Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet (845)
i belive that israel has the right to defend itself and for th ose to bash them verbally are either to bias against them and belive that they don't have the right to exist or do not have the whole truth
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rickjc25: So, Israel commits an act of piracy and that is self defense? Israel tries to sell nuclear weapons to South Africa and that is "self-defense"? Fourteen Israelis die in the latest Gaza conflict and 1400 Palestinians die, many of them women and children. Self-defense. Access to water and electricity is cut off in Gaza--in self-defense, right? Settlements are allowed to expand and Palestinian homes and orchards are bulldozed. Self defense, again? Israel has refused to abide by many of the Treaties or Peace Accords they have signed. Don't tell me Self defense, right? Israel has violated over 60 UN Resolutions but Bush illegally invades Iraq for violating 1 UN Resolution, Let me guess, Self Defense again right? If it weren't for pro-Israel money flowing into US campaign coffers, Israel would be hung out to dry as South Africa was (and deservedly so).
I believe that Israel has the right to live peacefully but Israel has violated the Geneva Convention repeatedly and Israel is a Rogue State.
I believe that Israel has the right to live peacefully but Israel has violated the Geneva Convention repeatedly and Israel is a Rogue State.
Yes you have very good points however one sided they are.
Yes Isreal have been heavy handed on many occasion but look at their position, surrounded on allsided by those that that have said the Isreali people dont have a right to live and will do anything to wipe them out. Isreal feel they cant let up or make a mistake or they will be wiped out.
Thats where the heavy handedness comes from and war hardening.
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I wish I could spell Israel....
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Conrad73: Still wonder what happened to Jesus,our OP?
Another Paid One?
Another Paid One?
If there's any money to be had it's on your side of the issue Conrad.
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RayfromUSA: If there's any money to be had it's on your side of the issue Conrad.
Yep,that's why OP is in Paris,Alsace!
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Albertaghost: Hamas is a terrorist group and, it is not up to Israel to elevate them to Nelson Mandela like ANC status. For you to associate the two in any form, even with speculation is farcical to say the least.
Both organisations have terrorist backrounds and have formed democratically elected governments. Both have fought against oppression and discrimination. Comparable in many aspects.
Albertaghost: Myself and George Bush disagree with you as democracy is always a good thing, no matter what the result. That said, Hamas is still a terrorist organization who have brought about much pain on the very people who have elected them.
Palestinians have been killed by Israel military not by Hamas.
For example, person A hits person B. Person B is hitting person A back and Person A's family, friends and several bystanders get their share of retribution as well. Is person B's use of excessive force acceptable as self defense?
Albertaghost: Actually the reverse is also true. With sanctions and embargos against the people of Palestine because of the Hamas official charter (which pretty much nixes international discussions or recognition of Israel), Israel just does what it does and continues to grab land which under the current (and probably future) administrations of Palestinians they know will never be used by Palestinians.
I'd say the Palestinians have played into the hard right Israelis hand quite nicely don't you?
I'd say the Palestinians have played into the hard right Israelis hand quite nicely don't you?
I have to say it's hard to see any difference in acts of Israel before and after Hamas was elected.
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rickjc25: So, Israel commits an act of piracy and that is self defense? Israel tries to sell nuclear weapons to South Africa and that is "self-defense"? Fourteen Israelis die in the latest Gaza conflict and 1400 Palestinians die, many of them women and children. Self-defense. Access to water and electricity is cut off in Gaza--in self-defense, right? Settlements are allowed to expand and Palestinian homes and orchards are bulldozed. Self defense, again? Israel has refused to abide by many of the Treaties or Peace Accords they have signed. Don't tell me Self defense, right? Israel has violated over 60 UN Resolutions but Bush illegally invades Iraq for violating 1 UN Resolution, Let me guess, Self Defense again right? If it weren't for pro-Israel money flowing into US campaign coffers, Israel would be hung out to dry as South Africa was (and deservedly so).
I believe that Israel has the right to live peacefully but Israel has violated the Geneva Convention repeatedly and Israel is a Rogue State.
I believe that Israel has the right to live peacefully but Israel has violated the Geneva Convention repeatedly and Israel is a Rogue State.
Well posted and true.... But hey, most people don't like the truth when it disagrees with their point of view.
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jesus2011: yes they the right to defend themselves from invading armless "terrorists"
Oh my, such poorly read commentators such as yourselves....------ This thread is Archived ------
Don't laugh, "armless terrorists" are a serious threat to global peace.
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emannigol:
I have to say it's hard to see any difference in acts of Israel before and after Hamas was elected.
I have to say it's hard to see any difference in acts of Israel before and after Hamas was elected.
That's right, no difference at all.
But notice the great difference in the behavior of the international community.
Under the PLO many nations supported the Palestinian cause.
But after Israel created Hamas and put them into power, it allowed the press to reinvented the war as an attempt by Islam to conquer the world.
And all international support for Palestine disappeared.
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john12196341: i belive that israel has the right to defend itself and for th ose to bash them verbally are either to bias against them and belive that they don't have the right to exist or do not have the whole truth
You are correct here in what you say!!
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emannigol: Both organisations have terrorist backrounds and have formed democratically elected governments. Both have fought against oppression and discrimination. Comparable in many aspects.
Hamas is at present a terrorist organization. That you believe they are something honorable in the past, present or future is mistaken.
emannigol:
Palestinians have been killed by Israel military not by Hamas.
Palestinians have been killed by Israel military not by Hamas.
Deliberately provoking an act by Israel that will put your own people in danger is wrong no matter how you look at it. As stated by the Hamas leadership they do and will use their own people as human shields. That is wrong. A government is supposed to protect their tax base, not place them in more dnager.
emannigol: For example, person A hits person B. Person B is hitting person A back and Person A's family, friends and several bystanders get their share of retribution as well. Is person B's use of excessive force acceptable as self defense?
The intitial action is the first wrong and therefore, has to be dealt to stop it. Person B's concern is with the safety of his people with the safety of person A's of secondary concern. Of course, some take sides and place the safety of person A and his people as little or no consequesnce and carp obn about poor B and his terrorist government who are sworn to destroy, not protest, not try to find a way to live with, not try to negoiate but destroy person A and his people.
emannigol:
I have to say it's hard to see any difference in acts of Israel before and after Hamas was elected.
I have to say it's hard to see any difference in acts of Israel before and after Hamas was elected.
So the IDF used to conduct operations like Cast Lead into Gaza on a regular basis? The world sanctions against Hamas and the Israeli blockade were all part and parcel? Didn't know that.
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Conrad73: Still wonder what happened to Jesus,our OP?
Another Paid One?
Another Paid One?
Maybe he is on the next Aid ship heading to Gaza? If so busy right now rigging the ship with bobby traps and setting the scuttling charges.
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This place is full of mindless drones that dont want to debate dont want to give an inch even when proven wrong they either dont reply or lie.
I think im wasting my time!
Surely if the truth comes out you can accept it?....
Not on here......
I think im wasting my time!
Surely if the truth comes out you can accept it?....
Not on here......
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Wheres all the mindless drones gone?
"I want to be a lefty objector"....
I dont care what the cause is as long as I can object.....
"I want to be a lefty objector"....
I dont care what the cause is as long as I can object.....
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ttom500: Maybe he is on the next Aid ship heading to Gaza? If so busy right now rigging the ship with bobby traps and setting the scuttling charges.
Probably just another Friend Of Trees! They have a way coming out in Bunches like Grapes!
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Albertaghost: Hamas is at present a terrorist organization. That you believe they are something honorable in the past, present or future is mistaken.
You are mistaken in thinking that I believe so. Terrorism isn't honorable. Neither is oppressing and killing civilians.
Albertaghost: Deliberately provoking an act by Israel that will put your own people in danger is wrong no matter how you look at it. As stated by the Hamas leadership they do and will use their own people as human shields. That is wrong. A government is supposed to protect their tax base, not place them in more dnager.
That is true. I haven't said it wouldn't be.
Albertaghost: The intitial action is the first wrong and therefore, has to be dealt to stop it. Person B's concern is with the safety of his people with the safety of person A's of secondary concern. Of course, some take sides and place the safety of person A and his people as little or no consequesnce and carp obn about poor B and his terrorist government who are sworn to destroy, not protest, not try to find a way to live with, not try to negoiate but destroy person A and his people.
That's the main problem. Taking sides where Palestinian civilians are concidered as terrorists' people and expendable when compared to jews. That collateral damage would be necessity when fighting greater evil. They are all civilians and shouldn't be divided to 'us' and 'them'.
Attacker is always responsible of collateral damage; no matter who started the conflict. Even if offencive act is done as defence.
Albertaghost: So the IDF used to conduct operations like Cast Lead into Gaza on a regular basis? The world sanctions against Hamas and the Israeli blockade were all part and parcel? Didn't know that.
And how the situation is different than it's been in past 50 years?
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Godsgift: No, they are killing people providing humanitarian aid! Any other country would be condemned for this behaviour. It's hardly surprising there is unrest in Muslim countries when a blind eye is constantly turned to Israeli behaviour including the bombing of the USS Liberty in the past. It seems the US puts Israel's interests above the lives of even its own service personnel.
Galloway! Now there's an item for humour!------ This thread is Archived ------
emannigol: You are mistaken in thinking that I believe so. Terrorism isn't honorable. Neither is oppressing and killing civilians.
I stand corrected, I thought your mentioning them along with the ANC meant you thought they might be something honorable. So we are in agreement that Hamas is a brutal terrorist organization with no redeemable qualities then?
emannigol:
That is true. I haven't said it wouldn't be.
That is true. I haven't said it wouldn't be.
So then, it appears you were mistaken when you said "Palestinians have been killed by Israel military not by Hamas."
emannigol:
That's the main problem. Taking sides where Palestinian civilians are concidered as terrorists' people and expendable when compared to jews. That collateral damage would be necessity when fighting greater evil. They are all civilians and shouldn't be divided to 'us' and 'them'.
That's the main problem. Taking sides where Palestinian civilians are concidered as terrorists' people and expendable when compared to jews. That collateral damage would be necessity when fighting greater evil. They are all civilians and shouldn't be divided to 'us' and 'them'.
And the same goes for having no consideration for Israelis who are at risk of being harmed by unprovoked actions designed for nothing more than to entice a reaction with which to see their own people harmed so they can carp on forever about what the evil Israelis did this time. As you said, they are all civilians and shouldn't be divided into us and them. I suppose we can start by figuring out ways to stop the terrorist organization which is the government of Palestinians in Gaza to cease terrorist actions and then, once that is done, we can wring hands about the Israeli reactions (if any) to the non existent terrorist actions of Hamas.
emannigol: Attacker is always responsible of collateral damage; no matter who started the conflict. Even if offencive act is done as defence.
When the enemy deliberately makes a city a battleground then there is going to be a lot of collateral damage. I believe that under the circumstances the Israelis have shown remarkable restraint and, for the life of me, in the short run, can't figure out any way with which to get Hamas to stop conducting terrorist attacks other than go after Hamas can you?
emannigol: And how the situation is different than it's been in past 50 years?
I thought I just answered that.
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Perhaps not for fun - but yes terrorizing..
Take a look at this website about Israeli soldiers telling their stories... Perhaps the one You responded to was not that biased??
And BTW LPresidente aka pogo1 or was it MisterMoon??
Why do You pop up with a new name so often??
When will You delete this actual profile - or do You get banned for some reasons??