Middle East Peace Plan ( Locked) (490)

Jun 14, 2010 9:09 PM CST Middle East Peace Plan
Albertaghost
AlbertaghostAlbertaghostCultural Wasteland, Alberta Canada76 Threads 5 Polls 5,914 Posts
SilverBirch: Sure, your solution is for the Palistinians to just "go away".

Thats a fair and just solution.??? To the greedy.

Would you cut and run?


Feel free to join in. Providing you can stop the cycle of blame.

Proposed Solution.



In response to: I think it's possible. It would require a lot of work and, one hell of a lot of patience however, with huge amounts of compromises, I believe it is quite doable.

First step is to have a third party act as inter mediator and come up with the plan, present it to two stable governments and hash out the details to the satisfaction of both. This is probably the most difficult phase as there really is no stable government on the Palestinian side and, like Israeli factions, many in Palestine do not wish peace as they garner profit from the conflict. This part I leave to the winds to figure out in order to move on.

Second part is the explanation of the plan. Assuming two governments have agreed, comittees are formed on each side for the purpose of nothing but executing this endeavor. The problems and rewards are;

Problems;
- Israel holds the cards so, their security is their primary concdern. If they give up land, they lose security unless trust is established.
- Palestine holds no cards so, they wish land. Given their history of attacking Israel, they cannot have that land en masse as this would seriously threaten the existence of Israel should Palestine attack from those lands,even with captured or homemade weapons.

So, trust has to be built over time but, Palestinians are disillusioned, desperate, pissed off and left to resignation that nothing will ever happen and, without physical improvements will, as usual, revert back to terrorist tactics once they feel momentum has stalled.

So, to sum up this part, Israel cannot give up land right away and Palestine cannot occupy that land right away yet, trust has to be built but, improvements have to be shown to the people. Their life has to improve immediately.

UN/Israeli and Palestinian Surveyors take the '67 borders and mark them out in detail. Real estate agents come in and assign each piece of Palestinian land's value with,and without a building on it.

The PA then charges fair rent to the occupied land and Israel collects it. The PA can either distribute the monies to the people or, save it. In any case, if an Israeli wishes to buy the land itself, the price is 30% more than the market in order to discourage the purchase.
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Jun 14, 2010 9:09 PM CST Middle East Peace Plan
Albertaghost
AlbertaghostAlbertaghostCultural Wasteland, Alberta Canada76 Threads 5 Polls 5,914 Posts
In response to: Any unoccupied land can be either sold at market or, retained over time as future land for the country of Palestine. The advantage is, with this method, Palestinians get results now and, Israel gets results now and, Palestinians have the opportunity to buy the homes which are left by the settlers from the monies gained from the rent of other lands.

With the flow of cash coming in, the elected government of Palestine enjoys popularity and thus, will enforce the security arrangements of the agreement. This includes;

- no hostile actions
- turnover of all weapons and destructive devices
- arrest and public trials of any illegal actions
- banning of any paramilitary organizations

Any non compliance of these results in a penalty of a percentage of the rents which would be payable to the mediator who can assign the monies to whomever at a set date years in the future.

As time goes on, the PA will wish to take these monies and buy homes or occupy land that is unoccupied. As per the agreement, if a certain amount of time has passed with no hostilities then some land may be occupied providing houses are bought, rented (a reversal of the land rental as the money is paid now to Israelis) or, built to code. In this way, there will be no sudden influx of millions of Palestinians as there simply isn't enough money and time has to take it's course.
Once Palestinians begin to move into Israel, they have to be observed and, protected. With this in mind, a security force composed of three parts will be formed. One part Israeli, Palestinian and UN. All are schooled with the same instructions, standards and SOPs and all will be represented in that ratio when called on or simply on patrol.

At this point, there may be sabotage by fringe elements or, even terror attacks with the disruption of the plan in mind so, a common penalty for those who do such things is applied. As well, if for example a home in Palestine is destroyed, the money to rebuild it is taken from the other side however, only half will be provided to the Palestinians for that purpose with the remainder held by the mediator. In this way, nobody gets profit or political points from vandalism or destruction.

So I suppose that covers the first couple of years or maybe even five or so. Some other conditions or considerations are;

- a heavy love campaign to pull the bone out of every-bodies head is placed on all media. Sort of like the anti smoking campaign designed to promote peace, love and crap. In other words, no Jew hating mice cartoons for kids. Promotion of the benefits of peace over and over and over .......

- Palestinians have no military, they do have a large consulate in Jerusalem along with homes for the staff sort of like the 'American Village' though. Later, maybe after ten or fifteen years they can claim Jerusalem as their capitol and assemble there. Any foreign dignitaries will be accompanied by the troika of security (PA/Is/UN) until otherwise changed.

- the country of Palestine still does not exist. Rather it is considered a province of Israel and, it's police are the troika, it's government is either the consulate or Gaza/West Bank however, they are moving back - in peace.

- as trust develops the wall loses it's purpose and, the land on either side is made available for development/rent/purchase or otherwise financial use. At this point, a decision has to be made whether to become their own country and duplicate services or, to just join Israel as a distinct society.

Myself, I believe it would be one and the same country as both their futures would be intertwined. The time line would be as I see it, if possible, 25 years or so.
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Jun 14, 2010 9:18 PM CST Middle East Peace Plan
SilverBirch
SilverBirchSilverBirchSomewhere, Virginia USA17 Threads 4 Polls 3,158 Posts
Albertaghost: Feel free to join in. Providing you can stop the cycle of blame.

Proposed Solution.

thumbs up
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Jun 14, 2010 9:29 PM CST Middle East Peace Plan
SilverBirch
SilverBirchSilverBirchSomewhere, Virginia USA17 Threads 4 Polls 3,158 Posts
what about soveriegnty
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Jun 14, 2010 9:29 PM CST Middle East Peace Plan
SilverBirch
SilverBirchSilverBirchSomewhere, Virginia USA17 Threads 4 Polls 3,158 Posts
a capital?
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Jun 14, 2010 9:30 PM CST Middle East Peace Plan
SilverBirch
SilverBirchSilverBirchSomewhere, Virginia USA17 Threads 4 Polls 3,158 Posts
reparations?
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Jun 14, 2010 9:32 PM CST Middle East Peace Plan
SilverBirch
SilverBirchSilverBirchSomewhere, Virginia USA17 Threads 4 Polls 3,158 Posts
contiguity
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Jun 14, 2010 9:34 PM CST Middle East Peace Plan
SilverBirch
SilverBirchSilverBirchSomewhere, Virginia USA17 Threads 4 Polls 3,158 Posts
Sorry,
Sound palatable! Wouldn't it be grand if world arena would sit in on this on?
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Jun 14, 2010 9:39 PM CST Middle East Peace Plan
SilverBirch
SilverBirchSilverBirchSomewhere, Virginia USA17 Threads 4 Polls 3,158 Posts
There is no question that this proposal would serve as a good starting point. And my initial challenges were meant to just "get those facts out there!" But at this point I can't see why any two groups of rational people wouldn't go along with this idea as a starting point.
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Jun 14, 2010 9:58 PM CST Middle East Peace Plan
Abram
AbramAbramGoshen, Ohio USA9 Threads 2,077 Posts
The only proposal that would satisfy the property, and possession needs of either Israel, or the Palestinians, would be for the supporters of the people to act for their interest. Israel supporters have already acted of Israels needs, and Israel even gave some of their possessions to the Palestinians. Kinda odd how Iran gives their Palestinian friends, Hamas, but never invites them home for dinner, or a place at their table. The sandbox is pretty good size in Iran, and they are some very good builders. They can tunnel, and hide a complete nuclear site, but they don't have enough sand for their dear friends. They give them rockets to play with, but let them stand out in the cold waiting for retaliation. What a good friend!
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Jun 14, 2010 10:27 PM CST Middle East Peace Plan
Albertaghost
AlbertaghostAlbertaghostCultural Wasteland, Alberta Canada76 Threads 5 Polls 5,914 Posts
SilverBirch: Sorry,
Sound palatable! Wouldn't it be grand if world arena would sit in on this on?


Got that figured, built the site and just chip away at it trying to figure ways around each small individual block so that somehow it might work.


SilverBirch: what about soveriegnty


Each to their own. If customs and laws differ then it is going to cost a lot of money to enforce borders so, keeping it in line with the financial aspect of the plan, if one side wishes something harmful or distasteful to the then they will have to share in the solution for the differences. It would be a way of forcing them to cooperate in paying their bills together.

SilverBirch: a capital?


Gaza, Hebron if they wish for their provinces and jerusalem for all once the trust is achieved. The latter would be put into place under Israeli security needs with a Palestinian consulate and later compound and later it's own small city such as the Vatican and then later still it's own claim to the capital in the form of a quarter.

SilverBirch: reparations?


none.
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Jun 14, 2010 10:34 PM CST Middle East Peace Plan
Albertaghost
AlbertaghostAlbertaghostCultural Wasteland, Alberta Canada76 Threads 5 Polls 5,914 Posts
Abram: The only proposal that would satisfy the property, and possession needs of either Israel, or the Palestinians, would be for the supporters of the people to act for their interest. Israel supporters have already acted of Israels needs, and Israel even gave some of their possessions to the Palestinians. Kinda odd how Iran gives their Palestinian friends, Hamas, but never invites them home for dinner, or a place at their table. The sandbox is pretty good size in Iran, and they are some very good builders. They can tunnel, and hide a complete nuclear site, but they don't have enough sand for their dear friends. They give them rockets to play with, but let them stand out in the cold waiting for retaliation. What a good friend!


I address that as well. in order for this to progress the international community has to abide by certain norms which are agreed upon by both parties. If a nation cannot abide by those then they have no place in the process or, the rewards at the end of it. Hence, if Iran or SA wishes to provide Hamas or Fatah with goods, services or such it must be approved by both parties. Similarly, the US aid given to Israel must also be approved by Palestine. The US would simply cut a check for Palestinians and buy their agreement to this aid.

See the pattern here? They have to sit down and do things together. Pay the bills, figure out where and what is going to go when and, with the whole thing revolving around money they can't do it all at once rather, each step of the way is regulated by rent, taxes, time and, best of all - common equity. By the time Palestinians have enough money to build and move in, they will have enough equity in the plan that they won't dare screw it up nor, elect a government who would screw up the money they've been saving for years.
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Jun 14, 2010 11:08 PM CST Middle East Peace Plan
RayfromUSA
RayfromUSARayfromUSAvienne, Rhone-Alpes France86 Threads 29 Polls 6,611 Posts
1. Disarm Israel and arm Palestine until there is military parity.

2. Bomb Israel and rebuild Palestine until there is infrastructural parity.

3. Rob Israel and give to Palestine until there is economic parity.

4. Starve Israel and feed Palestine until there is health parity.

Let that parity continue for 50 years and then let them take care of their own problems.
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Jun 14, 2010 11:09 PM CST Middle East Peace Plan
SilverBirch
SilverBirchSilverBirchSomewhere, Virginia USA17 Threads 4 Polls 3,158 Posts
Albertaghost: Got that figured, built the site and just chip away at it trying to figure ways around each small individual block so that somehow it might work.

Each to their own. If customs and laws differ then it is going to cost a lot of money to enforce borders so, keeping it in line with the financial aspect of the plan, if one side wishes something harmful or distasteful to the then they will have to share in the solution for the differences. It would be a way of forcing them to cooperate in paying their bills together.
Gaza, Hebron if they wish for their provinces and jerusalem for all once the trust is achieved. The latter would be put into place under Israeli security needs with a Palestinian consulate and later compound and later it's own small city such as the Vatican and then later still it's own claim to the capital in the form of a quarter.
none.
I said I agree with you Alberta.
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Jun 14, 2010 11:11 PM CST Middle East Peace Plan
SilverBirch
SilverBirchSilverBirchSomewhere, Virginia USA17 Threads 4 Polls 3,158 Posts
I'd sign off on the "Jeruselem for all" part.
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Jun 14, 2010 11:16 PM CST Middle East Peace Plan
Albertaghost
AlbertaghostAlbertaghostCultural Wasteland, Alberta Canada76 Threads 5 Polls 5,914 Posts
RayfromUSA: 1. Disarm Israel and arm Palestine until there is military parity.

2. Bomb Israel and rebuild Palestine until there is infrastructural parity.

3. Rob Israel and give to Palestine until there is economic parity.

4. Starve Israel and feed Palestine until there is health parity.

Let that parity continue for 50 years and then let them take care of their own problems.


Wrong thread Ray. This one is supposed to be a peace plan discussion. The war plan thread is ... well, you'll just have to start it and, looks like you have some great suggestions to perpetuate death and destruction for decades to come!thumbs up
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Jun 14, 2010 11:20 PM CST Middle East Peace Plan
Albertaghost
AlbertaghostAlbertaghostCultural Wasteland, Alberta Canada76 Threads 5 Polls 5,914 Posts
SilverBirch: I'd sign off on the "Jeruselem for all" part.


There's no reason why that wouldn't work. The entire thing has to be in phases though and, given the impatience and anger something has to be done to bring it about sooner than later.

I would imagine that starting with an office or a compound along with guided transport to and from Gaza and the west bank by road this would show at least a direction that this would take and probably do more to raise spirits than anything else.
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Jun 14, 2010 11:31 PM CST Middle East Peace Plan
SilverBirch
SilverBirchSilverBirchSomewhere, Virginia USA17 Threads 4 Polls 3,158 Posts
Albertaghost: There's no reason why that wouldn't work. The entire thing has to be in phases though and, given the impatience and anger something has to be done to bring it about sooner than later.

I would imagine that starting with an office or a compound along with guided transport to and from Gaza and the west bank by road this would show at least a direction that this would take and probably do more to raise spirits than anything else.
handshake
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Jun 15, 2010 12:05 AM CST Middle East Peace Plan
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
Real Estate agents are going to appraise Palestine land values and the PA is going to collect rent revenue that they are going to habd over to the Israeli.

It ain't Seattle, Washington gentelmen. But the middle east.

Were you see it perfectly OK to intermingle government affairs, they see it as a lose of soverniety and national security.

It will not take long for those that oppose the single state solution, to see that intermingling government affairs.....is really a big step to a single government.

Good luck...
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Jun 15, 2010 12:09 AM CST Middle East Peace Plan
jvaski
jvaskijvaskiunknown, California USA115 Threads 11 Polls 9,576 Posts
OMG .......Why don't you guys drop what you're doing and go over there as peace-keepers ??? dunno thumbs up roll eyes
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