HSD...you have 6000 Europeans trapped in Libya right now. Everyone Malta is asking were the Americans are. I just told them that the President sent the carrier fleet to south thru the Suez on a mission to the Persian Gulf or Indian Ocean. You don't mind do you?
The President sent our carrier fleet in the MED on a mission to the Persian Gulf or Indian Ocean. It went thru the Suez several days ago. We only have one destroyer in the med at this time.
Dude, you don't get it. I don't care how they precieve their revolutions in ME. I and other Americans care about those 32,000 Americans in the ME.
How the revolutions shake can be anything. No one alive can predict that. But you take you military assistance from your Civilians when they in harms way.
Remember the last hours of the Siagon? Before th fall to North Vet Nam? 100s of Americans and South Vet Nam were able to escape via the air assets of the carrier fleets.
President Obama has so little regard for American lives...those that are also voter....just shows where his priorities are. It is not in the welfare of Americans or the country. Or else that carrier fleet....would be in the med.
We will take take care of this in the 2012. Because this most timelined and documented serise of events in modern time. It will be brought up both in Congress and in the 2012.
You can fed the BS to youthful Europeans teens and college students. They tend to accept anything....as long as it is attached to 'we are the world'.
The smiply truth is this. President Obama has left 32,000 American to the instable street of several middle eastern countries. Tat has not been done since the Japanese invaded the Phillipine Island in 1941 and took 110,000 Amercian civilian as prisoners.
That effected the course of WWII. President Obama decision has made those 32,000 American pawns in the grand geo political chess game of the Iranian regime and other hard line Islamics. He trusts the Muslim street more than he trust the sworn officer, nco and enlisted of the American miltary for the safety of these 32,000.
I once told you as long as he love the country and the people of the country....then I could support him. I cannot say that anymore. Nor should any man or woman that took the oath to defend teh country and its people. They should resign their commissions and appointments. I have.
He ordered that battle carrier group from the med, so that Muslim countries and hardliners could not point at the United States and say we were active in the region during this period of unrest. He left his countrymen to the fate of 90m Muslims, and his administration should end in 2012 for this alone.
When Iran Revolution Guard Vessels are plying waters in the MED....because Revolutionary Guard has a navel force. When those vessel likely tipped off the location of the Adam's Quest Sail boat the Somalian pirates that just executed them. And the US Navy cannot help. With 600 American in Libya that cannot get air transport out of the country....but have to make their way to the post of vessel transfered.....when there are still at least 30,000 Americans in Eygpt....
and the President orders a Battle carrier fleet from the MED to Indian Ocean...I don's wiki to tell me how messed up this administration is.
The rest of it going to fall how it falls. President Obama only responsiblity here is to those Americans that are in harms way. Not making revolutions, not supporting rebellions.....but the safety of the 32,000 American that he just sent the US fleet away from.
He skinned his own goose worse than Jimmy Carter did....if any of those Americans end in some hellish Islamic camp run by the Muslim Brotherhood...or by Hamas or by Hezbolloh. I will mention one name here....Gilad Shalit....and you can see the potential danger he has.
That is OK Dude...we will pick up the piece in the middle east after President Obama has let most of the country there become radical Islamic government after the 2012.
Freedom does not die because some hardline mullah comes into power. Or some radical cleric. Or some fakey Islamic beuarcrat.
All we do reignite the revolutions for freedom and liberty after Obama gives the region to Islamic extremist. So no big deal....
i would advise just the opposite. Let her land and hear her story. First for aviation safety. But also it might be she is fleeing Col Kdaffi as well. And so might have a great deal to say at this time that is very revelant.
You can check her story and if it does not check out...deport her.
Kdaffi former Justice minister....just said Kdaffi ordered the Lockerbie bombing. Says he has evidence to prove it.
Mustafa Abdel-Jalil former minister of Justice under Kdaffi....tolds the Swedenish reporter from Expressen...that Kdaffi ordered the Lockerbie bombing. That he gave teh order to al-Megrahri.
Then would do any anything after al-Megrahri imprisonment...to get him back...to keep him from confessing to the order.
He did not show the evidence to Expressen during the statement.
This was all done in Libya....so me thinks Mr. Jalil may soon have mid night visitors. Or he better get his person out of Libya with his evidence. If so swing by the nearest US Embassy, am sure some there would like to speak with you.
I could not see all photo just the rotors. I though the bad boy nasty Hind was the M-18. Btu most of Kdaffi military equipment is Russian....and the Russian friends of Bout are looking at allot of new business...with the ME revolutions.
The way I have understood this, Ccindy. There were 19 total pirates. 15 gave up. 2 were already dead when the SF team boarded the Quests. 2 were killed by the SF team in boarding.
What I think happen the 2 that were found dead by the SF were trying to protect the Americans. So 2 that the SF team killed....were hardliners and likey killed the Americans. Then stood to fight the SF boarding team.
But the gov't will come out with a full report on what happened here. That will take some time to put together.
I can spell it out for you Paldi....but I suspect you have been in as many SB threads as I have to know.
I did find it of interest how the fleeing foreign nationals in Libya have placed under Kdaffi's armed guards in the Airport. Only to have pro Kdaffi protester attempt to get to them.
Non why would pro Kdaffi protesters attempt to reach the departing foreigners? Why would the Kdaffi's armed guards stop the protestors?Kind of sounds like a staged event to me. But also has all the potentials of events like at certain African airport called Entieppe.
My thought it is to the west, how dependant they are to Col Kdaffi and his sons for their protection.
I don't think Kdaffi has the Hind 16 either. That is the bad boy of Rambo movies. What was on list was the Russian M-8....which is lot like our Huey.It is a transport helo that can modified with machine guns.
But the real deal is... Kdaffi is bring in mercs....and who knows what they bring into the country.
If the Russian weapon seller Bout....now in US custody and facing US criminal prosecution had anything to say to it....these AFrican mercs are all going to be well equiped with the latest and the most lethal stuff that mother Russia can make.
The 30mm chain cannon that is on the American Apache....it is lot different than the machine guns that can be mounted on the Helos. It was designed for destroying armor vehicles. If Kadaffi is using 30mm chain cannons on his people.....he really has gone nuts.
You can have 30mm cannons mounted on vehicles. The Sweden's Bolfors make a 30mm cannon that has wide spread sales around the globe.
When GWB and Condi Rice took them off the terrorist list.....and return diplomatic recognition from the US.....they did not say any about US weapons sales to him. I am pretty sure they were on the sanction list even after the recognition. I can check.
Here is list of users of the Apache
US Amry Isreal UK Suadi Netherland
Future sales to UAE Kuwait Egypt Greece Signapore Indian Japan South Korea
No listed sale to Libya or a merc party that might fly one in.
Who is saying it? I listened to the Rueter reports. There word of US Apache being used. There are many attack helo made in the world. France several models of attack helo...UK makes them.....Germany has model. Not to mention Russian Hinds.
All of our weapons sales are made public at the time.
Libyan military assets are mostly Soviet made. MIGs, T-72 and T-82 tanks.....so I am not saying that he is not using attack helos. But I don't think that they are American made Apaches.
I checked the Wiki on the Libyan Airforce assets.
It doesnot list any Apaches as being part of their helo inventory.
It does list some old Huey...Vet Nam era. And Chinook C-47 again vet Nam area. And some Jet Rangers. And it list M-8 Russian helo.
All those can be modified to carry rockets and machine guns. And they are all avialable on the international market place from many sources.
Of the 4 pirates killed on the Quest. Two were dead when the SF team arrived. Then two killed during SF team's boarding.....one in hand to hand...with knife wounds. Some of the pirates had given up and were on the foredeck with raised hands.
But one had launched a RPG at the trailing US Navy Vessel. That had set the response into boarding action. President Obama had given the Navy vessels authorization to use force if immement threat to the hostage occurred.
First reports has the pirates high on Kut. They were all teenagers.
This is crazy and sucidial stuff. To launch a RPG at a US destroyer that has main gun and helo? With a SP team abroad? What in the world are these Somalian teens thinking about?
Also out friends in Iran....are saying the the ME revolutions are going to "reach the United States"
Better find us a site of GWB selling Apache helo to Gadaffi. Before you get called a out right liar. Because I already did a search on it cannot find such sale.
President Obama has stayed nearly totally quiet on the raising death toll in Libya. The only administration party speaking on the issue is Sect. of State Clinton.
The speculation is that if he condemns Kdaffi, Americans in the country will be risk. So he is playing low profile.
But conservative media critics are saying...he can condemn a American friend in the region, Mubarak' Eygpt. But cannot condem brutal Libyan dictator in Kdaffi.
Also FOX did a assessment of the US military presence in the Med. At this time......after all the events in Egypt.....the US has one destroyer in the med. A Battle Carier Fleet passes south into the Red Sea enroute to the Persian Gulf. So even the American in Libya or Egypt become threatened by the events.....he has deployed the US in manner that cannot help them. He cannot place a no fly zone over Libya, to keep the Libya Helo and aircraft from firing the protestors.
Bottom line. Not much he can do.....even if he had the will power to do it. He has given the revolutions to the internal and regional parties that will instigate the revolts to radical Islam.
They have captured 15 of the pirates that were sent to killed these 4 people on the Quest. They being the US Navy. What should happen to them? 4 were killed in the fight to retake the Quest.
They went out to take the Quest with 19 pirates. Any signifance to the number 19? First the number is much bigger than the 4 they knew were on the Quest. They wanted the Quest bad to send the number. Then you have 19 high jackers on 911. Seems that Muslim world likes for the US to remember that day.
So the choice seems to be bring them to the US for trial here or to take them to Kenya for justice there.
I say we sent them to GITMO....treat them like war prisoners....and look for intelligence on any nation state that aided them to make the Quest attack. Making that country complict to making the Quest attack and hold it accountable. Piracy has been used in war time for 100s of years.
Anyone that reads this can figure out just who that country is. It just sent two war ships thru the Gulf of Acaba and Indian Ocean water. Now into the Med. Maybe we have some ELINT that has them talking with the Somalian pirates. Just maybe those two ship had a sightings of the Quest first.....relayed the Quest location to them.
That is exactly what happened here. You want to sound like some accidental hijacking and murder. But you don't locate a small boat on a very big ocean without that type of navigation aids.
Having that kind of navigation aid....means that the piracy of the Quest and the murder of the four was a pre planned and pre mediated attack. That is what you really don't want to discuss here.
So Americans should have international waters close off to their passage because of dangers of Islamic pirates in the waters? Everyone I have read here so far points the fingers at foolish Americans for being in the water.
The waters were international waters. Open to maritime traffic from all countries.
Why not blame the men that pulled the triggers to kill 4 innocent men and women?
OH.....the Adam were sharing free bibles in the 3rd world countries. How could they be innocent? They were Christian missionaries espousing Christianity in the 3rd world. That makes them guilty of breaching bin Laden's western influences on Islam fatwa. Certainly that makes them worthy of being killed.
Why don't ya'll come out say what you really mean sometimes? Instead of beating around the political correctness bush.
The only foolish thing that the Adams did was to place their global sail for Christ online. With a moving maps showing their GPS location and destination. So the some Islamic terrorist would know the location of their vessel.
The Indian Ocean is a very big place. The small boats of the Somalian pirates don't carry even radars. But they do carry hand held GPS. So some how they knew were on the entire Indian Ocean the Adam's Quest was to make the piracy and then the murders. Someone gave them that GPS coordindate of the Adam's vessel. The Quest is not a big vessel. The Adams were targeted because of their Christian faith and the country they came from.jmo
If you are out killing people for a political or religous cause in a foreign country....that has not threatened you.....that is terrorism. Plain and simple.
This "one man this or that".....is just bunch European liberal speak...to justify murder. It is well over used and well wrong in most moral and legal contexts.
Hexbolloh became a political party only after it was well established as a terrorist group. Hamas respect of the Palestine political process...includes blowing up the Security building in Gaza city with a explosives that was tunneled under neath the buildings.
That you might consider this 'political', but I assure to those inside the security build that day it was more. Specially when Hamas fighters stormed into kill the remaining few 18 by execution. Were is the political discourse in that?
And Khomenie's Iran was busy....executing and torturing former Shah members and members of the Iranian Mushadeen. Evin prison became the most feared location in all of Iran.
A true empowered political party has enough respect of the opposition parties and groups....to allow them to live. A empowered terrorist group takes their lives.
He had two sons to do a hand power off to. Just as Gadaffi has today. Note who in Lybia is doing all the media talking...and likely is ordering to attack the street protestor. Pretty good chance that it is the Gadaffi sons.
They have alot to lose here if hes regime fails.
The same Sadam's Iraq. And one sniper bullet has never taken down three....unless it was a miracle shot from Joan of Arc.
ttom500 Forum Posts (10,523)
RE: Obama announced change! Obama created Change! Open ur eyes and see and Support the president!
HSD...you have 6000 Europeans trapped in Libya right now. Everyone Malta is asking were the Americans are. I just told them thatthe President sent the carrier fleet to south thru the Suez on a mission to the Persian Gulf or Indian Ocean. You don't mind do you?