Libya - Latest Updates Part II (937)
Buffy327: FYI apparently many folks have been kicked off cs, and r coming back as, Trolls, which of course just post on the sites specifically to disput or take away from the genuine diaglog that is taking place...I don't know if this is the case with this one, but he has been seen all over giving grief about pretty much everything....sighhhh
Thanks for the info Buffy, unfortunately we have to live with them around!------ This thread is Archived ------
As Gaddafi's forces launched raids against the opposition, with warplanes reportedly launching air strikes in two eastern towns, NATO's decision-making body, the North Atlantic Council, met in Brussels where Ambassadors "discussed the fast-moving situation in Libya" and expressed "great concern about continued violence and also about the serious humanitarian situation," NATO deputy spokeswoman Carmen Romero told AFP.
"The alliance continues to actively monitor events in that country," she said.
US Defence Secretary Robert Gates has acknowledged that there was no unanimity within NATO for the use of force.
Turkey, an influential NATO member with a majority Muslim population, rejected the idea of military action, saying the alliance could only intervene when one of its members is attacked.
"This would be absurd," Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said during a visit in Germany this week, according to Anatolia news agency. "NATO has no business being there."
"We are opposed to such a scenario. Such an eventuality is unthinkable."
Warning that military action could turn Arabs against Europe, French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe insisted that any operation, including policing Libya's skies, would first need approval from the United Nations
Holed up in Tripoli, Gaddafi warned that Western intervention to help rebels would trigger a "very bloody war" in which "thousands of Libyans would die."
The US military warned that enforcing a no-fly zone would be a complex operation that would require bombing the Gaddafi regime's radar and missile defences.
"The alliance continues to actively monitor events in that country," she said.
US Defence Secretary Robert Gates has acknowledged that there was no unanimity within NATO for the use of force.
Turkey, an influential NATO member with a majority Muslim population, rejected the idea of military action, saying the alliance could only intervene when one of its members is attacked.
"This would be absurd," Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said during a visit in Germany this week, according to Anatolia news agency. "NATO has no business being there."
"We are opposed to such a scenario. Such an eventuality is unthinkable."
Warning that military action could turn Arabs against Europe, French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe insisted that any operation, including policing Libya's skies, would first need approval from the United Nations
Holed up in Tripoli, Gaddafi warned that Western intervention to help rebels would trigger a "very bloody war" in which "thousands of Libyans would die."
The US military warned that enforcing a no-fly zone would be a complex operation that would require bombing the Gaddafi regime's radar and missile defences.
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The two Libyan Mirages flown to Malta by defecting pilots are being disarmed to render them safe.
This was confirmed by the Director of Information for Malta in a statement yesterday. Soon after the Mirages landed, a team of specialists from the UK’s Royal Air Force assisted in deactivating the weaponry and inspected the fighter jets.
In the second stage of the disarming process, a team of French civilian engineers, who were brought over from the company that produced the aircraft, were rendering them completely safe.
The fighter jets are being kept under constant guard by Maltese forces.
The two jets were flown to Malta last week by their pilots who allegedly disobeyed orders to bomb civilians in Benghazi. they have reported abandoning their squadron in a last-minute decision and headed to Malta.
This was confirmed by the Director of Information for Malta in a statement yesterday. Soon after the Mirages landed, a team of specialists from the UK’s Royal Air Force assisted in deactivating the weaponry and inspected the fighter jets.
In the second stage of the disarming process, a team of French civilian engineers, who were brought over from the company that produced the aircraft, were rendering them completely safe.
The fighter jets are being kept under constant guard by Maltese forces.
The two jets were flown to Malta last week by their pilots who allegedly disobeyed orders to bomb civilians in Benghazi. they have reported abandoning their squadron in a last-minute decision and headed to Malta.
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The Catamaran "San Gwann" was expected to return to Malta yesterday night with another 66 people on board while the "Maria Dolores" is also expected today. Both Catamarans have now become a regular ongoing shuttle service between Malta and Tripoli. The company has also stated that other Libyan harbours may be considered if required.
The Director of Information for Malta, Mr Bugelli said that 247 Maltese have now returned from Libya and seven are on their way.
Yesterday evening, the government received requests for assistance from another two Maltese. Another three are situated on oil rigs and no contact has yet been made with three Maltese known to be in the country.
Mr Bugelli noted that a Russian who arrived from Libya yesterday had gunshot wounds and is receiving treatment in hospital. A number of other passengers from the various trips required medical attention but this was the most serious case.
The Director of Information for Malta, Mr Bugelli said that 247 Maltese have now returned from Libya and seven are on their way.
Yesterday evening, the government received requests for assistance from another two Maltese. Another three are situated on oil rigs and no contact has yet been made with three Maltese known to be in the country.
Mr Bugelli noted that a Russian who arrived from Libya yesterday had gunshot wounds and is receiving treatment in hospital. A number of other passengers from the various trips required medical attention but this was the most serious case.
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Three Dutch soldiers were taken prisoner at the weekend by armed men during an operation to evacuate civilians from Libya, the Dutch defence ministry said today.
"We confirm it," a navy official told AFP when asked about the capture of three marines reported by Dutch daily De Telegraaf.
The paper said the three marines were captured by armed men loyal to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi while helping with the evacuation from Sirte in northern Libya of two unnamed civilians, one Dutch and another European, in a helicopter.
The marines were attacked after the helicopter landed. The two civilians were handed over by the Libyans to the Dutch embassy and have since left Libya, according to De Telegraaf.
"Intensive diplomatic discussions are underway for the freeing of the prisoners," according to the Dutch defence ministry quoted by ANP news agency.
The marines and the helicopter were based on board the Dutch frigate Tromp. The warship, which was initially to have taken part in an anti-piracy operation off Somalia, headed on February 24 for the Libyan coast.
The failure of the rescue operation and the capture of the Dutch marines were not made public earlier for security reasons, De Telegraaf said.
"We confirm it," a navy official told AFP when asked about the capture of three marines reported by Dutch daily De Telegraaf.
The paper said the three marines were captured by armed men loyal to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi while helping with the evacuation from Sirte in northern Libya of two unnamed civilians, one Dutch and another European, in a helicopter.
The marines were attacked after the helicopter landed. The two civilians were handed over by the Libyans to the Dutch embassy and have since left Libya, according to De Telegraaf.
"Intensive diplomatic discussions are underway for the freeing of the prisoners," according to the Dutch defence ministry quoted by ANP news agency.
The marines and the helicopter were based on board the Dutch frigate Tromp. The warship, which was initially to have taken part in an anti-piracy operation off Somalia, headed on February 24 for the Libyan coast.
The failure of the rescue operation and the capture of the Dutch marines were not made public earlier for security reasons, De Telegraaf said.
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zeus911:
The two jets were flown to Malta last week by their pilots who allegedly disobeyed orders to bomb civilians in Benghazi. they have reported abandoning their squadron in a last-minute decision and headed to Malta.
The two jets were flown to Malta last week by their pilots who allegedly disobeyed orders to bomb civilians in Benghazi. they have reported abandoning their squadron in a last-minute decision and headed to Malta.
Sounds like BS to me.
Military pilots very seldom refuse orders.
And why would anybody order them to bomb civilians anyway?
What purpose could it serve but to give more ammo to the CIA push to unseat Gadaffi.
The fact that the planes are to be modified by the RAF reminds me of similar cases in the past.
In the 60s it was claimed that Cuban pilots had defected to the US with their planes and the planes were then used to bomb Cuban air bases in preparation for the bay of pigs invasion. But when the Russian UN ambassador presented a photo-analysis of the planes showing them to be modified US aircraft and not the soviet aircraft they had been altered to resemble, Kennedy called of all further airstrikes.
Another case, a few years later.
The US shipped an entire air force fighter wing to Africa. All of the aircraft were repainted and all of the personnel were issued new uniforms with insignias saying "Free Congolese Air Force". My brother was in one of the ground crew units. At the last minute the operation was abandoned because the rebels had already taken the targeted airfield.
So my opinion on the two planes is that it's some sort of hoax.
Israel has plenty of mirages, so they could supply two for the masquerade. The intention being to: 1. pretend that the Libyan military is in disarray, 2. Pretend that the military is ordered to attack civilians. The aim is to gain world support for a western attack on Libya.
Personally I think Gadaffi is (relatively speaking) the "good guy" in all this, and I'm hoping, for the sake of the Libyan people, that his government will survive a while longer.
It's not that I think he's so great. But the US has been so terribly bad in countries it occupies.
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Wow, where are you getting this information? I didn't even know half of what was going on... CNN doesn't post anything on it! I can see why military intervention would possibly cause a bloody war; lets just hope the government collapses before too much more blood is shed.
What if some outside country gives them arms and other supplies? Would that be also taboo?
What if some outside country gives them arms and other supplies? Would that be also taboo?
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zeus911: The Catamaran "San Gwann" was expected to return to Malta yesterday night with another 66 people on board while the "Maria Dolores" is also expected today. Both Catamarans have now become a regular ongoing shuttle service between Malta and Tripoli.
My my, knowing that the Libyan Air Force still has nearly all of its aircraft, and the Libyan coast guard still has all of its patrol boats, it seems a little wanton to allow news of the whereabouts and activities of theses Catamarans.
Sounds like disinformation to me.
There is no "war" yet. For the moment the only battleground is in the realm of propaganda, with the US and its allies trying to build a case for invasion and the rest of the world trying to prevent any escalation.
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bollywood: This is a Propaganda . I have read about CIA using Facebook for propaganda . I guess CS is a victim of this .
Certainly.
As far back as the last months of the election it was reported that the Obama team had a policy of invading internet forums to flood them with pro-Obama propaganda. There is at least one person doing exactly that at CS. And in the political realm you can bet that with every crisis there are whole teams of professional propagandists forging posts all over the internet.
It's an info-war, for our minds.
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zeus911: Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi has appeared on Libyan state television in what was described as a celebration to mark the 34th anniversary of the people assuming power.
A large crowd in the ceremony, being held indoors, are chanting pro-Gaddafi slogans.
In a speech which is still in progress, Mr Gaddafi stated that Officers being ordered to defect at gunpoint. He also said he wanted to congratulate the people on the establishment of the people's authority in 1977.
On that day, he said he handed over his powers to the people's committees and he had not exercised any political or administrative authority.
The revolution, he said, had been carried out to liberate the territory and oilfields from the US and British forces and hand them to the people.
A large crowd in the ceremony, being held indoors, are chanting pro-Gaddafi slogans.
In a speech which is still in progress, Mr Gaddafi stated that Officers being ordered to defect at gunpoint. He also said he wanted to congratulate the people on the establishment of the people's authority in 1977.
On that day, he said he handed over his powers to the people's committees and he had not exercised any political or administrative authority.
The revolution, he said, had been carried out to liberate the territory and oilfields from the US and British forces and hand them to the people.
And from everything I've heard over the years from people who had actually lived in Libya, (there are many here in France) that is exactly the case. Gadaffi hasn't exercised direct political power over the nation in years. He's practically retired. Instead he delegates nearly all authority to local councils.
In that sense, Libya is more democratic than the US where the state-primary system of elections is so expensive that only multi-millionaire candidates have any chance whatsoever of getting elected (unless the cfr fix is in, of course). And all national policies therefore reflect the interests of only the richest 1% of the nation.
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RayfromUSA: Sounds like BS to me.
Military pilots very seldom refuse orders.
And why would anybody order them to bomb civilians anyway?
What purpose could it serve but to give more ammo to the CIA push to unseat Gadaffi...
Ray, you could be right about the cuban case and all alse you mention but waht you are terming as 'BS' are actually parked in our Airfield a few hundred meters away from me as I write. So whether CIA are involved in this or not, I am reporting 2 facts: The planes are HERE, and the pilots are HERE also and what they have reported was confirmed by other ground reports from Benghazi were they squadron was attacking.Military pilots very seldom refuse orders.
And why would anybody order them to bomb civilians anyway?
What purpose could it serve but to give more ammo to the CIA push to unseat Gadaffi...
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zeus911: what is a propaganda, bollywood? Are you referring to my postings? If so, would you kindly state exactly which part of what I have posted is propaganda? I am reporting facts here and I dare anyone to prove otherwise.
Please don't pay any attention to those trolls, Zeus, do not even bother answering them. We all ignore them and go straight to your posts to have interesting and valuable information.
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risingsnare: Wow, where are you getting this information? I didn't even know half of what was going on... CNN doesn't post anything on it! I can see why military intervention would possibly cause a bloody war; lets just hope the government collapses before too much more blood is shed.
What if some outside country gives them arms and other supplies? Would that be also taboo?
My information is coming from various sources, some of which I cannot disclose, but most of it is also available in public networks. The main thing is I am in Malta which is only about 300km north of Libya and am thus pretty much in the centre of the action.What if some outside country gives them arms and other supplies? Would that be also taboo?
Most aircraft and ship movements, I am confirming personally on site as things are happening (as are also most pics i've posted, all taken with my camera and mobile phone)
I must clarify that I am in no way either advocating an armed intervention in Libya nor supporting the Libyan regime. I am trying to report facts and my main interest in this is for all of this crisis to end as soon as possible in the interest of the Libyan people and all the foreigners and immigrants who are all effected by this human tragedy.
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gabrielle95: Please don't pay any attention to those trolls, Zeus, do not even bother answering them. We all ignore them and go straight to your posts to have interesting and valuable information.
You're right Gabrielle, I'm only answering for other persons who may see their posts. How's things at your end?------ This thread is Archived ------
The Canadian Navy Frigate "HMCS Charlottetown" leaves Halifax harbour today for Malta to join Libya operations, the Canadian government has announced.
In the mean time the British Destroyer "HMS York" has left the Benghazi region and is heading towards Valletta harbour, Malta. I have reports that it could be reaching harbour at around 2:00pm local time.
In the mean time the British Destroyer "HMS York" has left the Benghazi region and is heading towards Valletta harbour, Malta. I have reports that it could be reaching harbour at around 2:00pm local time.
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Al Jazeera has learned that Hugo Chavez, the Venezuelan president, has offered to mediate a solution to the crisis in Libya, and in the last few hours, Colonel Gaddafi accepted the offer.
Gaddafi spoke to Chavez and agreed in principle to a mediation plan. We've also learned that the Arab League has welcomed the offer.
Gaddafi spoke to Chavez and agreed in principle to a mediation plan. We've also learned that the Arab League has welcomed the offer.
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This is most probably unrelated to the Libyan crisis but I have reports that a French Air Force Mirage 2000N has crashed during a night training flight at Saint-Oradoux-pres-Crocq, above the Creuse region.
The Mirage disappeared from radar screens Tuesday night while it was on a "traditional mission". The two 30 year old crew members are said to have been found dead in the wreckage.
Bad visibilty and high fog was reported.
The Mirage disappeared from radar screens Tuesday night while it was on a "traditional mission". The two 30 year old crew members are said to have been found dead in the wreckage.
Bad visibilty and high fog was reported.
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zeus911: You're right Gabrielle, I'm only answering for other persons who may see their posts. How's things at your end?
Hot and sunny here. I think all Cypriots from Lybia are now back home.
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zeus911: This is most probably unrelated to the Libyan crisis but I have reports that a French Air Force Mirage 2000N has crashed during a night training flight at Saint-Oradoux-pres-Crocq, above the Creuse region.
The Mirage disappeared from radar screens Tuesday night while it was on a "traditional mission". The two 30 year old crew members are said to have been found dead in the wreckage.
Bad visibilty and high fog was reported.
The Mirage disappeared from radar screens Tuesday night while it was on a "traditional mission". The two 30 year old crew members are said to have been found dead in the wreckage.
Bad visibilty and high fog was reported.
French press do not relate this accident to the Libyan situation. They talk about a "training mission". Both pilot and co-pilot bodies have been found dead.
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News of the "HMS Cumberland" and the "HMS York" indicate they have both headed towards Benghazi, the former to continue ferrying evacuees to Malta and the latter reportedly to deliver supplies, medication and foodstuffs in a relief effort.
In the mean time I once again confirm that the South Korean Destroyer, the "Choi Young" is heading to Valletta and should be here over the coming days. While the amphibious assault ships "USS Kearsarge" and the "USS Ponce" are reported to have cleared the Suez Canal earlier. The aircraft carrier "USS Enterprise" is reported to be still in the north of the Red Sea is also reported to be heading to the mediterranean.
The German Frigate "FGS Niedersachsen" berthed at the Grand Harbour, Valletta Malta (Photo with my mobile)