diogenes Forum Posts (4,761)

RE: Existence of God v Science

Experience and "awareness" are not mutually connected. At least, not the type of awareness that we are eluding to. However, there remains a pathway to awareness, and it begins with emotion. Science understands, at least in part, the chemical makeup of emotion. The hypothalamus creates peptides, the peptides are delivered to every cell in the body, and have a very real affect on them. Each of our cells have receptors for specific peptide sequences, as well as other nutrients. And science has observed that if a person experiences a particular emotion again, and again, when the cell replicates, the new cell will have more receptors for that emotion sometimes even less receptors for nutrients. So then, in a very real sense, we can become addicted to our emotions.

Since conception is the joining of cells from the parents, the parent cells will already have the receptors for whatever emotional 'addiction' is present in the parent. As the fetus developes its cells will experience whatever emotions the mother is experiencing, and as the cells replicate, the receptors on the new cells will reflect whatever emotional patterns are present.

The first stage of the pathway of awareness is emotional, because for each of us, our first experiences are emotion. After birth, when we begin to experience the physical world, develop our eyesight, motor skills, and so on; as infants our only means of communication is emoting, and we can observe the physical consequence of the emotions in the child. Crying, happy giggles, spastic kicks, and arm flailing, or loving snuggles, etc.

The next stage in the pathway of awareness for each of us is physical. And early on, as well as later in life, our emotional state, has very real physical consequences. Science and medicine have observed this.

As we continue to navigate through the 3-D world, and our cognitive skills develop, so does the ego. The part of us that sees us as separate from everything. I'll give more attention to the ego in subsequent posts, because I must be approaching the 4000 charater limit (dang it!) maybe I should dumb down the vocabulary so I can fit more characters per post

Dio's Secret Public Journal

So Journal,

About the fire fighting thing....that picture is, kind of dated. I was working for Halliburton, and that's thier uniform color. I went to work for another company, wore a similar uniform, but it was grey. Now that company has been bought out by another, and I'm in a red uniform again.



Maybe if I go work for Schlumberger, in their blue uniforms everyone will think I'm a

RE: Existence of God v Science

The first part was a quote from PastorTim.

The writer of Hebrews was referecing the dozens of Old Testament references that describe God as a consuming fire.

I was thinking about environmental science too, but I couldn't remember the term....fire impact community, fire climax community maybe...like the savannahs, and conifer forests in California....anyway...like you said fire is necessary for life in these ecological communities.


But my real point remains cloaked.

RE: Existence of God v Science

Yeah, oops!

Our bad!

RE: Existence of God v Science

How come the quotes are failing in my last cuople of posts?

RE: Existence of God v Science

...life cannot come from fire...

Hebrews 12:29

Deuteronomy 4:24, 9:3

Exodus 24:17

et.al.




This was not a random act of passive agression, I almost always have a point to make. And, I generally take a while to get to it.

RE: Existence of God v Science

Now the doctrine, or theology, or interpretation of meaning, has undoubtedly been influenced by men of power, and continues to be, and will continue. Which is a good reason not to just accept someones explanation.

I like the buddhist teaching, "Truth has nothing to do with scripture. Truth can be likened to the bright Moon in the sky. Scripture, in this case, can be likened to a finger. The finger can point to the moon's location. However, the finger is not the Moon. To look at the Moon, it is necessary to gaze beyond the finger.”

I'm staying up too late with this stuff

Can't you guys find the Moon by yourselves?

RE: Existence of God v Science

Oh yeah!

Most people don't consider animals to be moral agents, but I do. I just think that they are much better at it than we are.

And, what a phony etymology of conscience! Any true philologist knows that it's an English adaptation of the Latin conscientia. Con in latin is "with", not against. With knowledge...not necessarily scientific knowledge either.

Consciousness creates movement in energy....

The thing is, science is impressive. To the point that many are overwhelmed and/or intimidated by it. It's already been said, that at a subnuclear level, matter and energy are one in the same. And, science has observed this.

Yet, despite that knowledge, despite all we have learned about, the human body, the chemical makeup of emotion, the ability, to measure the neural impulses of thought...still science cannot pinpoint, or measure the part of You, that You experience as being You.

So, no one can prove empirically, that God exists. Really, neither can anyone prove empirically, that You exist. Just who are You? You are not your body, or your name, or a story about events related to that body and name. Neither are You emotions, or the chemicals that make emotions. You are not neural nerve fibers, or the tiny electrical charges in them, nor the atoms that make them up, nor the subatomic particals of the atoms. Your consciousness cannot be seen, felt, smelt, heard, or otherwise measured, and yet we all have it.

When Puddly Bear says that consciousness creates movement in energy, I'm not certain that's incorrect, it certainly seems true to me. But, it also seems to imply that consciousness is something other than energy. Which I also believe to be true. Although, I don't have any science to back me up...that I know of. Just theory, like Mike, or Pud.

RE: Existence of God v Science

I agree with you, I think, that many need to revamp what we label as "good" or "bad".

Also, Mike, Myself, and everyone else really are all victims of the same illness. We merely display different symptoms, and to varying degrees. This is why the opposing viewpoints go at each other. They need to, they need the "other" to be wrong. It gives the illusion of superiority. I'm right, "they" are wrong. It's ego food. When one opponent is eliminated, the insatiable ego will seek another. Take christians as an example...Jesus said that Christians (big C) should be known for thier like mindedness, and yet the church (little c) is probably the most segregated institution on the planet. Look at all the one horse towns in America with churches across the street from one another. Why does a town with a population of 200 need four churches? Because if you don't believe like I believe, I'll just take my friends and start a new church. (there are group egos too by the way)

And, I once thought I thought I knew what you meant by duality, but the more I see you use the term, the more the pud gets muddeled. I see all life on a continuum of duality. Consider freedom or restriction. Most Americans (I'm one), love to talk about freedom. This is a free country, I have the right to do this, I have the right to do that, free country! But we are not absolutely free, nor do we want that....really. I'm not free to punch you in the face just because I'm annoyed; there are restrictions. Yet, neither do we want to be totally restricted. Balance is what we seek.

Now, back to consciousness creating movement in energy....I suppose I shall require another post.

RE: Existence of God v Science

Hey!



I said, "I get it".

It was those other dudes arguing thermal dynamics open or closed system etc.

I'm reminded of the first post that I made in this thread, as I consider entropy. Really, entropy is a no-thing. It's a theoretical concept, a bias of perspective.

Although, when the term is used so loosely, it is useful for describing human experiences such as emotion. However, few of us experience life in this manner. I mean, sure many of us, if not each of us have let frustration build to the point of an outburst of some form. Some of us are more conscious of this occurance within ourselves than others, and may go talk to somebody and say something like, "I just needed to vent." And still, for many, even this consciousness, an understanding of entropy, cellular reactions, to peptides from our hypothalamus, does nothing to stop it.

We choose partners that aren't good for us, or drink to excess, lash out in anger, or get the poor me sydrome and whine. We know from experience what leads us into these situations, and yet we do it, again, and again, and again. Someone already reffered to Paul: I don't realize what I'm doing. I don't do what I want to do. Instead, I do what I hate. Romans 7:15 (GWT)

None of these scientific descriptions bring us any closer to resolution. Instead it's more of a red herring which distracts us from what we are really looking for.

I gotta read your other posts now.

RE: Existence of God v Science

I know, it's like Rush Limbaugh's alter-ego!



Initiating man-crush neuro-peptide sequence

Perfect Blend

Time to make more Frankenbabes, and hunkensteins.





muah ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaa!

Weird Science!

RE: Songs for your mood right now

RE: Songs for your mood right now

Happy?

RE: Songs for your mood right now

Paolo Nutini ~ Last Request

RE: Existence of God v Science

By the way Cameraman....

I didn't mean you

It was just rhetoric, Ya dig?

RE: Existence of God v Science

I'd have to agree with StressFree....this is misleading.

It seems to me that any attempt to time stamp the Earth by retracing the scriptural accounts are in and of themselves misguided attempts. The creation account we read in Genesis was never meant to be a time map of the Earth. Genesis, and the other books of the Pentateuch are a legal document.

Why include the creation account in a legal document?

Because, if we recognize authority as being both the right, and the power to command obedience, then certainly creating the Earth, and delivering the Hebrews from Egypt would give God both the right, and the power to establish the levitical laws that the hebrews were to live by. Man that was a long sentence!

The whole helium in crytals thing stinks of post hoc fallacy. Correlation does not mean causation. If ice cream sales, go up in the summer time, and the crime rate also goes up in the summer time, that doesn't mean that I can argue that Ice Cream Causes Crime.

If they mean for me to by that, I would have to learn alot more about crytals, then they still have to explain away other indicators of the Earth's age, and after all that, it still wouldn't necessarily make it consistent with scripture.

I don't mean this commentary as evidence in support of an atheistic stance. Personally, I'm not convinced that science and scripture are in conflict.

One example: Examine carefully the scriptural account of creation, and the order that things appear. Six days of creating things, Six paleozoic periods. It seems to line up. There is no real reason to assume that it was literally seven 24 hour days especially since the sun and moon don't even show up until day four.

Also, why not brush up on some common literary devices, you know what I mean, the way people tell stories? Study a little Hebrew, these things can't hurt. Examine things for yourself, we can't ever find understanding simply through accepting what others tell us; whether they be scientists, or pastors.

There is enough consistency between the creation account and evolutionary theory, that it seems improbable that Moses simply guessed right by coincidence. And, there is too much discrepancy for it to be taken literally.

Notice the repetition? "Be Dusk, Be Dawn, Be Day One, Be Dusk, Be Dawn, Be Day Two" (a very literal translation)

Hebrew music and poetry stress rhythm and paralellism, rather than the rhyme and meter that we are accustomed too, and scarcely existed before pythagoras.

The Torah is sung, the story is a poetic expression in a legal document, to establish God's authority to give the levitical law to the Hebrews. It was never meant to be used as a date stamp.

RE: What the difference between a Hoover vacuum and a Harley motorcycle?

I think there's no difference.....


They both suck!

RE: What percentage of CS members are mentally ill?

Everyone on Earth is mentally ill. We only differ in degree.

RE: Existence of God v Science

Mr. Pudmuddle,

Do you Sir, claim to have a handle on what infinity is?

I share your loathing for dogma, and regurgitated doctrine in lieu of understanding. However, I do not see the connection between infinity, and one's personal conscience. Maybe you can help us.

Is it infinity, your personal conscience (which I understood as not separate from life on your own terms), or is it your conscience driven by the power of infinity, that led you to write a post which seems to be full of derision?

The tones of religion is ridiculous, do not seem to me to have any more value or merit than booming god like tones. Rather, it seems quite disrespectful, more ad hominem than actual argument.

If it is true that there is only one infinity, and we are in it, then would that by extension make us each infinite?

If I am infinite, then what affect should that have on my personal conscience, or how I live my life, or treat others for that matter?

RE: Why Do men Die Before Their Wives?

I still want to view the mounds

RE: Why Do men Die Before Their Wives?

You want me to bite your ?




We hardly even know each other!

RE: Why Do men Die Before Their Wives?

Hell!

I didn't know what real happiness was unitl I got married....and then it was too late!

RE: Why Do men Die Before Their Wives?

Just think, if it weren't for marriage.....men would go through life thinking they had no faults at all!

RE: Why Do men Die Before Their Wives?

It is not true that married men live longer than single men......it only seems longer!

RE: Ummm....??

I'd try, but he's way too quick witted for me!





(also one of my favorite posters)

RE: Why Is It Difficult To Find Men Who Are Sensitive, Caring and Good Looking?

It's easy to find them...... if you're gay!

RE: Best Movie QUOTE ever!!!

Robert Duvall as Hub McCann in Secondhand Lions (2003)

Hoodlum: Hey, who do you think you are, huh?

{Grabs Hood 1 by the throat}

Hub: I'm Hub McCann. I've fought in two World Wars and countless smaller ones on three continents. I led thousands of men into battle with everything from horses and swords to artillery and tanks. I've seen the headwaters of the Nile, and tribes of natives no white man had ever seen before. I've won and lost a dozen fortunes, KILLED MANY MEN and loved only one woman with a passion a flea like you could never begin to understand. That's who I am. NOW, GO HOME, BOY!

RE: Seeking the unattainable

Calm down girls!

I'm not that unattainable.

RE: Everybody lies

Yeah!

Just like Watership Down!

"The Threarah doesn't like anything he hasn't thought of for himself."