Towering inferno in England ( Archived) (258)

Jun 23, 2017 7:41 AM CST Towering inferno in England
jac_the_gripper
jac_the_gripperjac_the_gripperTonyrefail, South Glamorgan, Wales UK24 Threads 5,363 Posts
I'm going to echo Soph's words, Lookin.

You idiot.
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Jun 23, 2017 9:00 AM CST Towering inferno in England
sophiasummer
sophiasummersophiasummerNorthland, New Zealand112 Threads 6,528 Posts
Thank you again for an up date hug
Holding your own therehandshake

thumbs up
Sohie
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Jun 23, 2017 9:15 AM CST Towering inferno in England
sophiasummer
sophiasummersophiasummerNorthland, New Zealand112 Threads 6,528 Posts
HexagonKeySet: Plainly then, English is not your first language and / or you have significant weaknesses in comprehension ?

You apparently can't bear to read accurately what I've said about appropriateness and timeliness ... then that's NOT my problem but yours.

Another of your frequently employed Yac-O-Strats !

Says it all when you think it's 'OK' to throw those unfortunate people who have experienced some of the most unimaginable traumas into the clutches of inexperienced trainees ... you could be poster girl for the Psychobabble Industry Foundation.

It's simply not the case that 'well meaningness ' produces a good outcome ...



Have you Hex always lived in New Zealand?
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Jun 23, 2017 1:37 PM CST Towering inferno in England
Jac, how far from Grenfell tower do you live? It's in your neck of the woods isn't it?
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Jun 23, 2017 1:54 PM CST Towering inferno in England
jac_the_gripper
jac_the_gripperjac_the_gripperTonyrefail, South Glamorgan, Wales UK24 Threads 5,363 Posts
You're welcome, Soph. hug
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Jun 23, 2017 2:34 PM CST Towering inferno in England
jac_the_gripper
jac_the_gripperjac_the_gripperTonyrefail, South Glamorgan, Wales UK24 Threads 5,363 Posts
It depends on your perspective, Ooby.

By US standards, it's in my neck of the woods, I'm guessing about 100 miles East.

By UK standards, it's miles away in another country.

I'm fortunate in living in semi-rural Wales, but I do privately rent and always have done.

I have never lived in a property which I have considered safe.

In the last property I rented for myself and my daughter, I found a nail in the floor boards which had gone through a gas pipe. It had been there for so long, there had been a catalytic reaction between the nail and the pipe. We had lived with it for four years before I discovered it.

I thought the gaseous whiff which I kept smelling was from the boiler, which also turned out to be illegal, carbon monoxide fumes coming back into the property from a flue which didn't meet legal standards.

I suspect the only reason my daughter and I weren't blown to kingdom come along with our neighbours, is my propensity for leaving windows open in all weathers.

That was nearly twenty years ago and I still wake at the slightest wiff of smoke, whether that's a garden fire, a neighbour's log burner, or more recently a factory which burned down about 10 miles away.

Yesterday I started out of sleep at the smell of my daughter making toast when she came home from work. I have become a human smoke alarm, the type which goes off if you so much as burn a crumb.

I taught my granddaughter how to get out of the house in the event of a fire long before this Grenfell disaster.

If none of this sounds like regular behaviour, I'm pretty sure it's the new normal.

I guess you were right after all - this disaster is in my neck of the woods and so many others' as well.
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Jun 23, 2017 4:43 PM CST Towering inferno in England
Jac, I wouldn't consider 100 miles being in your neighborhood, that's pretty far by any standard.
Wow, a nail in a gas pipe, whoever did that is a total idiot. Good thing you have a sensitive nose.

From many of the pictures I've seen on this catastrophe, it appears the area where this tower went up in flames went through a period of gentrification whereby the upper classes have pressured the poor and non white residents into very high density quarters like this 24 story tower building. Probably nobody cares what happens to them, they are probably viewed as a drain on the economy and if a 100 or so get wiped out that's 100 less mouths the state has to feed and house etc. I'm sure the very same view exists in any country with a large "On the Dole" population.

This exact same thing happened to my family when I was a kid. We were poor and the owner of the building couldn't increase the rent (due to overly restrictive rent control laws) as the cost of living went up. He had no choice but to evict everybody (40 families) and renovate the buildings. Of course legally we were given first choice for an apt in the new building (at triple the rent). We wound up in a building like the one that burned down in Glenfell.
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Jun 23, 2017 6:18 PM CST Towering inferno in England
jac_the_gripper
jac_the_gripperjac_the_gripperTonyrefail, South Glamorgan, Wales UK24 Threads 5,363 Posts
You:re right Ooby, the Borough of Kensington and Chelsea has the highest disparity of wealth of any borough, most of the population in the top 10th percentile and the many living in the Tower block area in the bottom 10th percentile.

Grenfell Tower will have originally been entirely council owned for the benefit of low income families being able to rent affordable, lifelong, accommodation.

Margaret Thatcher decided to sell off the council housing stock and made it illegal for the councils to use the money to build more social housing.

My parents benefitted from this scheme, rent paid being taken into consideration in the asking price. They were quite cross that the condition of the property was also taken into account and having scrimped and saved to do work on the property, they ended up paying more for it. The increase in the property's worth since they bought it however, is obscene. If they had chosen to sell up, they would have made a killing.

So, Grenfell tower at the time of the fire consisted of a mix of properties. Some were still council owned, some were privately owned probably by elderly people like my parents who bought when the properties were going for a song.

I suspect a good sized proportion were privately rented, however. These properties were recently selling for around the quarter of a million mark. Anyone who has that kind of money isn't going to buy a property of that price in that area for themselves. They buy to rent and as an investment.

The private rents were around £400 a week. Some of the tenants survived the fire because they were working night shifts, but in the kind of jobs where they would likely rely on benefit subsidies to meet the extortionate rent.

People living in poverty are so often derogated for sponging off the state, but any housing benefit paid by the government for privately rented properties is in effect a payment to rich people.

If you have tenants in receipt of housing benefits, the government in effect pay your mortgage, pay you a nice income after the mortgage is paid off for doing next to nothing and you get the capital of the property at the end of it.

If you don:t earn enough to obtain a mortgage, you get to rent sub-standard properties for more than the cost of the mortgage, have short-term contracts and over a lifetime probably pay out enough to buy two properties, or more, but have no capital at the end of it.

Grenfell Tower will have been a money spinner for the rich feeding off the poor and the government. The refurbishments were penny pinching to the point of possibly not meeting building and fire safety regulations.

There has also been much criticism of the refurbishment planning records where the emphasis was not on the ecological value of the insulating cladding, but on improving the aesthetics of the building for the benefit of Kensington and Chelsea's wealthy residents.

But hey, that's business and the art of rolling with collateral damage is underway.
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Jun 23, 2017 6:26 PM CST Towering inferno in England
Lookin4missright
Lookin4missrightLookin4missrightmelbourne, Victoria Australia400 Threads 24,032 Posts
jac_the_gripper: I'm going to echo Soph's words, Lookin.

You idiot.


Roger that laugh thumbs up
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Jun 23, 2017 6:35 PM CST Towering inferno in England
jac_the_gripper
jac_the_gripperjac_the_gripperTonyrefail, South Glamorgan, Wales UK24 Threads 5,363 Posts
I suspect you'd rodger anything in a skirt, Lookin.
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Jun 23, 2017 6:53 PM CST Towering inferno in England
Lookin4missright
Lookin4missrightLookin4missrightmelbourne, Victoria Australia400 Threads 24,032 Posts
jac_the_gripper: I suspect you'd rodger anything in a skirt, Lookin.



Nah i'm all talk blah blah blah blah blah have'nt been with a woman for over approx 14mths

I'm playing hard to get snooty

laugh

crying
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Jun 24, 2017 4:06 AM CST Towering inferno in England
jac_the_gripper
jac_the_gripperjac_the_gripperTonyrefail, South Glamorgan, Wales UK24 Threads 5,363 Posts
Camden council has evacuated five of it's tower blocks overnight amounting to some 800 households.

Most residents became aware of the evacuation through the BBC news on the television, despite reassurances in a meeting with the council yesterday that they were safe in their homes. Many were given just 5 minutes to pack, including very elderly residents who grabbed their essential medication and little else.

Residents were urged to stay with family, or friends where they would be more comfortable.

Some were placed in hotels (read: one room for a family, bed and breakfast, shared bathroom facilities, no kitchen facilities), but many were allocated closely packed together air mattresses with one blanket and one pillow in public buildings. Food and water was available.

One woman was interviewed by reporters as she waited for a taxi with her three young children at 4am in the morning.

Whist many residents were angry, distrust in of the authorities and confused, many were grateful of the safety measures and were prepared to make the best of it.

It's expected to be two to four weeks before residents will be able to return home.
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Jun 24, 2017 4:38 AM CST Towering inferno in England
Kalpataru
KalpataruKalpatarusomewhere close to, Jakarta Indonesia1,083 Posts
I can only hope that none of highrise buildings in my country has flammable cladding..

Great updates, Jacs! thumbs up bouquet
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Jun 24, 2017 4:50 AM CST Towering inferno in England
jac_the_gripper
jac_the_gripperjac_the_gripperTonyrefail, South Glamorgan, Wales UK24 Threads 5,363 Posts
There has been criticism that Grenfell Tower survivors will not be exempt from bedroom tax, or benefit caps as they are rehoused.

This means that if they are placed in accommodation deemed too large for their family, the shortfall in benefits will either have to come out of their food money, or they will build up rent arrears and risk eviction.

This can happen to non-working families and those on a low income. It's particularly difficult in areas where rents are high, like the London.

I've been in this position myself as a lone parent with a low income. Although rents are high here, they're not as extortionate as they are in London. I just got very, very thin avoiding rent arrears and didn't end up homeless.

I remember going to bed hungry every night and waking up every morning shaking with exhaustion for a good two, or three years as I worked towards improving my situation. I don't think non-living wages and the poverty traps are ethical, but I was young and strong at the time.

Is it appropriate to do this to the survivors of Grenfell?
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Jun 24, 2017 5:24 AM CST Towering inferno in England
jac_the_gripper
jac_the_gripperjac_the_gripperTonyrefail, South Glamorgan, Wales UK24 Threads 5,363 Posts
Thanks, Kal. hug

Is there the same kind of need for insulation in Indonesia as there is here?

It would be worth checking the fire safety of any tower block building before moving into one, though.
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Jun 24, 2017 5:54 AM CST Towering inferno in England
sounds to me......your dammed for doing right.........and dammed for not doing right..........where does one stand.....??????...........
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Jun 24, 2017 6:45 AM CST Towering inferno in England
truheart1941: sounds to me......your dammed for doing right.........and dammed for not doing right..........where does one stand.....??????...........
........who can answer this........: I have a loaf of bread......you see 2 children...crying for food.......one a Christian..and one a muslim......who should I feed....????.......my answer is.....both..........but as a muslim........do I think......why feed the infidel.....and give the whole loaf to the muslim child......because he is special.........no one is special......to give shows human.....just to take without giving.....is inhuman........learn IT.......jmo..............
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Jun 24, 2017 6:47 AM CST Towering inferno in England
jac_the_gripper
jac_the_gripperjac_the_gripperTonyrefail, South Glamorgan, Wales UK24 Threads 5,363 Posts
What do you think has been done right, or is right about this situation, Tru?

As for where people stand - in the street in in the middle of the night, it seems.
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Jun 24, 2017 6:57 AM CST Towering inferno in England
jac_the_gripper
jac_the_gripperjac_the_gripperTonyrefail, South Glamorgan, Wales UK24 Threads 5,363 Posts
I'm not sure what you're saying with your second post.

Are you saying that a Muslim person wouldn't share the bread between the two hungry children?

If you are saying that, then you plainly haven't spent any time with any Muslim people.
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Jun 24, 2017 7:15 AM CST Towering inferno in England
jac_the_gripper: What do you think has been done right, or is right about this situation, Tru?

As for where people stand - in the street in in the middle of the night, it seems.
hi Jac......the thought of all thos peple/children....etc....in that tower block dying , is dreadful......an accident by all accounts......a fridge caught fire......and bad cladding.....just to save a few pounds.......we in Britain....all live by the same rules....we are ALL....vunerable.....who live in high rise buildings......regardless of religion......I just hope....all muslims can understand this...and not just the few...........
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