Compared to previous harsh treatment of American POWs In vet Nam, In Iraq, in Japan, and elsewere, emmaline... a waterboarding session is a shower and shave at the local barber.
I got it. Rumsfield comes out with a book on the wars of GWB administration. European liberals are trying to shout it out. Meaning they don't like what is it in it. Or they are afraid of what is in it.
It is time me for pick up Rumsfield's book and to see what this is about.....
But another thought.....
Clinton can take down Milosovic....Bush 1 Can halt Sadam in Kuwait....and there is no international outcry there. Obama comes into the office and runs basically the same programs as GWB.....no international outcry there.
GWB has 3000 Americans killed and cannot chase bin Laden in Afghanistan and take down Iraqi dictator without being made defendants for global liberal legal jhadists.
The US tortures all of its military pilots? Vinnie all of our military pilots go thru a waterboaring in the capture and escape course.
This might include.....one George W. Bush...a former National Guard pilot.
I am not sure what courses he went thru or what the programs were then for the F-16. But it a possibility. He might have first hand experience to this EIT.
Dude's attitude here is in the thread is that Obama can just will the economy to being better. And if it does not it is those mean nasty REP blocking his executive decision that keeps it from happening.
Those same executive decisions to safe guard the CA marsh mouse habitat with 4m in TARP funding. The economic impact of that was?
Or the Fannie and Freddie white wash as Bernacke and Greenspan get the blame for the economic crisis. Not understanding the cause of the crisis just mean a do over can come.
Or it is Big business fault.... GM making the Volt.... that now the new GM can barely push out of the dealer doors. Those a nasty Wall street bankers....needing regulation.
Or it was the small business that Chamber of Commerce represents fault.All that foreign donation money coming into the country to push back on Obama positions.
Of course finally and ultimately it is the dreaded and hated GWB fault. For spending 10b a month in Iraq (while Obama spends 20b a month) and has thousands of fewer troops there.
So my question to Dude....when would this ever become Obama fault? Or his DEM party fault?
Let us make it simple. You get a local electric bill in the mail. Do you sent the check to a electric company 1000s miles away? No, your contract is with that eletric compnay and that one alone. You send it to the company you have a contract (agreement) with.
You want us to treat para military forces (alQeada is para military) and a barely recognized government (only 4 countries recognized the Taliban to the be the government of Afghanistan) as full nation states parties. It is simple, they are not. They don't wear military uniforms but fight in civilian clothing. The US did not recognize the Taliban....so if the party was not diplomatically recognized...how can that party be a signator on the Geneva Convention?
Vinny there is no Geneva Convention agreement here.
Iraq....Iraq was on international probation after the first Gulf war. It has lost some of its UN standing and voting abilities because of the Kuwait invasion. That is why the US was made a UN Proterate of the country with overflights.
Iraq was no long a country in "good standing" in the international community. It was under sanction by teh internaitonal community. A lost of good standing can cause severance of the Geneva Convention rights, I suggest.
OReilly did not believe President Obama, when he said that "I think that by the time you get here, you have to have a pretty think skin. If you didn't you probably would not have gotten here."
OReilly thinks that President Obama is thinned skinned....and is taking criticism of his administration pretty hard.
But OReilly does say this. That Obama is a 'true believer' in his economic program at the beginning of his term. That the country faced a sever depression and needed the spending to halt it.
All I can say...is that President needs to post here in CS for a time....we can toughen him up. Or skin him alive.....
We don't have treatise with either the Taliban or alQeada, Vinny. GITMO under that legal concept....because all there were alQeada from Afghanistan....was totally legal to do.
Iraq was a signator of the Geneva Convention. Until abu Grail, there were few violations of Geneva convention here. Sadam's Iraq was also hosting alQeada linked terrorist groups....could that violate one's Geneva Convention agreement to host a terrorist group that is going to wage war with out the convention as guideline?
I don't know. But my legal instincts is saying it would.
We don't have to honor if they have not signed it, Vinny.
Geneve Convention is a international convention with severability. Meaning to gain the benefit of the convention, you have to be a signator. And you have to be a honorable signator. SAdam be his hosting of terrorist groups and his treatment of Iraqi civilian had lost his standing to the treaty.
It is all legal globby gook, I do admit....but it is the day of political correctness.
By the way...since AlQeada and the Taliban....have taken all of 1 prisoner in Afghanistan and alQeada of Iraq did not take any .....I would say that none of these combatant parties are acting in the spirit of the Geneva Conventions....that encourages the taking of prisoners "when ever it was humanly possible within the acts of war"
When parties like bin Laden break international law....leader don't have a right to defend thier country with all the resources available to them?
6 men were water boarded in GITMO. 1 confirmed up the Brooklyn bridge attack. The attack was planned for early morning rush hour....10,000 would have been on the bridge when it fell.
We should let 10000 perish for the sake of international law?
Jean what do you think Sadam was doing to his people? The Shia revolted in Basra....his attack helo slaughtered them....the Kurds in the North were targets for Chemical Alies....it was Sadam's meat hooks they they found in abu Grail Prison.... there was number mass graves that they uncovered in Iraq.....after we got into the country are well documented.
Aren't you happy and proud that we stopped Sadam's slaughter of his own people?
How much water do the Middle East Muslim Countries want?
They have coastal contact with the MED, Red Sea, Persian Gulf, Caspian Sea, Indian Ocean, Sea of Arabia, Gulf of Oman, Gulf of Aden, Gulf of Suez, Gulf of Aden, Atlantic Ocean, and yes the Jordan River.
Make or buy a distillation plant make fresh water from salt water.
Israeli Westerns? I have heard of Spegatti Westerns....from Italy....but Israeli Western?
MB is the grand father of all Islamic terrorist groups in ideology and rhetoric. If they were not violent why did Egypt ban the MB after Sadat's assignation? A case of mistaken identity?
Everyone in the GWB administration extends a great thank you to the participants and owner of wikileaks for making all their messages fruit of the poison tree.
How goes the Egyptian rebellion Dude? That old 83 year old Mubarak is still sitting in the Presidency. Tougher than he looks, yes?
I think that part of this was about the new age bias that liberals around the world have. All the street protestor were from 15-60 in age.
Those old people that have all the world's wealth need to be taught a lesson. Throw them out of office or do a little legal wealth redistribution on them.
Maybe Mubarak is doing a little teaching of his own ?
I bet you even liked the part were the Highway patrol office lost his gun and the tanker of gas was blown sky high......don't kid me it was not just the cliff scene....nothing like a little rebellion against the man.....
I don' understand....they have got Mubarak on the ropes. But they are not staying in the fight to finish him off? Maybe they are worried about the civil war that can come from this.
But when they started the protest....that course was taken.
Both Washington and Tehran read this totally wrong...if they back down now. I can understand us missing it. We do it all the time. But Tehran? When they have foreign instigators in the protestors?
Some thing strange is happening....like Jimmy Hendrix use to say.
Looks like Mubarak might stay.....opps......someone dropped the ball.....then miss the inbound pass...the lay up.....and the jump ball all on the same play.)) But street protest are thinning in Cairo.
Dude....President Obama gives the Chamber of Commerce a Address on his economic program. It has to be a real bummer, to have him flip out on you like that. Those nasty foreign money magnates getting their own personalized message from the President.
Leigh...see what little Huron Indian Peace Dancing will do? We got them to settle down in Cairo. When one want something down in the world come to a REPublican that knows how to get it done.....
The Obama administraiton is making the biggest moon walk on Egypt to date...now saying it never pressured Mubarak to leave. Hillary did it yesterday Was repeated today. Envoy Winer is looking like bloody master mind.....while the Obama adminstration distanced itself from him. While moon walking right over the cliff on Egypt.....
I just have to wonder.....did Winer's report first go to foreign President Clinton and Sect. State Clinton prior to the White House?
Well sometimes a envoy just does not say the right thing. President Obama sent a former Egyptian ambassador to meet with Mubarak and give a assessment.
On his return...former Ambassador Winer (Clinton ADmisntration) said Mubarak should stay thru the transtition. At which point the White House bus pushed Winer out the door faster than it was planning to do to Mubarak.
Winer logic is that you need someone in charge to see the transtition occurs. The White House logic is Mubarak must go and must go now. Oh that is a street protester cry.......
After Winer's remarks the White House was quick to say they had not been coordinated with the White House and does not reflect the White House position on Egypt.
Then mentioned black US Embassy staffer.....was wearing one of those black leather coats...just like Obama's security detail of the 2008 Presidential race. I found that strange as well since it was a mild summer night in Cairo. And most were in short sleeves.
The 120,000 foreign fighter that the Bush admisntration had been holding in Iraq are set free. Several months ago by the Obama/Maliki decision of the time. Then they go home. And we have street protest occurring across the Muslim world.
Except in Iran. There were a number of Iranian released then as well. But the street protest in Iran, over the election had already cooled. And the Iranian arrested were likely members of the Revolutionary Guard....so they are not going to street protest in Iran.
But you have in 2008, the US intelligence agencies...saying send these guys home....and you will have trouble in those countries. Obama had to know that. It had to be in the transtition report of GWB adminstration. The one that Biden and Obama could not be bothered with....
Washington knew 4-5 months ago trouble was coming to the middle east. Instead of putting travel advisories out...to keep American safe and planning different trips....they failed to. So we end up with 52,000 American in the middle of a revolution in Egypt.
Obama used those 120,000 foreign fighter in Iraq. Just as he is using the 52,000 American in Egypt. To bring about a foreign government change. He would not let Hosni Mubarak on the stage with him during the Cairo address. Those giving the liberals in Egypt a starting point for a rebellion. Not only that, when Mubarak frees Nour, in 2009....Does the White House make a big issue of it? No. Not a whisper or thank you from the White House.
This all tells me....that Washington and Cairo have been at odds...and that the Obama White House has been planning this for some time.
A few months ago, I saw a National Geographic special on Egypt and the US Embassy. A embassy staffer, a black guy was taking the NG film crew thru a poor part of Cairo. He knew all the street vendors by name. Am saying to myself...how does a US Embassy staffer send so much time in this section of Cairo....that he knows the vendors by name? A US embassy staffer has plenty on his table. Unless ordered to make the associations....
Everyone knows how to build a nuc, Leigh....that has been on the net for year. Or make any other kind of WMD that is out there.
So wikileaks does not effect really the weapons...as so much the operations. Here....a wikileak user will take some bit of info...like was done here...take it out of context....and you have nations sectretary of state yelling at each other.
That is one real goal here. To break down international relationship between governments. They used the mass reports of Iraq and afghanistan to hide that contest messages in. Those that dig them out....feel like they have done the world a favor and some grave wrong of the past is exposed.
The other real goal here. And were fruit of the piosonious tree come into play....is not just for US officials....but any that might be charged by the US government. Here....those GITMO detainees....just get another chance for the get out of jail card. Or if alAwalki was captured tomorrow...and there were wikileak document on him that led to this.....
But the US government started to relocate and take people into the protection program .....so I don't think that your concern on people getting in more danger is as bad as it might be.
Assuange can go public with every secret the US has ever made. It does not matter. It just makes each of the writers and the those that memo the material....safe from prosecution as it is then "fruit of the poison tree"
This was done several times during the Cold war. A release of incriminating documents occurred via some theft or breach of the US secrets act. In CIA lingo...it is called "white washing".
ttom500 Forum Posts (10,523)
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RE: Bush cancels travel plans.
Compared to previous harsh treatment of American POWs In vet Nam, In Iraq, in Japan, and elsewere, emmaline... a waterboarding session is a shower and shave at
the local barber.