US is negotiating with Taliban (433)
BannerMan53: What would you like to know ?
Nothing
Bane6: Your so hell bent on conspiracy theories do your own searching.
Of course you'll pick and choose whatever relates to your posts.
Of course you'll pick and choose whatever relates to your posts.
I am not hell bent on conspiracy theory, what I am saying there is much more to it then what it has been told - - - - And if you are not prepared to show me where your info comes from your coments have no merit, it is like asking to believe everything bible says, simply cos I am suppose to take some priests word for it - - - - Come on, give me a brake - - - -
54xmax: I am not hell bent on conspiracy theory, what I am saying there is much more to it then what it has been told - - - - And if you are not prepared to show me where your info comes from your coments have no merit, it is like asking to believe everything bible says, simply cos I am suppose to take some priests word for it - - - - Come on, give me a brake - - - -
Same goes for yours, truth.org, alex jones gimme a break
Bane6: Same goes for yours, truth.org, alex jones gimme a break
What they don't understand about Alex Jones is he is exploiting them....that's how he makes his living....exploiting small minds!!
54xmax: And if you are not prepared to show me where your info comes from your coments have no merit, it is like asking to believe everything bible says, simply cos I am suppose to take some priests word for it - - - - Come on, give me a brake - - - -
As I stated last night, once you provide some proof of your contentions from credible sources, I shall refute them and show my sources that I tear your stuff up with. As for now, your stuff is only conspiracy and has no basis in reality.
Albertaghost: As I stated last night, once you provide some proof of your contentions from credible sources, I shall refute them and show my sources that I tear your stuff up with. As for now, your stuff is only conspiracy and has no basis in reality.
Just some of the links - - - - - -
54xmax: http://digwithin.net/2011/06/19/the-explosive-nature-of-nanothermite/
Just some of the links - - - - - -
OMFG!Just some of the links - - - - - -
Conrad73: OMFG!
Of course . . . . . .
54xmax: http://digwithin.net/2011/06/19/the-explosive-nature-of-nanothermite/
Just some of the links - - - - - -
Just some of the links - - - - - -
Oh my, prisonplanet, truth.org. alex jones, like I said another conspiracy theory.
Bane6: Oh my, prisonplanet, truth.org. alex jones, like I said another conspiracy theory.
They, prison planet, truth.org, Alex J, are laughing too...all the way to the bank!
it shows how cowardly the US is when they start to cave in to terrorists and thugs. also it shows how weak we are. in my opinion the taliban are nothing more than crazed mad dogs that should be taken out
leigh2154: They, prison planet, truth.org, Alex J, are laughing too...all the way to the bank!
By the way I don't put to much stock on this Alex Jones character, he seems to me as to much of a "I want to be in the centre of attention guy" - - - who is lifting up his ego, everything about him screams exactly that
john12196341: it shows how cowardly the US is when they start to cave in to terrorists and thugs. also it shows how weak we are. in my opinion the taliban are nothing more than crazed mad dogs that should be taken out
You think.the USA talks all big and bad now they wish to take the cowards way out.
Don't forget john that Obama thinks that this will better his poll rates on his job performance.
What a joke that is.It's all political.
54xmax: By the way I don't put to much stock on this Alex Jones character, he seems to me as to much of a "I want to be in the centre of attention guy" - - - who is lifting up his ego, everything about him screams exactly that
Whew, I am glad to hear that Max.......for a minute there, I thought you were buying in to his propaganda.....Understand my friend, he makes money, lots of money, doing what he does..
Research contributions when you have time....Remember Jim Baker and Tammy Faye?...same principle.....
leigh2154: Whew, I am glad to hear that Max.......for a minute there, I thought you were buying in to his propaganda.....Understand my friend, he makes money, lots of money, doing what he does.. Research contributions when you have time....Remember Jim Baker and Tammy Faye?...same principle.....
Yeah I can recognize big loud mouths - - - - - Even when one is watching documentaries, one can see what is pure propaganda and what documentaries could be objective, and after I watch them I go checking the information on my own, about what I heard - - - - allot of things can be presented in different ways by editing, and simply taking them out of context. If something is interesting enough I do the research it is kind of my hobby to see what is truth and what's BS
john12196341: it shows how cowardly the US is when they start to cave in to terrorists and thugs. also it shows how weak we are. in my opinion the taliban are nothing more than crazed mad dogs that should be taken out
why do you say that its is cowardly to negotiate the brits did it with the IRA oh and look peace in northern ireland the french did it with the Algerians and oh look peace the russiand did it with the Chetchens and oh look mostly peace negotiating works peace must be the nd goal and America abd britain must bring home their troops54xmax: Yeah I can recognize big loud mouths - - - - - Even when one is watching documentaries, one can see what is pure propaganda and what documentaries could be objective, and after I watch them I go checking the information on my own, about what I heard - - - - allot of things can be presented in different ways by editing, and simply taking them out of context. If something is interesting enough I do the research it is kind of my hobby to see what is truth and what's BS
That is exactly what you should do Max, but if you know this, why do you quote Jones here, in thread?....Is it just for the "piss people off" aspect?.....Jones has a bad rep, quoting him and some of your other sources just undermines you credibility...You are too intelligent for that!
Tomcats2: why do you say that its is cowardly to negotiate the brits did it with the IRA oh and look peace in northern ireland the french did it with the Algerians and oh look peace the russiand did it with the Chetchens and oh look mostly peace negotiating works peace must be the nd goal and America abd britain must bring home their troops
"peace" is an interesting concept; a piece here; a piece there and when one has enough pieces, you are supposed to end up with Peace...very confusing when it doesn't work that way.
Peace demands solutions, but we never reach living solutions; we only work toward them.
A fixed solution is, by definition, a dead solution. The trouble with Peace is that it tends to punish mistakes instead of rewarding brilliance by those who negotiated the Peace. However...the usual short term expediencies always fail in the long term, as it surely must with any 'peace accord' when dealing with the Taliban; heirs to those so called 'mountain savages' as one referred to them. Not once have any invader left Afghanistan with anything remotely resembling 'an honourable exit; or 'withdrawal'; a defeat by any other name is still a defeat and over time all efforts and works along with all the sacrifices by the invaders will blow away in the dust storms while the Taliban and their heirs continue on just as if no invader had ever come. Who ever dares again to come, will find the Afghans even more deadly.
There is absolutely nothing morally sacred, or fixed eternally in marble, about a county's territorial borders or form of government that a country must take. Rather, the only sensible justification for preserving---or changing them is that in doing so would clearly provide the greatest amount of liberty and well being to the people who actually live there. It will be their interpretation and understanding of those concepts that will prevail; NOT any former invader nor any non Islamic perceptions.
54xmax: http://digwithin.net/2011/06/19/the-explosive-nature-of-nanothermite/
Just some of the links - - - - - -
Just some of the links - - - - - -
I believe i asked for CREDIBLE sources, not incredible ones. Sides, go back and see what I was asking you to substantiate.
June 23rd, 2011
02:13 PM ET
BLITZER’S BLOG: Negotiating with the Taliban
WASHINGTON (CNN) - President Obama says he wants to negotiate a peace settlement with the Taliban, the group in Afghanistan that harbored al Qaeda in the years leading up to 9/11. “So as we strengthen the Afghan government and security forces, America will join initiatives that reconcile the Afghan people, including the Taliban,” he said in his Wednesday evening White House address.
He then spelled out these conditions for such negotiations: “They must be led by the Afghan government, and those who want to be part of a peaceful Afghanistan must break from al Qaeda, abandon violence, and abide by the Afghan constitution.”
President Obama said he thought progress on this front can be made.
For my part, I am not so sure.
Even if the Taliban leadership were to break from al Qaeda and abandon violence - they certainly have not done that yet - I suspect they will never accept Article 22 of the Afghan constitution which says: “Any kind of discrimination and distinction between citizens of Afghanistan shall be forbidden. The citizens of Afghanistan, man and woman, have equal rights and duties before the law.”
All of us remember what life for women in Afghanistan was like before U.S. forces removed the Taliban from power after 9/11. Afghan women and girls now have rights they did not have before.
Based on what Afghan women must still endure in those areas under Taliban control, I have no reason to believe the Taliban have changed their views. I suspect the hard-core true believers in the Taliban probably never will.
I hope I’m wrong and the President is right.
02:13 PM ET
BLITZER’S BLOG: Negotiating with the Taliban
WASHINGTON (CNN) - President Obama says he wants to negotiate a peace settlement with the Taliban, the group in Afghanistan that harbored al Qaeda in the years leading up to 9/11. “So as we strengthen the Afghan government and security forces, America will join initiatives that reconcile the Afghan people, including the Taliban,” he said in his Wednesday evening White House address.
He then spelled out these conditions for such negotiations: “They must be led by the Afghan government, and those who want to be part of a peaceful Afghanistan must break from al Qaeda, abandon violence, and abide by the Afghan constitution.”
President Obama said he thought progress on this front can be made.
For my part, I am not so sure.
Even if the Taliban leadership were to break from al Qaeda and abandon violence - they certainly have not done that yet - I suspect they will never accept Article 22 of the Afghan constitution which says: “Any kind of discrimination and distinction between citizens of Afghanistan shall be forbidden. The citizens of Afghanistan, man and woman, have equal rights and duties before the law.”
All of us remember what life for women in Afghanistan was like before U.S. forces removed the Taliban from power after 9/11. Afghan women and girls now have rights they did not have before.
Based on what Afghan women must still endure in those areas under Taliban control, I have no reason to believe the Taliban have changed their views. I suspect the hard-core true believers in the Taliban probably never will.
I hope I’m wrong and the President is right.
solitare: "peace" is an interesting concept; a piece here; a piece there and when one has enough pieces, you are supposed to end up with Peace...very confusing when it doesn't work that way.
Peace demands solutions, but we never reach living solutions; we only work toward them.
A fixed solution is, by definition, a dead solution. The trouble with Peace is that it tends to punish mistakes instead of rewarding brilliance by those who negotiated the Peace. However...the usual short term expediencies always fail in the long term, as it surely must with any 'peace accord' when dealing with the Taliban; heirs to those so called 'mountain savages' as one referred to them. Not once have any invader left Afghanistan with anything remotely resembling 'an honourable exit; or 'withdrawal'; a defeat by any other name is still a defeat and over time all efforts and works along with all the sacrifices by the invaders will blow away in the dust storms while the Taliban and their heirs continue on just as if no invader had ever come. Who ever dares again to come, will find the Afghans even more deadly.
There is absolutely nothing morally sacred, or fixed eternally in marble, about a county's territorial borders or form of government that a country must take. Rather, the only sensible justification for preserving---or changing them is that in doing so would clearly provide the greatest amount of liberty and well being to the people who actually live there. It will be their interpretation and understanding of those concepts that will prevail; NOT any former invader nor any non Islamic perceptions.
Peace demands solutions, but we never reach living solutions; we only work toward them.
A fixed solution is, by definition, a dead solution. The trouble with Peace is that it tends to punish mistakes instead of rewarding brilliance by those who negotiated the Peace. However...the usual short term expediencies always fail in the long term, as it surely must with any 'peace accord' when dealing with the Taliban; heirs to those so called 'mountain savages' as one referred to them. Not once have any invader left Afghanistan with anything remotely resembling 'an honourable exit; or 'withdrawal'; a defeat by any other name is still a defeat and over time all efforts and works along with all the sacrifices by the invaders will blow away in the dust storms while the Taliban and their heirs continue on just as if no invader had ever come. Who ever dares again to come, will find the Afghans even more deadly.
There is absolutely nothing morally sacred, or fixed eternally in marble, about a county's territorial borders or form of government that a country must take. Rather, the only sensible justification for preserving---or changing them is that in doing so would clearly provide the greatest amount of liberty and well being to the people who actually live there. It will be their interpretation and understanding of those concepts that will prevail; NOT any former invader nor any non Islamic perceptions.
An interesting post Solitare....you like to get creative.....Peace is an interesting concept, not a piece here, a piece there, everywhere a piece, piece, however....
Perhaps peace is not even applicable.... Perhaps peace does not demand solutions, only change... Is a compromise a solution or a change?...Is quitting a solution or a change?...
A fixed solution is only a dead solution if every facet/part of that which is fixed remains permanently stagnant or unchanged....It does not apply here......
leigh2154: An interesting post Solitare....you like to get creative.....Peace is an interesting concept, not a piece here, a piece there, everywhere a piece, piece, however....
Perhaps peace is not even applicable.... Perhaps peace does not demand solutions, only change... Is a compromise a solution or a change?...Is quitting a solution or a change?...
A fixed solution is only a dead solution if every facet/part of that which is fixed remains permanently stagnant or unchanged....It does not apply here......
Perhaps peace is not even applicable.... Perhaps peace does not demand solutions, only change... Is a compromise a solution or a change?...Is quitting a solution or a change?...
A fixed solution is only a dead solution if every facet/part of that which is fixed remains permanently stagnant or unchanged....It does not apply here......
Leigh, you're right, at least about being 'creative' Paper versions of 'Peace' is so simple; it is indeed made up of many pieces here and there and sounds almost infallible...until one tries to apply the paper formulas to the real physicality of out world. I guess that is my old frustrations at not entering the diplomatic corps as was my direction once upon a time but that urge to be a 'pirate'/renegade with no allegiance to any State was just too strong to resist; it became a game of 'diplomacy is still a form of warfare by other means' as von Clausewitz insinuated in his famous dictum, "On War".
Solutions have dates of expiry as all solutions are products and changes are fluid leading to stagnant pools or an ocean of turbulence. Change is never in itself a solution without an agreed upon goal(S).
The overriding principle here is appreciation of an 'alien mind set' which isn't grasped by the collective West; 'When I am weaker than you, I ask for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedoms and its meanings because that is according to my principles'
There are no laws of nature, unchanging and inexorable. Our world; our entire Universe even, presents only changing relationships which are sometimes seen as laws by short lived awareness. The fleshy sensoria which we call self are ephemera withering on the blaze of infinite possibilities, fleetingly aware of temporary conditions which must confine our activities and changes as our activities change. If one must label the absolute, we must use its proper name: Temporary.
Enemies strengthen you...allies weaken. In the world of politics the problem of leadership is inevitable: who will dare to play God, but the art of government is the mastery of chaos. It is an art no longer mastered by any State or religion in the West.
(methinks we need to share a couple of bottles....
)solitare: Leigh, you're right, at least about being 'creative' Paper versions of 'Peace' is so simple; it is indeed made up of many pieces here and there and sounds almost infallible...until one tries to apply the paper formulas to the real physicality of out world. I guess that is my old frustrations at not entering the diplomatic corps as was my direction once upon a time but that urge to be a 'pirate'/renegade with no allegiance to any State was just too strong to resist; it became a game of 'diplomacy is still a form of warfare by other means' as von Clausewitz insinuated in his famous dictum, "On War".
Solutions have dates of expiry as all solutions are products and changes are fluid leading to stagnant pools or an ocean of turbulence. Change is never in itself a solution without an agreed upon goal(S).
The overriding principle here is appreciation of an 'alien mind set' which isn't grasped by the collective West; 'When I am weaker than you, I ask for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedoms and its meanings because that is according to my principles'
There are no laws of nature, unchanging and inexorable. Our world; our entire Universe even, presents only changing relationships which are sometimes seen as laws by short lived awareness. The fleshy sensoria which we call self are ephemera withering on the blaze of infinite possibilities, fleetingly aware of temporary conditions which must confine our activities and changes as our activities change. If one must label the absolute, we must use its proper name: Temporary.
Enemies strengthen you...allies weaken. In the world of politics the problem of leadership is inevitable: who will dare to play God, but the art of government is the mastery of chaos. It is an art no longer mastered by any State or religion in the West.
(methinks we need to share a couple of bottles.... )
Solutions have dates of expiry as all solutions are products and changes are fluid leading to stagnant pools or an ocean of turbulence. Change is never in itself a solution without an agreed upon goal(S).
The overriding principle here is appreciation of an 'alien mind set' which isn't grasped by the collective West; 'When I am weaker than you, I ask for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedoms and its meanings because that is according to my principles'
There are no laws of nature, unchanging and inexorable. Our world; our entire Universe even, presents only changing relationships which are sometimes seen as laws by short lived awareness. The fleshy sensoria which we call self are ephemera withering on the blaze of infinite possibilities, fleetingly aware of temporary conditions which must confine our activities and changes as our activities change. If one must label the absolute, we must use its proper name: Temporary.
Enemies strengthen you...allies weaken. In the world of politics the problem of leadership is inevitable: who will dare to play God, but the art of government is the mastery of chaos. It is an art no longer mastered by any State or religion in the West.
(methinks we need to share a couple of bottles.... )
Peace is "only" simple on paper Solitare....And, it can consist of many pieces as you say or one piece as I say...Take for example my allegiance to Country....One piece, for me a necessity....This does not mean I am in agreement with each and every choice my country makes...surely you understand this...
As opposed to an "alien mind set" I prefer "no mind set"....it is very useful since there are no laws of nature, only ever changing relationships.....
I think we should begin with no less than a case of wine...we may find ourselves locked in conversation for a week or two....
Like it or not, the Taliban rule the major part of Afghanistan.
And personally, I think they need a good talking to.
And personally, I think they need a good talking to.
bodleing: Like it or not, the Taliban rule the major part of Afghanistan.
And personally, I think they need a good talking to.
And personally, I think they need a good talking to.
And possibly a good slap on the bottom! 
Taliban was created with some help from US army, they were needing these men for took of the Sovietics from there (ever about money).
So, Osama and others had been trainned by US army and CIA.
I think is very wise they talk now and change this situation,is better then make WAR.
GIVE PEACE A CHANCE !!
serrambi: Taliban was created with some help from US army, they were needing these men for took of the Sovietics from there (ever about money).
So, Osama and others had been trainned by US army and CIA.
I think is very wise they talk now and change this situation,is better then make WAR.
GIVE PEACE A CHANCE !!
So, Osama and others had been trainned by US army and CIA.
I think is very wise they talk now and change this situation,is better then make WAR.
GIVE PEACE A CHANCE !!
Hi Serrambi...you are diplomatic and wise!
john12196341: it shows how cowardly the US is when they start to cave in to terrorists and thugs. also it shows how weak we are. in my opinion the taliban are nothing more than crazed mad dogs that should be taken out
Two points:
1 - No Military in the world has ever beaten a 'terrorist' group. It is impossible since they depend on being clandestine. Ask the Brits about their 800 year experience with the Irish - they NEVER beat the IRA, as Tony Blair said in the British parliament, "We will never beat the IRA because we don't know who they are!" so they negotiated a Peace Agreement
2. - America has NEVER won a war on its own - all talk and NO results - so who are you suggesting should take out the "ghost" - Taliban?
Trealach01: Two points:
1 - No Military in the world has ever beaten a 'terrorist' group. It is impossible since they depend on being clandestine. Ask the Brits about their 800 year experience with the Irish - they NEVER beat the IRA, as Tony Blair said in the British parliament, "We will never beat the IRA because we don't know who they are!" so they negotiated a Peace Agreement
2. - America has NEVER won a war on its own - all talk and NO results - so who are you suggesting should take out the "ghost" - Taliban?
1 - No Military in the world has ever beaten a 'terrorist' group. It is impossible since they depend on being clandestine. Ask the Brits about their 800 year experience with the Irish - they NEVER beat the IRA, as Tony Blair said in the British parliament, "We will never beat the IRA because we don't know who they are!" so they negotiated a Peace Agreement
2. - America has NEVER won a war on its own - all talk and NO results - so who are you suggesting should take out the "ghost" - Taliban?
King Philips War, The First Barbary War (Tripoli), The Second Barbary War, The Texas Revolution, The Mexican-American War, The Philippine-American War.........don't these count?
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My answer on first link - - - - -
Maybe if they would have killed him, they would actually prove that "loose change" has some merit, but by doing nothing, they can easily let people that believe the official story to do their work for them, cos in the end, not doing anything, enables them to simply let all this thing to blow over with time - - - -
My answer on both links - - - there is a difference between "truthers" that debunk official claims point by point, and in these two links where both writers say, they will not do it cos it is not necessary - - - - These two things alone make me doubt the statements of those two people - - - - - My opinion is based on reports of people that actually made statements from their area of expertise.