Do you think so, I disagree - they still believe everything their governments and the calculating media tell them or perhaps you havent read what is said to be the truth of the Pearl Harbour debacle? They knew the attack was imminent but with the majority of people against going to war they had to have some catastrophe to change their minds so they allowed the attack to happen - this is all documented, if you have trouble finding it pm me
History will indeed tell the story but the American propaganda machine will make sure its twisted beyond recognition before its official release - just like they did with the Pearl Harbour story - it stands to reason the worlds biggest arms dealer has an interest in keeping people at each others throats and its all because of the profit machine
Much of Aegis' recent publicity has been to highlight the growing threat to maritime transportation from piracy and Islamic terrorists. At the end of 2003, Aegis released a report available only to clients, which looks at the rise in terrorism and how it will affect international business. The conclusion: it's on the rise, and you need us to protect you. Lately, Corporate Watch (UK) has learned, Aegis has been actively advertising itself to companies seeking to do business in Iraq. In a generic letter to corporate executives, Ageis' Chief Operating Officer, M. A. Bullough, flaunts his company's "close links with one of the major US security organisations which has been operational in Iraq from the outset". Aegis, he says, can offer "considerable assistance in helping you assess the viability of any given contract, as apart from the reputational duty of care to your employees, the cost implications of security in an environment such as Iraq are material in every sense of the word". Actively pursuing more contracts, Aegis are listed as attending an "Iraq procurement conference" in Jordan this November.
American and British soldiers might be on their way out, but now an even more unaccountable gang of mercenaries will be holding the major fire-power in Iraq, to the greater glory of their own paychecks. Increasing in size and coordination, there is no telling what this private army will mean for ordinary Iraqis, but one thing is clear: the occupation of Iraq won't be over on June 30th.
This is an old one - ill just go and find some up to date stuff but before I go give a thought to the civilian contractors who are still now making fortunes from rebuilding places that are continually bombed - Il bet my bum that they are related to the bombers in some way.........
Thje whole thing is corrupt and America and UK, as the worlds biggest arms dealers have a vestid interest in keeping it all going - they dont give a toss about your sons and daughters and thats why they dont want you knowing any of this stuff - none of it is to do with battle security is it?
Aegis was started by Lieutenant Colonel Tim Spicer, a former officer with the Scots Guard, an elite regiment of the British military. Spicer claims he is in the business of keeping the peace, rather than in out-sourcing war, reflecting on his student days when he had long hair, wore a shirt made out of the North Vietnamese flag, and joined demonstrations against the war in Vietnam. But extensive research by Corpwatch (USA) highlights the fact that Spicer has been investigated for illegally smuggling arms and planning military offensives to support mining, oil, and gas operations around the world. In 1998, Spicer's previous company, Sandline International, was contracted to sell 30 tons of arms to the forces of Ahmad Tejan Kabbah, the former leader of Sierra Leone, in contravention of a UN arms embargo but in apparent cooperation with Craig Murray, a junior staffer at the British Foreign Office. Spicer maintains that he was unaware that the scheme was illegal and the government eventually agreed to draw up new rules on arms trafficking and the conduct of private military companies in Britain. A year earlier, Sandline had received $36 million from the government of Papua-New Guinea to invade the island of Bougainville, to rescue a copper mine which had been shut down by a local rebellion. But the operation was cancelled, and Spicer says he found himself staring into the barrel of a gun pulled by a Papua-New Guinean soldier, part of an angry group who wanted to know why the government was spending so much money on foreign "mercenaries".
Spicer officially quit working for Sandline and its associated companies in September 2000 but the company continued to operate until April 16 this year. The reason for closure, as reported on the company's website, was "the general lack of governmental support for Private Military Companies willing to help end armed conflicts in places like Africa, in the absence of effective international intervention". Seven weeks later Spicer re-appeared in the public eye, with the contract in Iraq, and some of the very same employees and consultants who worked for Sandline.
Its stuff like the report below that they dont want getting out folks - national security me effin left.... foot!
Iraq: A Mercenary's Paradise
Armed to the teeth and controlled by no-one, private security firms are on the rampage in Iraq. Mercenaries who have been involved with atrocities in Sierra Leon, Chile, Papua New Guinea and South Africa protect VIPs and installations. Now, the US government has awarded a UK firm, Aegis, with a generous contract to coordinate them all into one big army.
Iraq: the new Wild West, where fortunes are made as easily as lives are lost. While the country's resources and infrastructure are being carved-up by large multinationals, private security firms are stepping in to protect their operations as well as the activities of foreign governments. Security corporations now provide thousands of bodyguards for corporate executives and prominent Americans in the civilian command, as well as for the officials of other foreign powers and the temporary governing council that will end its term of office on June 30. They supply risk-assessment reports to companies seeking to exploit the new Iraqi market, and are responsible for key positions and training in the security apparatus around oil fields and other installations. They have their own weapons, ammunition and intelligence gatherers. They even make agreements with heads of local families to supply defence and information.
There are no accurate figures on the number of individuals employed by private security agencies in Iraq, but it is estimated at tens of thousands, mainly foreign nationals and members of Iraqi minority groups. As Iraqi guerillas continue their attacks on installations and administrative centres, contractors must take into consideration that security will increase the cost of projects by about 20 percent. This rate includes not only the cost of salaries for security personnel, but their life insurance as well. A rough calculation shows that of the $70-80 billion cost of rebuilding Iraq, $51 billion will line the pockets of security firms. Also, despite the much-touted "handover" of Iraq to an interim government, it has become clear that the mercenaries are there to stay. American firms that have won contracts to develop infrastructure in Iraq will continue to operate, and they are unlikely to replace their private security personnel with Iraqi soldiers, whose level of skills and loyalty is uncertain. The new Iraqi army and police force are not only small and under-paid, but also under constant attack by guerillas who have killed over 850 policemen since April - making recruitment an exceedingly difficult task.
So, because of their balls up, the guy is in solitary in just his underpants deprived of even his eye glasses and you are all beying for even more torture for him - no doubt you all go to church on sundays too...............
Chiarelli said then that it would be fair "to say that, because of everything that we're doing, we have not paid the attention we need to on high-risk behavior."
Investigators looking at Manning's case found that while the military had followed procedures in giving Manning a security clearance, more questions should have been asked about whether he should retain it once he displayed disciplinary problems.
A central Defense Department agency, Defense Security Service, issues the clearances based on the soldier's job, need-to-know government secrets and a background check. Higher-level clearances also may include interviews by DSS. The length of time the clearance is in effect depends on the job and the level of access given.
Pfc. Bradley Manning's direct supervisor warned that Manning had thrown chairs at colleagues and shouted at higher ranking soldiers in the year he was stationed at Fort Drum, N.Y., and advised that Manning shouldn't be sent to Iraq, where his job would entail accessing classified documents through the Defense Department's computer system.
But superior officers decided to ignore the advice because the unit was short of intelligence analysts and needed Manning's skills, two military officials familiar with the investigation told McClatchy.
The commanders hoped they could address Manning's discipline problems in Iraq, the officials told McClatchy, but then never properly monitored him. The result was a "comedy of errors" as one commander after another assumed someone else was addressing Manning's problems, one official said. Both officials spoke anonymously because they weren't authorized to discuss the
At one point, Manning, who joined the Army in 2007, saw a mental health specialist, officials said, but it's unclear what came of that meeting. Iraq was his only deployment. He was deployed to Iraq in 2009 and served there until he was arrested in May, shortly after the first WikiLeaks posting in April.
Army Lt. Gen. Robert Caslen Jr., the commander of the Army General Command and Staff College at Fort Leavenworth, Kan., has led the wide-ranging investigation. Investigators made several trips to Fort Drum, where Manning was stationed before deploying to Iraq, and conducted scores of interviews. The findings could become part of the evidence presented at Manning's court martial.
Manning allegedly downloaded the documents while pretending to listen to music by Lady Gaga on headphones, a cover story, investigators say, to explain the sound of the computer's CD drive whirring as he copied the files.
Some human rights groups charge that Manning is being mistreated, with no ability to exercise or receive visitors and that at times, he's deprived of his eyeglasses. The Defense Department has denied these claims and another that Manning was improperly placed on suicide watch for two days as punishment. The Pentagon this week named a new detention commander but insisted the change was long planned.
Manning, 23, isn't cooperating with investigators, and prosecutors still don't know how the hundreds of thousands of documents and files he allegedly downloaded reached WikiLeaks, which has posted them on its website in four separate bursts that began in April with the release of a video showing an Army helicopter firing on civilians in Baghdad, killing two Reuters news agency employees.
The website also released tens of thousands of documents related to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan before the current, ongoing publication of hundreds of thousands of State Department cables. That release began on Nov. 28.
It is not good to operate in a moral vacuum, oblivious to the reality that there exists a hierarchy of values and that circumstances often determine the morality of a course of action.
How does a written promise to keep secret everything with a classified stamp on it square with one’s moral responsibility to stop a war based on lies? Does stopping a misbegotten war not supersede a secrecy promise? Ethicists use the words “supervening value” for this; the concept makes sense to me.
And is there yet another value? As an Army officer, I had taken a solemn oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies, foreign and domestic. It was also drummed into us that officers do not lie. (Pardon, if that has come to seem quaint or obsolete.)
How did the lying by the Army command in Saigon square with all that? Were/are generals exempt? Should we not call them out when we learn of deliberate deception that subverts the democratic process? Can the American people make good, informed decisions if they are lied to?
Would I have helped stop unnecessary killing by giving the New York Times the not-really-secret, SECRET/EYES ONLY cable from Gen. Abrams? We’ll never know, will we? And I live with that.
I could not take the easy way out, saying Let Sam Do It. Because I knew he wouldn’t. Sam chose to go through the established grievance channels and got the royal run-around, even after the Communist countrywide offensive at Tet in January-February 1968 proved beyond any doubt that his count of Communist forces was correct.
When the Tet offensive began, as a way of keeping his sanity, Adams drafted a caustic cable to Saigon saying, “It is something of an anomaly to be taking so much punishment from Communist soldiers whose existence is not officially acknowledged.” But he did not think the situation at all funny.
Dan Ellsberg Steps In
Sam kept playing by the rules, but it happened that – unbeknown to Sam – Dan Ellsberg gave Sam’s figures on enemy strength to the New York Times, which published them on March 19, 1968. Dan had learned that President Lyndon Johnson was about to bow to Pentagon pressure to widen the war into Cambodia, Laos, and up to the Chinese border – perhaps even beyond.
Later, it became clear that his timely leak – together with another unauthorized disclosure to the Times that the Pentagon had requested 206,000 more troops – prevented a wider war. On March 25, Johnson complained to a small gathering, “The leaks to the New York Times hurt us. … We have no support for the war. … I would have given Westy the 206,000 men.”
Ellsberg later copied the Pentagon Papers – the 7,000-page top-secret history of U.S. decision-making on Vietnam from 1945 to 1967 – and, in 1971, he gave copies to the New York Times, Washington Post, and other news organizations. In the years since, Ellsberg has had difficulty shaking off the thought that, had he released the Pentagon Papers sooner, the war might have ended years earlier with untold lives saved. Ellsberg has put it this way:
“Like so many others, I put personal loyalty to the president above all else – above loyalty to the Constitution and above obligation to the law, to truth, to Americans, and to humankind. I was wrong.”
I have an all-too-distinct memory of a long silence over coffee, as each of us ruminated on what might be done. I recall thinking to myself; someone should take the Abrams cable down to the New York Times (at the time an independent-minded newspaper).
Clearly, the only reason for the cable’s SECRET/EYES ONLY classification was to hide deliberate deception by our most senior generals regarding “progress” in the war and deprive the American people of the chance to know the truth.
Going to the press was, of course, antithetical to the culture of secrecy in which we had been trained. Besides, you would likely be caught at your next polygraph examination. Better not to stick your neck out.
I pondered all this in the days after that lunch with Adams. And I succeeded in coming up with a slew of reasons why I ought to keep silent: a mortgage; a plum overseas assignment for which I was in the final stages of language training; and, not least, the analytic work – important, exciting work on which Sam and I thrived.
Better to keep quiet for now, grow in gravitas, and live on to slay other dragons. Right?
One can, I suppose, always find excuses for not sticking one’s neck out. The neck, after all, is a convenient connection between head and torso, albeit the “neck” that was the focus of my concern was a figurative one, suggesting possible loss of career, money, and status – not the literal “necks” of both Americans and Vietnamese that were on the line daily in the war.
But if there is nothing for which you would risk your career “neck” – like, say, saving the lives of soldiers and civilians in a war zone – your “neck” has become your idol, and your career is not worthy of that. I now regret giving such worship to my own neck.
Not only did I fail the neck test. I had not thought things through very rigorously from a moral point of view.
Promises to Keep?
As a condition of employment, I had signed a promise not to divulge classified information so as not to endanger sources, methods, or national security. Promises are important, and one should not lightly violate them. Plus, there are legitimate reasons for protecting some secrets. But were any of those legitimate concerns the real reasons why Abrams’s cable was stamped SECRET/EYES ONLY? I think not.
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Can WikiLeaks Help Save Lives? by Ray McGovern, August 16, 2010 Email This | Print This | Share This | Antiwar Forum
If independent-minded Web sites, like WikiLeaks or, say, ConsortiumNews.com, existed 43 years ago, I might have risen to the occasion and helped save the lives of some 25,000 U.S. soldiers, and a million Vietnamese, by exposing the lies contained in just one SECRET/EYES ONLY cable from Saigon.
I need to speak out now because I have been sickened watching the herculean effort by Official Washington and our Fawning Corporate Media (FCM) to divert attention from the violence and deceit in Afghanistan, reflected in thousands of U.S. Army documents, by shooting the messenger(s) – WikiLeaks and Pvt. Bradley Manning.
After all the indiscriminate death and destruction from nearly nine years of war, the hypocrisy is all too transparent when WikiLeaks and suspected leaker Manning are accused of risking lives by exposing too much truth.
Besides, I still have a guilty conscience for what I chose NOT to do in exposing facts about the Vietnam War that might have saved lives. The sad-but-true story recounted below is offered in the hope that those in similar circumstances today might show more courage than I was able to muster in 1967, and take full advantage of the incredible advancements in technology since then.
Many of my Junior Officer Trainee Program colleagues at CIA came to Washington in the early Sixties inspired by President John Kennedy’s Inaugural speech in which he asked us to ask ourselves what we might do for our country. (Sounds corny nowadays, I suppose; I guess I’ll just have to ask you to take it on faith. It may not have been Camelot exactly, but the spirit and ambience were fresh – and good.)
Among those who found Kennedy’s summons compelling was Sam Adams, a young former naval officer out of Harvard College. After the Navy, Sam tried Harvard Law School, but found it boring. Instead, he decided to go to Washington, join the CIA as an officer trainee, and do something more adventurous. He got more than his share of adventure.
Sam was one of the brightest and most dedicated among us. Quite early in his career, he acquired a very lively and important account – that of assessing Vietnamese Communist strength early in the war. He took to the task with uncommon resourcefulness and quickly proved himself the consummate analyst.
Relying largely on captured documents, buttressed by reporting from all manner of other sources, Adams concluded in 1967 that there were twice as many Communists (about 600,000) under arms in South Vietnam as the U.S. military there would admit.
What even when he discvovered he'd had made the oath mistakenly to a totally corrupt regime - hahaha, tell me, did you ever make an oath and then go for divorce.......... America is a corrupt bully, thats how the rest of the world sees your governement - individual people are fine but what kind of society pees on prisoners and makes jokes about waterboardin - nahhhh - Im gonna have my say on this one and you may as well save your breath on putting mt down, its water off a ducks back and nothing more that I expected anyway - the only reason there is such a fuss about Manning is cos the powers that be dont want the public knowing the truth - its bee this way for a long tome with america - I wonder if you all ever hear about the 'friendly fire' deaths that your army is so well known for or the real story of pearl hapobour - nah - give it your besy but Ill just be ignoring - theres only a couple of pages left and Im not going to waste my time arguing with any of you shouter downers..............
They are just totally put out cos a/ they dont want the public knowing any of this stuff and b/ if they arrest further up the line even more dirty washing will be exposed - they may have arrested further up the line for all i know by now but it was worth asking the question anyway - no doubt the usual suspects will be here any time now trying to shout me down and ridicule me - let em try - i aint shutting up
Apparently it was an "astonishing security lapse" which allowed Manning to copy these documents so whats happened to the people who allowed this "astonishing" lapse to happen - forgive me for not readin the whole thread....
Does it say that in the bible Ped, if not then sorry but there are several other expalnations out there - ask Dawkins, he's a biologist
You lot who are claiming nature as god go too far - you have the book of epic flaws for your own but the rest is out of your territory - gogdidit is so last century.........
Thats not quite how the as yet unresolved Arien controversy describes it from 1725 years ago see it - because of this controversy there is factionalisation in the christian church to the tune of 30,000 and more denominations yet you presume to placate somebody with a mere two or three paragraphs - this is either great folly or corrupted ego..
I was having this discussion the other day, its like after a mum has a baby, the pain of birth soon gets forgotten as its overtaken by the wonder and beauty, same with the baby, the trauma of birth and what went before go away - we dont exist with the actuality, we only have memory - the same with grief, that too gets easier to bear with time
Rohann, of all people Im positive you didnt mean to be hurtful but nevertheless, you were.
"It’s time to dispel one of this nation’s greatest myths . . . There are indeed many atheists in foxholes.
The Freedom From Religion Foundation erected its monument to “Atheists in Foxholes” in 1999 at Lake Hypatia, Alabama.
The monument is dedicated to the many members of the military who were “atheists in foxholes,” as well as to all freethinkers (atheists, agnostics, and skeptics of any persuasion) who serve in the U.S. military.
The monument reads:
“In memory of ATHEISTS IN FOXHOLES and the countless FREETHINKERS who have served this country with honor and distinction.
“Presented by the national Freedom From Religion Foundation with hope that in the future humankind may learn to avoid all war.”
Foundation president Anne Nicol Gaylor originally proposed an “Atheists in Foxholes" monument to replace a cross on public property in San Diego.
The Foundation’s formal bid was rejected in favor of religious bidders.
Pat Cleveland invited the Foundation to erect its own monument on land donated by the Cleveland family in rural Alabama, as part of a freethought park. Pat is president of the Alabama Freethought Association, a Foundation chapter which also hosts the national Foundation’s southern Freethought Hall and auditorium near Talladega. The monument was formally dedicated at the chapter’s annual July 4th gala in 1999. To commemorate this special occasion, Alice Shiver read the following poem which she wrote:
Atheists in Foxholes
Atheists in foxholes, some say they are myths, Creations of the mind who just don’t exist.
Yet, they answered the call to defend, with great pride. With reason their watchword, they bled and they died.
They took Saratoga from the British crown, Secured America’s freedom at the Battle of Yorktown.
From Sumter to Appomattox, fields flowed with their blood. When the cannons grew silent, the flag proudly stood.
From the Marne to the Argonne, in trenches and tanks, They defeated the Germans -- the whole world gave thanks.
They were bombed at Pearl Harbor, fought on to Berlin. Many freethinking women served along with the men.
Still war keeps erupting -- Iraq, Bosnia, and Kosovo. Where is the peace that eludes people so?
It is broken by tyrants who bear crosses and creeds, That overshadow reason with hate and cruel deeds.
So atheists prevail until your work is complete. Mothers mourn, children cry, and bigots plan your defeat.
By air, land, and sea, you answer freedom’s call. Without god or faith, you seek liberty for all.
Click here to see dedication photographs.
“The membership of the Freedom From Religion Foundation includes many veterans from World War II, Korea and Vietnam," Gaylor noted, "and we also have members who put their lives on the line as police officers and firefighters.”
Nonreligious veterans are encouraged to visit this impressive monument recognizing their commitment and valor, in its pretty woodland setting.
It wouldnt surprise me, I agree with you, animals are really much more clever than people give them credit for - Ive tied balls of bird food on the washing line this winter to stop the squirrels but I bet theyre there in the corner of the garden trying to figure out how to get to it
trish123 Forum Posts (13,724)
RE: torture?
Do you think so, I disagree - they still believe everything their governments and the calculating media tell them or perhaps you havent read what is said to be the truth of the Pearl Harbour debacle? They knew the attack was imminent but with the majority of people against going to war they had to have some catastrophe to change their minds so they allowed the attack to happen - this is all documented, if you have trouble finding it pm me