The Death Penalty (237)
leigh2154: So cute, if I swim the pond, will you meet me on the shore with a warm hud and a hot toddy???
I mean hug damn it...a warm hug###*!!
leigh2154: I mean hug damn it...a warm hug###*!!
Oh....I was just googling hud.
Here's a hug in anticipation anyway.
bodleing: Wrong!!!
I'll give you a clue.
Now this lot I would gladly hang....tossers!!!
I'll give you a clue.
Now this lot I would gladly hang....tossers!!!
PS: Your profile ROCKS!!!!!
gardenhackle: Well, if wasn't an inside joke, then it wouldn't be a "Manchester thing", now, would it? This ain't rocket surgery or brain science or... well, just duh?!
Come back, com back, where ever you are!!
.............is wrong, hard labour is right
This is from answers.com
There is no www. to post, so I will do longhand.
What are the arguments against the death penalty
Despite having disadvantages, the death penalty's advantages are more. Many criminals who committ this crime willingly deserve the receive the same in a form of punishment. It is a good way to punish criminals in a just manner.
I would like to present an argument for the abolishment of the death penalty in the United States. The United States remains in the minority of nations in the world that still uses death as penalty for certain crimes. Many see the penalty as barbaric and against American values. Others see it as a very important tool in fighting violent pre-meditated murder. Two things have once again brought this issue to national debate. One is the release of some highly publicized studies that show a number of innocents had been put to death. The second is the issue of terrorism and the need to punish its perpetrators.
1.Financial costs to taxpayers of capital punishment is several times that of keeping someone in prison for life. Most people don't realize that carrying out one death sentence costs 2-5 times more than keeping that same criminal in prison for the rest of his life. How can this be? It has to do with the endless appeals, additional required procedures, and legal wrangling that drag the process out. It's not unusual for a prisoner to be on death row for 15-20 years. Judges, attorneys, court reporters, clerks, and court facilities all require a substantial investment by the taxpayers. Do we really have the resources to waste?
2.It is barbaric and violates the "cruel and unusual" clause in the Bill of Rights. Whether it's a firing squad, electric chair, gas chamber, lethal injection, or hanging, it's barbaric to allow state-sanctioned murder before a crowd of people. We condemn people like Saddam Hussein and Kim Jong Il when they murder their own people while we continue to do the same (although our procedures for allowing it are obviously more thorough). The 8th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution prevents the use of "cruel and unusual punishment". Many would interpret the death penalty as violating this restriction.
3.The endless appeals and required additional procedures clog our court system. The U.S. court system goes to enormous lengths before allowing a death sentence to be carried out. All the appeals, motions, hearings, briefs, etc. monopolize much of the time of judges, attorneys, and other court employees as well as use up courtrooms & facilities. This is time & space that could be used for other unresolved matters. The court system is tremendously backed up. This would help move things along.
4.We as a society have to move away from the "eye for an eye" revenge mentality if civilization is to advance. The "eye for an eye" mentality will never solve anything. A revenge philosophy inevitably leads to an endless cycle of violence. Why do you think the Israeli-Palestine conflict has been going on for 50+ years? Why do you think gang violence in this country never seems to end? It is important to send a message to society that striking back at your enemy purely for revenge will always make matters worse.
5.It sends the wrong message: why kill people who kill people to show killing is wrong. Yes, we want to make sure there is accountability for crime and an effective deterrent in place; however, the death penalty has a message of "You killed one of us, so we'll kill you". The state is actually using a murder to punish someone who committed a murder. Does that make sense?
There is no www. to post, so I will do longhand.
What are the arguments against the death penalty
Despite having disadvantages, the death penalty's advantages are more. Many criminals who committ this crime willingly deserve the receive the same in a form of punishment. It is a good way to punish criminals in a just manner.
I would like to present an argument for the abolishment of the death penalty in the United States. The United States remains in the minority of nations in the world that still uses death as penalty for certain crimes. Many see the penalty as barbaric and against American values. Others see it as a very important tool in fighting violent pre-meditated murder. Two things have once again brought this issue to national debate. One is the release of some highly publicized studies that show a number of innocents had been put to death. The second is the issue of terrorism and the need to punish its perpetrators.
1.Financial costs to taxpayers of capital punishment is several times that of keeping someone in prison for life. Most people don't realize that carrying out one death sentence costs 2-5 times more than keeping that same criminal in prison for the rest of his life. How can this be? It has to do with the endless appeals, additional required procedures, and legal wrangling that drag the process out. It's not unusual for a prisoner to be on death row for 15-20 years. Judges, attorneys, court reporters, clerks, and court facilities all require a substantial investment by the taxpayers. Do we really have the resources to waste?
2.It is barbaric and violates the "cruel and unusual" clause in the Bill of Rights. Whether it's a firing squad, electric chair, gas chamber, lethal injection, or hanging, it's barbaric to allow state-sanctioned murder before a crowd of people. We condemn people like Saddam Hussein and Kim Jong Il when they murder their own people while we continue to do the same (although our procedures for allowing it are obviously more thorough). The 8th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution prevents the use of "cruel and unusual punishment". Many would interpret the death penalty as violating this restriction.
3.The endless appeals and required additional procedures clog our court system. The U.S. court system goes to enormous lengths before allowing a death sentence to be carried out. All the appeals, motions, hearings, briefs, etc. monopolize much of the time of judges, attorneys, and other court employees as well as use up courtrooms & facilities. This is time & space that could be used for other unresolved matters. The court system is tremendously backed up. This would help move things along.
4.We as a society have to move away from the "eye for an eye" revenge mentality if civilization is to advance. The "eye for an eye" mentality will never solve anything. A revenge philosophy inevitably leads to an endless cycle of violence. Why do you think the Israeli-Palestine conflict has been going on for 50+ years? Why do you think gang violence in this country never seems to end? It is important to send a message to society that striking back at your enemy purely for revenge will always make matters worse.
5.It sends the wrong message: why kill people who kill people to show killing is wrong. Yes, we want to make sure there is accountability for crime and an effective deterrent in place; however, the death penalty has a message of "You killed one of us, so we'll kill you". The state is actually using a murder to punish someone who committed a murder. Does that make sense?
john12196341: i favor the death penalty because it would send a clear message to those who would want to go the route of committing crimes
It doesn't work......
NCC1968: It doesn't work......
NCC...I think there are some defendants who have earned the ultimate punishment society has to offer by committing murder with aggravating circumstances present. Life is sacred, but it cheapens the life of an innocent murder victim to say that society has no right to keep the murderer from ever killing again. Society has not only the right, but the DUTY to act in self defense to protect the innocent..............................Leigh
NCC1968: It doesn't work......
It sends a clear message. Whether or not a murderer elects to hear it is another discussion.
bodleing: I don't think Huntley is leading a cushy life.
Unless you call having boiling water thrown over you and being slashed with a box cutter on numerous occasions a bundle of fun.
Hindley and Brady both tried many times to end their lives, as I said earlier in the thread...let them rot.
Unless you call having boiling water thrown over you and being slashed with a box cutter on numerous occasions a bundle of fun.
Hindley and Brady both tried many times to end their lives, as I said earlier in the thread...let them rot.
Maybe.. but he more than likely had access to TV and Computer, 3 meals a day, a warm cell....etc... and that is cushy compared to a homeless person..
xxfrecklesxx: Maybe.. but he more than likely had access to TV and Computer, 3 meals a day, a warm cell....etc... and that is cushy compared to a homeless person..
Would you suggest that a homeless person be offered his way of life?????
tomcatwarne: Would you suggest that a homeless person be offered his way of life?????
Im sure a homeless person living on the streets in the UK at the moment would be quite happy to take his cell.... seeing as its about -10+ in most areas.. would be a lot warmer and they would get a decent meal..
xxfrecklesxx: Im sure a homeless person living on the streets in the UK at the moment would be quite happy to take his cell.... seeing as its about -10+ in most areas.. would be a lot warmer and they would get a decent meal..
That's probably true, but there's quite a difference between shelter and incasaration.
Does anyone know the Tookie Williams story??
As a young man, Tookie was a very bad boy. He was co-founder of the" Crips" a deadly and powerful LA based street gang responsible for hundreds of murders. Tookie was ultimately convicted of four murders that took place in 1979 and was sentenced to death. The convictions were based on STRONG circumstantial evidence. Tookie professed his innocence until he was put to death in 2005. During his incarceration, Tookie underwent a religious conversion. He began writing books. He was nominated five times for The Nobel Peace Prize and four times for The Nobel Literature Prize. His execution in 2005 brought capital punishment back into public debate. I am pleased Tookie redeemed himself, I am very pleased his sentence was carried out. All the Nobel Peace Nominations in the world won't bring back Tookie's victims.
As a young man, Tookie was a very bad boy. He was co-founder of the" Crips" a deadly and powerful LA based street gang responsible for hundreds of murders. Tookie was ultimately convicted of four murders that took place in 1979 and was sentenced to death. The convictions were based on STRONG circumstantial evidence. Tookie professed his innocence until he was put to death in 2005. During his incarceration, Tookie underwent a religious conversion. He began writing books. He was nominated five times for The Nobel Peace Prize and four times for The Nobel Literature Prize. His execution in 2005 brought capital punishment back into public debate. I am pleased Tookie redeemed himself, I am very pleased his sentence was carried out. All the Nobel Peace Nominations in the world won't bring back Tookie's victims.
leigh2154: Does anyone know the Tookie Williams story??
As a young man, Tookie was a very bad boy. He was co-founder of the" Crips" a deadly and powerful LA based street gang responsible for hundreds of murders. Tookie was ultimately convicted of four murders that took place in 1979 and was sentenced to death. The convictions were based on STRONG circumstantial evidence. Tookie professed his innocence until he was put to death in 2005. During his incarceration, Tookie underwent a religious conversion. He began writing books. He was nominated five times for The Nobel Peace Prize and four times for The Nobel Literature Prize. His execution in 2005 brought capital punishment back into public debate. I am pleased Tookie redeemed himself, I am very pleased his sentence was carried out. All the Nobel Peace Nominations in the world won't bring back Tookie's victims.
I liked your post. There have been several news stories regarding criminals redeeming themselves and asking for leniency because they are now a "better person". Judges take it all in with a very dim view. Years ago a young lady who had joined the Manson gang found herself extremely reluctantly involved with the Tate La Bianca murders. Friends, relatives pleaded with authorities to take into consideration her age, vulnerability, the fact that she wanted "out" of the group and felt forced to stay, etc... Judge gave her the same prison sentence as the rest. I used to wonder if that wasn't a bit unfair--after much thought about it over the years I came to the belief that the judge was right in his decision, however harsh it may have seemed. If you go to bed with dogs you wake up with fleas. Stay outa trouble--JMOAs a young man, Tookie was a very bad boy. He was co-founder of the" Crips" a deadly and powerful LA based street gang responsible for hundreds of murders. Tookie was ultimately convicted of four murders that took place in 1979 and was sentenced to death. The convictions were based on STRONG circumstantial evidence. Tookie professed his innocence until he was put to death in 2005. During his incarceration, Tookie underwent a religious conversion. He began writing books. He was nominated five times for The Nobel Peace Prize and four times for The Nobel Literature Prize. His execution in 2005 brought capital punishment back into public debate. I am pleased Tookie redeemed himself, I am very pleased his sentence was carried out. All the Nobel Peace Nominations in the world won't bring back Tookie's victims.
ocean78382: John even though I disagree with you -see my post- you make intelligent arguments. That's rare on here.
I've just had a quick look at your post history.
Your constant condemnation of members on here makes me wonder why you stay.
bodleing: I've just had a quick look at your post history.
Your constant condemnation of members on here makes me wonder why you stay.
Your constant condemnation of members on here makes me wonder why you stay.
Oh I don´t like it here much but I´ve been around on and off for 5 years.
bodleing: I've just had a quick look at your post history.
Your constant condemnation of members on here makes me wonder why you stay.
Your constant condemnation of members on here makes me wonder why you stay.
Hey "Dog"..you too huh..??!!
I think the answer may well be for the very SAME
reason he is single...
a Mr. "KNOW it ALL"..
and the rest of the world is too stupid to realize it..
After listening to his rants I believe
I may have been married to his sister..
she too was a Ms Perfect and a know it all..
anyways..
just MY opinion..
yours may vary...
and should it... tell someone whom may give a crap..
---SoldierByte--- 
venusenvy: For me its the issue of hypocrisy...Its against the law to kill someone so if you do we will kill you
Ocean78382...Ref: Intelligence on site rare
I know why you stay....................................................no other options!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know why you stay....................................................no other options!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
leigh2154: Could be a Manchester thing.................and it's rocket science and brain surgery. Did I miss your point again or were you making a joke????????
Why do you think I included both? Interchanging the words wouldn't have worked so well using just one, would it?
Yes ocean78382
I did read your post. I agree with you, believe it or not.
What I'm trying to do on this thread is to bring out all sides of the death penalty argument so people can talk back and forth and decide for themselves.
There was also a great post earlier that said that the death penalty argument will never be settled.
This would be a great thread to send to our Judges and Lawyers, because they are the ones that ultimately decide who lives or dies.
John
I did read your post. I agree with you, believe it or not.
What I'm trying to do on this thread is to bring out all sides of the death penalty argument so people can talk back and forth and decide for themselves.
There was also a great post earlier that said that the death penalty argument will never be settled.
This would be a great thread to send to our Judges and Lawyers, because they are the ones that ultimately decide who lives or dies.
John
gardenhackle: Why do you think I included both? Interchanging the words wouldn't have worked so well using just one, would it?
Hum
.........Let me think a minute, Lets see, if you're going to interchange something, would that be enter and then change? No wait, wait, I got it!! Change and then enter.....Shoot, that's not right either, is it GH? I do see where you're coming from though, you do need at least two things if your are going to interchange!!!!!!!!!!!! My G..!!! I think I've got it!
NCC1968: I know it well and it stengthens my idea that a life of labor and a chance to redeem themselves INSIDE of prison is the better way.
And thats a good thing!!! Any strong conviction is good, as is diversity. Thats what makes life so interesting!! Thanks for comment
I was jailed for (3) days once in 1994 because I had (4) beers at a Tavern. I wasn't even driving, I was walking.
Imagine what the innocent go through when incarcerated for years?
I felt this way for (3) days.
This song played over and over in my mind. There was nothing else to do.
Simon and Garfunkel
the sound of silence lyrics
Imagine what the innocent go through when incarcerated for years?
I felt this way for (3) days.
This song played over and over in my mind. There was nothing else to do.
Simon and Garfunkel
the sound of silence lyrics
Hi John!
Great song, Mrs. Robinson where are you when we need you? On a more serious note, I hope this forum continues, very hot topic. Think you are right, "Out of the mouth's of babes", there lies the answer. One never knows, does one?
Being "pro" death was not an easy choice. I back my opinion on many things, some are personal. However, in the spirit of fair play, I will stick with common sense....... backed by stats.
People fear NOTHING more than death. Life in prison is less "feared", therefore less of a deterrent.
Murderers clearly prefer life to death....stats again, see plea downs in capital cases. We must execute murderers even if it is only remotely possible their execution will protect citizens from future murder.
As for cost, most responders on this forum are citing front end expense. Stats show majority of murderers fall into young (20 to 30) male group. With a life expectancy of 50 years, the expense of housing a murderer with a life sentence is nearly triple that of execution ( and I still don't understand why that expense to so high).
Maybe America should abolish the death sentence for a decade, then run new numbers. I think the murder rate would sky rocket.
I hope this response stimulates further discussion. Again, great forum......Leigh
Great song, Mrs. Robinson where are you when we need you? On a more serious note, I hope this forum continues, very hot topic. Think you are right, "Out of the mouth's of babes", there lies the answer. One never knows, does one?
Being "pro" death was not an easy choice. I back my opinion on many things, some are personal. However, in the spirit of fair play, I will stick with common sense....... backed by stats.
People fear NOTHING more than death. Life in prison is less "feared", therefore less of a deterrent.
Murderers clearly prefer life to death....stats again, see plea downs in capital cases. We must execute murderers even if it is only remotely possible their execution will protect citizens from future murder.
As for cost, most responders on this forum are citing front end expense. Stats show majority of murderers fall into young (20 to 30) male group. With a life expectancy of 50 years, the expense of housing a murderer with a life sentence is nearly triple that of execution ( and I still don't understand why that expense to so high).
Maybe America should abolish the death sentence for a decade, then run new numbers. I think the murder rate would sky rocket.
I hope this response stimulates further discussion. Again, great forum......Leigh
This is a very good and wise post leigh2154
You are correct. Most people that commit Capital crimes are in their 20’s and 30’s. They have not grown up yet. There are many instances though where the older and retired go bonkers.
Near where I live in Ohio, an aged man could not keep his temper. He was articulate about his lawn. When school children walked home, they would walk across his lawn for a shortcut. He decided one day to shoot and kill one of them.
Because of his age, he is just in Prison. This was decided by a Judge, no death penalty.
You are correct. Most people that commit Capital crimes are in their 20’s and 30’s. They have not grown up yet. There are many instances though where the older and retired go bonkers.
Near where I live in Ohio, an aged man could not keep his temper. He was articulate about his lawn. When school children walked home, they would walk across his lawn for a shortcut. He decided one day to shoot and kill one of them.
Because of his age, he is just in Prison. This was decided by a Judge, no death penalty.
RWWizard: Would you think differently if the victim was a close member of your family?
I don't want to comment on the question itself, but often wonder about your question when a "sentence" has been passed down...
I was put in this position once (not the death penalty), but at the end of the day when I realized that nothing was going to bring my child back....did destroying other lives really make sense...Its not just the life of the "perpetrator" that is affected here...its their extended family too...and THEY did not commit a crime..
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Could be a Manchester thing.................and it's rocket science and brain surgery. Did I miss your point again or were you making a joke????????