Construction of what? Florida turned down the FED money on high speed rail. It was going to foreign companies anyways.
We have a better plan for high speed transport in the state that is billions less costly. covers the entire state, in stead of only the 1/2 of it. Is green friendly. And still make high paying jobs.
Just because in parts of the US, the European model on transportation, on education, on health care is being rejected. Don't get up tight......it is just because we have a better plan. That even the Presidentt has begun to acknowledge.
Serbia just popped up as a arms dealer to Qdaffi's Libya. Seems even under Milosovic....Serbia was selling to Libya. But even more recently, the new Serbia gov't has as well.
To the point were a ex-Serb President recently went to libya and to show support for Qdaffii. Or at least stand in a interview and TV Q and A with him.
If you think that you can get that kind of consensus in the UN, Chris? Because we (the US) been there and done that. GWB had a UN mandate to overflight Iraq. And now we learn that they got some bad intell on the Iraqi WMDs prior to the decision.....
You don't think that there is bad intell being circulated on Libya? Anyone here seen those African merc? Qdaffii's WMDs? Seen any victims of his torture chambers?
I would hate for the US jump in do something rash....
I think that the US should send ground forces in Libya....only after a full frigin manadate from the entire UN body supporting it. I mean a 203 votes positive to a US intervention. A positive vote by the Security Council. A head bow by the Sectretary General. And all 10,000 sectrataries in the UN building sign a petition asking the US to intervene. And if Castro and or Chaves says don't go....we don't go. If that is what the world wants. To control the US military. I
So in this case....I am totally for having the entire world standing behind the US military prior to any US force stepping on Libya soil.
Now doing Tanker refueling outside of Libya....for say NATO or Arab League aircraft...that is a different deal. That I can support without any hesitation.
But to put US ground forces in Libya....you better have a that petition from the UN signed by the UN janitor as well.
My position has always been that the US Operation Iraqi Freedom was a decaptitation operation again Sadam. That it was to secure human rights and democracy for the Iraqi people.
Because Sadam was just as bad or worse than Qdaffi.
Most all the of the Iraq oil has also gone to Europe. Of the 13 Iraqi oil contacts managed by the US CAP ....12 went to Europe and 1 went to the US.
If you listen to Qdaffii rants at present....that is exactly what he is saying. That he took on the Americans earlier and kept Libya safe from them.
The Libyan rebells are mis direct drug users.....(not that his African cot jewing mercs are much different)......sure enough when the dust settles in Liyba....somehow and someway this is all going to be the US fault.
Maybe from a wiki leaked cable saying...Qgaffii was nuttier that a X-Mas fruit cake....that inspired the rebells to action. Or President Obama's Cairo address gave them the courage to rebell.
But the fingers are going to point at Uncle Sam again.
By the way....I get a image of military fustrated humor thinking of a Marine Corp Gunny working with the Libyan rebells that are having trouble loading their weapons.
Chris, Chris....what happens after these force leave? Would a religious war break out? Would the African mercs comes back into the country as foreign fighters? Would a outside country send in IEDs to destroy the new Libyan gov't convoys and oil operations....
Look like the RED dragon is taking the same position to the ME rebellions and protests....as are Chavez and Castro.....article here from the Communist New Paper that aims at the street protestors and Libyan rebells. That the street protest were made by small number of people on the internet to make 'illegal meetings".
If I am not mistaken....China gets Qdaffi's Libyan Oil. So this position might be made from a economic position.
Besides calling the street protester/rebells....deluded and rukus makers. China Controlled media takes a off hand shot at its own protesters ....by saying...."However, we clearly recongnize that there are people inside and outside the country with ulterior motives who want to seize on the problem we have encountered over the course of development in order to cite unrest."
That is strange, Sparky. Nor were alQeada of Iraq castigated when they attacked civilian targets in Iraq.
Sparky, if the US does get involved in Libya....any chance that Qdaffii will be soon be made into a freedom fighter? And his mercs from Africa made into defenders of the faith? The bad guys in this inner country fight become street protester that were aid and abbetted by the US to over throw a long time gov't? What do you think that the odds of that is?
I would think Castro And Chavez are saying just about that now.
Blarneykite, Libyan oil is less than 1% of the US oil consumed. And.....since we just just tapped our shale oil 1.5t barrel western reserve with a new drilling method.....and ....have bateria bugs that eat C02 and excrete diesel (with out processing).....and since our consumption began to fall a couple of year ago.......
We don't need Libyan oil.....and pretty soon we will will need oil from the ME.....5 years time is the projection now to be energy independant.
Nice to see that we have all made friends and nearly rubbed out another Dude thread. This one is ending on a high note of agreement.
Maybe the events in Wisconsin or Libya do have a ripple effect. Kind of like President Obama economic stimulus package....pretty good ripple effect for those big bankers and auto companies.... but with unemployment still near 9% not much a wave for main street America.
The Wisconsin police finally got one of the runaway DEM legislators. They corner him as he came back to the Capitol to get some cloths (you cannot buys a shirt at store?).
I hear now they plan to hand cuff him into the chamber seat and make him sit in the sessions to hold the votes on the union bill.
I am surprise a DEM runaway senator was caught. Usually they are joggers and run miles each day. So had odds on him beating the doughnut boys. I did notice it took 8 of Wisconsin finest...to corner him.
Anyways....Abgail Adams saved George Washington painting when fleeing the White House ahead of the British. While fleeing DEM come back for shirt and pants to be caught. Says allot yes?
Hillary C....came out....not President Obama mind you.....to say that the US is trying humantarian aid first....before taking military action in Libya.
I wonder if they asked the Marines to tuck the Libyan rebells in at night as well.
It is quiet a change for the Marines that back President Jefferson day...were ordered to take the entire city of Tripoli. Now are being asked to provide humanitarin assistance to country. As we saw in Somolia....we can be doing a Peace keeping mission in the middle of a strifed and civil warring Muslim country....and still get into a gun fight and get people killed.
Anyways....the Marine are the Marines.....they will carry out their orders. If the President wants the rebells tucked into bed at night.....a Gunny....will do the job. Admittedly without the sweet good night kiss. And he will remind them to sleep with their AK-47 unloaded. Loaded they they tend to go off when you role over and snag the trigger.
According to source from AFP, Fidel Castro backs Chavez mediation plan for Libya
It is reported that Cuba's revolutionary leader and ex-president Castro, gave support today to a Venezuelan offer to mediate the crisis in Libya, calling it a "valiant effort" on the part of President Hugo Chavez.
The Venezuelan proposal has been flatly rejected by rebels who have taken the eastern half of Libya and are pressing in on Tripoli, where Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi has vowed a fight to the death.
Castro praised Chavez for "making a valiant effort to find a solution without a NATO intervention in Libya."
"Its possibilities of success would increase if a vast public movement could be created before and not after an intervention, so that the atrocious experience in Iraq is not repeated in other countries," he said.
Castro's remarks were made in an article published by the local press.
Members of ALBA, a grouping of leftist Latin American countries led by Venezuela and Cuba, planned to examine Chavez's proposal today in Caracas.
I think that we need to assess why Castro and Chavez want to mediate this crisis in Libya. Could it be both run gov't so closely alike to Qdaffi's Libyan gov't, that they both see and fear street protestor raising up in thier countries....with each and every successful revolution that occurs in the ME.
So? Mediate a ceasefire in Libya. Give Qdaffii time and resources to get the situation back under control. Those protecting their failing oppressive regeimes.
It is amazing that Castro....once the man for the Cuban people....today is the man that would keep the Libyan people oppressed with Qdaffi. And the Hugo Chavez....once the man for the Venesulan people.....is now the man that would keep the Libyan people from a more free Libya.
Talk about losing the legacy of their revolutions in the South America and Carribean. Castro and Chavez have again proved themselves to being for the oppressor and against the oppressed.
That al Jeezera...now there is a reputable news agency. alQeada agents are going to plant a IED on a road in Iraq. They call al Jazeera to sends new team to cover the detonation and killing.
Some how I don't even think FOX would stoop that low to get a story. I seem to remember a US news and media outlet more than once working with the local law enforcement to keep such event from happening.
But not al Jazeera. It was good stuff to show in middle east. But I can see where one might consider al Jazeera unbiazed. Without a political spin. Then again, bin Laden does release most of his video thru al Jazeera. I wonder why that is? Maybe because bin Laden knows that the political twists that al Jazeera is going to give on his tape will favor his Jhadid the most?
Antlo.....please....the US and NATO tankers flying refueling operation for Arab League planes and pilots....is not bullying anyone. If the Arab Leagues want to take on this peace keeping mission.....it is for the Arab League to decide. They did after all buy all that US and European military equipment. They might as well use it for a good purpose.
In doing so, its a cooperative effort between West and East to stabilize Libya...that is fast falling apart. No one here is pointing fingers, we leave that to our friends (like Hugo Chavez) south of the border to do.
I would rather have a media that was hungry for a story, than one that is laize faire and managed by the Gov't, Gini. The Fair Media Act is just one step closer to a gov't managed media.
Who are we kidding? The American sheep....also known as the little people...in some European circles....want to see the political discourse played out before them. Not in back room deals and not in behind the scenes negotiations.
The reason European countries can cut these back room deals and have their behind the scenes negotiations...is largely do to a media that sit backs and waits for the story to come. The European broadcasters that made in it the US....found out they have to go find the story...to dig for it.
See many CSPANs in Europe, Gini? Or other foreign countries? Here C-SPAN was made so that every major political decision and floor debate in could be shown to the American public. Yes, you have BBC Parliament, and similar broadcast for the Irish house. Both those are the only two public affairs broadcasting in all of Europe.
If you want to know or need to know the day to day working of the US government. Turn on CSPAN. There it is. In all its glory and foolishness.
Well there you go. Did you see the images of the Qdaffi torture facility that the protestors had taken? So you are telling us alot of here, in these few words, Antjo.
If Egypt and Tunasia let US and NATO tankers over their airspace. It is their airspace. Not yours or mine. If the Arab League...which has all ready distanced themselves to the Qdaffi regieme...sends in planes and pilots to do a No Fly Zone over Libya. It is thier aircraft to mission. Not your or mine.
Surely it has humanitarim benefits that from the UN to Mecca that would be appreciated. But only down in Peru....1000s of miles from were these is happening .Some one see a problem with such a compromise.
We are always happy to lend a hand to democracy building, Antjo.
I thought you would like the compromise solution here. Maybe you are pro Qdaffi....knowing that those Arab League No Zone would help to boot him out of power.
I think since you provoked me....I will send the idea to the White House. I was hoping Zues here.....would pick up the idea let it develop inside NATO.
But since you jumped in as you did.....I will pass the idea on to our people.
Maybe the best course of action here....is to let the Arab League nations....each with a Air Force. Do the no fly zone patrolling.
They can fly from neighboring Tunasia and Egypt. The US and NATO provide tanker refueling inside those countries. Outside of the range of Libyan air defenses.
Seems to me like a possible acceptable no fly to the Muslim world.
Heck Gini, we always been a little arrogant and rancious here. That it why you left for Italy.
How does media make a higher moral or ethical stance? It is their to state facts and give opinions.
If one is going to sucked into a ponzi sceme...who's fault is that? Gov't or the person that did not do their due diligence on the investment.
Hardly have two media voices in opposition limits freedom. It shows that a real flourishing democracy is in play. Were neither side has dominated the debate to were the other is subjected and oppressed. I suggest that real freedom exits in the debate of two side convicted to their position. Respectful of the other. Aware of the other. But not kow towing down to the other.
That is what liberals and DEM have attempted to do with the this fair media act. It is nothing more to force for profit business with a political position, into accepting and expressing a political view of opposition. In other words, forcing them to talk from both side of their media voice.
You want confusion and lose of freedom. There it is. Forcing equal time media ....assuming the Government truth meter...can wade thru the political rhetoric of 1000s of radio stations airing 24 7.....to determine....and then say....this last month....your station was 75% conservative in political opinion. We think that is "unfair". You need to make 50/50 or face a fine from our agency.
That is pure liberal thinking that you can control freedom of speech.
The real problem that liberals have with FOX....is when FOX exercises that freedom of speech to tell the truth. That is why it was such a big issue in the recent protest outside of FOX to called the FOX show hosts and contributers....liars. Ya'll just did not like the honest message of FOX.
I might have one little question here......if White House does not do anything about Libya (and perhaps the other ME Rebellion states)....is it fair to say that the White House left mess for the next administration to clean up?
They do have near to 2 years to re-stabilize the Middle East again.
So I do think that it would be a 'fair statement' to make.
Fox new suspended contract with Newt Grinrich and former Sen. Rick Santorium. Both are possible 2012 Presidential canidates and have a term of their agreement was to suspect the Fox Contract if they were to make runs.
Which bring us to Sarah Palin, also a Fox contributer....did not have her contract suspended. So seems Sarah maybe sitting out the 2012. Or is sitting in the background......wanting to use Fox exposure longer as a kick off run in 2012.
Shucks after the 2012 election is over with....former Presidentt Obama, VP Joe Biden. Sect of State Hillary Clinton can also be Fox Contributers.
Well QDaffi has told the US and NATO if they intervene, it will result in a blood bath. I wonder what he considers a blood bath, for if Libya has not been in one of recent.....
So President Obama and other western leaders are now doing a face off with Qdaffi and his two sons. First to blink loses. We are about to see how well the White House can coalition build. Or if that card is in the game at this point.
Also funny now how that WMD defanged KDaffii seems to have found a number of chemical and biologic weapons. The similarity of the Hussien family and Kdaffi cannot be missed. Hussien turned into a radical Muslim late in his years. One can expect a falling Kdaffi to do the same. Kdaffi already had a relationship with alQeada.
With the USS Enterprise and several Marine Corp helo ships coming back into the MED...from their Red Sea segment of the cruise....Libya seems to be next stop for them. First ashore in the liberty leave, might get a hot welcome. Wear body armor is my advice.
Which of course is going to scare the local rebells. They want technical assistance and someone to take the Libyan air force off their backs. Coming ashore in full body armor send s different message. Watch how the Marine come ashore boys.....my bet it is with out the body armor and the weapons. At the request of the President.
So.....we come to McCain suggested no fly zone over Libya. Why did not the UN mandate it in the sanctioning resolution? Face it....the UN has placed the US into the same position they did on post Gulf war Iraq.
Now if it is our decision to solve the Libyan air defenses....which are not insigificant....provide a no fly zone to protect the Libyan rebells....yet keep hands off the Libyan oil....which is going to Europe anyways.
Sure am glad that Obama froze the $30b of Libyan assets, that will operate the USS Enterprise off the Libya coast for.....2600 days. Or about 7 years. 1.12m per day for a carrier battle fleet cost. Austerity, remember....austerity.
The two Florida Sherriff's are angry with him, Conrad. They were hoping to cash in on the 30b in froozen Libyan assets by send their deputies to the region. I quess when they did the Libyan financial assessment in the White House....this sounded better than the PB oil spill clean up fund of 20b.
So for 30b, you too can have the USS Enterprise for a month. Water skiing anyone?
But being honest. Even Carl Rove applauded some of the recent White House decisions on Libya last night. So...you got to know where the far left and liberals are on this.
ttom500 Forum Posts (10,523)
RE: Politics of Obama administration are working ! Support the presindent toward economical Recovery !
Construction of what? Florida turned down the FED money on high speed rail. It was going to foreign companies anyways.We have a better plan for high speed transport in the state that is billions less costly. covers the entire state, in stead of only the 1/2 of it. Is green friendly. And still make high paying jobs.
Just because in parts of the US, the European model on transportation, on education, on health care is being rejected.
Don't get up tight......it is just because we have a better plan.
That even the Presidentt has begun to acknowledge.