone and at the road at the same time.


It is not allowed here because Its not safe at all that caused a lot of tragic accident and death of many innocent people.
Feb 2, 2010 2:54 AM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
roseofsharon
roseofsharonroseofsharonmanchester, Hampshire, England UK60 Threads 3 Polls 8,699 Posts
Its illegal here in the UK though its not always enforced as it should be.

I don't text whilst driving and I don't agree with it. I have seen people not able to go round roundabouts properly, go up on the kerb, cut across people and some even with children in the car! One fella, during the severe weather, was skidding about uncontrollably on the ice and STILL wouldn't leave his mobile 'phone alone!!!!! very mad

We need to be protected from cretins like that, especially as it would seem that having no more mental agility than that of a single-celled amoeba is not a criteria for driving a car!!
mumbling

laugh
Feb 2, 2010 4:21 AM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
cgedvr
cgedvrcgedvrSo. Cal, California USA40 Threads 2,088 Posts
solitare: Depends upon your perspective; we need to get more people off the roads permanently and helping them get off the roads should be encouraged by letting them text and drive and hopefully crash...anything that would help them do so should not be made 'against the law'...just another hindrance to population control!
Who in thier right mind would ride a motorcycle without a helmet? Drive a car without a seatbelt? Bars and restaurants and smoking laws? If I take the steps to own an establishment that allows MY patrons to smoke and YOU don't like it.....LEAVE...soon they will make a law making it illegal to pass wind....drive a car without insurance....live your life without health ins......manditory health ins.?????...were doomed.......rolling on the floor laughing grin and bear it
Feb 2, 2010 6:46 AM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
dcj22
dcj22dcj22Somewhere, Tennessee USA102 Threads 3 Polls 11,581 Posts
Michael211_2000: Well isn't it also harmful to be trying to eat fast food while driving? How about yelling at your kids in the backseat while driving? What about daydreaming about a tropical island full of naked women while driving? Oops, but I digress....

Point is, there are ALOT of things that are distracting to drivers which can cause them to have traffic accidents... should we outlaw EVERYTHING? If not, why not?

Idea! Why not just outlaw driving itself? If everybody is forced to walk then that should eliminate ALL traffic accidents, right?

This is the same issue as trying to ban guns... guns don't kill people, people kill people, so why not get to the source of the problem and just ban people? Cell phones don't cause traffic accidents, piss-pore drivers who don't pay attention to their driving CAUSE TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS... so make piss-pore drivers illegal, and leave the cell phones for responsible drivers who know when to say "Hey I can't talk right now traffic's getting bad I'll call you back when I'm in a better area" and hang up!

Hello, here's your sign!

- Michael



Keep the sign. I think you need it more than anyone else here. roll eyes
Feb 2, 2010 6:56 AM CST Should it be against the law to text and drive?
AmericanGardener
AmericanGardenerAmericanGardenerchesterfield, Michigan USA64 Posts
I agree with Michael..

And with cgedvr..

cgedvr: Who in thier right mind would ride a motorcycle without a helmet? Drive a car without a seatbelt? Bars and restaurants and smoking laws? If I take the steps to own an establishment that allows MY patrons to smoke and YOU don't like it.....LEAVE...soon they will make a law making it illegal to pass wind....drive a car without insurance....live your life without health ins......manditory health ins.?????...we're doomed....... and bear it


It's a slippery slope when you allow them to start taking away our rights in order to protect us from ourselfs.

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